Easiest way to move a car with the handbrake on?

djimi · 07-03-2012 5:50pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Ah come on now. Our Olan has appropriated Tragedy's space for one reason only - because he thinks he'll get away with it. A reasonable expectation of getting clamped would have deterred him.

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying clamping should not be employed as a deterrant; its just that in this particular instance clamping is not going to get the car moved any faster!

I would honestly say that in cases where the car is causing an obstruction (be it cars parked illegally at junctions or whatever, or as in this case where they are parked in a private space) towing is a far better option than clamping. Its an equally effective deterrant, and it actually takes care of the immediate problem by removing it.

That said, Im not sure that a private towing company would not be leaving themselves open to prosecution for car theft...!

Anan1 · 07-03-2012 5:53pm

listermint wrote: »

We dont know if this is in place?

We dont know anything about this lads case or the car park that he has.

so blanket clamping is a ridiculous suggestion until we know the story. Your inforcement campaign has been PROVEN to drive wedges between neighbours and neighbourhoods and generally kills any sense of community that may exist in developments. In fact it leads folks to despise the members on their 'residents committees.

Clamping is just another tool to destroy sense of community and is not warranted in most cases. I cant understand why you find it so popular.

We know that the OP paid 10 grand for their space

We know that other people are regularly parking in it

What do you suggest? That everyone be forced to put biscuit tins under the wheels of the offending cars and shove them out of the way? Fvck that - people have a right to have their private property respected. All you consaw wavers need to realize that you're not fighting some abstract powah, you're p1ssing on the rights of real people - people like the OP.

djimi wrote: »

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying clamping should not be employed as a deterrant; its just that in this particular instance clamping is not going to get the car moved any faster!

I would honestly say that in cases where the car is causing an obstruction (be it cars parked illegally at junctions or whatever, or as in this case where they are parked in a private space) towing is a far better option than clamping. Its an equally effective deterrant, and it actually takes care of the immediate problem by removing it.

Towing is much more efficient in the sense that it gets rid of the obstruction, but it's far too slow to deter short-term bad parking. It's also expensive, and generally impossible in underground/multi-storey car parks (not enough height).

listermint · 07-03-2012 5:59pm

Anan1 wrote: »

We know that the OP paid 10 grand for their space

We know that other people are regularly parking in it

What do you suggest? That everyone be forced to put biscuit tins under the wheels of the offending cars and shove them out of the way? Fvck that - people have a right to have their private property respected. All you consaw wavers need to realize that you're not fighting some abstract powah, you're p1ssing on the rights of real people - people like the OP.

Thats rubbish and you know it. The OP says he paid 10K for the spot. Thats all we know. For all we know there may very well be gates on the carpark, they may not work. that should be the job of the residents commitee to repair.

Again WE DONT KNOW the ins and outs.

Once again whos 'fighting the power' there are plenty of cases on here of ruthless clampers clamping visitors cars/cars that have all the documentation and various other legitimate cars parking in their own spots.

Then come out to go to work only for sum jumped up clamper to take away my rights of going to work? Are you going to compensate that person for missing the start of work?

Fact is clampers are notorious about their work and they do more harm than good here. You cant honestly say that is not true.

And meanwhile there you are flicking your curtains from behind the window looking out at your neighbours where rules and regulations just kill any sense of neighbourhood. Its true what they say people arent nice anymore. That was killed off during the boomy times.

skelliser · 07-03-2012 6:00pm

You are perfectly within your rights to remove a clamp as long as you dont damage it.

There is no legislation in relation to clamping.

Jimbob 83 · 07-03-2012 6:01pm

Ring the management company, what do you think you are paying for ?

Tragedy · 07-03-2012 6:01pm

Clamping serves as a deterrent because people don't wish to pay €120+ to be unclamped.

When clamping was brought in overground here, the ~60 cars that were illegally parking kept parking overground. When clamps actually started being put on the vehicles, they all mysteriously disappeared. Then they started appearing in the underground, people started double parking etc.

As pretty much every apartment has a parking spot, my guess would be people with a spot letting in housemates/spouses etc using their underground keyfob.
Ringing management company is useless in the short term(I tried), long term I'm installing a fold down parking barrier.

skelliser · 07-03-2012 6:02pm

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Rind the management company, what do you think you are paying for ?

management companies!! lol!

in most cases ur paying for nothing!

Anan1 · 07-03-2012 6:09pm

listermint wrote: »

Thats rubbish and you know it. The OP says he paid 10K for the spot. Thats all we know. For all we know there may very well be gates on the carpark, they may not work. that should be the job of the residents commitee to repair.

Again WE DONT KNOW the ins and outs.

You think this may be the OP's own fault for not gating the car park to physically protect the space that they own? This just gets weirder and weirder.

listermint wrote: »

Once again whos 'fighting the power' there are plenty of cases on here of ruthless clampers clamping visitors cars/cars that have all the documentation and various other legitimate cars parking in their own spots.

Then come out to go to work only for sum jumped up clamper to take away my rights of going to work? Are you going to compensate that person for missing the start of work?

Fact is clampers are notorious about their work and they do more harm than good here. You cant honestly say that is not true.

And meanwhile there you are flicking your curtains from behind the window looking out at your neighbours where rules and regulations just kill any sense of neighbourhood. Its true what they say people arent nice anymore. That was killed off during the boomy times.

I said i'm in favour of regulated saturation clamping, with access to an independent appeals process. This covers all of your above legitimate concerns. The only people you're defending now are the likes of <SNIP>.

antodeco · 07-03-2012 6:09pm

Can you put the fold down bar in front of his car by any chance? Have him blocked in.

Tragedy · 07-03-2012 6:11pm

antodeco wrote: »

Can you put the fold down bar in front of his car by any chance? Have him blocked in.

I'm waiting for the Directors of the Management Company to either give or refuse me permission to install them. At least if they refuse it, after I state my case and the consistent and recurring issues I've been having, I (hopefully) have a better legal leg to stand on for placing a parking barrier without their permission.

skelliser · 07-03-2012 6:15pm

why dont you just message him on facebook and saying if its not removed by such a date you will remove it for him?

Top Dog · 07-03-2012 6:22pm

I take it we're not going to see any photos of the inconsiderate parking?

Tragedy · 07-03-2012 6:31pm

http://pix.ie/khamilto/albums
Hopefully you can see
A)How little space I had to work with to eventually get my car in without blocking my neighbours
B)How far his arse is sticking out needlessly

unkel · 07-03-2012 6:34pm

Tragedy wrote: »

I'm waiting for the Directors of the Management Company to either give or refuse me permission to install them. At least if they refuse it, after I state my case and the consistent and recurring issues I've been having, I (hopefully) have a better legal leg to stand on for placing a parking barrier without their permission.

At last some sense / reason in this thread. You paid for your parking space. You pay the management company to ensure you can use it. If you can prove that you can't use it, the management company is in breach of your contract with them. Email / write to them and keep all documentation. No luck in a few months then take it to the small claims court. If you can't park anywhere legally in the mean time, pay for your parking and keep all your receipts. They will be refunded

Anan1 · 07-03-2012 6:35pm

As things stand, would he be able to wriggle out past that pole even with your car up against his bumper?

Alanstrainor · 07-03-2012 6:37pm

Right, I removed this guys Facebook account and name from this thread. It's hardly fair letting this kind of information loose on the net for some poor parking

brembo26 · 07-03-2012 6:52pm

boo-urns boo-urns :P

07-03-2012 7:08pm

Tragedy wrote: »

http://pix.ie/khamilto/albums
Hopefully you can see
A)How little space I had to work with to eventually get my car in without blocking my neighbours
B)How far his arse is sticking out needlessly

Can folks get into and out of the parking space to the left of the shot from the other side?

43C6A3D973FB409E9CAFB7E4E0C894CE-0000353442-0002768014-00500L-7EB73515650940879B4143DA13EE099A.gif

43C6A3D973FB409E9CAFB7E4E0C894CE-0000353442-0002768014-00500L-7EB73515650940879B4143DA13EE099A.gif

Tragedy · 07-03-2012 7:41pm

Yeah, it's a weird spot that you're technically meant to parallel park in. The lady who uses the spot just drives in diagonally and leaves the arse of her 206 hanging out a bit (fair enough!).

Went to parents to get trolley jack, came back and car was gone. I r disappoint.
@Alan fair enough, figured naming and shaming was ok but linking to his facebook might have been a bit ott!

Top Dog · 07-03-2012 7:45pm

Tragedy wrote: »

http://pix.ie/khamilto/albums
Hopefully you can see
A)How little space I had to work with to eventually get my car in without blocking my neighbours
B)How far his arse is sticking out needlessly

Can see both alright - and fair play on squeezing in. I'm guessing about a 63 point turn?

My only concern now, would be what could happen to your own car now if its going to be left there for a number of weeks? Say the owner of the Merc comes back, contacts whoever (Gardai, Management company) to report that this Rover has been abandoned blocking him in, can point to the fact that he's (mostly) within a parking space where the Rover is clearly not ... I'd just be worried what'll happen your car. Is there any way of ensuring that your own car isn't removed/clamped for causing a deliberate obstruction?

Top Dog · 07-03-2012 7:47pm

Tragedy wrote: »

Went to parents to get trolley jack, came back and car was gone. I r disappoint.
@Alan fair enough, figured naming and shaming was ok but linking to his facebook might have been a bit ott!

Oh well - thats my post above now rendered completly irrelevant

Big Nasty · 07-03-2012 7:53pm

Maybe it's just the pics but I think I've seen your car around before - kinda green flip paint? Not too many Rovers in that colour I've seen! :eek:

Anan1 · 07-03-2012 8:02pm

Tragedy wrote: »

Went to parents to get trolley jack, came back and car was gone. I r disappoint.

I wonder did someone warn him via FB.

Big Nasty · 07-03-2012 8:05pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I wonder did someone warn him via FB.

I would guess so!

Tragedy · 07-03-2012 8:05pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Maybe it's just the pics but I think I've seen your car around before - kinda green flip paint? Not too many Rovers in that colour I've seen! :eek:

If you're around Sandyford then probably! Living in the apartments at the end of Brewery Road, have you spotted the black Holden that's always around here too?

Big Nasty · 07-03-2012 8:08pm

Tragedy wrote: »

If you're around Sandyford then probably! Living in the apartments at the end of Brewery Road, have you spotted the black Holden that's always around here too?

Yeah, I'm up Ticknock direction - think I saw you down near Knocklyon a few weeks back.

I travel Ticknock to Dun Laoghaire most mornings and have spotted a matt black 4 door Monaro up around Sandyford Cross a few times. Also often see a black 4th Gen Camaro some mornings heading towards Sandyford coming from Foxrock direction on the N11. There's an 8er that I usually see on my way home, a few regular classics too to include a 280Z and a little 'ole fella in a 7er that gives me a wave or thumbs up every morning!

unkel · 07-03-2012 10:54pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I wonder did someone warn him via FB.

Very likely he was warned off. The power of boards

creedp · 07-03-2012 11:15pm

listermint wrote: »

Thats rubbish and you know it. The OP says he paid 10K for the spot. Thats all we know. For all we know there may very well be gates on the carpark, they may not work. that should be the job of the residents commitee to repair.

Again WE DONT KNOW the ins and outs.

Once again whos 'fighting the power' there are plenty of cases on here of ruthless clampers clamping visitors cars/cars that have all the documentation and various other legitimate cars parking in their own spots.

Then come out to go to work only for sum jumped up clamper to take away my rights of going to work? Are you going to compensate that person for missing the start of work?

Fact is clampers are notorious about their work and they do more harm than good here. You cant honestly say that is not true.

And meanwhile there you are flicking your curtains from behind the window looking out at your neighbours where rules and regulations just kill any sense of neighbourhood. Its true what they say people arent nice anymore. That was killed off during the boomy times.

Clamping can be effective if managed properly. In the apartment block I lived in clamping was implemented but clampers would only be brought in when the management was satisfied that the car was illegally parking and had not moved on after messages were placed on the car warning it would be clamped. I know not every management company is that hands on and I agree allowing clampers to clamp cars on a the basis of an individual complaint is a recipe for war in an apartment complex.

Marcusm · 07-03-2012 11:54pm

Tragedy wrote: »

Yeah, it's a weird spot that you're technically meant to parallel park in. The lady who uses the spot just drives in diagonally and leaves the arse of her 206 hanging out a bit (fair enough!).

Went to parents to get trolley jack, came back and car was gone. I r disappoint.
@Alan fair enough, figured naming and shaming was ok but linking to his facebook might have been a bit ott!

Did you leave him a note or is he completely unaware of his impact on you and this thread?

Oral Surgeon · 08-03-2012 12:41am

Tragedy wrote: »

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Maybe it's just the pics but I think I've seen your car around before - kinda green flip paint? Not too many Rovers in that colour I've seen! :eek:

If you're around Sandyford then probably! Living in the apartments at the end of Brewery Road, have you spotted the black Holden that's always around here too?

At least you've made a friend out of this thread.....

savagecabbages · 08-03-2012 3:07am

Are there any signs or indications that the space is reserved?
Not condoning what yer man did, but if theres no indication YOUR space is reserved, then I could understand why yer man parked there...

Are all spaces in this car park reserved?
Is it a secure car park?

An Ri rua · 08-03-2012 3:30am

marketty wrote: »

I wouldn't toRch it if I were you. Find some way to block him in but if you touch/move the car you could be causing a lot of bother for yourself

:D:D

An Ri rua · 08-03-2012 3:35am

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Yeah, I'm up Ticknock direction - think I saw you down near Knocklyon a few weeks back.

I travel Ticknock to Dun Laoghaire most mornings and have spotted a matt black 4 door Monaro up around Sandyford Cross a few times. Also often see a black 4th Gen Camaro some mornings heading towards Sandyford coming from Foxrock direction on the N11. There's an 8er that I usually see on my way home, a few regular classics too to include a 280Z and a little 'ole fella in a 7er that gives me a wave or thumbs up every morning!

That kind of bonhomie is one of the great pleasures of driving your (one means "one's", of course) type of car. Every driver to his own. You'll always be floating someone's boat with what you're driving.

listermint · 08-03-2012 10:10am

Anan1 wrote: »

You think this may be the OP's own fault for not gating the car park to physically protect the space that they own? This just gets weirder and weirder.

Your getting weirder and weirder if you can read what i wrote. Were did i blame the OP for getting a gate repaired ?? I didnt thats why.

I said its up to the residents commitee to repair the gate.

Also it seems that people are abusing the system (or not) in relation to access to the carpark. So it would appear that system needs to be examined maybe theyve issued too many gate passes. A review of that should be held.

Clamping cars is not the answer. We are never going to agree, sure your the biggest advocate for this practice on these boards so debating the ins and outs is a never ending process. I think we will just agree that we both have our views and leave it there.

alias no.9 · 08-03-2012 10:18am

savagecabbages wrote: »

Are there any signs or indications that the space is reserved?
Not condoning what yer man did, but if theres no indication YOUR space is reserved, then I could understand why yer man parked there...

Are all spaces in this car park reserved?
Is it a secure car park?

Is there any sign on your driveway to indicate that the driveway is reserved and not free for your neighbours to use to park up their cars for a week at a time? This Kerryman didn't need to know who's space it was, to know it wasn't his. Anybody living in a building with an underground car park will know what's what. In general, anybody visiting shouldn't be there. The 'oh, nobody told me' routine just doesn't cut it.

antiskeptic · 08-03-2012 10:23am

Tragedy wrote: »

Biscuit tin lids tomorrow it is! Hoping to wedge it into the corner so I can park beside it. I only use the car at weekends and I'm intending to lay it up for 4 weeks ASAP, so if the offending merc isn't gone by tomorrow or Wednesday it'll be stuck until April.

...unless the Merc owner has some biscuit tin lids handy.

savagecabbages · 08-03-2012 2:36pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

Is there any sign on your driveway to indicate that the driveway is reserved and not free for your neighbours to use to park up their cars for a week at a time? This Kerryman didn't need to know who's space it was, to know it wasn't his. Anybody living in a building with an underground car park will know what's what. In general, anybody visiting shouldn't be there. The 'oh, nobody told me' routine just doesn't cut it.

But some car parks operate policies of reserved spaces, some dont. Some even have a mix of guest + resident spaces... Driveways are different with only one or two spaces. I'd be a little pissed off with the management company if I was paying for a space, and if there was no indication that said space actually belonged to me!

Not condoning the illegal parking, i'd have the car moved/tires deflated long ago:p

alias no.9 · 08-03-2012 3:41pm

savagecabbages wrote: »

But some car parks operate policies of reserved spaces, some dont. Some even have a mix of guest + resident spaces... Driveways are different with only one or two spaces. I'd be a little pissed off with the management company if I was paying for a space, and if there was no indication that said space actually belonged to me!

Not condoning the illegal parking, i'd have the car moved/tires deflated long ago:p

From above

alias no.9 wrote: »

Is there any sign on your driveway to indicate that the driveway is reserved and not free for your neighbours to use to park up their cars for a week at a time? This Kerryman didn't need to know who's space it was, to know it wasn't his. Anybody living in a building with an underground car park will know what's what. In general, anybody visiting shouldn't be there. The 'oh, nobody told me' routine just doesn't cut it.

Visitors parking where it exists is usually very clearly marked as such and more often than not is surface parking. The OP stated the space cost €10k making it unlikely that any parking spaces in the underground carpark are unallocated given that at least at one time they commanded such an economic value.
This is nothing more than a chancer who saw the space empty for a few days and decided to squat on the offchance that the apartment it belonged too was unoccupied. The only solution to this is to build a reputation of zero tolerance to the occupation of other peoples spaces, they are exactly the same as driveways in that they're the parking for a persons home, even if that involves clamping. The balance to this, because there's clearly an underprovision of spaces, should be the tolerance of parking in any dead space in the carpark where it doesn't affect access or transit through the carpark

listermint · 08-03-2012 4:09pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

From above

Visitors parking where it exists is usually very clearly marked as such and more often than not is surface parking. The OP stated the space cost €10k making it unlikely that any parking spaces in the underground carpark are unallocated given that at least at one time they commanded such an economic value.
This is nothing more than a chancer who saw the space empty for a few days and decided to squat on the offchance that the apartment it belonged too was unoccupied. The only solution to this is to build a reputation of zero tolerance to the occupation of other peoples spaces, they are exactly the same as driveways in that they're the parking for a persons home, even if that involves clamping. The balance to this, because there's clearly an underprovision of spaces, should be the tolerance of parking in any dead space in the carpark where it doesn't affect access or transit through the carpark

just to clear this up, I lived in an apartment in Cabinteely. All spaces had a number on them. The underground had a gate system. But none of the spaces were 'allocated' despite being numbered.

And there were no signs to indicate either if there was or not allocated spaces.

alias no.9 · 08-03-2012 4:14pm

listermint wrote: »

just to clear this up, I lived in an apartment in Cabinteely. All spaces had a number on them. The underground had a gate system. But none of the spaces were 'allocated' despite being numbered.

And there were no signs to indicate either if there was or not allocated spaces.

If they were unallocated, is it fair to say that nobody ever paid €10k for a space making it clearly different to the situation the op described? No doubt, everyone living there understood how things worked too.

listermint · 08-03-2012 4:17pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

If they were unallocated, is it fair to say that nobody ever paid €10k for a space making it clearly different to the situation the op described? No doubt, everyone living there understood how things worked too.

There was no sign to say if they were or were not allocated, so to a new resident its not very clear what to be doing.

Im just saying its not as black and white as you are making out to be fair.

Anan1 · 08-03-2012 4:27pm

listermint wrote: »

just to clear this up, I lived in an apartment in Cabinteely. All spaces had a number on them. The underground had a gate system. But none of the spaces were 'allocated' despite being numbered.

And there were no signs to indicate either if there was or not allocated spaces.

His point remains valid, though - if one doesn't know that one has the right to park there then one doesn't.

listermint · 08-03-2012 4:37pm

Anan1 wrote: »

His point remains valid, though - if one doesn't know that one has the right to park there then one doesn't.

As you know by now everything has to be displayed clearly.

So i dont think its valid. Thats what signs are designed for, you clearly require them when clamping is concerned. If a space is not marked as private then surely its just a space like any other?

keithclancy · 08-03-2012 5:01pm

listermint wrote: »

As you know by now everything has to be displayed clearly.

So i dont think its valid. Thats what signs are designed for, you clearly require them when clamping is concerned. If a space is not marked as private then surely its just a space like any other?

Heh .... the old .. Theres no sign excuse.
Myself I don't chance it, don't want to come back to a clamped car, I'll always check with someone in a complex car park that i'm unfamiliar with.

Some people are pure psychos, came back one day and some guy had dumped engine oil all over my car, he had no legal right/ownership but ffs that didn't matter

listermint · 08-03-2012 5:08pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Heh .... the old .. Theres no sign excuse.
Myself I don't chance it, don't want to come back to a clamped car, I'll always check with someone in a complex car park that i'm unfamiliar with.

Some people are pure psychos, came back one day and some guy had dumped engine oil all over my car, he had no legal right/ownership but ffs that didn't matter

Im not using it as 'an excuse'

just saying its not as black and white as some posters would have you make out. so i wish people would stop saying it is.

There are many circumstances so when presented with anything you must take a look at all angles. Its what any sane person would do.

keithclancy · 08-03-2012 5:19pm

listermint wrote: »

Im not using it as 'an excuse'

just saying its not as black and white as some posters would have you make out. so i wish people would stop saying it is.

There are many circumstances so when presented with anything you must take a look at all angles. Its what any sane person would do.

I'm saying it doesn't matter, if you come back and someones taken a dump on your roof, poured brake fluid all over it or whatever you have absolutely zero come back unless you saw them do it.

Thats all.
Technically your right
In real life I don't chance it.

Stark · 08-03-2012 5:22pm

Anan1 wrote: »

We know that the OP paid 10 grand for their space

We know that other people are regularly parking in it

What do you suggest? That everyone be forced to put biscuit tins under the wheels of the offending cars and shove them out of the way? Fvck that - people have a right to have their private property respected. All you consaw wavers need to realize that you're not fighting some abstract powah, you're p1ssing on the rights of real people - people like the OP.Towing is much more efficient in the sense that it gets rid of the obstruction, but it's far too slow to deter short-term bad parking. It's also expensive, and generally impossible in underground/multi-storey car parks (not enough height).

The times I would recommend an angle grinder to people is when someone was unfairly clamped because of the clamping company's "****-up" and save themselves the hassle of months of appeals only to be told "please **** off". (especially if it was a cowboy organization posing as a legitimate business, such as say APCOA).

Sure why doesn't the OP just slash the person's tyres anyway? Same deterrent in terms of expense and inconvenience to the illegal parker.

listermint · 08-03-2012 5:25pm

keithclancy wrote: »

I'm saying it doesn't matter, if you come back and someones taken a dump on your roof, poured brake fluid all over it or whatever you have absolutely zero come back unless you saw them do it.

Thats all.
Technically your right
In real life I don't chance it.

Ah the 'oul dump on the roof' its a classic

Anan1 · 08-03-2012 5:32pm

listermint wrote: »

If a space is not marked as private then surely its just a space like any other?

No, not in a private car park. If you don't know that you're allowed to park there then assume that you're not.

listermint wrote: »

Im not using it as 'an excuse'

It sounds like you are, TBH. You're putting the onus on the parking space owner to defend their space, which IMO is wrong.

Stark wrote: »

The times I would recommend an angle grinder to people is when someone was unfairly clamped because of the clamping company's "****-up" and save themselves the hassle of months of appeals only to be told "please **** off". (especially if it was a cowboy organization posing as a legitimate business, such as say APCOA).

That's you - many people automatically take the side of the person clamped, with no concern for the victim. A simple test of a person's attitudes is whether they'd support regulated clamping with a fully independent appeals process.

Stark · 08-03-2012 5:34pm

Anan1 wrote: »

His point remains valid, though - if one doesn't know that one has the right to park there then one doesn't.

If you are going to have clamping in effect, you have to have clear signage to indicate that that is the case and where it is and isn't okay to park.

I suppose you'd defend these guys: http://www.eveshamobserver.co.uk/2012/02/21/news-Clamper-jailed-for-defrauding-motorists-30733.html with "Sure if they couldn't see the signs on the high walls, they shouldn't have parked there".

Easiest way to move a car with the handbrake on?

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