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Is Client not allowed on site???

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    #62
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Eamon0224 wrote: »
    One other thing that is relevant here that I should of mentioned is that there is 2 parts of the build - a refurb of an existing part of the building (190 sq meters and an adjoining 180 sq meter extension, so I was thinking that I have the builder contracted to finish the existing part of the building first so I take possession of that part of the building back and do my jobs in the refurb part while the builder is finishing the adjoining extension - that way I get in faster, would that work / make sense?
    No not really. Just concentrate on supervision, you can suggest a time table of works for phased completion with the builder, but on domestic work this doesn't always work as one would like.


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    #63
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,276 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Eamon0224 wrote: »
    One other thing that is relevant here that I should of mentioned is that there is 2 parts of the build - a refurb of an existing part of the building (190 sq meters and an adjoining 180 sq meter extension, so I was thinking that I have the builder contracted to finish the existing part of the building first so I take possession of that part of the building back and do my jobs in the refurb part while the builder is finishing the adjoining extension - that way I get in faster, would that work / make sense?

    You probably get in faster, but you'd likely be adding to the builder's cost and the overall project time. It'll have an effect on delivery and storage of materials, schedules for sub-contractors and restrictions from not being able to use the existing part of the building, as well as causing possible issues getting consistency in finishes and services between the existing and new parts of the project.

    OP, while it's perfectly understandable you want to reduce costs and get the project finished as quickly as possible, and while you're likely very capable of undertaking some of the works yourself, the way you propose to go about some of these things is something which will cause a lot of hassle, and may not be as cost or time effective as you think. By all means take stuff like painting, tiling etc off the tender if you're going to do it yourself, but before signing the contract with the builder, sit down with him and the project supervisor and work out a strategy together which you both agree to and stick to it during the works, because if it's deviated from during the works, you might find that any cost/time/hassle you were hoping to save will be greatly if not completely diminished.


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    #64
    cork2
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    Eamon0224 wrote: »
    One other thing that is relevant here that I should of mentioned is that there is 2 parts of the build - a refurb of an existing part of the building (190 sq meters and an adjoining 180 sq meter extension, so I was thinking that I have the builder contracted to finish the existing part of the building first so I take possession of that part of the building back and do my jobs in the refurb part while the builder is finishing the adjoining extension - that way I get in faster, would that work / make sense?

    The odds of a builder doing this are slim, He will most likely want to do the ripping and demolition in the refurb whilst doing the groundworks and block work in the extension so as to bring them inline to wire, plumb, slab and such works all at the same time. Also as for getting in quicker again we're talking health and safety you can't move into one half to the structure whilst the other half is still under construction. Also just to mention I'm not aiming this at anybody in particular but a lot of builders are finding it hard to get money for works completed at the moment for various reasons and have therefore changed their contracts, myself included. Now the snag list and final payment are done before anyone gets a key or moves anything in. This is the case with a lot of builders around Cork at the moment. We used always let people move in as soon as possible and spend months chasing money and also get caught for damages caused in moving in on the snag list, this will no longer be the case.


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    #65
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    mountai wrote: »
    The best advice that any "1st time builder" can get is --- Leave it to the professionals. ---- Lots didn't and paid the price.

    The problem is too many professionals in this country like to cut corners and use sub-standard materials. Most people want to protect themselves from this. I don't see Hogans new rules doing much for the client in that respect.


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    #66
    cork2
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    woodoo wrote: »
    The problem is too many professionals in this country like to cut corners and use sub-standard materials. Most people want to protect themselves from this. I don't see Hogans new rules doing much for the client in that respect.

    The builder now signs off that the labour and materials are of a high quality and that the building is built to building regulations. The project designer/ coordinator usually an engineer or architect also signs something similar. They also notify the HSA and Building Control that the project is commencing given that the job will take over a certain number of man days which is basically inviting them to visit the site as and when they like and they will. I started a project ten days ago and the HSA called to the site today having received the notification. I believe it won't be every project just a projects at random. All this said Signing off and accountability is great but I'll believe it's not a revenue collecting exercise when I see someone locked up or made to demolish and rebuild something, Just my own opinion on it!


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    #67
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    cork2 wrote: »
    The builder now signs off that the labour and materials are of a high quality and that the building is built to building regulations. The project designer/ coordinator usually an engineer or architect also signs something similar. They also notify the HSA and Building Control that the project is commencing given that the job will take over a certain number of man days which is basically inviting them to visit the site as and when they like and they will. I started a project ten days ago and the HSA called to the site today having received the notification. I believe it won't be every project just a projects at random. All this said Signing off and accountability is great but I'll believe it's not a revenue collecting exercise when I see someone locked up or made to demolish and rebuild something, Just my own opinion on it!

    With all due respect a builder signing that doesn't prove anything of the kind. It's only his, subjective, opinion.

    Remember a while bunch of "professionals" signed off the now infamous disasters that this country is littered with. ..

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #68
    cork2
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    galwaytt wrote: »
    With all due respect a builder signing that doesn't prove anything of the kind. It's only his, subjective, opinion.

    Remember a while bunch of "professionals" signed off the now infamous disasters that this country is littered with. ..


    It didn't mean anything in the past, wasn't worth the paper it was written on a lot of the time! But I would hope this is the beginning of a change. I also believe you should be required to have a contractors licence. In a lot of countries you can't operate without one.


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    #69
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,276 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Let's keep it on topic, please.


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    #70
    JPW81
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭JPW81


    galwaytt wrote: »
    With all due respect a builder signing that doesn't prove anything of the kind. It's only his, subjective, opinion.

    Remember a while bunch of "professionals" signed off the now infamous disasters that this country is littered with. ..

    You obviously haven't read the new 'Design Certificate' and 'Certificate of Compliance on Completion' if you believe there is any truth in your statement. Why do you think that all these professionals are now up in arms?


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    #71
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    JPW81 wrote: »
    You obviously haven't read the new 'Design Certificate' and 'Certificate of Compliance on Completion' if you believe there is any truth in your statement. Why do you think that all these professionals are now up in arms?

    Until the first case is tested in court you doth assume too much methinks. ..

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #72
    4Sticks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    and you would be in the gallery or dock ?


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    #73
    cork2
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Until the first case is tested in court you doth assume too much methinks. ..

    I disagree with you. I believe with the new regs the new procedures will be enforced. The signing off by the builder and architect/engineer will hold water in court because I think it's a way of eliminating a need to provide a serious building control. In other countries at various stages you must have the building inspected by building control to proceed but not here. In all my years onsite I've met one building control officer ever. By bring in the new regs and enforcing them you take the responsibility away from the state to ensure a minimum standard of structure and make the individuals conducting the build 100% liable. Look at these lovely apartments in Dublin that all those people had to move out of, where was building control? Under the new regs I reckon if that happened again there would be zero comeback on the state!


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    #74
    ShatterProof
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭ShatterProof


    How's this build going?


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    #75
    FrontDoor
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭FrontDoor


    cork2 wrote: »
    Under the new regs I reckon if that happened again there would be zero comeback on the state!
    That is entirely the point of these new regulations.


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