New Luas lines or extensions after BXD

Victor wrote: »

SSG to Lansdowne Road DART.

Interesting idea. Has such a route ever been studied or proposed? The wide Georgian streets definitely lend themselves to tramways.

Banjoxed wrote: »

The original DART proposals, before they got enviscerated by the Doheny and Nesbitt School of Economics, incorporated an underground line from Broadstone to Temple Bar, connecting with the Tallaght line coming in underground from Heuston and then to the Green, Merrion Square, Ballsbridge and joining the coastal line at Sandymount.

Yes I'm aware of the underground proposals from years gone by. What I found interesting was that hertofore I haven't heard any suggestion of surface tramways using the wide streets of the Georgian city. Particularly on the southside where the country's primary business district lies.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Wouldn't building a tram on Georgian streets raise all sorts of problems with basements, etc ? Running a Luas through somewhere like Merrion Square sounds like it could be a civil and structural engineering nightmare, and possibly a legal one too.

That's pretty much what they are doing with the BXD line at the moment. Filling in these basements and moving services. Dawson St etc. are Georgian.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Are they filling in basements of the buildings the Luas runs beside, like the Dawson Lounge ? Or is it only necessary to fill directly below the tracks ?

Yes they are

See page 5 - Basement Infill Contract

http://www.dcba.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Luas-BXD.pdf

MYOB wrote: »

Its only projecting basements under the tracks, generally coal cellars and similar.

so bassically ones not in use and ones unlikely to be used again even if luas didn't go ahead

I follow the discussion here regularly but rarely post.

I’ve a few observations and suggestions about possible future expansions of the Luas.

I feel Dart Underground, Metro North, and Metro West are vital investments that should be made in order to give Dublin the transport network it deserves. And the key here is network. Many here when making suggestion’s dismiss some projects or suggest point to point that suits some area’s and not others.

Luas expansion should compliment a more fully integrated network. It should not be a vanity project for well connected Ministers and Counsellors.

BRT/ Swiftway has the possibility of being too little, the wrong way, too late.

Luas Extensions post BXD need to be focused on the rail investment and density plans put forward in recent years.

Thus I suggest that on top of the Finglas extension to Meakstown/Silogue /Terminal 3 that has been partially explored. There should also be a branch over the Dunsinkin tip, and towards the National Aquatic Centre stop on Metro West, through Mulhuddart/ Tyrlestown and close to Clonee and Dunboyne for further rail development close to the Commuter/Dart line. A possible interchange could be considered in future for a further improved network.

There’s enough free land across this stretch to make it faster than the Finglas branch, and also room to run it only on the north side into Finglas, or as far as the Micro-Depot at Broombridge.



I believe the Green Line extension south to Bray is important, but the Fasroe Loop may not be, at least not until development on recent expansions are actually met.


Line F Lucan imo should also have either a more interchange friendly final stop in Lucan, for shuttle buses between Sligo and Kildare Lines, or actually split and meet both main railways.

For it’s college green terminus I feel it should be prepared for the suggested expansion to Ringsend via Pearse Street. This expansion however could go further and go to East Wall via Spencer Dock/ Samuel Beckett bridge, and take 2 further splits. One Heading along the canal as far as possible along the south bank, possibly Croke park, and the other to East Wall itself.

A Loop -link with the Red Line could also be considered, or included as part of same works. Cross city connections will already be met by the X of the Dart routes, and Metro North, but Luas capacity not be shunted to terminal stops could help capacity as Trams could run over 2 different lines in city centre.

Red Line as it currently stands is bulging at some times in the city centre. Even with Dart Underground the city will only grow, and so will demand for network connections.

Other Lines should be considered, but without removing traffic with major investments the road space does not exist in most of the city for Proper BRT services, especially on many North Inner City roads.

Express buses that imo could complement a rapid transit network are (separate from Existing DB routes or future tenders):

Headways of 5-7 mins at peak.

Blanch via Finglas to Raheny/sutton via the North Circular Road.

( Why not build a link road through the old dump and leave an eco park around it. This may leave a less dense stretch on the route ruining catchment, but added attractions and the speed/time advantage could help justify it.)

Clondalkin to SSG via Crumlin road and the “R110” through Dolphins Barn. (Meeting all major Rapid transit routes as best it can.)

cgcsb wrote: »

Surely Ashbourne is way too far out of Dublin for a light rail urban rail link??

Exactly.

Unless Fingal County council had a specific rail led development plan across the rural areas into meath, and worked with that part of Meath to link ashbourne, no such link would make sense.

It'd be better to run higher frequency buses down the M2 and N2 to Charlestown and Metro-west and Finglas Luas extensions.

That's the only way to up Ashbournes connection to Dublins wider network without crazy expense.

Yes New railroads across the land sound nice. This may even be more of an Inter-urban and light rail, than the Light Rail/tram of the Luas, but it would have very little catchment.


Commuter belt Meath is crying for strategic town planning in line with Dublin's expansion, but it will never happen.

Since rural Meath blocked the old rail alignment politically and with a sewer, and they trumpeted the M3 over the Dunboyne branch, then placed the toll before the last stop... well they, just don't want proper development.

They want every failed type of building and development that raises taxes and makes local businessmen and donners happy. God forbid their new and existing citizens can reach employment easily or spend less on petrol...

The Commuter belt should thus be consolidated around the Metro West Corridor and a green belt barrier provided on the border with Meath to remind them, "Your years of poor planning is bad for everyone, look at this well designed neighbourhood".

cgcsb wrote: »

It's not 'too far' it's too far to go outside an urban area which is why a less frequent heavy rail link would be more appropriate. The population catchment between Finglas and Ashbourne would be far to small to support frequent urban light rail. A Commuter heavy rail link would be more appropriate.

I can't think of any such system off the top of my head in Europe, nor do I see the point of such a system. Urban light rail and heavy commuter/intercity rail are two different species with entirely different aims.



I think it was but that was considered to be over designing. In the 1990's Ireland was still something of a backwater, public transport infrastructure had an air of 'new fangled whatchyamacallit' about it. An attitude broadly supported by the rag tabloids who often spouted on about how nobody would use luas. We are paying for it now, luas is exceeding it's capacity during peak hours.

which is why you never do things on the basis of what the gutter trash rags might say, won't happen