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Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

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    #122
    gbob
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭gbob


    devnull wrote: »
    As someone who has family who lived in the UK during the Thatcherite years to call this anything like them is just crazy.

    Actually I lived there during those dictatorship years, and I'd always hoped that we could have learned from their mistakes. But to see what is happening now with taxes spiralling and wages being forced down is very reminiscent of those times.


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    #123
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    There are some big differences though, as bad as both times are/were.

    Thatcher's government, which was awful for anyone but the elite, still had some kind of control over that country and had the ability to call more shots, since whilst they were in a recession at the start of her reign, it was nowhere near as deep or as hard hitting as the current on in Ireland is. The issues in that government were related to bad policy to a larger degree than outside forces or circumstances.

    This country was basically going to the wall as we could not meet our obligations so we had to request financial and international assistance. Those circumstances by their very nature mean that it's always going to be a tough time for any government and such tough policies have to be brought in to get our spending back more in line since we had failed to do it ourselves and nearly rendered the country bankrupt.

    At the end of the day the country is spending more than it is bringing in and that cannot be allowed to continue and workers who are having their salaries funded by taxpayers need to realise that they can't expect to have the same conditions of old. They asked for rises in the boom, but don't want to take cuts in a recession, that is called having your cake and eating it.


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    #124
    gbob
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭gbob


    devnull wrote: »

    At the end of the day the country is spending more than it is bringing in and that cannot be allowed to continue and workers who are having their salaries funded by taxpayers need to realise that they can't expect to have the same conditions of old. They asked for rises in the boom, but don't want to take cuts in a recession, that is called having your cake and eating it.

    Yes this recession may be worse, but it's purely as a result of bad management of the boom/bust economy, and even worse decisions to bail out the banks and bondholders. This government made promises to us that they had no intention of keeping and now they're showing that they aren't able to stand up to Merkel and co.

    Rises in the boom times for us equalled 2/3% pa. Less than inflation, so we were earning less than private company workers who could name any price for their labour.

    But these pay cuts are not affordable, this isn't about luxuries, this is about making mortgage and car repayments, kids in college and food on the table. It's about increased taxation and fuel costs. We are as broke as everybody else !


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    #125
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    gbob wrote: »
    Yes this recession may be worse, but it's purely as a result of bad management of the boom/bust economy

    Indeed and I won't disagree on that, but the fact is that Fianna Fail should have acted in 2009, but they didn't and put the party and their own self interests before the state and that is why none of my family will ever vote for them again. Sadly it seems some people in this country seem to have forgotten who it was that caused it.
    Even worse decisions to bail out the banks and bondholders. This government made promises to us that they had no intention of keeping and now they're showing that they aren't able to stand up to Merkel and co

    Bailing out the banks wasn't popular, but remember that the banks have the money that is in every persons bank accounts up and down the country. If they have 20Bn of peoples money on their accounts, but they only have 5Bn in cash for example because they recklessly lended money to people they should not have, then that 5bn is withdrawn by customers, what happens to the other customers that have 15bn between them in the bank, that they now cannot get out as the money is not there to give?
    Rises in the boom times for us equalled 2/3% pa. Less than inflation, so we were earning less than private company workers who could name any price for their labour.

    The great thing about a democratic country is that nobody forces you to work in a job that you do not like and you feel you are getting conditions you do not like. You could always leave, because after all, if the terms are so bad then it shouldn't be hard to find better ones with the private sector.

    Just out of curiosity when do you define the start and the end of the boom?
    But these pay cuts are not affordable, this isn't about luxuries, this is about making mortgage and car repayments, kids in college and food on the table. It's about increased taxation and fuel costs.

    I know plenty of people who are earning less than the wages that are being earned by staff in Bus Eireann who have to do the same and they have to pay for their own lunch etc and cutbacks have to be made, shop at cheaper shops, go down the pub a bit less and cut back on expensive holidays etc.

    Yet not so long ago a DB driver on a nitelink service I took was moaning to a colleague that if the cuts go ahead on their side he can only go on 2 foreign holidays this year rather than three. and he wouldn't be able to go to the pub twice a week.
    We are as broke as everybody else !

    Yet your terms and conditions are the ones that the majority of people in this country lost long ago, or never had so if you are on increased overtime rates, get paid meal vouchers and all sorts of other allowances that others do not get, then no, you are not the same as everyone else are you?

    Looking at the public transport sector the wages in the three state transport companies as per their audited and published accounts are higher than an other public transport company in the country.


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    #126
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Is this just bus eireann or dublin bus as well?


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    #127
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,464 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Is this just bus eireann or dublin bus as well?

    Just Bus Éireann for now, but the longer this goes on the greater the chance that it will spread throughout CIÉ.

    EDIT: Tweet from Dublin Bus -
    @dublinbusnews

    Dublin Bus does not expect that the proposed industrial action at Bus Eireann on Sunday 12 May will affect our services.

    https://twitter.com/dublinbusnews/status/333205740967841793


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    #128
    barry181091
    Registered Users Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭barry181091


    Didn't read through the whole thread (A case of TL;DR :P). Anyway, what are the chances that buses will be stopped on Monday? Need to know for commuting from Limerick to Shannon. These are the times I would love a car.


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    #129
    stop
    Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭stop


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Just Bus Éireann for now, but the longer this goes on the greater the chance that it will spread throughout CIÉ.

    EDIT: Tweet from Dublin Bus -



    https://twitter.com/dublinbusnews/status/333205740967841793

    Do Dublin Bus not share facilities at Broadstone?


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    #130
    gbob
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭gbob


    devnull wrote: »
    Indeed and I won't disagree on that, but the fact is that Fianna Fail should have acted in 2009, but they didn't and put the party and their own self interests before the state and that is why none of my family will ever vote for them again. Sadly it seems some people in this country seem to have forgotten who it was that caused it.



    Bailing out the banks wasn't popular, but remember that the banks have the money that is in every persons bank accounts up and down the country. If they have 20Bn of peoples money on their accounts, but they only have 5Bn in cash for example because they recklessly lended money to people they should not have, then that 5bn is withdrawn by customers, what happens to the other customers that have 15bn between them in the bank, that they now cannot get out as the money is not there to give?



    The great thing about a democratic country is that nobody forces you to work in a job that you do not like and you feel you are getting conditions you do not like. You could always leave, because after all, if the terms are so bad then it shouldn't be hard to find better ones with the private sector.

    Just out of curiosity when do you define the start and the end of the boom?



    I know plenty of people who are earning less than the wages that are being earned by staff in Bus Eireann who have to do the same and they have to pay for their own lunch etc and cutbacks have to be made, shop at cheaper shops, go down the pub a bit less and cut back on expensive holidays etc.

    Yet not so long ago a DB driver on a nitelink service I took was moaning to a colleague that if the cuts go ahead on their side he can only go on 2 foreign holidays this year rather than three. and he wouldn't be able to go to the pub twice a week.



    Yet your terms and conditions are the ones that the majority of people in this country lost long ago, or never had so if you are on increased overtime rates, get paid meal vouchers and all sorts of other allowances that others do not get, then no, you are not the same as everyone else are you?

    Looking at the public transport sector the wages in the three state transport companies as per their audited and published accounts are higher than an other public transport company in the country.

    DB work under domestic driving regulations and are therefore able to work far more overtime than BE drivers, and do earn considerably more.

    I personally dont work Sundays or do unscheduled overtime because my rostered shift is far more unsociable than I'd like and I prefer to spend as much time as I can with my family. As for the pub, my average is four times a year, and my only holiday was a Christmas present from my son. As I said, I'm not trying to protect luxuries.

    I will concede that a paid meal allowance was a foreign concept to me, and wouldn't object to loosing it.


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    #131
    gbob
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭gbob


    stop wrote: »
    Do Dublin Bus not share facilities at Broadstone?

    Yes, and at other locations they share facilities with IE.. there has been strong rumours that picket lines at these locations will not be crossed.


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    #132
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Ok, open declaration time. I am the daughter of a man who worked for one of the semi state transport companies all of his working life. I have the greatest respect for the people like him, who worked shift work, on weekends, bank holidays, often outdoors in all kinds of weather and hazardous situations. I think that people who work largely 9-5 office jobs don't realize the stresses that having a job like than have have on an individual and families involved. They earn their money. Every single penny of it.

    That being said, I honestly think that some of the people on here live on a different planet to me. Sunday pay, meal allowances, getting pissed off at being asked to work a 39 hour week. On what planet can people possibly be living on, if they think that it ok to go on strike to protect things that folks like me, who are on a salaried job in the private sector, or who are self employed, would never in a million years get to enjoy? And oh yeah, they want me to fund it too. WTF? In this day and age, how is that ok or fair?

    In over 20 years in the work force, I have never had an employer pay for the food that I consume during the course of a working day. Never. Not once. I am lucky if I only have to work 45 hrs a week. Normally it's closer to 50. If I ever work a 36 hours week, is because I took a day off, or I was sick. Don't even get me started on what what reaction my boss would give me if I told him I wanted additional pay to work on weekends. Seriously folks, it feels like I am speaking a different language to what others here are speaking when it comes to working condition that we feel that we are "entitled" to.

    I fully agree with you on all of the above.

    So much money continues to be wasted in the public sector. We have cut the small fee that special needs carers get, and yet pubic money is used to subsidize a small sectors food allowance (something that they can well afford themselves considering their pay). This is as bad as the money wasted paying back the bond holders.

    There's a sector of people (both public and private) where the term 'entitlement' has become their catch phrase.
    There are people in this country that are unable to take care of themselves either through illness or circumstance. In the Ireland I want to live in, these are the people that are entitled to assistance and my tax money.

    Unfortunately there are people who don't appreciate what they have and want regular 'Joe Public' to fund their pay/income/allowance even if they are too lazy/non-motivated/big-headed/self-centered to make the effort for themselves.

    The problems of the country start at the top. Our political leaders don't lead by example. They have huge wages, large allowances, massive pensions, and all this for a few years work in a lot of cases. When workers (both state and private) see the greed and how money is wasted at the top, is it any wonder that even in our worse crisis we can't make the required changes.


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    #133
    [Steve]
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭[Steve]


    The timing for this strike isn't the best at all. Many students, including myself have exams from Monday next week. Hopefully this is a one day thing.

    I only really care if Route 360 is affecting by the strike. Also, will JJ Kavanagh be picking up people from Bus Eireann routes if the strike continues into monday? If so, hows the ticket price going to work out, I don't want to be ripped off because of a strike.


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    #134
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    [Steve] wrote: »
    The timing for this strike isn't the best at all. Many students, including myself have exams from Monday next week. Hopefully this is a one day thing.

    I only really care if Route 360 is affecting by the strike. Also, will JJ Kavanagh be picking up people from Bus Eireann routes if the strike continues into monday? If so, hows the ticket price going to work out, I don't want to be ripped off because of a strike.

    JJ Kavanaghs like all other licensed operators can put on auxiliary services on their own routes or apply for temporary licences for other routes?, was done for the ash cloud and malahide viaduct disruptions.

    Ticket wise I'd say they'd charge their normal prices.


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    #135
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,719 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    BenShermin wrote: »
    How will this effect GoBÉ services?

    They're a totally different company, so not part of the dispute.

    But they have been using BÉ's stations. So GoBus tweeted an hour ago that all
    • Cork to Dublin services will now depart from Merchants Quay (in Cork), and
    • Dublin to Cork services will depart from Goerges Quay (in Dublin)


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    #136
    RubyXI
    Registered Users Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭RubyXI


    Does the strike include cork city buses?


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    #137
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #138
    joegriffinjnr
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭joegriffinjnr


    How about cross border services that are jointly operated with Ulsterbus? Will Ulsterbus still operate their services?


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    #139
    Shane.C
    Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭Shane.C


    Galway services all to a standstill also? Galway to Sligo route in particular?


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    #140
    Trampas
    Registered Users Posts: 7,429 ✭✭✭Trampas


    List of routes disrupted

    http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1296&month=May


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    #141
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Maybe another thread should be started for people to ask for advice of how to get from A to B and what is effected since I guess there are going to be a lot of requests for this kind of thing as people are going to be stuck.

    I see Joe Higgins has had his say, seems more concerned with getting the strike to run for as long as possible rather than to get some settlement for the staff, that kind of attitude really angers me, it's worse than both sides in the dispute.
    There are clear signs the company wants to cut across the effectiveness of the action by using private coach firms to scab,

    An urgent practical discussion is needed involving the Bus Eireann workers on the ground with support from the wider trade union movement and sympathetic working people who oppose austerity about what kind of protest action is needed to disrupt strike breaking efforts.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/bus-eireann-workers-prepare-for-strike-action-594111.html


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    #142
    Patser
    Registered Users Posts: 7,933 ✭✭✭Patser


    Yep, it's one of the big things worrying me - can't speak for other drivers but I'd say a fair few feel the same - that this strike is now well beyond a simple industrial dispute and is now a political football, way out of our control. I've said before that us drivers are well aware we'll have to take a hit, we just wanted it spread out more fairly, hitting everyone more evenly and that's why we wanted negotiation. Now however we're the test case for Croke Park 2, an example to be made of, the start of resistance to austerity, the troika - take your pick of political buzz words here - depending on what commentator or interest group you hear. I can tell you now in the week building up to this no-one in tge depots was talking about austerity, IMF or the likes.

    Not happy about suddenly being poster boys for the resistance, I/we're not pretty enough, we're just looking for a fairer spread of the pain.


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    #143
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭howiya


    Patser wrote: »
    Not happy about suddenly being poster boys for the resistance, I/we're not pretty enough, we're just looking for a fairer spread of the pain.

    Can I ask where you think this pain should be spread and who should be included?


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    #144
    kildarecommuter
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭kildarecommuter


    howiya wrote: »
    Can I ask where you think this pain should be spread and who should be included?

    Not connected with Bus Eireann but I would imagine senior management and why do the 3 CIE group company's all need their own PR team surely they could share !


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    #145
    Patser
    Registered Users Posts: 7,933 ✭✭✭Patser


    howiya wrote: »
    Can I ask where you think this pain should be spread and who should be included?

    IMO - and I stress this is my opinion alone - cuts should be made to core wages across the board to variable degrees. The current proposed cuts to allowances affect only drivers' and mechanics wages and to different levels.

    Using myself as an example, on my roster I don't work Sundays, don't work expressway services, have very few shift allowances - so the cuts don't actually hit me that much - overtime is the main hit. In comparison drivers that work Sundays (majority), work shifts, are covering outbased depots will be down an awful lot more. And again in contrast Management take home pay is unaffected. Not exactly fair. So IMO cut everyone's basic to some degree so we're all down a similar amount.

    Also implement a root and branch review of services and schedules. There is still a huge amount of over-scheduling on some routes, duplication on others (2 buses same time) and drivers being rostered as spare - ie hang around to cover 'just in case' scenarios.


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    #146
    Leverarchfile
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 39 ✭Leverarchfile


    godtabh wrote: »
    Sack them all. Fold BE. Tender a private operator to replace them ala the RPA/Luas and interview new drivers/drivers who will accept a sustainable wage and conditions.

    And what happens to them when they realise they are being shafted, and they decide to stand up for their employment rights ?


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    #147
    Leverarchfile
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 39 ✭Leverarchfile


    Trampas wrote: »
    List of routes disrupted

    http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1296&month=May

    For some reason Co. Donegal seems to be the only place drivers are not going on strike yet. Maybe the news has not reached them up there.


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    #148
    Patser
    Registered Users Posts: 7,933 ✭✭✭Patser


    Leverarchfile wrote: »
    For some reason Co. Donegal seems to be the only place drivers are not going on strike yet. Maybe the news has not reached them up there.

    I'd assume it's more that McGinley's who share some services with BE up there are working. Their owner was on the news yesterday saying they'd a few extra buses available to help cover a few extra services than normal.


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    #149
    seekers
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭seekers


    Not in favour of the RPA solution. The country spending millions on a project and handing it all over to private international company to do with it as they wish


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    #150
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    seekers wrote: »
    Not in favour of the RPA solution. The country spending millions on a project and handing it all over to private international company to do with it as they wish

    and ending up with the best run public transport system in the country and profitable too !!


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    #151
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Patser wrote: »
    I'd assume it's more that McGinley's who share some services with BE up there are working.

    It would be interesting to compare pay and conditions.


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