New Luas lines or extensions after BXD

devnull · 10-04-2014 6:19am

700 is every 15 mins, only every 30 mins between midnight and 4am or so.

icdg · 10-04-2014 7:23am

Victor wrote: »

There are a number of options of removing the Sligo / Longford trains from interfering with the Maynooth Line / Loop Line.

Options
* Send Sligo trains to Docklands.
* Provide a new connection to Heuston.
* Provide third track sassing loops where space is available.

Attached map
* Red - cheap option, doesn't do much other than change the terminus. It would be slightly useful for people heading to the south and west of the country.
* Blue - really expensive option, but could be tied into DART Underground. It would need lots of cut and cover.
* Black - existing railways.

Neither options 1 or 3 do what the OP wanted which is to replace the Maynooth line from Clonsilla in with a tram, since you'd need to keep pretty much the entire heavy rail line intact (and in fact option 1 is pretty pointless in itself). Option 3 would be a good thing to do in it's own right as part of a line upgrade (if you could, because the canal means space to provide them is quite limited) but wouldn't facilitate the OP's scheme at all, because heavy rail trains can't run on a tram line no matter how many passing loops you provide.

Muahahaha · 10-04-2014 4:46pm

Victor wrote: »

There is a Dublin Bus 747 every 15 minutes

Aircoach have
700 - 30 minutes
702 - 60 minutes
703 - 60 minutes

I'm sure a tram could cope. That said, to remain time competitive, not all trams might stop at all stops.

Thanks. I presume they would have carriages with specially installed luggage racks on them too ? It just had me scratching my head, especially if the route began in Swords which has a pretty big population. I suppose a lot of Swords people work in the airport so would be getting off there, creating more space for airline passengers going into the city center. But it just got me wondering if Luas can handle the loads at the airport then why was the Metro North and associated expensive underground tunnelling ever even considered as the favoured option ? Was it just a bit of Celtic Tiger madness or is there actually some concrete reasons why MN would be favoured over Luas from the airport ?

Jamie2k9 · 10-04-2014 5:14pm

I'm sure a tram could cope. That said, to remain time competitive, not all trams might stop at all stops.

Would this be really possible operatioanlly?

As said time is a big problem and can't see a tram working.

markpb · 11-04-2014 7:09am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Would this be really possible operatioanlly?

As said time is a big problem and can't see a tram working.

LA ran a mix of all stops and express trains on one of their light rail lines for a few years so its definitely possible. They abandoned it after a while saying demand on the line warranted a full all-stops service so perhaps when the frequencies increased it didnt work any more.

Heavy rail (in both Dart and suburban form) is no faster than light rail (in Luas form), they both average around 30kph. Unless you're suggesting building a dedicated airport rail lime with very few stops, I can't see heavy rail offering a speed advantage.

Victor · 11-04-2014 4:03pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I suppose a lot of Swords people work in the airport so would be getting off there, creating more space for airline passengers going into the city center.

I get the impression that the proportion of people working in the airport is modest relative to its proximity. In any such situation, if you want space for airport passengers, just starts some services at the airport.

But it just got me wondering if Luas can handle the loads at the airport then why was the Metro North and associated expensive underground tunnelling ever even considered as the favoured option ? Was it just a bit of Celtic Tiger madness or is there actually some concrete reasons why MN would be favoured over Luas from the airport ?

Luas wouln't be able to provide the same level of service as Metro North - not in frequency, size of tram, service reliability, speed of service. The airport represented only a small proportion 10%?) of Metro North passengers.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Would this be really possible operatioanlly?

Of course - it is used on the Larne line. The semi-express departs immediately before the all-stops. This gives it the maximum time / distance away from the tram in front. By the time you have travelled a substantial distance, you will have caught up with the tram in front, givign a substantial time saving. If you get the timings right, you can have a third track where you can over-take the tram in front.

cgcsb · 11-04-2014 7:23pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just a question about Luas going to the airport over Metro North. Did the RPA ever seriously consider it back in the planning stages or has it just entered the mix since Metro North got shelved ? Also would Luas be able to handle the capacity of Dublin airport ? I'm just thinking that if it begun in Swords and then went to stops outside the two terminals then they would need very high frequencies because even at a capacity of 300 people per tram it could still struggle to cope with Ryanair and Aer Lingus dropping 200 people out of the sky every 10 minutes or so. Are there any figures out there for averages of people taking Aircoach/Dublin Bus from the airport to the city ?

Luas is not being officially considered to serve the Airport, the official line is that Metro is the only show in town. The NTA concluded in their BRT study that the damand would outstrip the capacity of light rail on that corridor. Yet the govt is forcing through this BRT bo11ix never the less.

cgcsb · 11-04-2014 7:30pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thanks. I presume they would have carriages with specially installed luggage racks on them too ? It just had me scratching my head, especially if the route began in Swords which has a pretty big population. I suppose a lot of Swords people work in the airport so would be getting off there, creating more space for airline passengers going into the city center. But it just got me wondering if Luas can handle the loads at the airport then why was the Metro North and associated expensive underground tunnelling ever even considered as the favoured option ? Was it just a bit of Celtic Tiger madness or is there actually some concrete reasons why MN would be favoured over Luas from the airport ?

the only reason underground systems are considered in any city is because there is no realistic option for surface running due to space constraints. With metro North originally it was planned to above ground on the ballymun road and dive underground at st Mobhi road but the ressidents association for Ballymun complained that the running rail on a elevated viaduct would attract anti social behaviour, go figure.

strassenwo!f · 11-04-2014 11:48pm

I can't really see the point in the blue line in Victor's map above. It avoids most residential areas along the way, going through empty and remote places like golf courses and then the Phoenix Park before hitting the river, where it is very unlikely that it would be able to have neat connections with either the mainline Heuston Station or the proposed underground DART station (because of the necessary flyovers, etc). Absolutely not worth all the expensive tunnelling (cut and cover, or otherwise) involved, in any scenario.

If you were going to spend all that money, you'd be better off tunnelling some form of a triangular link between the Maynooth line and the Kildare line, through Lucan, at the left of the map. This would take Maynooth/Leixlip suburban trains off the black route shown by Victor, and you could also start trains at Clonsilla (for example) heading initially west but going into this tunnel. Looks strange, I know, but I feel sure that'd get people from Clonsilla into the heart of town quicker, if the interconnector is built.

icdg · 12-04-2014 9:02am

You wouldn't be building the interconnector at all in that scenario, the point of it would be gone.

theKillerBite · 12-04-2014 12:47pm

Extend BXD to the Airport
Build Metro West
Divert the Sligo Intercity Trains onto the Galway Line near Celbridge
Convert the Maynooth Line to Metro Gauge and extend the line from the Docklands to the city centre terminating near Tara St Station (allowing you to travel along Metro West to the city centre without changing trains)
BRT lines to Blanchardstown through the Phoenix Park and to Swords via Port Tunnel

Cycleways

Sutton2Sandycove
Cycleway along the River Poddle
Cyceway along the entire Grand&Royal Canals

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zWWoEiJ1GCKY.kYFJ9b7Tpqro

strassenwo!f · 13-04-2014 4:57am

icdg wrote: »

You wouldn't be building the interconnector at all in that scenario, the point of it would be gone.

It's a good point. And I may well be wrong about the idea of a triangular junction.

But there are always going to be Arrow trains or their equivalent. There is no way that all of these (potential) lines, to Navan, Sligo are going to be electrified. Such trains will not be going into the interconnector, if it is ever built, but they will still need to get into town, and they will still clog up services which might eventually be offered by electric trains

The focus for electrification should thus be on new lines, serving suburbs which are not currently served by rail, and on services which can be hoovered up by the electrified interconnector project (if it is built).

Where this leaves the southside DART line is one I can't answer.

icdg · 13-04-2014 10:59am

strassenwo!f wrote: »

It's a good point. And I may well be wrong about the idea of a triangular junction.

But there are always going to be Arrow trains or their equivalent. There is no way that all of these (potential) lines, to Navan, Sligo are going to be electrified. .

The potential line to Navan would also be gone (not that I believe it will ever actually be completed). The conversion of the Dublin 15 line to tram would mean you'd have to also have to either close the M3 Parkway line or convert it to tram too, as it'd be cut off from the rest of the network with no access to service facilitates for trains and it wouldn't be worthwhile building them for such a short line.

Aard · 13-04-2014 1:57pm

Victor wrote: »

SSG to Lansdowne Road DART.

Interesting idea. Has such a route ever been studied or proposed? The wide Georgian streets definitely lend themselves to tramways.

Banjoxed · 13-04-2014 2:46pm

Aard wrote: »

Interesting idea. Has such a route ever been studied or proposed? The wide Georgian streets definitely lend themselves to tramways.

The original DART proposals, before they got enviscerated by the Doheny and Nesbitt School of Economics, incorporated an underground line from Broadstone to Temple Bar, connecting with the Tallaght line coming in underground from Heuston and then to the Green, Merrion Square, Ballsbridge and joining the coastal line at Sandymount.

Banjoxed · 13-04-2014 2:49pm

icdg wrote: »

The potential line to Navan would also be gone (not that I believe it will ever actually be completed). The conversion of the Dublin 15 line to tram would mean you'd have to also have to either close the M3 Parkway line or convert it to tram too, as it'd be cut off from the rest of the network with no access to service facilitates for trains and it wouldn't be worthwhile building them for such a short line.

I doubt advocates of ripping up the Maynooth line would be too worried about that!

thomasj · 13-04-2014 3:29pm

Nah the maynooth line is too out of the way.

I'd be more inclined to convert the 39a bus route to luas rather than brt. At least it would serve the shopping centre with connections to itb, ballycoolin, mulhuddart, dunboyne etc.

A bigger population base for Dublin 15

syklops · 13-04-2014 3:34pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

The original DART proposals, before they got enviscerated by the Doheny and Nesbitt School of Economics, incorporated an underground line from Broadstone to Temple Bar, connecting with the Tallaght line coming in underground from Heuston and then to the Green, Merrion Square, Ballsbridge and joining the coastal line at Sandymount.

That sounds pretty awesome.

Im on the far end of the green luas line and it would be terrific if it connected to something else other than a very unreliable bus. There is a dart station about 4 miles away. I don't know how much it would cost to extend the luas to it, but really there is no reason in the world why the luas does not connect with the Dart on the southside.

MGWR · 13-04-2014 6:13pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

The original DART proposals, before they got enviscerated by the Doheny and Nesbitt School of Economics, incorporated an underground line from Broadstone to Temple Bar, connecting with the Tallaght line coming in underground from Heuston and then to the Green, Merrion Square, Ballsbridge and joining the coastal line at Sandymount.

Not with the Harcourt Street Line? That would have been the common-sense way to do things. But common sense went out the window in the latter half of the 20th Century and never returned, it seems; the Drumm battery-electrics that ran on the Harcourt Street line could have been readily converted to EMU, for example. (Even across the Irish Sea, British Rail was stupid enough to get rid of Newcastle's Tyneside Electric third-rail EMU service and replace them with DMUs, only to spend extra money to bring back electrification as the smaller-network Tyne and Wear Metro.)

Aard · 13-04-2014 11:33pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

The original DART proposals, before they got enviscerated by the Doheny and Nesbitt School of Economics, incorporated an underground line from Broadstone to Temple Bar, connecting with the Tallaght line coming in underground from Heuston and then to the Green, Merrion Square, Ballsbridge and joining the coastal line at Sandymount.

Yes I'm aware of the underground proposals from years gone by. What I found interesting was that hertofore I haven't heard any suggestion of surface tramways using the wide streets of the Georgian city. Particularly on the southside where the country's primary business district lies.

Muahahaha · 15-04-2014 2:18pm

Aard wrote: »

Yes I'm aware of the underground proposals from years gone by. What I found interesting was that hertofore I haven't heard any suggestion of surface tramways using the wide streets of the Georgian city. Particularly on the southside where the country's primary business district lies.

Wouldn't building a tram on Georgian streets raise all sorts of problems with basements, etc ? Running a Luas through somewhere like Merrion Square sounds like it could be a civil and structural engineering nightmare, and possibly a legal one too.

roddney · 15-04-2014 3:50pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Wouldn't building a tram on Georgian streets raise all sorts of problems with basements, etc ? Running a Luas through somewhere like Merrion Square sounds like it could be a civil and structural engineering nightmare, and possibly a legal one too.

That's pretty much what they are doing with the BXD line at the moment. Filling in these basements and moving services. Dawson St etc. are Georgian.

Muahahaha · 16-04-2014 1:05am

roddney wrote: »

That's pretty much what they are doing with the BXD line at the moment. Filling in these basements and moving services. Dawson St etc. are Georgian.

Are they filling in basements of the buildings the Luas runs beside, like the Dawson Lounge ? Or is it only necessary to fill directly below the tracks ?

1huge1 · 18-04-2014 11:05pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Are they filling in basements of the buildings the Luas runs beside, like the Dawson Lounge ? Or is it only necessary to fill directly below the tracks ?

Yes they are

See page 5 - Basement Infill Contract

http://www.dcba.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Luas-BXD.pdf

L1011 · 19-04-2014 7:14pm

Its only projecting basements under the tracks, generally coal cellars and similar.

end of the road · 19-04-2014 7:39pm

MYOB wrote: »

Its only projecting basements under the tracks, generally coal cellars and similar.

so bassically ones not in use and ones unlikely to be used again even if luas didn't go ahead

L1011 · 19-04-2014 8:55pm

end of the road wrote: »

so bassically ones not in use and ones unlikely to be used again even if luas didn't go ahead

Vast majority of them would have been out of use for decades yeah.

hfallada · 19-04-2014 9:45pm

end of the road wrote: »

so bassically ones not in use and ones unlikely to be used again even if luas didn't go ahead

Most buildings in the city center are only about 100 hundred old. They demolished a lot of the period houses and replaced them with the buildings we have now. But they left the only wine cellars and coal stores. Thats what they were filling in now. If you look at the infillng works. Most of the cellars are several meters away from the existing buildings and have nothing to do with the existing basements

AlekSmart · 20-04-2014 1:55pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

The original DART proposals, before they got enviscerated by the Doheny and Nesbitt School of Economics, incorporated an underground line from Broadstone to Temple Bar, connecting with the Tallaght line coming in underground from Heuston and then to the Green, Merrion Square, Ballsbridge and joining the coastal line at Sandymount.

Well,with this gentleman now back in harness,perhaps we will see a direct electrified service from Navan to Temple Bar !!!

He does know his way around Kildare Street AND knows how to negotiate a "Good Deal"....;)

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/anger-as-dempsey-makes-comeback-in-culture-role-30185872.html

liamog · 20-04-2014 2:27pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Well,with this gentleman now back in harness,perhaps we will see a direct electrified service from Navan to Temple Bar !!!

He does know his way around Kildare Street AND knows how to negotiate a "Good Deal"....;)

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/anger-as-dempsey-makes-comeback-in-culture-role-

There's a 404 error on that link

Victor · 20-04-2014 6:26pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Well,with this gentleman now back in harness,perhaps we will see a direct electrified service from Navan to Temple Bar !!!

He does know his way around Kildare Street AND knows how to negotiate a "Good Deal"....;)

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/anger-as-dempsey-makes-comeback-in-culture-role-30185872.html

Link fixed, but it doesn't seem to be on-topic.

Moderator

Cinephille1888 · 24-05-2014 10:54pm

I follow the discussion here regularly but rarely post.

I’ve a few observations and suggestions about possible future expansions of the Luas.

I feel Dart Underground, Metro North, and Metro West are vital investments that should be made in order to give Dublin the transport network it deserves. And the key here is network. Many here when making suggestion’s dismiss some projects or suggest point to point that suits some area’s and not others.

Luas expansion should compliment a more fully integrated network. It should not be a vanity project for well connected Ministers and Counsellors.

BRT/ Swiftway has the possibility of being too little, the wrong way, too late.

Luas Extensions post BXD need to be focused on the rail investment and density plans put forward in recent years.

Thus I suggest that on top of the Finglas extension to Meakstown/Silogue /Terminal 3 that has been partially explored. There should also be a branch over the Dunsinkin tip, and towards the National Aquatic Centre stop on Metro West, through Mulhuddart/ Tyrlestown and close to Clonee and Dunboyne for further rail development close to the Commuter/Dart line. A possible interchange could be considered in future for a further improved network.

There’s enough free land across this stretch to make it faster than the Finglas branch, and also room to run it only on the north side into Finglas, or as far as the Micro-Depot at Broombridge.

I believe the Green Line extension south to Bray is important, but the Fasroe Loop may not be, at least not until development on recent expansions are actually met.

Line F Lucan imo should also have either a more interchange friendly final stop in Lucan, for shuttle buses between Sligo and Kildare Lines, or actually split and meet both main railways.

For it’s college green terminus I feel it should be prepared for the suggested expansion to Ringsend via Pearse Street. This expansion however could go further and go to East Wall via Spencer Dock/ Samuel Beckett bridge, and take 2 further splits. One Heading along the canal as far as possible along the south bank, possibly Croke park, and the other to East Wall itself.

A Loop -link with the Red Line could also be considered, or included as part of same works. Cross city connections will already be met by the X of the Dart routes, and Metro North, but Luas capacity not be shunted to terminal stops could help capacity as Trams could run over 2 different lines in city centre.

Red Line as it currently stands is bulging at some times in the city centre. Even with Dart Underground the city will only grow, and so will demand for network connections.

Other Lines should be considered, but without removing traffic with major investments the road space does not exist in most of the city for Proper BRT services, especially on many North Inner City roads.

Express buses that imo could complement a rapid transit network are (separate from Existing DB routes or future tenders):

Headways of 5-7 mins at peak.

Blanch via Finglas to Raheny/sutton via the North Circular Road.

( Why not build a link road through the old dump and leave an eco park around it. This may leave a less dense stretch on the route ruining catchment, but added attractions and the speed/time advantage could help justify it.)

Clondalkin to SSG via Crumlin road and the “R110” through Dolphins Barn. (Meeting all major Rapid transit routes as best it can.)

afatbollix · 25-05-2014 12:16pm

I was just thinking about the Lucan line

Why have it stop at Collage green? They should keep building out east,

Link up Grand canal dock -> Ringsend -> Sandymount (Landsdown rd) -> RDS -> St Vincents -> Donnybrook (RTE) -> UCD

Then have 2 branch off to Dun Laoghaire and an other to the Green line.

Irish Steve · 25-05-2014 1:33pm

There's a big gap to the North, and realistically, some consideration needs to be given to filling it. Finglas, Charlestown, The airport via St Margarets are all valid, the Northern industrial estates are conspicuous by their absence of decent public transport, Hollystown, Blanchardstown Hospital, all need better services.

Then, there's the thorny issue of how to get people to and from the new Prison site at Thornton Hall, and it would do no harm to have a decent rail link to the second largest town in Meath, Ashbourne, given the appallingly bad bus options at present, 2 routes to Dublin and 1 to Drogheda.

The Old N2 would be ideal as a tram route, it's way wide enough for tram tracks and the traffic lanes, pretty straight, and not overly hilly. There's more than enough space to build some decent park and ride sites, which might even reduce the traffic in to the city. There's plenty of open land that could provide maintenance depot facilities.

As for the political will to do it, that's a horse of a very different colour. I doubt I will see any of this in my lifetime, given how long it took to get the M50 built, and then modified to actually work properly.

cgcsb · 25-05-2014 1:48pm

Surely Ashbourne is way too far out of Dublin for a light rail urban rail link??

Cinephille1888 · 25-05-2014 6:55pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Surely Ashbourne is way too far out of Dublin for a light rail urban rail link??

Exactly.

Unless Fingal County council had a specific rail led development plan across the rural areas into meath, and worked with that part of Meath to link ashbourne, no such link would make sense.

It'd be better to run higher frequency buses down the M2 and N2 to Charlestown and Metro-west and Finglas Luas extensions.

That's the only way to up Ashbournes connection to Dublins wider network without crazy expense.

Yes New railroads across the land sound nice. This may even be more of an Inter-urban and light rail, than the Light Rail/tram of the Luas, but it would have very little catchment.

Commuter belt Meath is crying for strategic town planning in line with Dublin's expansion, but it will never happen.

Since rural Meath blocked the old rail alignment politically and with a sewer, and they trumpeted the M3 over the Dunboyne branch, then placed the toll before the last stop... well they, just don't want proper development.

They want every failed type of building and development that raises taxes and makes local businessmen and donners happy. God forbid their new and existing citizens can reach employment easily or spend less on petrol...

The Commuter belt should thus be consolidated around the Metro West Corridor and a green belt barrier provided on the border with Meath to remind them, "Your years of poor planning is bad for everyone, look at this well designed neighbourhood".

cgcsb · 25-05-2014 8:48pm

I would say Luas to Bray isn't the worst idea because that area is almost continuously built up with Dublin so you have a catchment for high frequency services. Commuter towns separated from the urban area are best served by mainline rail and/or frequent bus services, complemented by park and ride facilities to accommodate rural catchments.

Urban light rail isn't really appropriate outside of continuously urban areas.

MGWR · 26-05-2014 10:32pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Surely Ashbourne is way too far out of Dublin for a light rail urban rail link?

13.6 miles "too far" for light rail? There are far longer light rail lines than that.

Never mind the relative ease of putting an urban railway alignment in the median of a dual carriageway or motorway—this is another thing that has been done since the latter half of the 20th century.

But then again, the government of Ireland opts for cheaper (in quality rather than price) urban "light rail" that operates no faster than 43 mph rather than the "tram-train" variety which can operate up to 70 mph (or faster in some cases) and share alignment with the general railway network if needs be. Nor was it ever considered to put these trams underground in the city centre, making it the beginnings of a metro in earnest instead.

cgcsb · 26-05-2014 10:51pm

MGWR wrote: »

13.6 miles "too far" for light rail? There are far longer light rail lines than that.

It's not 'too far' it's too far to go outside an urban area which is why a less frequent heavy rail link would be more appropriate. The population catchment between Finglas and Ashbourne would be far to small to support frequent urban light rail. A Commuter heavy rail link would be more appropriate.

MGWR wrote: »

But then again, the government of Ireland opts for cheaper (in quality rather than price) urban "light rail" that operates no faster than 43 mph rather than the "tram-train" variety which can operate up to 70 mph (or faster in some cases) and share alignment with the general railway network if needs be.

I can't think of any such system off the top of my head in Europe, nor do I see the point of such a system. Urban light rail and heavy commuter/intercity rail are two different species with entirely different aims.

MGWR wrote: »

Nor was it ever considered to put these trams underground in the city centre, making it the beginnings of a metro in earnest instead.

I think it was but that was considered to be over designing. In the 1990's Ireland was still something of a backwater, public transport infrastructure had an air of 'new fangled whatchyamacallit' about it. An attitude broadly supported by the rag tabloids who often spouted on about how nobody would use luas. We are paying for it now, luas is exceeding it's capacity during peak hours.

end of the road · 26-05-2014 10:56pm

cgcsb wrote: »

It's not 'too far' it's too far to go outside an urban area which is why a less frequent heavy rail link would be more appropriate. The population catchment between Finglas and Ashbourne would be far to small to support frequent urban light rail. A Commuter heavy rail link would be more appropriate.

I can't think of any such system off the top of my head in Europe, nor do I see the point of such a system. Urban light rail and heavy commuter/intercity rail are two different species with entirely different aims.

I think it was but that was considered to be over designing. In the 1990's Ireland was still something of a backwater, public transport infrastructure had an air of 'new fangled whatchyamacallit' about it. An attitude broadly supported by the rag tabloids who often spouted on about how nobody would use luas. We are paying for it now, luas is exceeding it's capacity during peak hours.

which is why you never do things on the basis of what the gutter trash rags might say, won't happen

Aard · 26-05-2014 11:41pm

Light rail works best (in fact any form of public transport does) when there is an anchor at both ends. The city centre is an obvious anchor, but the outer ends of our current light rail lines work well as anchors too: Sandyford Industrial estate and Tallaght/Citywest. Of course, this isn't always necessary but it's good for avoiding empty trams going outbound in the morning and inbound in the evening.

Any new light rail lines should, imo, incorporate a landuse plan for any vacant/brownfield sites along the route. The Cherrywood SDZ is a good example of incorporating transport and landuse plans. For example, I really wish that the whole Broombridge area (Dublin Industrial Estate?) had been SDZ'ed or at least LAP'ed so as to make best use of the land around what is going to be a major interchange. There will be amazing pressure to rezone the land in the wake of BXD, and this can either be done from the get-go in a planned manner, or as is usually done here we can wait until somebody submits an application for planning permission until the whole area is redeveloped ad-hoc.

Victor · 27-05-2014 7:00am

Aard wrote: »

Light rail works best (in fact any form of public transport does) when there is an anchor at both ends. The city centre is an obvious anchor, but the outer ends of our current light rail lines work well as anchors too: Sandyford Industrial estate and Tallaght/Citywest. Of course, this isn't always necessary but it's good for avoiding empty trams going outbound in the morning and inbound in the evening.

Not quite. Ideally, it should go slightly / a few stops beyond each anchor.

Aard · 27-05-2014 2:30pm

OK fair enough. I suppose my comment was in relation to the idea of light rail to Ashbourne.

loyatemu · 27-05-2014 4:01pm

Cherrywood - Dun Laoghaire would seem a better bet than Cherrywood - Bray. You could certainly fit a tram line along Wyattville Road, its the rest of the way into DL that could be tricky.

petronius · 03-06-2014 6:09pm

I havent seen any possible route from Cherrywood to Dun Laoghaire, but it would have to link with a DART station.
I think there key is always to have connectivity with transport systems
and an extension to bray would have to link to the DART station, and similarly if there was a link to D.L. instead.

I think it is a shame that the BXD line is not planned to cross the north western commuter rail line and tolka valley and actually servicing population areas in Finglas.

similarly there is 2 rail lines from broom bridge to Connolly the concept of using the line south of croke park to for luas since i seldom see any freight trains on it, should be investigated

end of the road · 03-06-2014 7:01pm

petronius wrote: »

the concept of using the line south of croke park to for luas since i seldom see any freight trains on it, should be investigated

i think its used for diversions though when 1 line is down

Julius Seizure · 03-06-2014 7:04pm

Also used for M3 Parkway - Docklands in peak times, and the freight that was mentioned (Ballina to Dublin Port). Not possible really.

loyatemu · 03-06-2014 8:25pm

petronius wrote: »

I havent seen any possible route from Cherrywood to Dun Laoghaire, but it would have to link with a DART station.
I think there key is always to have connectivity with transport systems
and an extension to bray would have to link to the DART station, and similarly if there was a link to D.L. instead.

the planned Bray extension includes a Luas station just to the north of the Dart station in Bray (where the smaller of the 2 Dart carparks is currently).

A link at Dun Laoghaire would be more useful for commuters seeking to connect to Cherrywood and Sandyford from elsewhere on the Dart line (rather than having to go all the way out to Bray and then come back in on the Luas) but getting the line into Dun Laoghaire itself would be tricky.

Sam Russell · 03-06-2014 8:35pm

Why not go into Shankill?

loyatemu · 03-06-2014 8:40pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why not go into Shankill?

it goes through the northern bit of Bray with several stops, doesn't connect to the Dart line until just north of the Dargle

New Luas lines or extensions after BXD

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