NON-Sky Digital Experience Setup

watty · 29-01-2004 11:31am #1

I'm interested about your experinces of DIGITAL Satellite without a Digibox
(No Analog, No Digibox, no Sky+)

I'd say there are these categories:

1) Dish/Satellite/LNB part:
a) Fixed Single LNB.
(Mostly FTA Sky 28.2, but what others?)

b) 2 or 4 Way Diseq.
(2, 3 or 4 LNBs / Satellites on one receiver via a remote Diseqc switch)

c) Motorised.
(Basic 1.2 Diseq Motor, Jack actuated or 36V motor)

2) Receiver type (The bit that connects to LNB), NO SUBSCRIPTION
a) FTA or no card
b) PC based basic card (no DSP Chip, no media bridge TV out built in)
c) PC High end Card (DSP and TV out built in)

3)Receiver Type WITH CAM and Legitimate card/Subscription
a) Receiver with legitimate NON-Sky viewing card / CAM (Which operator(s)?)
b) PC Card with legitimate NON-Sky viewing card / CAM (Which operator(s)?)
(out of area subscription counts a legitimate, i.e. not a pirate card with HEX codes)
(Unoffical CAM or "Soft CAM" counts as legitimate, if it works your "real" viewing card)

Can I have your opinions and experiences for my research?

My web site is over 4 years old! I need to write a new one!

watty · 29-01-2004 2:05pm

Ah com'on folks give an opinion on vote even if you have no non-Sky experience to report...

And I look forward to folks experience if even.. "I got it installed and now watch BBC"

eoinm1 · 29-01-2004 2:38pm

Hi LurkingIcon

I use a Grundig (310 Sliver DB i think not sure of model) Digibox with a FTV London Card. I have no Sky Sub and i see no reason to get one.

I have just last week bought a second Grundig Bigibox which i will set up an other room. Just need to get a quad LNB.

Eóin

Mike 1972 · 29-01-2004 2:44pm

Dont know if I fit into this category
I live in NI and have a Panasonic Sky Digibox but I have never subscribed to $ky I have a P2 (BBC solus) FTV card (Id have bought an ordinary FTA box instead but I wanted Channels 4 & 5) For some reason I can only get ITV and C4/5 via "other channels" and BBC London is on 101/102 (BBC NI is stuck up in the 900's somewhere)

My dish is an 80cm one from a LidL analouge reciever however it has been modified (second LNB added) and a two way manual LNB switch indoors

The dish is pointed at Hotbird (13deg East) with the second LNB picking up Astra 2

To be honest though I had a bit of trouble finding a dual LNB mount that could cope with such a wide (over 15 degree) spacing and setting up for a decent signal off astra is a lot of hasstle and it needs to be retweaked occasionally

If I was starting over Id buy a second dish (60cm dish for Astra2) dual LNB setups are fine for 6 degree spacings (eg Hotbird and Astra 1) but as the spacings between satellites get larger it becomes more trouble than its worth

Also some people maintain you dont need a signal meter as there is one on the digibox menu but to be honest It makes life a lot easier if you have one sine the digibox one is poorly designed and a real pain to use

My "tripod" consists of a large outdoor plant pot with one of those outdoor circular clothes driers sitting upside down in it and the whole thing filled with cement !
Sounds brutal but it works

sceptre · 29-01-2004 4:19pm

Wasn't too sure what category the "I have a Sky sub and an FTV card but I'm not too pushed other than that" person would fall into so I voted for "NO interest outside of Sky Pay TV Package".

Lack of space (dish is in my bathroom as Limerick city council are half interested in keeping the facades on their Georgian buildings free of nasty dishes) means that pointing a dish to somewhere else as well as 28.2 would be relatively tricky.

watty · 29-01-2004 4:58pm

You have my sympathy sceptre, and are welcome to see my set up if you are passing out to Adare or turning off here for Cork.

It's the house with NO visible dishes, apart from MMDS style, but the spikyest collection aerials on Chimney you ever saw...

(The dishes are all at back of garden).

shinobi · 30-01-2004 11:28am

Hi LurkingIcon,

I've only gos $KY digital ATM. I would be interested in looking into FTA channels on other satellites.
Slightly OT but I'd really appreciate it if you could PM me with some info/direction towards satellite broadband....as I'm sure if anyone knows about it.....

Thanks...

Zaphod · 30-01-2004 2:13pm

Our current main setup is a 2.4M Channel Master driven by a 36 inch linear actuator; a C/Ku-Band Astrotel corotor LNB; an analogue/digital AD3000IP Echostar receiver which is the main 'workhorse'; playing around with a recently acquired (50pence + postage = 3 cheers for eBay!) Echostar LT-8700 analogue receiver.

For decrypting channels and 4:2:2, a Skystar 2 (courtesy of Netsystem) and a secondhand Broadlogic 2030.

A Technomate FTA digital receiver is fixed for BBC reception from 28E.

Mike 1972 · 31-01-2004 12:19am

I've only gos $KY digital ATM. I would be interested in looking into FTA channels on other satellites

Best plan is to get a second dish (80cm) with LNB and a manual LNB switch

Then you can recieve most FTV channels (via the add channels/other channels menu) from several satellites the most interesting being Astra 1 (19 Deg E 0001) and Hotbird (13 Deg E 013e)

byte · 31-01-2004 7:58pm

I have Sky with UK sub using standard Zone2 minidish and Panasonic DSB31.

And then I have 80cm Triax dish with 2 LNBs (Astra and Hotbird, though currently Hotbird is not being received) via a 4way DiSEqC switch (thanks Tony) connected to my Manhattan Skyline 3000 receiver, and then looped through to my PC using a SkyStar 2 DVB card (thanks to Netsystem and EON).

I have this week finally got a null modem cable (€5 from Donberg, thanks to whoever mentioned it a few weeks ago) to update the software on the Manhattan which I must get around to. The main reason I need to update the software is that teh newer releases fix widescreen switching problems.

Now I must try fixing the reception of Hotbird, and hopefully a makeshift bracket to receive 28E too

On that note, I have the dish focused on Astra 1 with Hotbird offset. Any bird other than Astra 2 thats worth receiving with a 3rd LNB?

TIA

Mr.M · 31-01-2004 8:10pm

you should have a go at 16e m8 and be on the lookout for Top Channel it's FTA and it shows prem 3pm games and 2pm box office games aswell only problem is i'm not 100% sure if an 80cm dish would be sufficient

watty · 02-02-2004 10:54am

Getting "Top Channel" grand on motorised without fine tuned alignment (Too darned wet and gales on Saturday!), 80cm/90cm eliptical dish from Lidl (with analog set) about 18mths ago, possibly.

MTI 0.6dB Dual o/p LNB and Palcom DS4

I only watch Figure Skating, never people kicking balls though.

watty · 03-02-2004 12:39pm

Zaphod's is definately an Enthusists system!

Any comments on getting the transponders programmed in?

* Menu entry?
* over the Air download from Satellite
* Success or failure to use Network Search (Which transponder / Satellites work?)
* PC edit and serial cable / RS232 connection

Where do you get lists e.g. Lyngsat, SatcoDx etc?
Are any as data/text files rather than the normal Web page listings?

Smeagol · 03-02-2004 8:34pm

Well, at the moment my sat. equipment consists of the following:
1 Humax 5400
1 Lemon 01CI
1 Nokia 9200/9500 (D-Box1) mostly for 4:2:2 recording and for other DXing
1 Nokia D-Box2 with Neutrino + Premiere Start subsciption, came in a package deal with the box.
1 Grundig Digibox for FTV
1 Medion DFA 203 for BBC FTA
Various 60 and 90 cm dishes
and of course my 180cm ChannelMaster with Linear actuator, but no C-Band LNB, unfortunatly. Working between 42°e and 45°w.
I, as a german alien here in the land of the 40 shades of spruce;) , was very suprised how little aware the people over here are of the huge choice out there. Sky is all you hear, very sad. But ok, I hail from the paradies of satellite reception with over 30 german speaking FTA channels on Astra1 alone. Just to find out that even RTÉ and TV3 are on the Sky platform, and that you have to get a subsciption (family pack, is it) to watch them on digital.
Now I'm gonna watch my team reach the semi-final of the german cup, for free, no card involved on Astra1,analouge or digital, or should I choose HotBird, just for the fun of it?
Good luck
Smeagol

kaisersose77 · 03-02-2004 8:45pm

Im just a newbie to the sat scene. At the moment i have:
Dreambox 7000s
Skystar 2 pci card
Superjack dg120 motor
And the lidl analogue setup from the summer( thats the first time i ever bought anything sat related)

byte · 03-02-2004 11:08pm

Originally posted by kaisersose77
Im just a newbie to the sat scene. At the moment i have:
Dreambox 7000s
Skystar 2 pci card
Superjack dg120 motor
And the lidl analogue setup from the summer( thats the first time i ever bought anything sat related)

Out of curiousity, what's the Dreambox like to use? I've never had the fortune to get messing with one!

kaisersose77 · 03-02-2004 11:18pm

just got if on friday, but im very impressed so far, havent got a harddrive yet but will do eventually. Its more of a toy than a satellite receiver! With a HD u can install a web browser and then surf the net from what i have read, was listening to streaming internet radio stations on it earlier. I would only recommend it to someone with who's good with computers, as u have to ftp stuff on and use null modem cables etc. I've heard theres meant to be a new version coming out soon( rumours that it will have 2 tuners and a dvd burner), i ordered it for 339 euros and its already gone done to 324 on the site i mentioned. Not bad considering rip off uk sites are selling it for 309 sterling.

maisflocke · 04-02-2004 8:40am

@ Smeagol....

The Humax 5400 has, afaik, OpenTV middleware.

Can you use the BBCi interactive red button facilities on this receiver?? or is it a case of a different version of OpenTV middleware???

watty · 04-02-2004 10:43am

AFAIK the Sky implementation of "OpenTV" ironically is not "open". It is proprietary version based on OpenTV.

But if anyone, anywhere has a non-Digibox that does the SkyNews Interactive, QVC interactive or BBC Interactive this is important to know.

On Usenet alt.satellitetv.europe there never has been any suggestion that anything other than Digibox works.

Anyone know which box(es) work the MHP (Multimedia Home Platform?) system. I see at least one channel with it on 19.2 with onscreen picture of a remote too.

The channel is called "<something> MHP test"

I started with a Digibox and a home made 3 way LNB switch (at dish) and 3 LNBs on old Sky Analog 80cm dish. The home-made switch was two SPCO minature 12V relays inside a cable TV splitter/tap box (3 F connectors one side and one on the other).

I used Digibox SCART "RGB enable" and "Scart on" pins (8 & 12?) on TV out of Digibox so the Digibox picture setup menu would change between the LNBs:
Scart OFF = Astra 28.2 (RGB setting ignored and is off)
Scart ON, RGB off = Hotbird 13E
Scart On, RGB ON = Astra 19E

I got fed up with Digibox hanging, lack of channel store space (only 20 out of 50 possible slots reliable) and not able to get CSpan and some other Hotbird channels not on SR 27500 or 22000.

So I got a "High End" PC card (Hauppauge WinTV PCI, now replaced by Nexus) and a "Global" brand 4-way diseqc switch at dish. It has had various SW upgrades from www.technotrend.de who make most of the "basic" cards (no DSP chip, no built in TV out, no built in IR in, no CAM board header) and the "High End" or "Premium" cards (DSP for MPEG2 view or playback, real TV out built in, real hiFi analog and Digital Audio outputs, IR port in, CAM header, Media Bridge chip).

I had 3 LNBs on one dish (done same as orignal for Digibox, which I kept and put analog receivers on the 13E and 19E) and a 4th LNB on a 1m dish on a MANUAL polar mount, i.e. you loosen bolt and dish swings east/west without need for LNB skew or elevation (up/down) adjustment. It got all the likely satellites between 30W and 42E.

Recently I added a Palcom DSL4 and a GOTO X diseqc Motor with a 90cm dish and dual o/p MTI blueline 0.6dB LNB (lower NF is pointless). It was very, very windy so I have not fine tuned the alignment, so far I have 12 satellites stored on it. I expect to add a few more when I can get out and fine tune alignment and limits.

I think the "theoretical" limit here is about 24 Ku Band out of perhaps 40 "visible" in the sky (not all have beams that remotely point this way, some are C Band). I'm not sure exactly how many are possible here in Limerick on 90cm, a few have beams that look possible say in Dundalk or Edinburgh, but unlikely even on big dish in South West.

A 1.2m dish would be better, but wind load on exposed site is problem (I have no south facing wall to help shelter a dish, it has to be on tall pole at bottom of garden to get any eastern as much as TurkSat).

Also most disqec motors are only really for 90cm, they all list 1.2m, but urge caution, carefull balance of center of gravity (counter weight at back?) and a "light weight" aluminium. The Fibreglass 1m dish I have is really heavy. It has a very heavy steel mount brackets at back.

Soon I will count how many channels have all english, some english, sometimes English subtitles (Polish TV quite often on-screen, Why?), Music, Sport (don't really need English) and such of interest to us mono-lingual folks!

maisflocke · 04-02-2004 11:33am

Watty,

the MHP Multimedia Home Platform system is supposed to be a an OpenTV replacement in Germany, agreed upon by the major broadcasters as the German "standard" for interactive tv.

ARD & ZDF ceased OpenTV services at the end of 2003, and are now concentrating on the application of MHP.
Premiere World, on the other hand, has done a U-turn on its agreement and has currently put interactive TV on hold until they find a time they consider fit to introduce MHP.

It would however appear that MHP are in danger of being another OpenTV miscarriage because German broadcasters generally tend to think everything will go like clock-work from the word go. The thing they seem to forget is the fact that only *they* can plug the service they provide and make the viewer aware that there is an interactive facility.
The result is an interactive service with no users. No users means wasted money. Wasted money closes the service and the broadcasters wonder why nobody was interested.
If they could only take their fingers out of where the sun don't shine and cop-on to the fact that they themselves need to create an awareness of the product they have then I am sure things would be different.

Receivers are available, but nobody is interested in an overpriced unit that has something dodgy called MHP - some people already burnt their fingers and bought OpenTV receivers..... and now there is no broadcaster using the application!

Receivers with MHP......

Fujitsu-Siemens Activy 200/320/350
Humax CI-8140, €350
Nokia Mediamaster 310 S, €270
Panasonic TU-MFS 100, €459
Philips DSR 5600, €480 Euro
Samsung DTB 9500 F/SB A500N
Sony KD-32 NS 100, €4000 !!!

Source http://www.mhp-forum.de/

watty · 04-02-2004 12:16pm

Thanks for interesting reply mais. I think too that "openTV" was killed outside of Sky by too expensive, too many receivers without it and too many major package provider "proprietary extensions".

I can't see Sky changing from its essentially "closed" version of "Open TV" to and open version of MHP!

Eurorunner · 04-02-2004 12:42pm

Have never had sly sub and never will.

Following setup:

Skystar2 pci card
Golden Interstar DAPCI 8008 Premium receiver
2x Lidl 80cm Dishes/0.6Db Acer LNB's
Will be considering 1x 1m+ dish with a view to picking up sirius2 reception.
Video sender on the way too - so that all channels received on the skystar can be viewed on tvs elsewhere in the house. Whilst the receiver i have isnt bad, i'm not utilising it to full potential as cams/cards/programmers etc are damned expensive. If the video sender works out, may offload the stb alltogether.
Use satcodx for channel lists/frequencies.

Zaphod · 04-02-2004 7:30pm

Originally posted by LurkingIcon

Any comments on getting the transponders programmed in?

Most of the transponders are programmed in by hand. Usually from either Lyngsat or SatcoDX (they vary in how up-to-date they are). Also from Television mag, Tele-satellite, Satkurier.

OTA from satellite wrt Echostar is mostly for software updates, rather than simply transponder info updates, although new transponders may be included with each update. Haven't actually used OTA yet - used laptop and serial cable instead and software from Echostar website - same difference I guess. Reckon it's more reliable though - don't want a hailshower in the middle of an OTA update!

Network search really depends on the satellite in question - some supply the info in the stream, others don't. The odd channel requires all settings (sr, fec, apid, vpid, pcr) entered in full before they appear.

Someone recently I know was trying to scan for Sky News on 28E with a Strong. Couldn't find it, even though BBC, ITV etc were fine. Turns out he was using an FTA scan, and Sky News was tagged as being scrambled in the stream headers.

The Tele-satellite mag provides a quarterly CD-ROM containing the Satcodx info, but it allows you to export it to various formats e.g. .txt, .xls, sdx, sdp, csv, xml, dvb etc. Can use Setedit software to import and upload.

Just came across this site for feeds:
http://www.satelliweb.com/?langue=en

There is a potentially interesting piece of blindsearch software for Skystar1/Technotrend cards on Feedlandia. Pity the zip is password protected for now...
http://feedlandia.no.sapo.pt/feedl.html

byte · 04-02-2004 9:44pm

With regards to SkyStar 2 cards, is there a logical method of scanning for new channels? I'm using DVBviewer V1.4a (it's the only version that works on my PC) but I can't see fit to adding new channels or tp's.

Mike 1972 · 05-02-2004 4:49am

For some reason I can only get ITV and C4/5 via "other channels" and BBC London is on 101/102 (BBC NI is stuck up in the 900's somewhere)

Ive now managed to get a proper NI EPG (with ITV and C4/5) by activating it via POUT

And a months sub is cheaper than buying a new f2V card as well

watty · 05-02-2004 11:54am

Originally posted by byte
With regards to SkyStar 2 cards, is there a logical method of scanning for new channels? I'm using DVBviewer V1.4a (it's the only version that works on my PC) but I can't see fit to adding new channels or tp's.

Mostly you have to add new transponders yourself, unless you get them by a newtork table look up (but on Hotbird, this would only give any Sky Italia channels, if you do it on a Sky italia default transponder!).

Occasionally www.technotrend.de update their driver pack for Premium and Basic cards, this will automatically install new lists (The Haupauge, Siemens and Skystar are I believe made by TechnoTrend Skystar1=Nexus-s=HighEnd, Skystar2=Nova-s=Basic)

Any application "ought" to find new channels on existing transponders, almost all applications will need new transponders added. (Often there is a file for each satellite you can open in Notepad. The layout to add a new transponder at end of list is obvious)

Zaphod · 05-02-2004 3:36pm

Originally posted by Smeagol
Well, at the moment my sat. equipment consists of the following:
1 Nokia 9200/9500 (D-Box1) mostly for 4:2:2 recording and for other DXing

Does that Nokia have blindsearch capability? How long does it take to do a search on Hotbird?

I think I read that the 4:2:2 stuff on the Nokia was by recording via the SCSI and playback on a PC - is that correct? How can you tell if the channel is 4:2:2 in the first instance?

Mr.M · 05-02-2004 4:46pm

Does that Nokia have blindsearch capability? How long does it take to do a search on Hotbird?

no m8 the nokia doesn't do a blind search instead you enter in a frequency for example 11.000 h and it will search for anything thats in that particular range(10.900-11.010 or there abouts) and when it locks onto something you press the search button and your channel will come in mind you the S/R and FEC are never right but you get used of that

I think I read that the 4:2:2 stuff on the Nokia was by recording via the SCSI and playback on a PC - is that correct?

yes thats correct and you can choose whether you want to watch it live or if you want to record it to your hard drive

How can you tell if the channel is 4:2:2 in the first instance?

you will be able to hear the sound perfectly but the picture will be distorted and unrecognisable

byte · 05-02-2004 8:34pm

Originally posted by LurkingIcon
Mostly you have to add new transponders yourself, unless you get them by a newtork table look up (but on Hotbird, this would only give any Sky Italia channels, if you do it on a Sky italia default transponder!).

Occasionally www.technotrend.de update their driver pack for Premium and Basic cards, this will automatically install new lists (The Haupauge, Siemens and Skystar are I believe made by TechnoTrend Skystar1=Nexus-s=HighEnd, Skystar2=Nova-s=Basic)

Any application "ought" to find new channels on existing transponders, almost all applications will need new transponders added. (Often there is a file for each satellite you can open in Notepad. The layout to add a new transponder at end of list is obvious)

Thanks for that. I cannot install new versions of DVB Viewer or any other DVB software due to my hardware restrictions

I must search for the txt you speak of....

The DVBViewer software has Tp edit section but the entries do not correspond with details on Lyngsat properly, and thus doesn't work :dunno:

Greenman · 05-02-2004 10:08pm

Here is my setup.
1 x Grundig 3000 ROI $ky Family Pack (soon to be ditched) just for RTE.
1 x Panasonic 30 no card.
1 x Panasonic 31 with FTV card.
1 x Humax 5300 with Magic Cam.
1 x Superjack positioner.
1 x Triax 110 cm Dish with a motorised actuator 28.2 East to 37 West.
1 x Triax 110 cm Dish with a twin fed LNB.
1 x Triax 90 cm Dish with two LNBs for Astra 19 and Hotbird.
1 x 120 cm Dish for 28.2 East.
1 x Sony Tuner Amp in the livingroom with speakers in every room including bathroom and kitchen.
1 x low power FM transmitter which sends everything out to the garden and work shed.
1 x Sony Tuner Amp upstairs with speakers and a video sender from the downstairs set up.

We have two TVs in the livingroom the wife uses the Humax for her Arabic channels and I use the $ky boxes listening through the speakers and wife listens through a walkman using the low power FM transmitter for the sound.

I've had satellite for 10 years and love it and as another contributor said in the ROI all they seem to know of satellite is $ky!!! I find that sad!!! :mad:

Hope this of some interest.;)

Mr.M · 06-02-2004 12:51am

1 - pace digibox with full sky sub
1 - hyundai 800ci
1 - technomate5000dapci
2 - nokia9600's(one with auto tuner & one standard along with scsi cables,etc)
2 - pace 1008 analogue receivers
1 - gbsat diseqc 1.2 h to h motor
1 - 1m dish(currently in use viewing (45e-45w)
1 - 1.2m dish(hopefully will be pointing at 5e soon)
1 - aston1.05 cam(not being used)
1 - nagra gemplus cam(not being used)
1 - irdeto freecam2.018(not being used)
1 - via black cam(not being used)
1 - axas cam converted to a matrix(the only cam doing anything)

and a mixture of official subs and amtel cards

i'm hoping to get a sky italy official sub in the next week or so and maybe another one or two at the end of the year depending on whats happens on the sat scene

NON-Sky Digital Experience Setup

What kind of Digital Satellite? 47 votes

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