Extreme Combat Ireland Krav Maga: Carlow .... One Day Seminar

ShadowFax · 05-04-2012 10:00pm #1

Extreme Combat Ireland will be holding a one day seminar from 9am - 3.00pm, Easter Monday 9th April.

Location: Carlow Town Hurling Club

Course Covers

All types of defences against attacks. Single and multiple attacks against armed or unarmed assilants. Defense against ground attacks, headlocks, gun, knife and stick attacks are covered also.
We will also show you how to strike properly causing maximum damage to your attacker whilst minimum damage to yourself.
We cover conditioning and fitness through very effective cardio & fighting drills..
Its great fun to learn and its all based on natural instinctive movements.
You will leave the seminar with greater confidence and self knowledge that if you come under attack you have a way out.
Classes are good fun, friendly training environment and very informative for those interested in self defense.

For more info or to book a place (last few places left) contact Paul Ward today.
Course costs €30 and you will get a certificate upon completion.

boxer.fan · 06-04-2012 1:20am

A guy stands 20 feet away from me & points his blunderbuss & threatens to shoot.

Can you teach me how to not get shot to smidereens? Or is this the 1% thats not Extreme Combat?

pablohoney87 · 06-04-2012 9:57am

boxer.fan wrote: »

A guy stands 20 feet away from me & points his blunderbuss & threatens to shoot.

Can you teach me how to not get shot to smidereens? Or is this the 1% thats not Extreme Combat?

99% was an outrageous claim. But you know what krav is. Go to the seminar or not. No need to be a d1ck about it.

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 12:02pm

Hi Guys,

I'm posting this for my instructor, who 's not great with the auld technology!

The idea of this seminar is to introduce people to ECI Krav Maga, if they like it they can continue with regular classes, if not then that's fine too.

I have been training with him since last september and I love it. Great Class & Very Intense Cardio and fighting drills, great techniques and great friendly training atmosphere.

Anyone with any questions or anything else, you can contact Paul, details on the poster.

Thanks

Peetrik · 06-04-2012 1:02pm

pablohoney87 wrote: »

99% was an outrageous claim.

I agree.

ShadowFax wrote: »

The idea of this seminar is to introduce people to ECI Krav Maga

Honest opinion Shadowfax, do you think your 1 day 'intoductory' seminar will teach people to defend themselves against 99% of street attacks as its states under "course covers"?

SDTimeout · 06-04-2012 1:27pm

I think this is a good idea. Why go to Krav Maga classes when I could go to this one course to learn it all.

I'll be there

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 1:47pm

Guys,

This seminar is an introduction to Krav Maga for people that have not done it before and would like to see what it involves. It will show them the types of attacks that can happen on the street and how to protect yourself against them and get home safe.

@Peetrik
It states Krav Maga has a way out of "99% of all common attacks" ... it does not state the 1 day seminar will teach you all this in one day. It is merely a taster for people .......

@boxer.fan
With regard to the "someone shooting you from 20 feet away", lets be real here, of course it wont! No self defence / martial art will get you out of that. Your legs are the only thing that will get you out of that one

I (my instructor) stated 99% of all "COMMON" attacks.
I'm talking about the usual .....
haymakers,
headbutt,
shirt grab,
push,
front/back hair grab,
bear hug,
arm grabs
ground and pound from mount position
kick to the groin,
choke from mount position,
front/back headlocks,
front/back/side choke,
single/double wrist grab,
ground attacks
.........

From Yellow - Black belt teaches around 300 techniques, which cover the majority of all common attacks you will face on the street.

Anyone that is interested can come to the seminar and see for themselves.
Thanks

Peetrik · 06-04-2012 1:56pm

ShadowFax wrote: »

@Peetrik
It states Krav Maga has a way out of "99% of all common attacks" ... it does not state the 1 day seminar will teach you all this in one day. It is merely a taster for people

It states this under "Course covers". Blatent false advertising IMO.

In the interest of discussion (as this is a discussion board not an advertising board) I think you should consider suggesting to the person your posting on behalf of that they amend this as false claims on the advertisment shed serious doubts on the effectiveness of any of the techniques taught by the sport.

Just my opinion.

Wile E. Coyote · 06-04-2012 2:00pm

boxer.fan wrote: »

A guy stands 20 feet away from me & points his blunderbuss & threatens to shoot.

Can you teach me how to not get shot to smidereens? Or is this the 1% thats not Extreme Combat?

Thats considered a common attack where you live?

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 2:12pm

Peetrik wrote: »

It states this under "Course covers". Blatent false advertising IMO.

In the interest of discussion (as this is a discussion board not an advertising board) I think you should consider suggesting to the person your posting on behalf of that they amend this as false claims on the advertisment shed serious doubts on the effectiveness of any of the techniques taught by the sport.

Just my opinion.

It is not my intention to mislead anyone on here. I have amended the original post to reflect this. I have no problems with Mods moving/removing this post if they feel this is in the incorrect category.

In this seminar you will learn to defend against many of the "most common" street attacks as I outlined above ......

@Peetrik
Krav Maga is not an "art" as you said in your last post .... you then edited it to define it as a "sport" which it is not either. It is a self defence / combat system dealing with real life attack situations ...... I added some text below which explains it crystal clear for you!

Source: http://www.victorvillekravmaga.com/22.html

The Ultimate Goal is Survival
Krav Maga is not a sport! The objective of Krav Maga is not to win trophies or become a world champion, but to make it home alive. Let’s face it, in the street there are no rules, no referees, no weight classes, no fouls; just the cold brutal reality of unrestrained violence. For this reason Krav Maga trains a person to do whatever is necessary in order to survive. Many of the techniques taught in Krav Maga such as eye gouges, groin strikes, and knee breaks are considered illegal in sports like Boxing or MMA. The use of such techniques makes perfect sense when you take into consideration that an attacker in the street is not trying to win, but to seriously hurt, rape, or maybe even kill you. Remember, Krav Maga training is a matter of life and death; therefore everything in Krav Maga is 100 percent focused on survival!

Peetrik · 06-04-2012 2:46pm

I'll just qualify before I reply that I'm dieting for a fight and really missing my food so I'm probably more grumpy than usual, that said...

ShadowFax wrote: »

the techniques taught in Krav Maga such as eye gouges, groin strikes, and knee breaks are considered illegal in sports like Boxing or MMA.

I don't want to get into a style debate as its been done to death. Suffice to say I just don't buy the "our techniques are too dangerous" defense at all, of the 300 yellow-black techniques that you claim at least some of them could be adaptable to use in a ring. They arn't, despite the big money involved in MMA which says a lot.

To return to your advert, the range of things covered in a 1 day course under the "Course Covers" section still seem wildly unrealistic considering it takes most martial artists years of training to feel "confident" under any attack let alone attacks which include knives or other weapons.

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 2:54pm

Peetrik wrote: »

I'll just qualify before I reply that I'm dieting for a fight and really missing my food so I'm probably more grumpy than usual, that said...

Thanks for all your input Peetrik. I wish you the best of luck in your fight.:)

boxer.fan · 06-04-2012 3:08pm

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Thats considered a common attack where you live?

Not nowadays thank god, but its not beyond the realms of possibility. I was just curious thats all, since the flyer shows someone wielding a gun & it mentions armed / unarmed combat. I was also just interested in guaging what extreme combat is. Its only a question.

Dyr · 06-04-2012 4:21pm

Peetrik wrote: »

It states this under "Course covers". Blatent false advertising IMO.

You do realise that the phrase "course covers" would in no way imply that a participant will be fully proficient in those topics after the course?

Of course the Admins/ASAI/Joe Duffy are always there to deal with complaints of false advertising.

cowzerp · 06-04-2012 4:35pm

Peetrik wrote: »

I don't want to get into a style debate as its been done to death. Suffice to say I just don't buy the "our techniques are too dangerous" defense at all, of the 300 yellow-black techniques that you claim at least some of them could be adaptable to use in a ring. They arn't, despite the big money involved in MMA which says a lot.

Most Krav maga I see is just low level Mma, usually taught by tkd coaches showing bits of Bjj badly, thai badly etc

I think it's 1 of those systems that give people false sense of security, And has way to much emphasis on profit for my Liking.

Peetrik · 06-04-2012 5:21pm

Bambi wrote: »

You do realise that the phrase "course covers" would in no way imply that a participant will be fully proficient in those topics after the course?

Gaurentee no. But "imply"? Yeah it does.

Bambi wrote: »

Of course the Admins/ASAI/Joe Duffy are always there to deal with complaints of false advertising.

I know your joking here and when I said false advertising it was kind of an off the cuff remark but lets look at that.

Consumer Advertising reckons that "Advertisements are also considered misleading if they create a false impression even if everything stated in the advertisement may be literally true." To the extent that "it is likely to mislead and therefore cause loss, damage or injury to the public".

Just from my own [very basic] interpretation of whats written on the consumer advertising website, IMO, the advert is misleading about what it can accomplish in a 1 day seminar.

Again, I'm grumpy today so maybe I'm being a bit dramatic.

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 5:58pm

Peetrik wrote: »

Just from my own [very basic] interpretation of whats written on the consumer advertising website, IMO, the advert is misleading about what it can accomplish in a 1 day seminar.

Again, I'm grumpy today so maybe I'm being a bit dramatic.

@Peetrik,
Just for the record, I stand by everything I put in the original ad on here. Your very quick to label the ad misleading, even though you have no experience of the subject area in question, or what can be achieved in a such a timeframe with Krav Maga or what will be included in the 1 day seminar!

Krav Maga does not require any particularly difficult or unnatural movements. It is based on common principles and natural, instinctive movements, which allows anybody to retain Krav Maga techniques pretty quickly and with minimal review and practice.

If you've done Krav Maga before then you know what I'm talking about, if you haven't then you dont IMO

If your anyway curious at all, I urge you to come down on Monday and see for yourself, either that or start getting that food back into you bro!

Thanks for your input into the thread.

First Aid Ireland · 06-04-2012 6:17pm

I did KM for about 2 years a long time ago when I was fit

. It was great fun. Really enjoyed it and trained with some lovely people. There was no intention to mislead at all.

Then I moved location, and there was no KM available. So I took up another fighting system. I thought I'd be decent at it because of my KM background.

To say I got my ass handed to me when I started sparring against proper fighters is an understatement

KM techniques, in my experience, simply don't work in sparring environment. Hence most clubs don't spar.

I now think KM is pure fantasy. Having said that. when I finally get the time to get back doing some training I'd happily go back to KM. But that's not because I want an effective fighting style. It's because i want to bash some pads and get some fitness.

I know a guy who's been doing KM for about a year and a half in Dublin, and he really believes he can defend against knives and baseball bats. In a pub a while ago, he got into some verbal with a bloke, and he really should have walked away. But he didn't. Before he did KM he would have. But he had this confidence about him that made him square up to the other guy. He would have gotten carried out on a stretcher if we hadn't stopped it getting out of hand (this other guy looked like it wasn't his first time in a rumble

).

I think the OP should go to a boxing club or a muay thai club or an MMA club and fight against guys who've been training in that art as long as he's been training in KM and see how he gets on. Once you do that, I think you'll look at KM in a different light.

TL : DR it's great for fun and fitness, but pure fantasy for self defence, in my humbler.

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 6:27pm

Hey First Aid Ireland. Thanks for your post, it was an interesting read.

Krav Maga is only used as a very last resort, when there is no other way out of a fight.

The best defense is to not get into the situation in the first place.

First Aid Ireland · 06-04-2012 6:36pm

ShadowFax wrote: »

Hey First Aid Ireland. Thanks for your post, it was an interesting read.

Krav Maga is only used as a very last resort, when there is no other way out of a fight.

The best defense is to not get into the situation in the first place.

Thanks Shadowfax.

I don't think any martial art/defence system promotes violence as the first option. But the issue is effectiveness when that happens. My own very humble opinion is that KM is like a footballer training by just running around a few cones, or by taking penalties, or by just practicing little individual skills with his mate. He'd develop some nice skills to showcase, but he wouldn't be very effective in a football match.

I'm no expert in fighting or martial arts at all. In fact I'd be quite the opposite. But I think the comment above about how no KM techniques have been brought into the MMA ring is very telling. While I think the amount of confidence people have in MMA can be a little overboard, it's a system that's good at taking the useful stuff and getting rid of the rest.

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 6:49pm

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

Thanks Shadowfax.

My own very humble opinion is that KM is like a footballer training by just running around a few cones, or by taking penalties, or by just practicing little individual skills with his mate. He'd develop some nice skills to showcase, but he wouldn't be very effective in a football match.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there FAI, I'm afraid. I'm not sure who you did KM with for two years, but it seems you didn't learn much from it. I know that different people / clubs teach it in different ways and the way you describe your time doing it, you hit a few pads and got fit.

We spar after every training session, head gear, shin pads, groin guards, gloves etc, in a kickboxing format. KM techniques are covered in the first hour of the class, then cardio/fighting drills, then real world (boxing/kicking/kickboxing) sparring.

If your around Monday, come down and spend the day with us, you'll really enjoy it, and you'll learn lots!

First Aid Ireland · 06-04-2012 6:59pm

ShadowFax wrote: »

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there FAI, I'm afraid. I'm not sure who you did KM with for two years, but it seems you didn't learn much from it. I know that different people / clubs teach it in different ways and the way you describe your time doing it, you hit a few pads and got fit.

We spar after every training session, head gear, shin pads, groin guards, gloves etc, in a kickboxing format. KM techniques are covered in the first hour of the class, then cardio/fighting drills, then real world (boxing/kicking/kickboxing) sparring.

If your around Monday, come down and spend the day with us, you'll really enjoy it, and you'll learn lots!

I think the sparring is a really good addition, but it's not the usual KM format. A few years ago (and it's still the case today from talking to the guy I know who does it) hardly anyone was sparring. The only sparring I ever saw was when I went along to another club to see what they were like....and the sparring wasn't KM. The KM syllabus is made up of very specific techniques. So what I saw in KM sparring (at one club only, I have to add) was just kickboxing. But you may as well go to a kickboxing club to learn that! There was no "sparring" against knives and guns and baseball bats and carjackings and all these other things KM claims it can teach us about.

The other thing that also used to concern me was that I knew "blackbelts" or "G1s" depending on your governing body who's only been training twice a week for 3 years.

Having said that, I think the addition of sparring is a great idea. Next step would be to spar against other clubs and other styles to see how it matches up.

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 7:04pm

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

So what I saw in KM sparring (at one club only, I have to add) was just kickboxing. But you may as well go to a kickboxing club to learn that! There was no "sparring" against knives and guns and baseball bats and carjackings and all these other things KM claims it can teach us about.

KM techniques as well as KM Sparring inc knives, bats, guns etc are covered in the first hour of training in my club. So I get the best of both worlds IMO.

First Aid Ireland · 06-04-2012 7:11pm

ShadowFax wrote: »

KM techniques as well as KM Sparring inc knives, bats, guns etc are covered in the first hour of training in my club. So I get the best of both worlds IMO.

Fair enough. I know we'll disagree, but I think you're getting the worst of both worlds (though this is based on no experience of your club at all).

I think you're spending time on fantasy knife/gun/choke/carjacking stuff on one hand. I love it. Great fun. It was like being a kid again. But there's no way in hell it's going to work for your average joe.

Then on the other hand you're sparring in a "kickboxing" style with a coach who (presumably) isn't a kickboxing instructor and hasn't fought kickboxing himself.

That's why I think KM is not very good as a self defence technique. But go and prove us wrong. Arrange some competitive sparring against an MMA or kickboxing club. There's a lot of people who think KM is rubbish. BUT it's up to the KM community to try and prove them wrong if they believe that to be the case.

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 7:23pm

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

I think you're spending time on fantasy knife/gun/choke/carjacking stuff on one hand. I love it. Great fun. It was like being a kid again. But there's no way in hell it's going to work for your average joe.

Then on the other hand you're sparring in a "kickboxing" style with a coach who (presumably) isn't a kickboxing instructor and hasn't fought kickboxing himself.

I think we'll agree to disagree at this stage.

Your incorrect on both counts above.

There's nothing fantasy about knife or even choke attacks. They are real and they happen everyday. I never mentioned anything about carjackings, never really heard of em happening here, seen em on Boys N D Hood and movies like that tho.

My instructor has many years of kickboxing experience inc overseas competition experience, so I'm afraid your incorrect on that one too.

As I said before we'll agree to disagree and if you got the time Monday come down and train with us for the day, I'll even pay the €30 fee for you .......

First Aid Ireland · 06-04-2012 7:26pm

ShadowFax wrote: »

I think we'll agree to disagree at this stage.

Your incorrect on both counts above.

There's nothing fantasy about knife or even choke attacks. They are real and they happen everyday. I never mentioned anything about carjackings, never really heard of em happening here, seen em on Boys N D Hood and movies like that tho.

My instructor has many years of kickboxing experience inc overseas competition experience, so I'm afraid your incorrect on that one too.

As I said before we'll agree to disagree. As I said before, if you got the time Monday come down and train with us for the day, I'll even pay the €30 fee for you .......

Patently I didn't mean that knifings etc are fantasy. But in my opinion the KM defences against them are fantasy.

if your coach is a kickboxer and is teaching kickboxing in his KM club, that's great. It's not KM though, and that's a different issue altogether. In this case you learn KM techniques, and then you do some kickboxing.

ShadowFax · 06-04-2012 7:33pm

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

Patently I didn't mean that knifings etc are fantasy. But in my opinion the KM defences against them are fantasy.

if your coach is a kickboxer and is teaching kickboxing in his KM club, that's great. It's not KM though, and that's a different issue altogether. In this case you learn KM techniques, and then you do some kickboxing.

Listen FAI, you can twist around everything I say .... and say this and that is Fantasy ... so I'll extend the offer one more time, I'll pay your €30 fee to come down Monday and spend the day with us and show you what we do .....

But please don't judge what I do, based on the two years experience you had with a fitness instructor.

Thanks again for all your input into the thread.
PM me if you want to attend the seminar.

paxo · 07-04-2012 4:52am

My 2c worth
Krav Maga was developed by Imi Sde Or in order to defend himself and other Jewish people from attack by anti semitic /Nazis in Bratislava in the 1930,s It was based on boxing, wrestling and police defensive tactics. He later moved to Palestine in 1940 and taught his krav maga to the Haganah, later the IDF. He subsequently developed a civilian form of Krav in 1968.

Krav Maga was designed to respond to threats by
Counter attacking as soon as possible (or attacking preemptively).
Targeting attacks to the body's most vulnerable points
Neutralizing the opponent as quickly as possible by responding with an unbroken stream of counter attacks
Maintaining awareness of surroundings while dealing with the threat in order to look for escape routes, further attackers, objects that could be used to defend or help attack and so on. In general its techniques are broadly similar to boxing, karate, ju jitsu etc

IMHO it has many good points as a combative system.
Its basic techniques e.g. 360 degree blocks are the foundation for its advanced techniques.
Overall its techniques are pretty simple and no more than 2-3 moves are used to address an attack.
Training may take place in a variety of different setting e.g. park, beach, car parks, or in darkened halls or outside at night.
The use of specific drills i.e zombie drills to put students under pressure

However like any system it has in my opinion some deficits.
There is no training in verbal defusing,
the training is not instinctive i.e bursting as a response to a knife or stick attack may be effective but it is not instinctive.
Some of the knife defences which require the defender to punch across his body do not work from a bio mechanical perspective
300 plus techniques are not necessary to defend yourself against most common street attacks
In some schools there is a fight at all costs mentality, not every street attacker wants to kill you,

Like any fighting system either sporting or self defence orientated if it is taught in a realistic manner by a good instructor it will do what it says on the box.

DB888 · 07-04-2012 1:00pm

'' -We will also show you how to strike properly causing maximum damage to your attacker whilst minimum damage to yourself.''

Is this shown in the one day?The way its phrased it seems as if proper striking is something that is a secret and very simple,but will be revealed on the day?
All fantasy imho

Andrew H · 07-04-2012 1:28pm

If a beginner learns how to punch properly in one day I would be suprised. Never mind any of the other outrageous claims.

Go to any well run Kung Fu Club (that teaches Sanda/Sanshou), Karate Club (that teaches full contact), Boxing, Kick-Boxing or Muay Thai club and it will take you a lot longer then one day to "master" how to punch properly.

To learn how to defend yourself against a choke go to any Submission Wrestling or BJJ club and again see how long it takes.

IMO it is completely false advertising.

Dermighty · 07-04-2012 7:56pm

A 1 day course should only take place to introduce people to regular training at your club.

The idea that someone with no history of fighting can do a course for one day and get anything other than general knowledge from it is ridiculous.

gonko · 08-04-2012 6:45am

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

Thanks Shadowfax.

I don't think any martial art/defence system promotes violence as the first option. But the issue is effectiveness when that happens. My own very humble opinion is that KM is like a footballer training by just running around a few cones, or by taking penalties, or by just practicing little individual skills with his mate. He'd develop some nice skills to showcase, but he wouldn't be very effective in a football match.

I'm no expert in fighting or martial arts at all. In fact I'd be quite the opposite. But I think the comment above about how no KM techniques have been brought into the MMA ring is very telling. While I think the amount of confidence people have in MMA can be a little overboard, it's a system that's good at taking the useful stuff and getting rid of the rest.

I have seen Krav Maga in action and have trained along side some KM players. And I myself train in Silat. The reason you dont see these styles cross into MMA is because they are banned from it. KM just like Silat is a self defense. It is not a sport like MMA. In Silat we aim to have the confrontation ended in seconds if possible. And using literally whatever means to do so. I know for a fact what I do in silat I could not carry into an MMA ring (apart from the muay thai striking) if i was into cage fighting. It would end up in serious injuries or worse for my opponent. The mindset would be - he is trying to hit me or knock me out, whereas I would be looking to damage or destroy any body part that I can get to. See the difference. Just because it is not present in an MMA ring doesnt mean its crap. There are alot of limits on what you can do to someone in an MMA ring also when compared to a self defense art/style. I love watching cage fighting on TV and always try to watch UFC when its on. But there is a big difference between defense arts and sport orientated styles or arts.
PS I have huge respect for MMA guys and their training and fitness is top notch. So before anyone thinks I am MMA bashing I am most certainly not.

boxer.fan · 08-04-2012 10:40am

Thanks Gonko,

by the sounds of that we wont be needing Batman anymore now that we have "KM players" on the streets.

peteclarke · 08-04-2012 10:42am

Good thing for Jon jones that gonko is sticking to Silat.
I'd say he was bricking it you were gonna destroy some of his body parts.

First Aid Ireland · 08-04-2012 1:22pm

gonko wrote: »

I have seen Krav Maga in action and have trained along side some KM players. And I myself train in Silat. The reason you dont see these styles cross into MMA is because they are banned from it. KM just like Silat is a self defense. It is not a sport like MMA. In Silat we aim to have the confrontation ended in seconds if possible. And using literally whatever means to do so. I know for a fact what I do in silat I could not carry into an MMA ring (apart from the muay thai striking) if i was into cage fighting. It would end up in serious injuries or worse for my opponent. The mindset would be - he is trying to hit me or knock me out, whereas I would be looking to damage or destroy any body part that I can get to. See the difference. Just because it is not present in an MMA ring doesnt mean its crap. There are alot of limits on what you can do to someone in an MMA ring also when compared to a self defense art/style. I love watching cage fighting on TV and always try to watch UFC when its on. But there is a big difference between defense arts and sport orientated styles or arts.
PS I have huge respect for MMA guys and their training and fitness is top notch. So before anyone thinks I am MMA bashing I am most certainly not.

The only thing i can remember in KM that would be illegal in an MMA ring is the nut-kicking. And there's a lot of that!

Some of the techniques involved the odd headbutt, too. But I never learned how to eye gouge or bite.

I'm far from a KM expert. But the vast majority of stuff I learned in training would be legal in an MMA ring.

gonko · 08-04-2012 6:11pm

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

gonko wrote: »

I have seen Krav Maga in action and have trained along side some KM players. And I myself train in Silat. The reason you dont see these styles cross into MMA is because they are banned from it. KM just like Silat is a self defense. It is not a sport like MMA. In Silat we aim to have the confrontation ended in seconds if possible. And using literally whatever means to do so. I know for a fact what I do in silat I could not carry into an MMA ring (apart from the muay thai striking) if i was into cage fighting. It would end up in serious injuries or worse for my opponent. The mindset would be - he is trying to hit me or knock me out, whereas I would be looking to damage or destroy any body part that I can get to. See the difference. Just because it is not present in an MMA ring doesnt mean its crap. There are alot of limits on what you can do to someone in an MMA ring also when compared to a self defense art/style. I love watching cage fighting on TV and always try to watch UFC when its on. But there is a big difference between defense arts and sport orientated styles or arts.
PS I have huge respect for MMA guys and their training and fitness is top notch. So before anyone thinks I am MMA bashing I am most certainly not.

The only thing i can remember in KM that would be illegal in an MMA ring is the nut-kicking. And there's a lot of that!

Some of the techniques involved the odd headbutt, too. But I never learned how to eye gouge or bite.

I'm far from a KM expert. But the vast majority of stuff I learned in training would be legal in an MMA ring.

Well the KM i seen was not MMA friendly. You will always have poor instructors and maybe this was the case. The replies after me about batman and some other guy. I will say that on this boards people are very very close minded. The majority on here believe MMA is the baddest thing out there and that for any style to be effective it needs to be compared to MMA. Its like comparing a gun to a knife. MMA is a "sport" and has "rules". Eye gouging and nut shots are just 2 of the extreme options. There are more than this. But i wont say or try to convince anyone as we seem to be upsetting some mma fans on here lol.

Socialist_Pig · 08-04-2012 7:22pm

I love Krav Maga threads:D

**This is not a forum for making political statements** - Makikomi.

First Aid Ireland · 08-04-2012 7:29pm

gonko wrote: »

Well the KM i seen was not MMA friendly. You will always have poor instructors and maybe this was the case. The replies after me about batman and some other guy. I will say that on this boards people are very very close minded. The majority on here believe MMA is the baddest thing out there and that for any style to be effective it needs to be compared to MMA. Its like comparing a gun to a knife. MMA is a "sport" and has "rules". Eye gouging and nut shots are just 2 of the extreme options. There are more than this. But i wont say or try to convince anyone as we seem to be upsetting some mma fans on here lol.

I'm not trying to have a go or be argumentative. But my own experience of KM were that, aside from the nut shots, there wasn't much else that would be illegal in KM. There was some hairpulling or headbutting, but I never did much of that. Mostly it was stuff that you could use in MMA if it were effective.

peteclarke · 08-04-2012 8:14pm

If only Makkiomi had have gone through with his dream to join the Israeli Army, that could have been him in the video.

gonko · 08-04-2012 8:36pm

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

gonko wrote: »

Well the KM i seen was not MMA friendly. You will always have poor instructors and maybe this was the case. The replies after me about batman and some other guy. I will say that on this boards people are very very close minded. The majority on here believe MMA is the baddest thing out there and that for any style to be effective it needs to be compared to MMA. Its like comparing a gun to a knife. MMA is a "sport" and has "rules". Eye gouging and nut shots are just 2 of the extreme options. There are more than this. But i wont say or try to convince anyone as we seem to be upsetting some mma fans on here lol.

I'm not trying to have a go or be argumentative. But my own experience of KM were that, aside from the nut shots, there wasn't much else that would be illegal in KM. There was some hairpulling or headbutting, but I never did much of that. Mostly it was stuff that you could use in MMA if it were effective.

I appreciate what you are saying. The Krav Maga i have seen was alot different from what you are describing.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 09-04-2012 10:37am

peteclarke wrote: »

If only Makkiomi had have gone through with his dream to join the Israeli Army, that could have been him in the video.

And you, stop being a smart alek.

If you post in this thread again you'll be banned from the forum.

First Aid Ireland · 09-04-2012 7:49pm

gonko wrote: »

I appreciate what you are saying. The Krav Maga i have seen was alot different from what you are describing.

I can take that point, if there's some kind of KM out there that I haven't come across then fair enough.

Is there anything on youtube showing the effective but not allowable in MMA stuff that you mean?

Ddad · 10-04-2012 12:39am

The elbow strikes are also illegal, I believe.

For the most part though I agree with FAI. I popped my knee in training recently so had to sit out the class (KM) which involved sitting watching the gloved sparring at the end. Twas like a sea of windmills. Most of the lads in the class would be fecked in a real fight.

I do beleive KM would be very effective in a fight if you were proficient. To be honest I've only seen a handful of lads who were though and most had alternative MA backgrounds so had the groundwork done. Of course some of the israeli lads are machines! They're doing it 20 years though.

I've done the weekend course a long time ago and it was great fun and generated an interest for me but it really wasn't going to help me much in a situation. You don't get muscle memory overnight.

Having said that as FAI said KM is great craic. We have a decent cohort of lads in the club and the workout is great. Sweating like a pig after the warmup let alone the rest of the class. I also agree that it is a money racket in many cases but I've done some really informative additional seminars through my club that I was happy with. It's also given me the confidence to attend seminars outside KM in other diciplines which were brilliant and very welcoming.

gonko · 10-04-2012 3:58pm

Ddad wrote: »

The elbow strikes are also illegal, I believe.

For the most part though I agree with FAI. I popped my knee in training recently so had to sit out the class (KM) which involved sitting watching the gloved sparring at the end. Twas like a sea of windmills. Most of the lads in the class would be fecked in a real fight.

I do beleive KM would be very effective in a fight if you were proficient. To be honest I've only seen a handful of lads who were though and most had alternative MA backgrounds so had the groundwork done. Of course some of the israeli lads are machines! They're doing it 20 years though.

I've done the weekend course a long time ago and it was great fun and generated an interest for me but it really wasn't going to help me much in a situation. You don't get muscle memory overnight.

Having said that as FAI said KM is great craic. We have a decent cohort of lads in the club and the workout is great. Sweating like a pig after the warmup let alone the rest of the class. I also agree that it is a money racket in many cases but I've done some really informative additional seminars through my club that I was happy with. It's also given me the confidence to attend seminars outside KM in other diciplines which were brilliant and very welcoming.

If you say the gloved sparring was like windmills then perhaps these lads are not trained correct. In a pressure siuation alterations creep in and non advanced guys can look messy. Its tye same in all styles. This being said as far as i knew there was only one properly qualified KM commando who teaches and he was located in Galway. There is KM clubs popping up all over the shop lately so maybe question their authenticity to tye results you see. If you still believe you would be fecked in a real situation then my only advice is pick another style that will serve to protect you.

paxo · 12-04-2012 8:34am

gonko wrote: »

Well the KM i seen was not MMA friendly. You will always have poor instructors and maybe this was the case. The replies after me about batman and some other guy. I will say that on this boards people are very very close minded. The majority on here believe MMA is the baddest thing out there and that for any style to be effective it needs to be compared to MMA. Its like comparing a gun to a knife. MMA is a "sport" and has "rules". Eye gouging and nut shots are just 2 of the extreme options. There are more than this. But i wont say or try to convince anyone as we seem to be upsetting some mma fans on here lol.

Krav Maga was developed from Imi's experience in boxing, wrestling and police restraint and control techniques that he learned from his father. In my opinion it is not that different to the techniques used in MMA or other martial arts systems.

MMA fighters use their techniques to fight against another MMA fighter in a sporting contest. KM students train in similar techniques to prepare for an assault situation that may involve weapons and multiple attackers

For me the main difference is that MMA fighters get to test their abilities through sparing and contests. KM students will not know for sure if their training works until they are unlucky enough to find themselves a victim of an assault.

In regard to non sporting techniques such as eye gouging and nut shots, both eye gouging and low blows are not unknown in boxing however they are difficult techniques to train realistically and are not necessarily fight stoppers
Paxo

gonko · 19-04-2012 1:28am

paxo wrote: »

Krav Maga was developed from Imi's experience in boxing, wrestling and police restraint and control techniques that he learned from his father. In my opinion it is not that different to the techniques used in MMA or other martial arts systems.

MMA fighters use their techniques to fight against another MMA fighter in a sporting contest. KM students train in similar techniques to prepare for an assault situation that may involve weapons and multiple attackers

For me the main difference is that MMA fighters get to test their abilities through sparing and contests. KM students will not know for sure if their training works until they are unlucky enough to find themselves a victim of an assault.

In regard to non sporting techniques such as eye gouging and nut shots, both eye gouging and low blows are not unknown in boxing however they are difficult techniques to train realistically and are not necessarily fight stoppers
Paxo

MMA fighters will be pressure tested more often, more frequently. People who do self defense orientated styles, practise and practise and practise until perfection is achieved. Then we pressure test against a real live opponent at full speed. If the technique at this point fails, we go back and practise until it does work. I cannot speak for KM but in my silat training this is what we do. MMA is geared for competition therefore it is expected the focus of training is alot of sparring. With self defense the goal needs to be an instant result. Thats why we train differently. We spar when we have learned properly the techniques and mastered control and speed over it, and to a point where we are almost guaranteed a result, and if not be adaptable enough to spring into something else. To suggest that KM fighters or other self defense style fighters are not pressure tested to the extent of MMA guys is crazy. I can assure you we are and I have the bruises to prove it. It is just done in different ways and to meet different goals. And the sparring itself is completely different too.
Link below to see a toned down version of silat in competition. But look at the movement of the fighter. Almost inviting the opponent into his space. It is very unorthadox but effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShoJVkFvVbM

paxo · 19-04-2012 10:39am

Gonko
I have no experience of Silat so I can not comment on the effectiveness of its training methodology or of its techniques.

However I have had experience of Krav Maga and it does not pressure test against a real live opponent at full speed. However it does utilise drills that are designed to put the participant under pressure both mental and physical pressure and that on occasions simulate a fight situation. It is a simulation in which the participants understand that they will not get hurt apart from some bruises.

I do not think that MMA is the baddest thing on the planet but I do think that its approach in common with other fighting sports is more honest

The attached clip was interesting to me, in that apart from the initial stances the techniques utilised appeared to be no differert from those used in any MMA bout

gonko · 19-04-2012 11:07am

paxo wrote: »

Gonko
I have no experience of Silat so I can not comment on the effectiveness of its training methodology or of its techniques.

However I have had experience of Krav Maga and it does not pressure test against a real live opponent at full speed. However it does utilise drills that are designed to put the participant under pressure both mental and physical pressure and that on occasions simulate a fight situation. It is a simulation in which the participants understand that they will not get hurt apart from some bruises.

I do not think that MMA is the baddest thing on the planet but I do think that its approach in common with other fighting sports is more honest

The attached clip was interesting to me, in that apart from the initial stances the techniques utilised appeared to be no differert from those used in any MMA bout

Correct it was a much toned down version of silat in order to make it ring legal. But you can see from the clip how unorthadox the style is. I agree to most other styles mma is more honest .....but i also said most. It depends on how the art is taught. i agree with your points otherwise. As for KM or any style for that matter, if its not pressure tested then its effectiveness and your learning as a student can not be measured. I have huge respect for mma guys. They are always in great shape and are very good at what they do. So i am not mma basging. Just pointing out the main differences i guess.

Doug Cartel · 19-04-2012 10:04pm

There's not much you can conclude from that video beyond that both of those fighters are pretty crap, and after all their fancy stepping and shape throwing, a sloppy guillotine choke was what ended the fight.

Naos · 20-04-2012 12:36pm

gonko wrote: »

ts like comparing a gun to a knife. MMA is a "sport" and has "rules". Eye gouging and nut shots are just 2 of the extreme options. There are more than this. But i wont say or try to convince anyone as we seem to be upsetting some mma fans on here lol.

Gonko, I'm not trying to be smart but I'm fairly certain that any MMAer knows how to eye gouge or give a nut shot - these are not moves only available to a KMer.

gonko wrote: »

Link below to see a toned down version of silat in competition. But look at the movement of the fighter. Almost inviting the opponent into his space. It is very unorthadox but effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShoJVkFvVbM

I would love to see Cowzer take one of them on. These lads were quite sloppy, couldn't throw a punch and wouldn't last a round with someone who trains regularly in MMA.

I'm not a fan of KM due to its money-hungry nature (and considering this I'm surprised why there are not lads trained in KM competiting in the likes of the UFC with potential for +$1mil per fight) + false confidence it generates in people, as stated earlier by FAI.

gonko · 20-04-2012 4:46pm

Naos wrote: »

gonko wrote: »

ts like comparing a gun to a knife. MMA is a "sport" and has "rules". Eye gouging and nut shots are just 2 of the extreme options. There are more than this. But i wont say or try to convince anyone as we seem to be upsetting some mma fans on here lol.

Gonko, I'm not trying to be smart but I'm fairly certain that any MMAer knows how to eye gouge or give a nut shot - these are not moves only available to a KMer.

gonko wrote: »

Link below to see a toned down version of silat in competition. But look at the movement of the fighter. Almost inviting the opponent into his space. It is very unorthadox but effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShoJVkFvVbM

I would love to see Cowzer take one of them on. These lads were quite sloppy, couldn't throw a punch and wouldn't last a round with someone who trains regularly in MMA.

I'm not a fan of KM due to its money-hungry nature (and considering this I'm surprised why there are not lads trained in KM competiting in the likes of the UFC with potential for +$1mil per fight) + false confidence it generates in people, as stated earlier by FAI.

Why do you benchmark a style against MMA. Why does everything have to stack up against this sport? If you think the fighters in my vid was sloppy....look closer. One guy was sloppy. The other exploited every opportunity he got. I dont judge any particular style on its effectiveness against MMA. To me MMA is a sport. A little kickboxing with some jiu jitsu thrown in. Nothing so special in fairness. To be blunt....anyone trained properly in any good traditional martial art would make piss of an MMA fighter. And thats the facts. MMA fighters are trained to compete over a few rounds. Traditional martial artists train to literally maime someone in seconds . You cannot compare a sport with a martial art. They are 2 different things and will achieve different outcomes.

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