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Is Client not allowed on site???

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2

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    #32
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭mountai


    fozz10 wrote: »
    I would never trust an architect or builder to completely oversee my build no matter how good they are supposed to be. like another poster said if they dont want u there then get another one. personally i dunno how anybody would put all trust in a builder. once its their job its in their interest to get it done as quick and cheap as possible. at least when your picking the materials and more importantly the trades men u will do everything the way you want to, in otherwards right from start to finish. anyways maybe its its just been a trades man u know what goes on with builders but i would rather get a registered friend to oversee it and pick my own men.

    Don't know how anyone would put their trust in their Doctor either . There ARE true professionals in the construction industry as well you know. the best contractors DONT cut corners , and whilst profit is the goal, its not at the expense of standards . Yes Architects are unprofessional as well !! LOL


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    #33
    no1murray
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭no1murray


    Maybe all the know it alls should get together and build this house. I think this would resolve your issues


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    #34
    fozz10
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    good idea


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    #35
    fozz10
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    mountai wrote: »
    Don't know how anyone would put their trust in their Doctor either . There ARE true professionals in the construction industry as well you know. the best contractors DONT cut corners , and whilst profit is the goal, its not at the expense of standards . Yes Architects are unprofessional as well !! LOL

    of course there are but thats exactly it. they are professionals in their trade. but building is not a trade.builders are usually ex trades men so they might be experts in one trade and ok in others but thats it, i have yet to see a builder who gets the best trades men around. some yes but not all. even the best builders would not get the trades men u would pick your self. anyways nothing can substitute picking the trades men u have seen working over 10/20 years and know what your getting, but thanks to this government they will try to prevent u getting your house built they way they want nad u have to trust someone else


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    #36
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    fozz10 wrote: »
    of course there are but thats exactly it. they are professionals in their trade. but building is not a trade.builders are usually ex trades men so they might be experts in one trade and ok in others but thats it, i have yet to see a builder who gets the best trades men around. some yes but not all. even the best builders would not get the trades men u would pick your self. anyways nothing can substitute picking the trades men u have seen working over 10/20 years and know what your getting, but thanks to this government they will try to prevent u getting your house built they way they want nad u have to trust someone else

    That's some pile of ****e your after posting right their bud :rolleyes:


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    #37
    fozz10
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    whupdedo wrote: »
    That's some pile of ****e your after posting right their bud :rolleyes:

    thanks for ur opinion. its very important to me. of all my friends that have built houses i dont think any have had a builder do their house. because when u work for years in building u realise u want it done your way by people u know. anyways each to their own. bud.


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    #38
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭mountai


    I used to love it when the "Know it all " got stuck into something without the knowledge or wherewithal to see it through. They make a horses arse of it and then have to call in a competent outfit to put things right. "Save Money" they said
    Yeah Right!!!!


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    #39
    fozz10
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    mountai wrote: »
    I used to love it when the "Know it all " got stuck into something without the knowledge or wherewithal to see it through. They make a horses arse of it and then have to call in a competent outfit to put things right. "Save Money" they said
    Yeah Right!!!!
    who said it was money related? its quality related


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    #40
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    fozz10 wrote: »
    thanks for ur opinion. its very important to me. of all my friends that have built houses i dont think any have had a builder do their house. because when u work for years in building u realise u want it done your way by people u know. anyways each to their own. bud.

    Your talking about people with experience in the building trade, the original poster is a mechanical engineer with d i y experience who seems to think that his architect and prospective builder is out to cut corners and do him


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    #41
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    mountai wrote: »
    I used to love it when the "Know it all " got stuck into something without the knowledge or wherewithal to see it through. They make a horses arse of it and then have to call in a competent outfit to put things right. "Save Money" they said
    Yeah Right!!!!

    My old man used to say "theirs 1 thing worse than someone who knows **** all about it, and that's someone who thinks they know something about it "


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    #42
    cork2
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    fozz10 wrote: »
    I would never trust an architect or builder to completely oversee my build no matter how good they are supposed to be. like another poster said if they dont want u there then get another one. personally i dunno how anybody would put all trust in a builder. once its their job its in their interest to get it done as quick and cheap as possible. at least when your picking the materials and more importantly the trades men u will do everything the way you want to, in otherwards right from start to finish. anyways maybe its its just been a trades man u know what goes on with builders but i would rather get a registered friend to oversee it and pick my own men.

    Your average joe knows nothing about building materials and even less about a tradesmans capabilities apart form it looks nice! What happens if you get the house you wanted, it looks great and behind the scenes it's a shambles? Materials can fight with eachother and some trades don't know how to use specific materials, I know I specialise in fixing these shambles of houses for a living. The new regulations in this country aren't great but they're a step in the right direction! This self build, johnny down the roads is great, will you please build half my house for me mentality in this country must be killed at all costs. I'd never try to run a hotel or drive an ambulance.I am all for letting a client see their project every single day of the week if they please, I'll answer every one of their questions, and if possible at the time I'll make any change they want to the project, 9 times outta ten I even help them move in but that's where it stops! They wont so much as swing a hammer or pick up a paint brush while I'm on site and allowing otherwise would be unprofessional of me. People in this country don't understand health and safety or the implications of insurance. Also people here have already said it, this is not your site it is the contractors site, there will be a hoarding around the site with a gate which will be locked outside of work hours. The building will also be locked once the doors and windows are fitted and no letter, email, argument or tantrum will get the client his or her own key until the project is finished. It never ceases to amaze the amount of clients that look for a key over the christmas holidays to show family and friends around a building site!!


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    #43
    Eamon0224
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Eamon0224


    whupdedo wrote: »
    My old man used to say "theirs 1 thing worse than someone who knows **** all about it, and that's someone who thinks they know something about it "

    I don't agree. As a client, you have to make it your business to lean as much as you possibly can about all aspects of the job (without being an arrogant pr**k) otherwise you could get taken for a ride.


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    #44
    4Sticks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    I wonder why your architect is suggesting you stay off the site. If you were my client - I would sack you.


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    #45
    glashanator
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭glashanator


    4Sticks wrote: »
    I wonder why your architect is suggesting you stay off the site. If you were my client - I would sack you.

    Seriously man? .... This is your advice for a 1st time builder, who by his own admission that its all very new to him. And has come here for some wisdom beyond his own limited knowledge. Instead of helping him you berate him.

    If you've nothing productive to say please leave the thread.


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    #46
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭mountai


    glashanator wrote: »
    Seriously man? .... This is your advice for a 1st time builder, who by his own admission that its all very new to him. And has come here for some wisdom beyond his own limited knowledge. Instead of helping him you berate him.

    If you've nothing productive to say please leave the thread.

    The best advice that any "1st time builder" can get is --- Leave it to the professionals. ---- Lots didn't and paid the price.


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    #47
    4Sticks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    glashanator wrote: »
    Seriously man? .... This is your advice for a 1st time builder, who by his own admission that its all very new to him. And has come here for some wisdom beyond his own limited knowledge. Instead of helping him you berate him.

    If you've nothing productive to say please leave the thread.

    Bad advice is often delivered with a smile. At least the OP has you to tell him what he wants to hear.


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    #48
    glashanator
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭glashanator


    4Sticks wrote: »
    Bad advice is often delivered with a smile. At least the OP has you to tell him what he wants to hear.

    How many people have asked you to leave their threads this week 4sticks ?

    Your history on other threads shows you just annoy many with your sly remarks, sarcasm and belittling of people who are not in the know and often come here for help.

    You are not helping this guy,you're just getting his back up. And any good advice you may have , is probably lost amongst your digs at him. You just seem like you're trolling half the time.

    To be honest, you MAY be knowlegable in your field of practice, but I think you'd be impossible to work with.

    As said before, give him advice, its up to him to take it or leave it.But don't come here to abuse him.


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    #49
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭h2005


    glashanator wrote: »
    Seriously man? .... This is your advice for a 1st time builder, who by his own admission that its all very new to him. And has come here for some wisdom beyond his own limited knowledge. Instead of helping him you berate him.

    If you've nothing productive to say please leave the thread.

    Congrats on the mod job.


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    #50
    fealeranger
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭fealeranger


    I did my own selfbuild 2 years ago through direct labour and though it was a hell of a ride it is tough going to keep the ball rolling while working at the same time. I never heard of the rule where contractors do not let clients onto the site during construction. From reading the thread I get the impression from the Architect and Engineering guys that the rule is there but not enforced so I can't see the contractor having issues with this. Now I am not a builder but I would not agree with you doing bits and bobs to the house while the contractor is there. I am an elctro-mechanical engineer, similar to your position and I will put it to you like this. If you had a project to do that involved a few weeks work you would not like anybody messing around with it in the evenings or weekends. This is the way the contractor will see things. The insurance side of things is not an issue on this IMO because insurance is there to cover accidents whenever and where ever they may occur on site, day or night. If you want to do what you are suggesting and work in the evenings then you need to become the contractor and hire the hands as needed and plan out the build. This is the way to a modern self build project. It can be done you just need to find out how. Maybe some of the Engineering brains here could tell us how to go about a self build under the modern regulations. Self build was not done away with under new regulation it was regulated to avoid blackmarket deals and pay tax on labour carried out by professionals and oh I forgot to put some responsibility on the professinals carring out the works.


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    #51
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    fealeranger wrote: »
    I never heard of the rule where contractors do not let clients onto the site during construction.

    Just so as not to loose focus here...nobody is suggesting that the client is not allowed to visit the site, look at stuff, ask questions, etc...what is in question is if the work is being carried out by a main contractor, under a standard building contract, should the client be allowed on site to actually carry out work on the project, in tandem with the works the main contractor is carrying out and (crucially) oustside the hours the main contractor is on site?


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    #52
    Eamon0224
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Eamon0224


    4Sticks wrote: »
    I wonder why your architect is suggesting you stay off the site. If you were my client - I would sack you.

    I've never used boards.ie before but ignorant people like you give it a bad name, the amount of PMs i got from people telling me what they think of you and how rude you are is unreal.

    I suppose it's because of people like you that boards have developed the 'block' feature, so any of your little snide remarks now will just get blocked and put in the bin.

    To be honest, I'm just glad I don't know you in person where such a blocking feature is not possible.


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    #53
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Mod Note: Can we all please avoid mud slinging (and that applies to all posters) and back seat modding. Interesting topic...so lets please keep it on topic!

    Anymore OT posts will be deleted.


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    #54
    Eamon0224
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Eamon0224


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Mod Note: Can we all please avoid mud slinging (and that applies to all posters) and back seat modding. Interesting topic...so lets please keep it on topic!

    Anymore OT posts will be deleted.

    Thanks to those clients who shared their experiences. I appreciate your point of view, you have helped me decide what to do.

    I'm leaving this post now.


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    #55
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    please note there is a 'report post' function. All poster are welcome/advised/expected to use it


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    #56
    Rachiee
    Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Rachiee


    OP I really think you need to separate the difference between being on the site and carrying out work when the contractor is not there. Definitely visit, assess, oversee the work.But do so while the contractor is on site. If the contractor was to allow you access to the site when he or any of the other professionals arent there god only knows what he could come back to the next morning! Let him do his job specify if you don't want them to do any of the finishes and then you can do all that stuff when the contract work is finished.


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    #57
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    From an insurance point of view, the OP coming on site causes lots of problems for the contractor. While the contractor has possession of the site, he has responsibility for the H&S of his employees, the public and subcontractors.

    If the client is coming in at night, it is possible that he MIGHT alter some of the safety features (scaffolding, ladders, hole openings etc) which could lead to a subsequent accident. The builder's insurers won't be best pleased about this. Then, the client might not secure the site properly when leaving resulting in theft of the builders equipment, or worse, some malicious damage

    From the client's point of view, who is going to compensate him if he is injured because he is unaware of an interim safety issue that the contractor was in the process of rectifying, or if he uses a piece of faulty equipment the builder has on site?

    I have a lot of insurance experience regarding this scenario and it is not unusual for a principal contractor to only allow the client supervised visits to the site. Many clients who insisted on full access to the site were made take out their own self build insurance by the contractor in order to protect themselves. Personally, if I was a builder, I wouldn't like an enthusiastic amateur around my site after I left


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    #58
    relaxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭relaxed


    I find the OP's issue to be confusing to say the least. He mentions cabinet making, painting, tiling etc., all jobs that he can't start until the builder is as good as finished anyway, so when he says evenings and weekends then I don't see what the builder will be doing during all these weeks when the concrete floors are already laid, the whole house is plastered, carpentry and electrical second fix complete etc. . At this point a builder wants out the door and final payment asap.

    In my experience builders don't want people coming on site interfering with progress, but towards the end of a build they are usually accommodating in letting other tradesmen, or the owners of the property in to measure and fit kitchens, lay floors, tiles and paint etc., as their work at that stage is more along the lines of removing scaffolding outside, taking away equipment, waiting for ESB connections, cleaning up outside, snag listing minor issues etc.


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    #59
    4Sticks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    Eamon0224 wrote: »
    I've never used boards.ie before but ignorant people like you give it a bad name, the amount of PMs i got from people telling me what they think of you and how rude you are is unreal.

    I suppose it's because of people like you that boards have developed the 'block' feature, so any of your little snide remarks now will just get blocked and put in the bin.

    To be honest, I'm just glad I don't know you in person where such a blocking feature is not possible.

    Well I don't set out to offend anyone. This is a free to all discussion forum and I consider you were given great advice by many posters here myself included.

    I don't gift wrap my offerings here - the fee does not cover it :rolleyes:


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    #60
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    glashanator wrote: »
    Seriously man? .... This is your advice for a 1st time builder, who by his own admission that its all very new to him. And has come here for some wisdom beyond his own limited knowledge. Instead of helping him you berate him.

    If you've nothing productive to say please leave the thread.

    How can it all be new to him if he plans on painting the whole house? He must have some knowledge?

    It has been outlined to the OP the new rules with regards to H&S and also the new building regs (although they may not impact him on painting).

    Times have changed now, some argue for the worse, some argue for the better, but the days of legally, safely and officially sauntering onto building sites in the evenings and carrying out works yourself are over.


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    #61
    Eamon0224
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Eamon0224


    One other thing that is relevant here that I should of mentioned is that there is 2 parts of the build - a refurb of an existing part of the building (190 sq meters and an adjoining 180 sq meter extension, so I was thinking that I have the builder contracted to finish the existing part of the building first so I take possession of that part of the building back and do my jobs in the refurb part while the builder is finishing the adjoining extension - that way I get in faster, would that work / make sense?


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