Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Damp/Mould/Mildew on Bedroom Ceiling

Options
  • 14-11-2012 12:41am
    #1
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭


    It's a North facing bedroom, plenty of ventilation - vent from extractor fan in en-suite, there is a vent in the bedroom itself and both windows in en suite and bedroom are left ajar most days of the week, insulation checked in attic and all seems ok there. 4/5 spots on the ceiling starting to mould.

    Though I've done nothing to repair it yet it's driving me nuts, there is even mould starting on the ceiling where the internal partition wall meets the ceiling.

    confused.pngconfused.png

    Any answers or help for me?

    TIA


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    Subscribed.
    I have this myself and haven't found any satisfactory solution. Washed it off, repainted with mold resistant paint to no avail.
    Hopefully some helpful boardsie will have found a working permanent solution to this.


  • Options
    #3
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Mould needs moisture to thrive. So no moisture = no mould.

    Assuming there are no leaks (roof, pipework, etc) then in majority of cases the moisture is internally generated and not exhausted sufficiently quickly to the outside (vented) leading to continuous high relative humidity. This moisture will then condense on any surface with a temperature below its dew point thus supplying what the mould needs (i.e. moisture).

    To sort the problem permanently, the ventilation system/strategy needs to be adjusted to ensure sufficient ventilation along with increasing the surface temperatures either by extra heating or insulation improvement or both. It will also help the situation if the internal moisture load is reduced by using mechanical extraction when creating steam and not drying clothes indoors (e.g. on rads).


  • Options
    #4
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Mould needs moisture to thrive. So no moisture = no mould.

    Assuming there are no leaks (roof, pipework, etc) then in majority of cases the moisture is internally generated and not exhausted sufficiently quickly to the outside (vented) leading to continuous high relative humidity. This moisture will then condense on any surface with a temperature below its dew point thus supplying what the mould needs (i.e. moisture).

    To sort the problem permanently, the ventilation system/strategy needs to be adjusted to ensure sufficient ventilation along with increasing the surface temperatures either by extra heating or insulation improvement or both. It will also help the situation if the internal moisture load is reduced by using mechanical extraction when creating steam and not drying clothes indoors (e.g. on rads).


    Thanks, that's one thing we don't actually do is dry clothes on the rads.

    So, where do I go from here, how do I get rid of the existing patches and then is it worth buying that insulating paint that I've seen in Woodies, it's about 75 euro.

    I would also consider other types of insulation that can go on to the existing ceiling if it doesn't bring the ceiling down too much, what options are there?

    Thanks in advance for your assistance


  • Options
    #5
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    In addition to what MicktheMan has said:

    Mold thrives on semi porous surfaces, so unless the insulating paint is non porous I cant see how it will prevent mold from forming on it.

    I have a similar problem in my front hall which is a small room with a tiny radiator and a cheap single paned front door. One thing that has significantly improved the situation for me is a thermal door curtain which is just a heavy curtain with a thermal lining. It slows down the heat loss in the room, and puts a layer of material between the warm air and the cold surface of the door, I have had a big improvement in how often there is condensation on the door since I put it in. I am looking into replacing the door altogether but as a cheap temporary solution the curtain is working well.

    I am currently monitoring my situation with thermometers and hygrometers, I am considering a dehumidifier but tbh, I think its the temperature of the room I need to address. It is rarely more than a couple of degrees above the outside temperature in there, although this has improved somewhat since I put the curtain in, its only a part solution and I suspect as winter gets colder Im going to continue to have the condensation issue.


  • Options
    #6
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    vicwatson wrote: »
    vent from extractor fan in en-suite,

    Does the extraction fan actually work (effectively, that is)? Where is the ducting from the extractor going, what type of ducting is it, is it insulated and how is it routed?
    vicwatson wrote: »
    So, where do I go from here, how do I get rid of the existing patches and then is it worth buying that insulating paint that I've seen in Woodies, it's about 75 euro.

    I would also consider other types of insulation that can go on to the existing ceiling if it doesn't bring the ceiling down too much, what options are there?

    Thanks in advance for your assistance

    Is there an attic above this space? If so, how is it insulated? If not then what is above this space? Do you know the makeup of the ceiling?

    Forget that insulating paint (don't always believe what you read on a tin!).


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    I'v got condensation on the window, a big picture window, every morning, could this be the source of the moisture?
    Gona try a powered fan on/in the extraction vent to see if that helps but tbh I think the mold spores are in the ceiling plaster at this stage and need to be murdered before I repaint.


  • Options
    #8
    Villaines
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭Villaines


    Dettol mould & mildew is a good mould killer and also removes black stains before painting. Contains bleach though.


  • Options
    #9
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    tommy2bad wrote: »
    I'v got condensation on the window, a big picture window, every morning, could this be the source of the moisture?
    Gona try a powered fan on/in the extraction vent to see if that helps but tbh I think the mold spores are in the ceiling plaster at this stage and need to be murdered before I repaint.

    The moisture in the air is condensing onto the cold glass of the window. Mold spores need damp to survive. They are everywhere all the time, but they need moisture and a porous surface to start growing on.

    What room are you talking about? Relative humidity is a function of temperature, so unless you are introducing significant sources of moisture into the house from cooking, drying clothes etc then you probably need to raise the temperature of that room.


  • Options
    #10
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    Yeah raising the temp is the problem. It's the bedroom and sort of outside the trunk of the house (it's part of an extension)
    The rad struggles as it last in the line and to top it all the windows north facing and surrounded by a wall and trees on the other sides. Might have to convert it into a pantry!


  • Options
    #11
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Its the exact same issue as my hallway. North facing, last radiator, not part of the trunk of the building. In my case its a cheap front door too.

    What about the window - is it double glazed? And what about insulation? Can you get the walls insulated?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Villaines wrote: »
    Dettol mould & mildew is a good mould killer and also removes black stains before painting. Contains bleach though.


    Is this actually called Dettol Mould and Mildew? Lookd for it in Tesco today and couldn't see it ?


  • Options
    #13
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Does the extraction fan actually work (effectively, that is)? Where is the ducting from the extractor going, what type of ducting is it, is it insulated and how is it routed?



    Is there an attic above this space? If so, how is it insulated? If not then what is above this space? Do you know the makeup of the ceiling?

    Forget that insulating paint (don't always believe what you read on a tin!).

    Extractor fan is the bog standard but it's a small en suite with a window so it's probably capable.

    There is an attic above the space and the insulation is regulation insulation (nothing hectic I wouldn't think) but I know it meets min requirements.

    I didn't actually pick up a product to look, saw it on one of those tv's they have advertising products. Not fooled by stuff like that.

    Ok, today I looked at the vent and noticed 1.the vents were pointing downwards so that air was not going towards the ceiling but the floor 2.the vent was shut over from day 1 3. when I took the vent down to turn it around and open it up I noticed some (not much) moisture/dew in the wavin pipe that forms the vent near where it is at the outside of the house - not sure if this has any revelance.

    Not sure if the vent being closed and pointing the wrong was has any relevance????

    Also, how/what is the best to clean the mould that's there presently ??

    Thanks for all help


  • Options
    #14
    Villaines
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭Villaines


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Is this actually called Dettol Mould and Mildew? Lookd for it in Tesco today and couldn't see it ?

    Something like that, green bottle. Best stuff out there. Stinks like hell though.


  • Options
    #15
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Villaines wrote: »
    Something like that, green bottle. Best stuff out there. Stinks like hell though.

    Well where did you buy it? There are a 100 green bottles along the aisles in Tesco alone :D


  • Options
    #16
    3ndahalfof6
    Registered Users Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭3ndahalfof6


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Extractor fan is the bog standard but it's a small en suite with a window so it's probably capable.

    There is an attic above the space and the insulation is regulation insulation (nothing hectic I wouldn't think) but I know it meets min requirements.

    I didn't actually pick up a product to look, saw it on one of those tv's they have advertising products. Not fooled by stuff like that.

    Ok, today I looked at the vent and noticed 1.the vents were pointing downwards so that air was not going towards the ceiling but the floor 2.the vent was shut over from day 1 3. when I took the vent down to turn it around and open it up I noticed some (not much) moisture/dew in the wavin pipe that forms the vent near where it is at the outside of the house - not sure if this has any revelance.

    Not sure if the vent being closed and pointing the wrong was has any relevance????

    Also, how/what is the best to clean the mould that's there presently ??

    Thanks for all help

    I think by your own investigation you have found the problem, what you were trying to get rid of was being reintroduced to the ceiling and other areas, it will be interesting to see the results if you alter the vent positioning.


  • Options
    #17
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Well where did you buy it? There are a 100 green bottles along the aisles in Tesco alone :D
    Look out for THIS ONE!


  • Options
    #18
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I've had good results from using white vinegar in a spray bottle and simply spraying, wait a minute and wiping the mould off with kitchen paper.


  • Options
    #19
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    3ndahalfof6 wrote: »
    I think by your own investigation you have found the problem, what you were trying to get rid of was being reintroduced to the ceiling and other areas, it will be interesting to see the results if you alter the vent positioning.


    The result thus far was noise and breeze :D

    I need to clear the ceiling now and get it back to "normal" state and then see if the change of vent position has any effect.

    How in the hell are we supposed to heat our homes in this country when we have 6" vents open in every room :confused: :eek: :(


  • Options
    #20
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Cushie Butterfield wrote: »
    Look out for THIS ONE!

    Tks, I found it in Tesco and read the back of it, it seems to be more for mould and mildew around showers and sink and in between tiles? Ever use it for mould/mildew on ceilings ??

    "Suitable for: chrome & stainless steel, formica & plastics, ceramic basins & toilets, acrylic bath tubs & showers, glazed ceramic tiles & white grouting"
    biko wrote: »
    I've had good results from using white vinegar in a spray bottle and simply spraying, wait a minute and wiping the mould off with kitchen paper.

    Just pure white vinegar? No dilution??

    Thanks.


  • Options
    #21
    quietsailor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    tommy2bad wrote: »
    Yeah raising the temp is the problem. It's the bedroom and sort of outside the trunk of the house (it's part of an extension)
    The rad struggles as it last in the line and to top it all the windows north facing and surrounded by a wall and trees on the other sides. Might have to convert it into a pantry!

    Is the last rad lukewarm where the others on the same line are hot?

    On the outlet of most radiators is a second valve called a balancing valve. It's used to set the water flow rate through each radiator.

    First check how open the one on the last rad is.

    You could try closing in all these valves on the radiators BEFORE the one in the cold room and seeing if that forces more water into the last radiator. If you do this keep a record of how much you close those valves - it might not work and you will need to reset everything back to the way it was.

    If that doesn't work and your house has zoned heating each zone will have another balance valve on the main pipe for each zone so it may be a case of taking water (heat) from another zone and sending it to the zone with your cold rad. At this stage though unless your a very strong DIYer I'd advise resetting all the individual balance valves to their original position and getting
    in a plumber.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Just pure white vinegar? No dilution??
    Yup, just pure. It doesn't stain or anything*

    *at least not in my experience.


  • Options
    #23
    MMAGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭MMAGirl


    All of the problems here will be solved by a dehumidifier. Put it on in the morning and let it get the moisture level down to 50%

    If you can get a silent one that you can leave on during the night that would be even better.

    Just breathing raises the moisture content of the room overnight. Water is condensing on every cool surface even if you can't see it.

    Remove the moisture and mould won't grow.


  • Options
    #24
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    MMAGirl wrote: »
    All of the problems here will be solved by a dehumidifier. Put it on in the morning and let it get the moisture level down to 50%

    My neighbour (well all my neighbours) have the same problem as me and more than one of them have dehumidifiers and the problem still exists.

    I have hygrometers around the apartment and relative humidity has a direct relationship with temperature so even when the rest of the place is warm and shows an RH below 50%, the hallway is still baltic and showing an RH of way above 50%.


  • Options
    #25
    MMAGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭MMAGirl


    username123 wrote: »

    My neighbour (well all my neighbours) have the same problem as me and more than one of them have dehumidifiers and the problem still exists.

    I have hygrometers around the apartment and relative humidity has a direct relationship with temperature so even when the rest of the place is warm and shows an RH below 50%, the hallway is still baltic and showing an RH of way above 50%.

    Have you tried a dehumidifier yourself and ensured you are operating it correctly?

    Another thing that makes the problem worse is people not turning on the heat in one or two rooms.
    Big temp differentials plus moisture equals trouble. I'm 100% certain a dehumidifier will help many times more than vinegar or bleach. Bleach first then use a dehumidifier. Keep the moisture out and mold won't come back.

    You can also get ones that duct the moist air out and the dried air back in.
    The machine doesn't have to be in the same room. They cost less than 1c an hour to run. Might be worth checking with an expert to look at your problem


  • Options
    #26
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    MMAGirl wrote: »
    Have you tried a dehumidifier yourself and ensured you are operating it correctly?

    No point, my neighbour with the exact same layout and problem in the same room uses one and it doesnt change a thing. He has borrowed my hygrometers and thermometors and we have comparable conditions. On top of that, I have sinus problems that (too) dry air will irritate.

    The issue (for me anyway) is that the room is not correctly insulated, is as cold as outdoors, has a tiny radiator that loses all its heat through the cheap single paned front door.

    Its worth noting that one neighbour replaced the front door and the problem is solved because the room stays warmer. I cant afford that right now though.


  • Options
    #27
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    username123 wrote: »
    Its worth noting that one neighbour replaced the front door and the problem is solved because the room stays warmer. I cant afford that right now though.
    A good heavy curtain or a thermal door curtain across the front door would help a lot.


  • Options
    #28
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    A good heavy curtain or a thermal door curtain across the front door would help a lot.

    Yeah, I put one up about a month ago. It has worked to some degree alright. I do still get some condensation when the outside temperature is very low - its not airtight ya know?

    Im planning on replacing the door, just not right now.


  • Options
    #29
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    So, I've cleaned off the mould with vinegar, and the vent is now open (getting blown out of it and freezing so hope its worth it).

    Should I use some type of special paint over the small patches where the mould was ?

    If it doesn't stay away with the vent open I don't know what to do.


  • Options
    #30
    clappyhappy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭clappyhappy


    Sorry for dragging up an old thread.

    Painting my sons room this week, bit of mould in one corner. I think it's where the roof meets an angled roof on the front of the house. Think a bit of rain is getting in around the lead, but I can't get up there myself to fix it.

    Will try the vinegar to clean the ceiling now and get the special paint to cover it up, then paint normal white over it.

    I suppose getting the lead sorted on the roof is the only permanent way to resolve this.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    jigsey
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭jigsey


    Sorry for Re-opening this thread :-)

    I am having the same problem since the House was Built in 2007

    North facing Bay Windows.on each corner of this facing wall.... We get black mould.. Every year we wipe it away with Mould X and it stays away for another year...

    Yesterday after conducting this Annual ritual, i said id investigate the space above... (Large Bungalow with insulated floor attic space -)

    The insulation is the Gray fibre stuff thats sprayed in between all the joists...

    In each corner of the affected area, its restricted. I managed to get my hand in, and found no insulation... For some reason the insulation contractors missed these important bits...

    So this week i shall insulate, hopefully that will solve the problem

    Jigsey


Advertisement