A5 - Derry Dual Carraigeway

Con Logue · 08-04-2013 8:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Lots of unionists like Lord Laird want to see this stopped and see it as a threat for some reason. Lord Laird sounds like he belongs in a cave.:eek:

Lord Laird,
"I am delighted that the politically motivated motorway from the border with the Irish Republic and running through the United Kingdom to Londonderry is not to happen. The A5 highway was always seen as a threat to the unionist population in the west of the province. Proof of that is that its name for many in Republican circles is the United Ireland Highway".

I don't know of anyone who takes Laird seriously. And I've never heard of the "United Ireland Highway" but know that the A5 is a major pain in the arse if you get stuck behind slow moving traffic.

annfield1978 · 08-04-2013 9:20pm

This is very disappointing

Quickelles · 08-04-2013 11:00pm

An unusual alliance of Unionists and Environmentalists. The one thing they have in common is that both are hostile to the economic interests of the peasants in the Northwest of Ireland. :cool:

ardmacha · 08-04-2013 11:18pm

An unusual alliance of Unionists and Environmentalists. The one thing they have in common is that both are hostile to the economic interests of the peasants in the Northwest of Ireland.

If the peasants in Tyrone were given assisted passage to America or something then this would solve these people's problem.
It would also improve Armagh's chance of winning the Ulster championship.

Quickelles · 09-04-2013 12:13am

ardmacha wrote: »

If the peasants in Tyrone were given assisted passage to America or something then this would solve these people's problem.
It would also improve Armagh's chance of winning the Ulster championship.

Armagh's chances would be tiny even if Tyrone was eliminated. Cavan is the future.

Just look at the N3 Belturbet bypass!

I dont know · 09-04-2013 9:49am

Originally Posted by mayomaffia View Post
Lots of unionists like Lord Laird want to see this stopped and see it as a threat for some reason. Lord Laird sounds like he belongs in a cave.

Lord Laird,
"I am delighted that the politically motivated motorway from the border with the Irish Republic and running through the United Kingdom to Londonderry is not to happen. The A5 highway was always seen as a threat to the unionist population in the west of the province. Proof of that is that its name for many in Republican circles is the United Ireland Highway".

I've never heard it called the 'United Ireland Highway' either. I think he just made that one up. Responses like that just show the mindset of these people; anything that benefits nationalists is bad. Totally ignoring the Unionists in the west this would benefit equally.

If you have a look at the signatures on the AA5A website, you can guess that the majority of the landowners are unionists

It would also improve Armagh's chance of winning the Ulster championship.

Sure you're in the 'easy' side of the draw this year! No excuses now

JupiterKid · 09-04-2013 10:59am

Very disappointing news.

The fact that opposition to the A5 project has been at least partially motivated for sectarian reasons is very sad and does not bode well for a balanced approach to the strategic regional development of NI.

ardmacha · 09-04-2013 1:16pm

The issue here is why the roads service did not respond promptly to the earlier rulingm ones imagines they were nobbled. The section from Omagh to Ballygawley is largely unaffected by this ruling and clearance should have sought for that, with agreement to conduct a new environmental study on the remainder as required.

The fact that opposition to the A5 project has been at least partially motivated for sectarian reasons is very sad and does not bode well for a balanced approach to the strategic regional development of NI.

it is also clear that they are playing silly buggers with the Narrow Water Bridge for sectarian reasons.

spacetweek · 09-04-2013 2:00pm

Hugely disappointing. Statements from the plaintiffs about the road not being justified by traffic or the economy are nonse as the whole point of the scheme was that it was developed in response to the traffic levels and economic development needs of Northern Ireland, not the Rep. The fact that we will be able to use it as an access route from Dublin to Derry/Donegal is incidental.

I know from Northern Irish people my age that views like Lord Lairds are considered laughable nowadays and it's possible that he appeals to a middle aged conservative Unionist base in some areas but it doesn't go further than that. And nobody other than a Ra head would call it the United Ireland Highway. I fear the Lord dreamt that one up in the pub!

They should split the scheme further, reapply for permission, and go ahead with what they can.

Presume you guys have read Wesley's post about it, but if not I recommend it.

Redsoxfan · 09-04-2013 11:22pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Presume you guys have read Wesley's post about it, but if not I recommend it.

Excellent summing up of all the facts.

Solair · 14-04-2013 9:46am

JupiterKid wrote: »

Very disappointing news.

The fact that opposition to the A5 project has been at least partially motivated for sectarian reasons is very sad and does not bode well for a balanced approach to the strategic regional development of NI.

Not to mention that they could end up losing EU funding which is generally about trans-EU networks that would treat the Northwest as one integrated transport system.

I dont know · 15-04-2013 2:18pm

I give up! So disappointed with this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22150857

Danny Kennedy will not appeal ruling on A5

Regional Development Minister Danny Kennedy has said he will not appeal a judges's quashing of the decision to go ahead with a new £330m dual carriageway project.

Last week, Mr Justice Stephens granted the department a seven-day stay to lodge any appeal to his ruling on the A5.

Mr Kennedy said it was his intention to "accept the ruling".

He said he had considered the "complex legal and procedural matters".

"The judge took the view that a fuller assessment of the impact of the A5 proposals on the rivers Foyle and Finn Special Areas of Conservation should have been carried out," he added.

"I now intend to have a more comprehensive assessment conducted.

"When this is completed I will consider the matter further."

Mr Kennedy said it was important that the outcome of any new assessment was not "pre-judged" and said he could not provide further detail on timescales other than to say there would be "a substantial delay".

"My officials will seek to engage with landowners to carefully work through the next steps in relation to land issues," he said.

"I am conscious of the impact of delay to this significant roads project on our local construction industry and therefore I will engage with the executive to see how finance may be deployed this year to support local jobs.

"Given the delay, it is important that other schemes that may be in a position to be progressed ahead of the A5 are given full consideration by the executive."

Mr Kennedy said he intended to bring forward an executive paper detailing other options "such as moving forward with procurement on other possible schemes."

Last week, Mr Justice Stephens awarded legal costs to the group of farmers, landowners and supporters seeking to block work on a 50 mile stretch between Londonderry and Aughnacloy, County Tyrone.

Last month, the Alternative A5 Alliance won their judicial review challenge to the planned new route due to a breach of a habitats directive.

The scheme, the largest of its kind ever in Northern Ireland, forms part of a proposed key cross-border business route linking Dublin and the north west.

Following the verdict, lawyers for the department sought to have the court order put on hold.

They wanted time to meet a requirement to carry out an appropriate assessment required under the directive.

However, Mr Justice Stephens refused, citing the potential for a public inquiry and potential scope for legal confusion.

guttenberg · 15-04-2013 8:08pm

Mr Kennedy is neither committing for the plans to still go ahead, or be the one to mothball the entire thing. Presumably by the time the "comprehensive assessment" is carried out he'll have moved on to another position leaving someone else to admit defeat. It'll be interesting to see what other projects get fast tracked now with the available funds.

I dont know · 16-04-2013 8:29am

Exactly guttenberg! By the time the assessment is complete, he'll be gone and so will the money! As much of the money as possible will be spent east of the Bann

GoodyGumDrops · 18-04-2013 9:08pm

Get liking and sharing folks. Something needs to be done to save this road

http://www.facebook.com/ActionForTheA5?hc_location=stream

I dont know · 26-04-2013 10:57am

GoodyGumDrops wrote: »

Get liking and sharing folks. Something needs to be done to save this road

http://www.facebook.com/ActionForTheA5?hc_location=stream

Hopefully this group can keep the pressure on to make sure the finances are still available once the habitats stuff has been completed. Only 2 unionist politicians listed as being in support of the A5 which is worrying...

It mightn't make have much affect, but if you have any interest in seeing this road being built, you may aswell put your name to the petition;
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/action-for-the-a5

circadian · 03-05-2013 8:39am

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/docs/uup/uup_2011-05-05_man.pdf

The UUP manifesto states that they wish to pull the A5 scheme from 'Donegal to Dublin' in favour of funding widening the A2 to Greenisland. A village that has about 6,000 people.

Very convenient that it gets mucked up under UUP watch in that department. Shocking stuff.

veryangryman · 03-05-2013 8:55am

circadian wrote: »

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/docs/uup/uup_2011-05-05_man.pdf

The UUP manifesto states that they wish to pull the A5 scheme from 'Donegal to Dublin' in favour of funding widening the A2 to Greenisland. A village that has about 6,000 people.

Very convenient that it gets mucked up under UUP watch in that department. Shocking stuff.

While they are clearly biased, 6000 makes it a town, not a village. Also its within a commuter belt to Derry so makes at least a small bit of sense.

circadian · 03-05-2013 9:31am

Are you trying to say people commute from Greenisland to Derry? A 70 mile commuter belt?!

Dualling that road wouldn't cost that much, so I can't see why it's budgeted appropriately without needing to take from the A5 budget. The A5 upgrade would provide a better service between Derry, Strabane, Omagh and all the other settlements in that area. Not to mention the benefit of getting to Dublin quicker(cargo, post, airport links etc).

Derry to Omagh is a commuter belt.
Greenisland to Derry is not.

I dont know · 03-05-2013 9:34am

Do you mean its within a commuter belt to Belfast, not Derry?
Sammy Wilson seems to be backing the A6 upgrade. Unionists will be happier with this as it doesn't benefit the South. SDLP in Derry have agrred with this, but have since backtracked a little, saying the A5 still also needs to go ahead

spacetweek · 03-05-2013 11:09am

veryangryman means Belfast commuter belt not Derry.
Since that UUP doc was written Greenisland has started construction but since its cost is only £57M that is a small fraction of the A5's cost so it's strange to talk of building the A2 *instead of* the A5.
Info on Wesley's site.
Sounds like the UUP didn't fact check any of this - their doc is pretty shoddy in general (e.g. on p.19 it says "Game-Changing cross-cutting strategy" instead of "cost-cutting".)

I dont know · 30-07-2013 3:43pm

No word of any progress on this yet although local politicians/campaigners have met with the Taoiseach again to be reassured that the £50m is still available...

Taken from the Action for the A5 Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/ActionForTheA5);

THE Irish Government remains committed to the A5 Western Transport Corridor Project (as reported in today's Tyrone Herald)...

This was the message coming out of a meeting between Taoiseach Enda Kenny and a crossborder delegation of politicians, including Tyrone MLAs Declan McAleer and Joe Byrne on Thursday.

An Omagh District Council spokesperson, who accompanied the group to Dublin, said, “The Taoiseach reassured the delegation that he was most anxious to see the project get under way. He also provided reassurance that the commitment to contributions of £25m in 2015 and in 2016 remains unchanged.”

Sinn Féin MLA Declan McAleer said the Irish premier “pledged his continued support for the project stating that it remains a priority for his Government.”
Mr McAleer added, “The area that the A5 will cover has over 500,000 people who do not have a first class link either by road, air or rail to Dublin, the capital city of Ireland and we also have subsidiary road projects such as the N14 and N15 connections into Donegal and Letterkenny that can’t proceed without the A5.
“The A5 will open the entire North West region up for economic development and must be top of any road development projects on the island,” he explained.
“I am delighted that the Taoiseach and Minister of Transport Leo Varadkar have now reiterated the same com- mitment to the A5 as given recently by Martin McGuinness and Peter Robin- son from the Assembly Executive.”

MLA Joe Byrne of the SDLP was also in an upbeat mood after the meeting. He said, “It is most positive that Taoiseach Enda Kenny has met the delegation and thus has recognised the pivotal importance of the A5 project.
“It should be noted that the project itself has island-wide significance as it connects the North-West to the rest of Ireland.
“It is clear from the discussions that the Taoiseach and all of the delegates retain a strong resolute commitment to the deliverance of the A5 road. It is of utmost importance that money ear- marked for the project must not all be siphoned off for other capital projects across the north; the primary concern

nordydan · 04-11-2013 5:07pm

Quick update on this (links from Wes Johnston's website).

It was thought that the postponement of this scheme would allow the A6 Dualling - Randalstown (M22) to Castledawson scheme to be progressed.

Instead however the A26 dualling - Glarryford to A44 Drones Road scheme has been advanced instead.

Time will tell again if there is a political influence on this scheme as it was advanced by the DUP Finance Minister and UUP Roads Minister over a more needed A6 scheme.

Whilst the words of both ministers would indicate that both the A5 & A6 schemes are still under consideration, the real facts are that both have not been advanced in favour of a less trafficked scheme through a Unionist area where the existing road is of much higher quality.

L1011 · 04-11-2013 5:08pm

That A26 dualling isn't really of any priority at all when non-politicized. Ridiculous.

I dont know · 04-11-2013 5:27pm

frustrating but sadly not surprising

ardmacha · 04-11-2013 7:41pm

That A26 dualling isn't really of any priority at all when non-politicized.

leaving aside politics, is it any more important than (say) the A3 from Armagh to Portadown.

L1011 · 04-11-2013 8:04pm

It's acceptable quality s2 as it is, definite porkbarrel job

nordydan · 04-11-2013 10:36pm

MYOB wrote: »

It's acceptable quality s2 as it is, definite porkbarrel job

You can see the quality from Google Streetview, good quality S2 all the way north of Ballymena.

The A6 Toome to Randalstown section is very poor, comparable with the poorer sections of the N20.

spacetweek · 05-11-2013 2:40pm

Drove the whole A5 over the weekend in very poor, stormy weather at night.
Thought the alignment was generally good, but it needs a lot of work on adding missing catseyes/streetlighting/hard shoulders and removal of frontage access.
Generally hugely underspecced for the level of traffic it carries.

I dont know · 16-10-2014 8:43am

Update from Wesley Johnston...
15 Oct 2014: The DRD has now published the last of the four reports into the impacts of the scheme on environmentally sensitive sites. This one is on the Tully Bog Special Area of Conservation. It is now go out to public consultation for six weeks, until 28 November (I believe). The previous three were published in April and their consultation period is now over.
The report concludes that the A5 scheme will have no impact on Tully Bog (unless the design changes between now and construction). This is the final report that was needed to meet the requirements of the court ruling 19 months ago which hinged on the lack of these reports. Once this public consultation is over the DRD can then move towards publishing a revised Environmental Statement and then a probably new public inquiry, which could be held by the summer of 2015. The Tully Bog report does contain a very interesting thing on page 6, namely a timetable for construction of the whole A5. Back in February 2012, in the face of funding cuts, the DRD decided to proceed with two chunks (Derry to north of Strabane, and south of Omagh to Ballygawley) first, with the intermediate section later. The stretch south of Ballygawley was put on the long finger by the Inquiry inspector. Well, the Tully Bog report I downloaded from the A5WTC site gives this timescale:
construction between junctions 1-3 (New Buildings – Strabane North) and junctions 13- 15 (Omagh South – A4,Ballygawley) between 2017 and 2019;
construction between junctions 3-13 (Strabane North – Omagh South) between 2021 and 2023; and
construction between junction 15 (A4,Ballygawley) and the A5 south of Aughnacloy between 2026 and 2028.
This is very interesting. I am not sure how "official" this information is, or if it's just speculation, but it does imply that the DRD think the provision of the whole road is at least a decade in the future.
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/a5omaghstrabane.html#updates

Deedsie · 16-10-2014 8:55am

It would be great if it happens eventually. Shocking road to Derry/Donegal at the moment.

Deedsie · 06-05-2015 12:24pm

Very little mention of the A5 in the run up to the election North of the border.

Geogregor · 06-05-2015 9:32pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Very little mention of the A5 in the run up to the election North of the border.

Sadly in the whole UK nobody seems give a damn about infrastructure. It is one of the non-subjects during this election.

Which is puzzling as the long term investment in all sorts of infrastructure is key for future growth of GDP and productivity.

Schadenfreudia · 13-05-2015 11:49pm

Geogregor wrote: »

Sadly in the whole UK nobody seems give a damn about infrastructure. It is one of the non-subjects during this election.

Which is puzzling as the long term investment in all sorts of infrastructure is key for future growth of GDP and productivity.

Given the nature of the new Tory Government (5 year plan; reduce State proportion of the economy from 40% to 35%) it seems unlikely that any projects of scale that aren't privately financed will go ahead.

Assume any NI roads project not contracted is now dead.

spacetweek · 14-05-2015 11:01am

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Given the nature of the new Tory Government (5 year plan; reduce State proportion of the economy from 40% to 35%) it seems unlikely that any projects of scale that aren't privately financed will go ahead.

Assume any NI roads project not contracted is now dead.

Let's wait for a transport announcement before leaping across a vast chasm to that conclusion.

L1011 · 14-05-2015 12:35pm

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Given the nature of the new Tory Government (5 year plan; reduce State proportion of the economy from 40% to 35%) it seems unlikely that any projects of scale that aren't privately financed will go ahead.

Assume any NI roads project not contracted is now dead.

Majority of 12, lose a few by-elections and they're going to need the DUP or UUP on a vote. A5 isn't flavour of the month with them but there will be some horsetrading going on none the less.

loyatemu · 14-05-2015 2:06pm

L1011 wrote: »

Majority of 12, lose a few by-elections and they're going to need the DUP or UUP on a vote. A5 isn't flavour of the month with them but there will be some horsetrading going on none the less.

Only 5 govt seats went to by-election in the last parliament, and they won 2 of them back. Tory party is not as elderly/unhealthy as it was in the 90s (when quite a few of Major's MPs died) and with the economy improving and Labour in disarray they could just as likely increase their majority via by-elections. I'd be surprised if they don't make it to 2020, and I'd also be surprised if they don't win again then.

L1011 · 14-05-2015 2:11pm

loyatemu wrote: »

Only 5 govt seats went to by-election in the last parliament, and they won 2 of them back. Tory party is not as elderly/unhealthy as it was in the 90s (when quite a few of Major's MPs died) and with the economy improving and Labour in disarray they could just as likely increase their majority via by-elections. I'd be surprised if they don't make it to 2020, and I'd also be surprised if they don't win again then.

Whip system is rather less effective than it is here, though. He's going to lose a few votes even with a *UP backstop I'd imagine. Fixed-term rules mean that they probably will make 2020 even if they lost a minibus of MPs in one day but it could be awkward along the way.

Schadenfreudia · 14-05-2015 2:13pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Let's wait for a transport announcement before leaping across a vast chasm to that conclusion.

To reach that conclusion one must merely step across a crack in the pavement, no leaping required.

doopa · 28-07-2015 9:06pm

Featured on slugger this week:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/07/27/the-west-wants-in-why-are-roads-so-poor-west-of-the-bann/

Ren2k7 · 28-07-2015 9:18pm

doopa wrote: »

Featured on slugger this week:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/07/27/the-west-wants-in-why-are-roads-so-poor-west-of-the-bann/

And as usual for Slabber the comments are so typically moronic with PUL commentators claiming the reason why there's no motorways in the West is because of greater population in the East. But the A5 project wasn't advanced just to bring high capacity roads to Tyrone and Derry, it was proposed to provide connectivity between Dublin (the economic heartland of all Ireland) and Derry/North-West region (a region of quarter of a million people).

The reason why there are motorways in Tipp, Westmeath, Carlow and Offaly (amongst others) isn't for the benefit of those counties specifically but rather because they lie on key routes linking Ireland's cities and major population centres. And it's this reason why Unionists fought so hard to prevent the A5 from going ahead, to prevent "Protestant farms being cut up to benefit Dublin", to use the words of one notorious British ultra nationalist bigot!

Deedsie · 21-09-2015 9:25pm

Just saw on the 21:00 news on RTÉ, Charlie Flanagan mentioned the possibility of the Irish government contributing to paying for the Monaghan to Derry road. Could be back on the cards in an effort from the Irish government to help resolve the current impasse North of the border.

Leonard Hofstadter · 21-09-2015 9:56pm

Well the long awaited Capital Programme is due to be announced on Wednesday, so perhaps there will be some movement then? As well as trying to resolve the problems in the North, improved road access for Donegal would be useful in shoring up the Government's vote there, as FG/Lab would be lucky to get even 1 out of the 5 TDs that county will elect the next time around (now that Dinny McGinley is retiring and Joe McHugh is based all the way up in Inishowen).

Deedsie · 21-09-2015 10:38pm

captainspeed wrote: »

Well the long awaited Capital Programme is due to be announced on Wednesday, so perhaps there will be some movement then? As well as trying to resolve the problems in the North, improved road access for Donegal would be useful in shoring up the Government's vote there, as FG/Lab would be lucky to get even 1 out of the 5 TDs that county will elect the next time around (now that Dinny McGinley is retiring and Joe McHugh is based all the way up in Inishowen).

Ya that is a fair point... It badly needs to be done but if the government is in a position to spend a small amount of money. At least a section of the M20 and M7 widening surely have to be prioritised. Especially after downgrading Cork city, something will have to be done in the Southwest or FG/Lab won't receive much support there either.

Leonard Hofstadter · 21-09-2015 11:02pm

Hopefully they'll do something about Cork. It's actually surprising how little infrastructure is mentioned in Cork considering how woeful the road connections are to anywhere other than Dublin. Even the Airport isn't much of an issue (it was supposed to be made debt free and freed from the shackles of the DAA like Shannon was) either. Other than on this forum, you don't hear Cork people talking about these kind of things at all, which is ironic given that the perception outside of Cork would be that we have classic second city syndrome and have a chip on our shoulder towards Dublin (or just anything that's not in or from Cork).

Schadenfreudia · 26-09-2015 8:52am

captainspeed wrote: »

Hopefully they'll do something about Cork. It's actually surprising how little infrastructure is mentioned in Cork considering how woeful the road connections are to anywhere other than Dublin.

The lack of interest in infrastructure isn't limited to Cork - if the road system in Dublin wasn't pushed from above to stop the city from strangling I doubt there would have been any political pressure from the ground up to build it.

The almost complete disinterest by the natives in the abandonment of Dart Underground merely shows that the politicians have got it right when assessing the "thinking" of Sean Citizen.

Unfortunately for Sean in the medium and long term....

marmurr1916 · 17-11-2015 7:45pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Just saw on the 21:00 news on RTÉ, Charlie Flanagan mentioned the possibility of the Irish government contributing to paying for the Monaghan to Derry road. Could be back on the cards in an effort from the Irish government to help resolve the current impasse North of the border.

And we're back....

The agreement also includes a recommitment by the Government to provide funding for the A5, the road connecting Dublin to the northwest and Derry.

The previous Irish government had committed €400 million to the project, but this was withdrawn during the economic downturn.

“This is not only important for economic development in Northern Ireland but also for building an all-island economy that creates jobs and prosperity for all our citizens,” said Mr Flanagan.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/deal-reached-in-stormont-talks-on-northern-ireland-1.2433198

Deedsie · 17-11-2015 8:53pm

marmurr1916 wrote: »

And we're back....

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/deal-reached-in-stormont-talks-on-northern-ireland-1.2433198

Interesting... The M20 is more worthy of funding, however the A5 road does provide a strategic infrastructure improvement while also aiding to improve the political situation between the communities in Northern Ireland while also improving relations between the Northern Ireland assembly and the Irish government.

Going to be great for Donegal too if it does eventually get built. €107M from the Irish government.

spacetweek · 18-11-2015 12:01am

Rename the thread!

Deedsie wrote: »

€107M from the Irish government.

Where did you get €107M from?

Deedsie · 18-11-2015 12:02am

spacetweek wrote: »

Rename the thread!

Where did you get €107M from?

http://www.thejournal.ie/northern-ireland-deal-2450681-Nov2015/

A5 - Derry Dual Carraigeway

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