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Android also gathering phone location data

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  • 22-04-2011 9:52am
    #1
    boardswalker
    Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭


    From Wall Street Journal 22 Apr 2011

    In the case of Google, according to new research by security analyst Samy Kamkar, an HTC Android phone collected its location every few seconds and transmitted the data to Google at least several times an hour. It also transmitted the name, location and signal strength of any nearby Wi-Fi networks, as well as a unique phone identifier.

    Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703983704576277101723453610.html#ixzz1KExPGzVB


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    #2
    seanybiker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    I don't go anywhere anyways so it doesn't really bother me. Only thing is that if they did check up on me they would know I'm a boring fooker


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    #3
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Yep, but it doesn't store the info for a full year unencrypted on the device like Apple, the file doesn't get synced with your pc and the info gets overwritten every 12-48 hours
    After a period of time, 12 hours for cellular data and 48 hours for WiFi data, has passed, the location data is renewed by a new request from Google. It is also limited to a maximum number of entries so that the database doesn’t grow too large.

    Swindon says that the location file pulled from his phone contained roughly 13,000 entries related to cellular network tracking. By contrast the Android file is limited to only 50 entries in the cellular location database.

    http://thenextweb.com/google/2011/04/21/its-not-just-the-iphone-android-stores-your-location-data-too/


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    #4
    BionicRasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭BionicRasher


    boardswalker wrote: »
    From Wall Street Journal 22 Apr 2011

    In the case of Google, according to new research by security analyst Samy Kamkar, an HTC Android phone collected its location every few seconds and transmitted the data to Google at least several times an hour. It also transmitted the name, location and signal strength of any nearby Wi-Fi networks, as well as a unique phone identifier.

    Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703983704576277101723453610.html#ixzz1KExPGzVB

    Yes it will collect information but it is on an optional basis - i.e. you can opt out if you want to. I believe that is not the case with the iPhone data collection - they didnt even give you a warning on the fact that they are tracking you.

    Have a look at the Android Privacy policy here http://www.android.com/privacy.html

    When you fire up your Android for the fist time you you’re asked whether you consent to sharing your location anonymously with Google’s location service.

    http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?answer=168578#1089481
    You have a choice


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    #5
    cqms13
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭cqms13


    tui0hcg wrote: »
    Yes it will collect information but it is on an optional basis - i.e. you can opt out if you want to. I believe that is not the case with the iPhone data collection - they didnt even give you a warning on the fact that they are tracking you.

    Have a look at the Android Privacy policy here http://www.android.com/privacy.html

    When you fire up your Android for the fist time you you’re asked whether you consent to sharing your location anonymously with Google’s location service.

    http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?answer=168578#1089481
    You have a choice

    Exactly right - you have a choice with android/google to accept it or not

    Not so with apple....

    what did they plan on doing with this data?


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    #6
    BionicRasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭BionicRasher


    cqms13 wrote: »
    what did they plan on doing with this data?

    To hunt you down and sell you a 'new version' of the same phone you had last year except now its got a 5 on the end instead of a 4


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    #7
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,492 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Yeah, Google are bastards. When I check the option "Use My Location" so they can "use my location for Google search results and other Google services", they then USE MY LOCATION!!! The horror!!!!

    Such a total non-story. The security "researcher" saw a chance to make the news in light of the iPhone story and ran with it

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    #8
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Interestingly, if I disconnect from my wifi Google maps locates me a mile out the road through the phone network, connect and it pinpoints my house. They're obviously using the wifi data they sniffed when they mapped streetview, possibly have the mac address of my router. I opted into this when I got a Google phone, its my choice, I don't mind and the wifi sniffing is not getting any information someone outside with a laptop couldn't get in a few seconds.

    I've a cunning plan to swap routers with a mate and see where it locates me in airplane mode :D


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    #9
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    What everyone is forgetting is that the mobile phone companies can already track every phone in the country anyway by triangulation from the masts.

    In the US selling such info to law enforcement and government departments is big business and thanks to things like the patriot act there are probably more cheques than checks and balances.

    96% of us have mobile phones - and most of those that don't either old or usually based in a fixed location
    http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/people-hang-up-on-land-lines-as-mobile-ownership-hits-96-127259.html
    However, mobile phone ownership remains lower among certain groups, notably those aged 65-74 (82%) and those working in the home (89%).


    The only issue here is people not reading the small print and assuming that Google are and will remain benevolant.

    Android marked lists apps as Free
    there should be two more catogries
    - ad ware , ads use internet access which is NOT free
    check the permissions when installing an app !!!
    it's as bad as facebook apps

    - mapping apps , that retransmit geograhoical data about wifi routes masts etc. without making such data open - there are a LOT of them


    and of course if you really wanted you could prbably install ubuntu on your android (seriously it just depends on finding the right rom)


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    #10
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,492 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    What everyone is forgetting is that the mobile phone companies can already track every phone in the country anyway by triangulation from the masts.
    Something that (in this country anyway) you need a warrant to access
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    In the US selling such info to law enforcement and government departments is big business and thanks to things like the patriot act there are probably more cheques than checks and balances.
    Source?
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    - ad ware , ads use internet access which is NOT free
    For a lot of people, it is free, as they have data plans they're paying for anyway. It's pretty universally understood that smartphones use data, and you need to pay for that. Should all the internet-based applications advertised for PCs as free come with the caveat that you actually need to pay for internet acccess?
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    - mapping apps , that retransmit geograhoical data about wifi routes masts etc. without making such data open - there are a LOT of them
    Why those two sections? What about apps that can send text messages, or ring numbers, or the dozen other important permissions?

    The information in Android is all there, freely available. Anyone installing apps without reading permissions is asking for trouble, and it's their responsibility. These are the same people who fall for the "Click here to download free porn => porn.exe" and wonder why their PC doesn't work anymore

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    #11
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    28064212 wrote: »
    Something that (in this country anyway) you need a warrant to access
    officially, for now, but records are kept

    ( if you want real CT stuff then a flood in 1984 (of all years) is the only technical reason why we couldn't start work on a nation DNA database on everyone born here since 1966 - bit I digress)
    Source?
    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/01/fbi-att-verizon-violated-wiretapping-laws/
    "The FBI’s use of exigent letters became so casual, routine and unsupervised that employees of all three communication service providers told us that they — the company employees– sometimes generated the exigent letters for CAU personnel to sign and return,” the inspector general reported.

    In fact, one AT&T employee even created a short cut on his desktop to a form letter that he could print out for a requesting FBI agent to sign.

    Even that became too much. Agents would request “sneak peeks,” where they’d ask if it was worth their time to file a request on a given phone number, the inspector general noted. The telecom agents complied. Soon it graduated to numbers on Post-it notes, in e-mails or just oral requests.

    For a lot of people, it is free, as they have data plans they're paying for anyway. It's pretty universally understood that smartphones use data, and you need to pay for that. Should all the internet-based applications advertised for PCs as free come with the caveat that you actually need to pay for internet acccess?
    It's only free if you don't exceed your cap.
    As an open source user I've a clear distinction between totally free, and free because we make money off you.
    It would save a lot of reading EULA / T&C for lots of apps that are little more than ad delivery mechanisms with an old public domain / shareware / open source app or copy of such added on.


    Why those two sections? What about apps that can send text messages, or ring numbers, or the dozen other important permissions?

    The information in Android is all there, freely available. Anyone installing apps without reading permissions is asking for trouble, and it's their responsibility. These are the same people who fall for the "Click here to download free porn => porn.exe" and wonder why their PC doesn't work anymore
    yes it would be nicer if apps could be listed that way in the market :)

    I hate having to figure out stuff that has been hidden by marketing droids
    and am a firm believer that contracts should state the minimum cost of the contract over the minimum term , rather than the price during the introductory phase, because not everyone will do that calculation.

    /RANT ;)


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    #12
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,492 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    officially, for now, but records are kept
    Of course they are, and if you're ever victim of a crime where they can be used as prosecution evidence, you'll be glad they were.
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/01/fbi-att-verizon-violated-wiretapping-laws/
    It was more the "selling" part I was querying. The only difference between here and there is that their procedures are laxer due to their hysterical "war on terror". I'm happy that the Gardaí can access mobile phone records. I don't want it as lax as the US, but I believe the facility should be there.
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    It's only free if you don't exceed your cap.
    As an open source user I've a clear distinction between totally free, and free because we make money off you.
    It would save a lot of reading EULA / T&C for lots of apps that are little more than ad delivery mechanisms with an old public domain / shareware / open source app or copy of such added on.
    Any app which requires data is only free if you don't exceed your cap. Hell, any PC application which requires data is only free if you don't exceed your cap. Is iTunes for PC not free because you could go over your home internet cap through Store downloads? What about an app that uses data for functionality, is that free or not?

    And "open source" doesn't have anything to do with whether they make money off you.
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    yes it would be nicer if apps could be listed that way in the market :)

    I hate having to figure out stuff that has been hidden by marketing droids
    As someone who works in IT, I think the user should take a little bit of responsibility. Not a lot, but a bit.

    Android's stuff isn't hidden at all. Everytime you want to download an app, you have to give it permissions, with a clear listing out of what those permissions are. What more do you want?

    And as for the topic at hand: Android's location tracking is completely optional and totally transparent. The iPhone's isn't

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    #13
    jeromeof
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭jeromeof


    28064212 wrote: »
    And as for the topic at hand: Android's location tracking is completely optional and totally transparent. The iPhone's isn't

    I believe the iPhone's mechanism is also optional. Just turn off your location services and it doesn't track data anymore. Details here.

    Also, this is an interesting presentation by a security hacker in december on how is it is to get the location history from Android. Funny these findings didn't make the headlines. http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/Fahrplan/attachments/1781_27c3-android-geolocation.pdf


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    #14
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    There's now a cache checker for android (must be rooted), has the ability to delete too
    http://www.xda-developers.com/android/look-at-what-your-phone-has-been-recording-with-location-cache-viewer-for-android/
    https://market.android.com/details?id=ch.rrelmy.android.locationcachemap&rdid=ch.rrelmy.android.locationcachemap&rdot=1&pli=1


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    #15
    seanybiker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    There's now a cache checker for android (must be rooted), has the ability to delete too
    http://www.xda-developers.com/android/look-at-what-your-phone-has-been-recording-with-location-cache-viewer-for-android/
    https://market.android.com/details?id=ch.rrelmy.android.locationcachemap&rdid=ch.rrelmy.android.locationcachemap&rdot=1&pli=1
    That's actually deadly. It showed all the wifi areas I was definitely in.


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    #16
    bd250110
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭bd250110


    Smartphones with GPS chips relaying data back to the big cloud? Why did pople think that this wouldn't be happening? I think this thing is blown out of proportion.
    Both Apple and Google warn you that his would/could happen. Google when you power on the Android device, Apple when you connect the phone to iTunes.

    There is a real difference though. The data the iPhone collects is collected on the users PC, which may (or more likely may not) be fed back to Apple. Android definitely sends this info back to google, in pretty much real time. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages.


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    #17
    seanybiker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    Dont understand why anyone would have a problem with it. Unless your Von laden then its nothing to worry about.


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