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Adam's Rib: The weaker sex?

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    #122
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »
    I guess we'll just have to disagree. The moon's cycle around the earth is as valid a way of measuring time as the earth's rotation around the sun. One year does follow the next, and this day will be repeated again next year when the sun hits the same position in the sky.

    The thing is for thousands of years people didnt' know the sun revovled around the sun but we did watch the moon wax and wane and so marked time and seasons and festivals by it.


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    #123
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Normally the one who epitomises everything about aplha male in a loud and brash kind of way is the most insecure in their own skin.

    I could care less about tussling for social dominance. I have predominantly male friends but I've noticed that girls seem to have a tusssle for queen bee but it's carried out in an entirely different way. It's normally done through condescending compliments etc.=

    A lot more underhanded, it's a horrible game which I why I choose not to play it.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    I have no problem getting on with women but I do find at times that I don't like the changes inmyself that come about when I have a woman in my life. I end up with someone to worry about etc. It's funny because my GF is far more independent like that meaning that in that sense I'd be the weaker of the two. I find that at times with women I feel like there's a struggle for me to not become too much of a pushover while maintaining my want to see her happy. I find balancing that at times to be difficult. It's funny because by nature I'm assertive and if I have a problem i'll say it but I'm easy going and only tend to have a problem when it's a big deal which I often feel can be misconstrued as me being somewhat of a soft touch. i'm aware of that, hence the struggle to not be "whipped".

    That is a tough one. It can be far to easy to get caught up in the role of making them happy or being the carer and you end up loosing yourself.
    This happens to both genders.


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    #124
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    That is a tough one. It can be far to easy to get caught up in the role of making them happy or being the carer and you end up loosing yourself.
    This happens to both genders.
    QFT

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #125
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    helping.png

    The things is how many people find themselves defaulting into what was the 'norm' in thier parents relationships when they are in a relationship themselves.
    It is usually stuff they do not realsie and then resent when thier partner does not meet these unvoiced and subconcious expectations and sometimes they are not just based on thier parents but the ideas and roles they want and wish for.

    Disnesy princesss and prince charming syndrome how are you.

    Some they my prince will come and fix everything, so why aren't things fixed ?
    I'm the man I am ment to be able to fix things but what is there to fix and if she doesn't tell me how can I fix them and then she gives out when I do....

    There is no happily ever after there is only the next day.


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    #126
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Some they my prince will come and fix everything, so why aren't things fixed ?
    I'm the man I am ment to be able to fix things but what is there to fix and if she doesn't tell me how can I fix them and then she gives out when I do....

    Some people feel they have to live up to something. I personally just want to be able to pick her up when she's down and be somebody she can talk to if she needs it. I also want to share fun experiences and explore sexuality with her. After that she's on her own. If there's anything I can do then great but there's not much more I can do to make her happy. That doesn't stop me personally from concerning myself about it do ya know what i mean!?
    Thaedydal wrote: »
    There is no happily ever after there is only the next day.

    Very interesting mantra that. It's very true. Media outlets and cultural expectations have placed a set of highly unrealistic expectations on people when it comes to relationships. People get into thinking so so far ahead on these things which puts unnecessary pressures on a relationship.


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    #127
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    We should not expect or want to be someone's happinness.
    We can add to it and share it but we cant' be thier happiness the only ray of sunshine in thier life or they that for us.
    IF that is the case them someones life is far to dysfunctional and they would be better of putting their time
    into sorting it and themselves out rather then trying to be in a relationship.

    Another myth is the 'other half' that with out someone we are not whole, or functioning.

    and bringing all this back to adam and eve; roles and responsibility it would be nice to think that the days where the man had all the worry of the money and bills and the little mrs of the cooking that was not equal and not sharing in the joys and responsibilities of living a life together.

    Such shifts in genderised roles is fairly new, my Granny had to have a sit down and a dram of whiskey when she saw my Dad changing my cloth nappy as an infant, she had never seen a Man or a Father do that, never thought of it. So men need to find away to be care givers and change nappies and cook with out being emasculated and women need to find away to step into more male roles if needs be with out having to become emasculated. It's a tricky one with a lot of young people floundering around with certain types of backlashes going on.


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    #128
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    We should not expect or want to be someone's happinness.

    Damn straight. There is no point in looking for someone else to complete you. The point of life is that you get a chance to set your own values and hopefully, over the long run, you do the things and say the things and feel the things that can hand in hand with them.

    In my opinion one of the those values should NOT be an abstract completion by having someone else in your life.

    For me, the best relationships i have seen were the ones where the two people had enough middle ground to be compatible but enough differences to be interesting.

    I think perhaps in the past i fell into that trap, feeling like being with this or that girl based off their attributes would somehow make me the person i wanted to be.

    Now i realise the person i want to be is a phantom, i will only ever be who i am and everything from simple day to day interactions with people to massive life changing events will always change the shape and makeup of that phantom , target me.

    A girlfriend or boyfriend should be, in my opinion, two people who compliment each other, who work well together. If either of them is looking for completion then it will invariably be too much for the other person to handle.

    There is only one person you can look to for your happiness and thats yourself.


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    #129
    A Primal Nut
    Registered Users Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    The only reason men have had dominance over women is because they can - they are physically stronger so they always had the final say. This got passed down the generations - now we are all trying to be more altruistic so thankfully women have been given the chance to be equal - however, its still men who decide on how equal they allow women to be - because of the physical dominance that will always be the case. Its certainly not women's choice that they are became the submissive gender. Thankfully that has been somewhat rectified in the last century when it comes to work.

    However once the male and female roles were defined at all, people were more attracted to people who fulfilled those roles and those roles evolved and are still there in relationships. In my experience, the woman will never take the lead and expects the guy to do the approach, start the conversation, ask her out, ask her to be his partner and initiate sex - the girls role seems to be dress up and look her best - that isn't to say that's the only good thing about a woman a relationship, but in terms of effort thats about the height of it. Certainly, I know a lot more girls frustrated by guys who don't take the lead than by guys who dominate them. I also, notice, controversially, women are generally more attracted to guys more successful than they are, not that its the most important thing.

    Richard Dawkins discusses this in the Selfish Gene. Sexual exploitation began because guys could have as many children as they wanted whereas women could only have a small few and they needed to put in lot more effort to bring the child into being than the man who just donated sperm, therefore some men went for quantity and could go have sex more women, whereas a woman had to put too much effort into bringing up a child to go off with other men. So women evolved to put more effort into the few children they had than to have more. Because the women gives birth she is the one left with the baby, while the man can run off..

    Of course its not that simple - women then evolved to become attracted to guys who were in for the long haul (hence the emotional rollercoaster before sleeping with a guy) but the evolutionary trend was always towards women as carers and men as sperm-doners.


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    #130
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    Dragan wrote: »
    A girlfriend or boyfriend should be, in my opinion, two people who compliment each other, who work well together. If either of them is looking for completion then it will invariably be too much for the other person to handle.

    There is only one person you can look to for your happiness and thats yourself.
    The Missing Piece Meets the Big O.


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    #131
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd agree. It reminds me of Van Wilders quote where the 2 lads are havin a conversation:

    Van: "Why do you think those two are so happy together?"

    Other guy: "Because they're made for each other?"

    Van: "No, because they're compatible"...."write that down":pac:


    For me a relationship won't last without the follwoing:

    - attraction
    - compatability
    - communication
    - a clear understanding of what you expect from each other
    - trust and honesty


    And a relationship with the following is doomed for failure also:

    - distrust
    - dependence


    I suppose that on a long enough timeline the survival rate of every relationship should fall to zero, (oh yea!) but life is finite so with the right balances and if you're prepared to work at it then there's no reason that you can't have a happy and healthy relationship.

    The key thing is, like you said, people must seek happiness from themsleves and they are giving themselves a much better chance of survival when it comes to this.


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    #132
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I suppose that on a long enough timeline the survival rate of every relationship should fall to zero.

    Props.

    Make sure you check out "Choke", his new one.


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    #133
    Reku
    Registered Users Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Reku


    WindSock wrote: »
    You left out sexuality, what have you got against gays :P
    :eek: Eeepp!
    Nothing I swear!
    *holds hands up in an attempt to placate the mob*

    *Nominates WindSock for title of TLL's non-trollish **** stirrer*:p

    Dragan wrote: »
    I know.

    But as a concept, how we see it is purely a human interpretation of a universal issue.

    We mashed our measurements of time to be as close to what actually happens as possible, 365 days in a year, 24 hours in a day, 60 mins in an hour, 60 seconds in a minute and so on.

    But it simple doesn't match to what actually happens. Hence leap years.

    Our measurement is a close approximation at best.

    Don't forget that not every 4th year is a leap year either, centuries are only leap years if divisible by 400.:pac:


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    #134
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    The thing is for thousands of years people didnt' know the sun revovled around the sun but we did watch the moon wax and wane and so marked time and seasons and festivals by it.
    Omg thank you! That's what I should've said.
    g'em wrote: »
    The Missing Piece Meets the Big O.

    Awww that's luvly.


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    #135
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    brianthebard wrote:
    Awww that's luvly.
    It's wonderful, isn't it? Credit goes to Silverfish for introducing it to me. So simple, but so true.


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    #136
    Nuravictus
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭Nuravictus


    g'em wrote: »
    The Missing Piece Meets the Big O.


    I don't get it :(.


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    #137
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,280 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Nuravictus wrote: »
    I don't get it :(.

    Hmm, one day get it you will, young padawan. ;)


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    #138
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    brianthebard wrote: »
    I don't think the op is a creationist? :eek:
    No way can you ID me! I am too often foolish to be considered an intelligent design! For fun, try postmodern Derridian deconstructionist? That's a mouth full! Especially for one who has been sitting back and enjoying all the social constructions of reality on this thread (even those that claim to be otherwise, especially when they use language to communicate meaning, a social construction in itself?).

    I've truly been amazed at all the different ways that we can view female-male relationships. No wonder I sometimes find myself confused when relating to peers or males in day-to-day interactions. Well, perhaps that's what makes life interesting?


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    #139
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    Try postmodern Derridian deconstructionist

    So, curious then?


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    #140
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Dragan wrote: »
    So, curious then?
    Indeed, given that I still have 8 lives left. Although, this thread sometimes makes me feel like "the Other."


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    #141
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    No way can you ID me! I am too often foolish to be considered an intelligent design! For fun, try postmodern Derridian deconstructionist? That's a mouth full! Especially for one who has been sitting back and enjoying all the social constructions of reality on this thread (even those that claim to be otherwise, especially when they use language to communicate meaning, a social construction in itself?).

    I've truly been amazed at all the different ways that we can view female-male relationships. No wonder I sometimes find myself confused when relating to peers or males in day-to-day interactions. Well, perhaps that's what makes life interesting?
    Hopefully, but not too confusing right? I guess the thread has shown all the complexities that could be in play at once when a man talks to a woman? Watch out for slippage!
    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    Indeed, given that I still have 8 lives left. Although, this thread sometimes makes me feel like "the Other."

    But a Derridean and not Freudian Other right??


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