Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod request post#5808

PRAF · 03-09-2013 2:21pm

Just as some are prone to overestimate Agger as a player, I think some are too quick to minimise his impact on the team. I don't think he is a pure defender in the mould of a Carra, Terry, or Vidic. He is a very good ball playing centre half. Yes he makes mistakes from time to time but overall I think we have been a better team when he has played.

All of that said, I think Sakho will start more often than not. You just don't spend 15m on a marquee signing and leave him on the bench. That may mean Agger playing as part of a defensive 3, playing LB, or even playing DM from time to time. It may also mean moving either Agger or Sakho to play on the right side of a CB pairing (with Toure on the bench or else moved to DM).

It is a bit of a conundrum for Rodgers but its a good one to have if you know what I mean

PropJoe10 · 03-09-2013 2:23pm

PRAF wrote: »

Just as some are prone to overestimate Agger as a player, I think some are too quick to minimise his impact on the team. I don't think he is a pure defender in the mould of a Carra, Terry, or Vidic. He is a very good ball playing centre half. Yes he makes mistakes from time to time but overall I think we have been a better team when he has played.

All of that said, I think Sakho will start more often than not. You just don't spend 15m on a marquee signing and leave him on the bench. That may mean Agger playing as part of a defensive 3, playing LB, or even playing DM from time to time. It may also mean moving either Agger or Sakho to play on the right side of a CB pairing (with Toure on the bench or else moved to DM).

It is a bit of a conundrum for Rodgers but its a good one to have if you know what I mean

I dont think Agger would be mobile enough to play DM, and LB isnt a great position for him either. Cant Sakho play LB as well as CB pretty well?

PRAF · 03-09-2013 2:25pm

Kess73 wrote: »

Course it matters.

There are far more right footed players than left footed ones. So if we look at that with regards to the centre back positions, then right footed centre backs will be used in either of the two CB a lot through their development and as senior players, but given that natural lefties are a more rare commodity they will spend more of their development and senior time playing in one specific role and as such most, imo of course, will have spent years and years being very one sided in terms of how they develop.

Even look at when we have had injuries in the full back positions, how often have you seen any of our naturally left footed defenders being used to cover a position on the right? Then think about how often we have used right footed players to cover the left hand slot.

I do agree that a professional footballer should be able to use both feet to as high a level as they are playing in the game, and I do agree that in theory a player should be able to play in a right sided or left sided position equally, but in the more specialised (and probably rigid in terms of development) positions the players who are left footed do tend, for a large number of them it would appear, to be used on one side only throughout their careers and that force of habit has to stick.

Even take other sports, the same can apply. When I was very young and started boxing I was encouraged to fight in a southpaw stance as often as I did in an orthodox stance, same thing carried over when I started to practise martial arts at the start of the 1990's. but most tend to fight out of one stance or the other, and if you took the average amatuer fighter who has fought and trained in an orthodox stance for the past ten years and told him that he was to fight his next fight in a southpaw stance then he would most likely find himself in a bit of bother.

Basically my point is that a person who is taught and trained to compete in a number of positions or stances will stand a better chance of being adaptable to change of position/stance in a competitive enviroment than the guy who has spent most of his time since he was young training/competing in the one position/stance.

Did I also read in here somewhere that as a rule lefties find it much harder to use their weaker foot than righties do. Bring back corporal punishment I say. Back in the good old days, someone like Agger would've been whipped and beat into shape until he was equally as good on his right foot!

Kess73 · 03-09-2013 2:26pm

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I dont think Agger would be mobile enough to play DM, and LB isnt a great position for him either. Cant Sakho play LB as well as CB pretty well?

Sakho is better at LB than Agger imho, but it would be a hell of a waste of a player of Sakho's ability to use him as a makeshift LB rather than to play him at CB.

Knex* · 03-09-2013 2:28pm

Who ever thought that by the end of the transfer window we would have Sakho, Agger, Toure, and Skrtel all vying for two spots. Not to mention Ilori in reserve.

Some fantastic depth at that position now.

PropJoe10 · 03-09-2013 2:29pm

Kess73 wrote: »

Sakho is better at LB than Agger imho, but it would be a hell of a waste of a player of Sakho's ability to use him as a makeshift LB rather than to play him at CB.

Agreed. I think Agger and Sakho would be a fine combination in theory, but both of them play mainly in the left CB role. Maybe Sakho could play as the right-hand CB, with Johnson RB and Enrique LB. In any case, we've lots of options at CB now, which is great.

Knex* · 03-09-2013 2:31pm

Victor Moses' interview just popped up for me, if anyone is interested.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x143t93_victor-moses-first-liverpool-interview_sport

PRAF · 03-09-2013 2:32pm

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I dont think Agger would be mobile enough to play DM, and LB isnt a great position for him either

Possibly. He'd probably be best suited to a Franz Beckenbauer style libero role who would leave the heavy lifting to Toure and Sakho. If it is about getting your best 11 on the pitch, then maybe we could go with the following line up:

Mig

Toure

Agger

Sakho

Johnson

Enrique

Hendo

Gerrard

Cout

Sturridge----Suarez

Perhaps a bit defensive but you'd also have the likes of Aspas, Ibe, Sterling, Moses, etc to spring from the bench as required.

You'd also have the likes of Lucas, Sktrl, and Allen as backup which is a hell of a lot better than the types of backup players we used to have!

Knex* · 03-09-2013 2:34pm

Actually, if we are playing that 3-5-2 formation, or 5-3-2, whichever you like to call it, signing of Cissokho could be very shrewd.

Think himself and Johnson would be excellent in that system.

Wouldn't be leaving Lucas out however. He's getting back to his best and is vital to us. Breaks up so many plays and is starting to get back to passing the ball and dictating tempo/play the way he did 18 months ago when he got injured.

Paulegend · 03-09-2013 2:35pm

Knex. wrote: »

Who ever thought that by the end of the transfer window we would have Sakho, Agger, Toure, and Skrtel all vying for two spots. Not to mention Ilori in reserve.

Some fantastic depth at that position now.

i guess it puts to bed the whole martin kelly future cb

PRAF · 03-09-2013 2:37pm

asdfgh86 wrote: »

In October 2011 when the Suarez-Evra incident brought up the issue of race and football I remember thinking how 'white' the current squad was.
Glen Johnson was the only 'black' player in the whole 26 man squad (bar Sterling who at that point had never played) We also had the skinhead quartet of Spearing, Shelvey, Skrtel and Reina roaming around Anfield which wasn't helping our image either!

Fast forward 23 months and the Liverpool squad now features: Kolo Touré, Daniel Sturridge, Glen Johnson, Aly Cissokho, Raheem Sterling, Jordon Ibe, Andre Wisdom, Jerome Sinclair, Tiago Ilori, Victor Moses and Mamadou Sakho.

We're still short of native americans, japanese, chinese, Indians and possibly one or two eskimos. Only when we have them in place can we truly consider ourselves to be a multi-cultural club

Knex* · 03-09-2013 2:39pm

Paulegend wrote: »

i guess it puts to bed the whole martin kelly future cb

I think with Wisdom being shown a fair amount of faith by Rodgers, it probably does.

Kelly has some way to go now before he can challenge again for a full back spot in my eyes, which is a real pity as injury has stunted what seemed to be quite a promising player.

PRAF · 03-09-2013 2:43pm

Knex. wrote: »

Actually, if we are playing that 3-5-2 formation, or 5-3-2, whichever you like to call it, signing of Cissokho could be very shrewd.

Think himself and Johnson would be excellent in that system.

Wouldn't be leaving Lucas out however. He's getting back to his best and is vital to us. Breaks up so many plays and is starting to get back to passing the ball and dictating tempo/play the way he did 18 months ago when he got injured.

Yeah, I've been critical of Lucas at times on here, but his performance against the Mancs was mostly brilliant. Perhaps one or two times when he looked slow or put in a lazy tackle but that would be nitpicking. He would be a very hard man to drop. However, presuming Sakho starts then who would you drop?

If fit & available then Mig, Johnson, Gerrard, Suarez, Sturridge, and Coutinho are undroppable IMO.

That leaves 5 spots available and about 10 people who you could make a claim for.

Lucas isn't an undroppable IMO.

Oranage2 · 03-09-2013 2:43pm

3 CB is probably the stupidest formation I've ever seen!!!

It'll be

...........Mig
Johnson..Sakho..Agger..Enrique
..............Lucas..Gerrard
Moses.......Henderson.......Countino
.................Sturrige

When Suarez comes back it'll be him for Moses.

Raif Severance · 03-09-2013 2:43pm

SlickRic wrote: »

maybe I'm old fashioned, but I don't think this left-footed/right-footed nonsense matters a jot. it's nonsense. it can only matter if you're severely one-footed (i.e. to the point where you can barely kick a ball with your bad foot).

I actually didn't want to Start the Single-Foot Debate. It's just something that I've noticed, when I was watching Sakho's Vids.

Seeing as he hasn't played as RCB, I was just wondering why People are putting him there. And I'm not saying he can't succeed. But due to the Wealth of Options we have in there, I just see no point in experimenting with that Position.

The Point I was trying to make, is that we should be playing with our Best Defenders in their Best Positions, no matter who they are.

Now who is our Best LCB? Is it Sakho? If he is, then he Starts. Simple as.

Now who is our Best RCB? Is it Agger? Toure? Skrtel?

We should be choosing Players based on their Ability and not trying to make Allowances for them due to Sentiments.

Sure you could play it like this.
--LCB----RCB--
-Agger--Sakho

But wouldn't it be more better if we did this?
--LCB----RCB--
-Sakho--Toure

Or this?
--LCB----RCB--
-Sakho--Skrtel

Demosthenese · 03-09-2013 2:47pm

So we now need to play all our centre halfs at once??? Change formation? WHY?

We'll play the same system we currently do, with Sahko and Toure/Agger making up the 2 centres. Think about the way our fullbacks play and its pretty obvious that BR does not want a less mobile centre half playing left full for numerous reasons. Competition is healthy. Lets hope Sahko hits the ground running and looks as impressive as Toure has in his opening matches. But have no doubt that he is there pretty much to replace one of the current cb partners - most likely Toure.

Great to see competition for places always bodes well. Just gotta integrate these guys without stopping the current momentum.

SlickRic · 03-09-2013 2:50pm

just to be clear, in terms of the left/right footed debate, i was talking specifically about our CB situation.

Grayditch · 03-09-2013 2:56pm

Knex. wrote: »

Victor Moses' interview just popped up for me, if anyone is interested.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x143t93_victor-moses-first-liverpool-interview_sport

Lad seemed a but nervous but seems like a good skin. I have a feeling he's not over the moon about leaving Chelsea, even on loan, but I think he'll do his best on the field.

5live · 03-09-2013 3:05pm

Is Sakhos fee a record fee by Liverpool for a defender?

Agueroooo · 03-09-2013 3:06pm

5live wrote: »

Is Sakhos fee a record fee by Liverpool for a defender?

Johnson?

Dont be at yourself · 03-09-2013 3:08pm

A centre-back is not like a full-back or a winger, in that they operate in a 360-degree field, and crossing and shooting aren't necessary tasks. An attacker can approach you on your left or right regardless of if you are left centre-back or right centre-back, and a header, interception or tackle is no more or less difficult on one side of the pitch or another. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.

In terms of which centre-back pairing to pick, we need to look at fitness, style, complementary strengths and weaknesses before we even look at footedness.

barone · 03-09-2013 3:10pm

Sakho is one scary lookin dude

Speak Now · 03-09-2013 3:20pm

5live wrote: »

Is Sakhos fee a record fee by Liverpool for a defender?

Sakho was 15 and Johnson 17.5 I think.

woodyg · 03-09-2013 3:24pm

any word on Glen?

GTR63 · 03-09-2013 3:28pm

Comolli on SSN, had to change it to avoid spitting at my tv

Mickalus · 03-09-2013 3:29pm

Watching the goal against united again and Agger has a right head on him. "That f'kn poacher just nabbed my goal!!!!"

Morzadec · 03-09-2013 3:38pm

Wisdom made new captain of England U-21s.

Great news for him and for us too - says a lot about him as a player.

Thought he was fantastic against United when he came on

audman · 03-09-2013 3:38pm

Mickalus wrote: »

Watching the goal against united again and Agger has a right head on him. "That f'kn poacher just nabbed my goal!!!!"

I noticed that too

but the reaction immediately changes almost as if to say "ah sure f*ck it we're 1-0 up against United" and he goes off to celebrate with the lads

You can see every expression in these photos

Morzadec · 03-09-2013 3:39pm

Mickalus wrote: »

Watching the goal against united again and Agger has a right head on him. "That f'kn poacher just nabbed my goal!!!!"

I remember thinking that also! Though I'm certain Sturridge's touch was vital and needed - put it right between the 2 defenders on the line who didn't have time to react

Grayditch · 03-09-2013 3:40pm

Mickalus wrote: »

Watching the goal against united again and Agger has a right head on him. "That f'kn poacher just nabbed my goal!!!!"

Yeah. I did look like Sturridge was trying to duck it, at first, though.

audman · 03-09-2013 3:42pm

Morzadec wrote: »

I remember thinking that also! Though I'm certain Sturridge's touch was vital and needed - put it right between the 2 defenders on the line who didn't have time to react

True, Cleverly definitely would have cleared it and Evra might have got a foot on it if Cleverly wasn't there.

Raif Severance · 03-09-2013 3:43pm

Morzadec wrote: »

I remember thinking that also! Though I'm certain Sturridge's touch was vital and needed - put it right between the 2 defenders on the line who didn't have time to react

Yup.

Based on the Trajectory of the Ball, it would have been cleared, had it not been for Sturridge.

Insane Rambling · 03-09-2013 3:45pm

Mickalus wrote: »

Watching the goal against united again and Agger has a right head on him. "That f'kn poacher just nabbed my goal!!!!"

I thought the same thing... had Agger backed at 28/1 to score first (Boyle Sports were doing double the odds for a goal in the forst 20 minutes) ! Looking at the replay though it would have been stopped by Cleverly on the line if Sturridge didn't get the flick.

hefferboi · 03-09-2013 3:53pm

Kess73 wrote: »

Course it matters.

There are far more right footed players than left footed ones. So if we look at that with regards to the centre back positions, then right footed centre backs will be used in either of the two CB a lot through their development and as senior players, but given that natural lefties are a more rare commodity they will spend more of their development and senior time playing in one specific role and as such most, imo of course, will have spent years and years being very one sided in terms of how they develop.

Even look at when we have had injuries in the full back positions, how often have you seen any of our naturally left footed defenders being used to cover a position on the right? Then think about how often we have used right footed players to cover the left hand slot.

I do agree that a professional footballer should be able to use both feet to as high a level as they are playing in the game, and I do agree that in theory a player should be able to play in a right sided or left sided position equally, but in the more specialised (and probably rigid in terms of development) positions the players who are left footed do tend, for a large number of them it would appear, to be used on one side only throughout their careers and that force of habit has to stick.

Even take other sports, the same can apply. When I was very young and started boxing I was encouraged to fight in a southpaw stance as often as I did in an orthodox stance, same thing carried over when I started to practise martial arts at the start of the 1990's. but most tend to fight out of one stance or the other, and if you took the average amatuer fighter who has fought and trained in an orthodox stance for the past ten years and told him that he was to fight his next fight in a southpaw stance then he would most likely find himself in a bit of bother.

Basically my point is that a person who is taught and trained to compete in a number of positions or stances will stand a better chance of being adaptable to change of position/stance in a competitive enviroment than the guy who has spent most of his time since he was young training/competing in the one position/stance.

All I took from this post is, don't fcuk with Kess!

hefferboi · 03-09-2013 3:56pm

Happy to see Borini get a move to a PL club. It was obvious he would only have a cameo role with us this season. I really hope he stays injury free and proves to the majority of Liverpool supporters that he can be a quality player for us.

T-K-O · 03-09-2013 3:59pm

SlickRic wrote: »

maybe I'm old fashioned, but I don't think this left-footed/right-footed nonsense matters a jot. it's nonsense. it can only matter if you're severely one-footed (i.e. to the point where you can barely kick a ball with your bad foot).

Agreed.

Of course the ideal situation is a left and right footed CB. However these are minor details IMO. A top centre back will read the game and ensure he is in the correct position.

In relation to our CB's, the form guys should start regardless of LCB/RCB

T-K-O · 03-09-2013 4:00pm

hefferboi wrote: »

Happy to see Borini get a move to a PL club. It was obvious he would only have a cameo role with us this season. I really hope he stays injury free and proves to the majority of Liverpool supporters that he can be a quality player for us.

Yup, I think Borini will surprise a few.

Lord Trollington · 03-09-2013 4:05pm

Our next few fixtures are

Swansea (A)
Southampton (H)
Sunderland (A)
Crystal Palace (H)
Newcastle (A)

Am i being ambitious in thinking that we could get 13 points out of a possible 15 from those games we have coming up? Is 15 points out of the question considering the start we have had?

Or am I away with the fairies?

Courtesy Flush · 03-09-2013 4:06pm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Our next few fixtures are

Swansea (A)
Southampton (H)
Sunderland (A)
Crystal Palace (H)
Newcastle (A)

Am i being ambitious in thinking that we could get 13 points out of a possible 15 from those games we have coming up? Is 15 points out of the question considering the start we have had?

Or am I away with the fairies?

Dont jinx it !

Gbear · 03-09-2013 4:08pm

hefferboi wrote: »

Happy to see Borini get a move to a PL club. It was obvious he would only have a cameo role with us this season. I really hope he stays injury free and proves to the majority of Liverpool supporters that he can be a quality player for us.

Or failing that he shows he's worth a few bob, maybe gets an Italy cap or 2 and we can sell him for at least the amount we paid for him.

hefferboi · 03-09-2013 4:08pm

T-K-O wrote: »

Yup, I think Borini will surprise a few.

I really hope so tbh. Seems like a good lad and obviously naturally talented but he's been really unlucky with injuries.

5starpool · 03-09-2013 4:08pm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Our next few fixtures are

Swansea (A)
Southampton (H)
Sunderland (A)
Crystal Palace (H)
Newcastle (A)

Am i being ambitious in thinking that we could get 13 points out of a possible 15 from those games we have coming up? Is 15 points out of the question considering the start we have had?

Or am I away with the fairies?

If we get 10 from those I'll be satisfied, although more is possible of course. We could just as likely have a bit of a mare though and only pick up 4 or 5 points to deflate the bubble somewhat.

PhiloCypher · 03-09-2013 4:10pm

Mickalus wrote: »

Watching the goal against united again and Agger has a right head on him. "That f'kn poacher just nabbed my goal!!!!"

Saw that too and loved it , our defenders are really attacking the ball in both boxes and only for the post the bar and Sturridge both Toure and Agger would have two goals apiece.

Outkast_IRE · 03-09-2013 4:12pm

5starpool wrote: »

If we get 10 from those I'll be satisfied, although more is possible of course. We could just as likely have a bit of a mare though and only pick up 4 or 5 points to deflate the bubble somewhat.

12 or more and I would be delighted, every match should be a must win and I hope the teams mental attitude suggests that after the break.

hefferboi · 03-09-2013 4:12pm

Gbear wrote: »

Or failing that he shows he's worth a few bob, maybe gets an Italy cap or 2 and we can sell him for at least the amount we paid for him.

I'd prefer to see him stay but if he doesn't show anything then I hope we get as close to what we paid for him as we can. Highly thought of in Italy. I reckon Roma wouldn't be long spending 10m to take him back.

dzer2 · 03-09-2013 4:13pm

5starpool wrote: »

If we get 10 from those I'll be satisfied, although more is possible of course. We could just as likely have a bit of a mare though and only pick up 4 or 5 points to deflate the bubble somewhat.

Which game do you see Liverpool losing

T-K-O · 03-09-2013 4:16pm

hefferboi wrote: »

I really hope so tbh. Seems like a good lad and obviously naturally talented but he's been really unlucky with injuries.

That is the litmus test for him. He needs to stay fit. I was impressed with him at the tail end of last season and also for Italy.

Gbear · 03-09-2013 4:17pm

dzer2 wrote: »

Which game do you see Liverpool losing

It's not that simple.

Over five or six games that all look guaranteed wins, chances are we'll lose one and draw one, even if our form is very good. Hard to pick which one because it's often down to how the teams feel on the day.

Otherwise City would win the league with 114 points this year.

mike65 · 03-09-2013 4:18pm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Our next few fixtures are

Swansea (A)
Southampton (H)
Sunderland (A)
Crystal Palace (H)
Newcastle (A)

Am i being ambitious in thinking that we could get 13 points out of a possible 15 from those games we have coming up? Is 15 points out of the question considering the start we have had?

Or am I away with the fairies?

Frankly I'd be looking at a full house for that run. Any points dropped would be disappointing. Swansea have been in and out so far, Soton looking less than expansive, Sunderland are a team that suggest they could collapse with a shove (anyone know if Borini will be allowed to play against LFC?), Palace have so many new players (ie just about everyone) its ridiculous and Newcastle are Newcastle.

asdfgh86 · 03-09-2013 4:19pm

dzer2 wrote: »

Which game do you see Liverpool losing

If you take each game individually you'd probably say they are all games we should be winning. But winning all 5 in a row is a different prospect.

Edit: What Gbear said

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod request post#5808

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