Cardiff City could go from Blue to Red

The_Kew_Tour · 28-02-2013 10:26pm

As of the Swansea fans are not in dream land already after Sunday and now this.

Have few friends who are Swans fans and they are loving this Facebook.

Pro. F · 01-03-2013 3:27am

The FA should be stopping this type of nonsense. Something like a rule requiring a fan vote to be passed for any change of home colours or club name.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 01-03-2013 4:03am

This whole situation is quite strange really.

You'd wonder how much the casual asian supporeters actually care about the colour red and the dragon etc.

Omackeral · 01-03-2013 8:37am

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

This whole situation is quite strange really.

You'd wonder how much the casual asian supporeters actually care about the colour red and the dragon etc.

I know it's really different to the casual fan but the 'Be The Reds' campaign at World Cup 2002 is one of my favourite visual sights in football ever.

cournioni · 01-03-2013 9:45am

Being top of the championship at the moment, I doubt if they care all that much. As for this whole rubbish about changing name and colours, lots of teams have changed their names and colours since their formation for example Newton Heath (Manchester United), Everton Athletic (Liverpool), Ardwick AFC (Manchester City) etc. so it is hardly a new thing.

I can see why a lot of fans don't like changes as I wouldn't like to see United's name changed to Manchester Red Devils or the like, but the whole outrage over tradition seems a bit funny to me given the fact that it has had name changes before.

The_Kew_Tour · 01-03-2013 9:56am

cournioni wrote: »

Being top of the championship at the moment, I doubt if they care all that much. As for this whole rubbish about changing name and colours, lots of teams have changed their names and colours since their formation for example Newton Heath (Manchester United), Everton Athletic (Liverpool), Ardwick AFC (Manchester City) etc. so it is hardly a new thing.

I can see why a lot of fans don't like changes as I wouldn't like to see United's name changed to Manchester Red Devils or the like, but the whole outrage over tradition seems a bit funny to me given the fact that it has had name changes before.

I think you fail to see that by changing the name of the team could lead them to becoming a Fanchise then a Club.

cournioni · 01-03-2013 10:14am

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think you fail to see that by changing the name of the team could lead them to becoming a Fanchise then a Club.

Like it or not, most professional clubs are businesses regardless of the clubs name.

The_Kew_Tour · 01-03-2013 10:15am

cournioni wrote: »

Like it or not, most professional clubs are businesses regardless of the clubs name.

True, but many still want to keep tradition.

cournioni · 01-03-2013 10:20am

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

True, but many still want to keep tradition.

I see where you're coming from, but by the same score did clubs in the late 1800's and early 1900's not ditch their traditional colours and names for their current names and colours?

What is the difference between Cardiff City changing their name from Riverside AFC to Cardiff City FC in 1905 and changing from Cardiff City FC to Cardiff Dragons now other than the cheesy name?

Beefy78 · 01-03-2013 10:26am

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think you fail to see that by changing the name of the team could lead them to becoming a Fanchise then a Club.

But you're just using the word 'franchise' because it has negative connotations. Changing the name doesn't give Cardiff City/Dragons/Whatever any of the hallmarks of being a franchise other than that they have a novelty second name as do American sporting franchises. English County Cricket clubs have also moved towards novelty second names and they're some of the most historic sporting entities in the World.

GLaDOS · 01-03-2013 10:34am

cournioni wrote: »

What is the difference between Cardiff City changing their name from Riverside AFC to Cardiff City FC in 1905 and changing from Cardiff City FC to Cardiff Dragons now other than the cheesy name?

Well they'd 6 years history as Riverside AFC as opposed to the current 108 years as Cardiff City FC.

cournioni · 01-03-2013 10:42am

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Well they'd 6 years history as Riverside AFC as opposed to the current 108 years as Cardiff City FC.

I agree, but if say they changed their name to Cardiff Dragons tomorrow and 500 years down the line they change it to something else, would it be any different?

I like clubs names and colours as they are, but this "tradition" argument is daft in my opinion.

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-03-2013 10:59am

Beefy78 wrote: »

But you're just using the word 'franchise' because it has negative connotations. Changing the name doesn't give Cardiff City/Dragons/Whatever any of the hallmarks of being a franchise other than that they have a novelty second name as do American sporting franchises. English County Cricket clubs have also moved towards novelty second names and they're some of the most historic sporting entities in the World.

My thoughts exactly

The posters (The_Kew_Tour) assertion that he is trying to turn them into a 'Franchise' makes no sense.

A franchise cannot exist in isolation, a franchise has to be part of a organisation with other franchises in it.

You are just trying to stir the pot The_Kew_Tour.

The_Kew_Tour · 01-03-2013 3:59pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

My thoughts exactly

The posters (The_Kew_Tour) assertion that he is trying to turn them into a 'Franchise' makes no sense.

A franchise cannot exist in isolation, a franchise has to be part of a organisation with other franchises in it.

You are just trying to stir the pot The_Kew_Tour.

Stir what pot??

What a stupid little comment.

The_Kew_Tour · 01-03-2013 4:02pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

But you're just using the word 'franchise' because it has negative connotations. Changing the name doesn't give Cardiff City/Dragons/Whatever any of the hallmarks of being a franchise other than that they have a novelty second name as do American sporting franchises. English County Cricket clubs have also moved towards novelty second names and they're some of the most historic sporting entities in the World.

I'm not lol.

Go into the Cardiff forum and they agree.

I feel sorry for them at minute,

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-03-2013 4:29pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Stir what pot??

What a stupid little comment.

It was said jokingly by the way

Any how you are choosing to use the term franchise when it'd obviously not even close to what a franchise is.

As the other poster said you are 'using the word 'franchise' because it has negative connotations', and thus starting a whole 'good old days' v '$ky, prawn sandwich' debate, whether it was your intention or not.

No one can turn Cardiff City or any other club into a 'franchise' on their own.

CSF · 01-03-2013 6:05pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It was said jokingly by the way

Any how you are choosing to use the term franchise when it'd obviously not even close to what a franchise is.

As the other poster said you are 'using the word 'franchise' because it has negative connotations', and thus starting a whole 'good old days' v '$ky, prawn sandwich' debate, whether it was your intention or not.

No one can turn Cardiff City or any other club into a 'franchise' on their own.

What exactly is wrong with him starting that debate?

Oat23 · 01-03-2013 6:43pm

cournioni wrote: »

Being top of the championship at the moment, I doubt if they care all that much.

If even a quarter of their fans feel this way then that is very, very sad.

The_Kew_Tour · 01-03-2013 8:10pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It was said jokingly by the way

Any how you are choosing to use the term franchise when it'd obviously not even close to what a franchise is.

As the other poster said you are 'using the word 'franchise' because it has negative connotations', and thus starting a whole 'good old days' v '$ky, prawn sandwich' debate, whether it was your intention or not.

No one can turn Cardiff City or any other club into a 'franchise' on their own.

I just want point out I'm on the Cardiff fan side for this.

I would not like to happen to any club.

Richard Hillman · 01-03-2013 10:34pm

Its his club, he can do what he wants with it. Football fans have some mad sense of entitlement over the football clubs they follow.

CSF · 01-03-2013 11:31pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Its his club, he can do what he wants with it. Football fans have some mad sense of entitlement over the football clubs they follow.

Well Cardiff could exist without him, but not without the matchgoing fans. I think there are only a small few of the sugardaddy types, who could afford to maintain a Premiership/top Championship club on their personal funds alone.

If you go down the 'a football club is a business' route, then it has to operate as a business, ie. providing a product that the target customers actually want.

cournioni · 01-03-2013 11:41pm

CSF wrote: »

Well Cardiff could exist without him, but not without the matchgoing fans. I think there are only a small few of the sugardaddy types, who could afford to maintain a Premiership/top Championship club on their personal funds alone.

If you go down the 'a football club is a business' route, then it has to operate as a business, ie. providing a product that the target customers actually want.

The target customers in this case are those in Asia. I also doubt if there is a name change that any more than 10% of the current fan base would stop supporting Cardiff over it. That is the way that the owners will see it.

CSF · 01-03-2013 11:48pm

cournioni wrote: »

The target customers in this case are those in Asia. I also doubt if there is a name change that any more than 10% of the current fan base would stop supporting Cardiff over it. That is the way that the owners will see it.

And it's such arrogant business notions that **** up tonnes of potentially viable businesses.

Creating a product that your loyal customer base will like less, to try reach out to a market who already have hundreds of superior comparable products available to them worldwide, makes very little business sense to me.

dreamers75 · 02-03-2013 12:15am

CSF wrote: »

Well Cardiff could exist without him, but not without the matchgoing fans. I think there are only a small few of the sugardaddy types, who could afford to maintain a Premiership/top Championship club on their personal funds alone.

If you go down the 'a football club is a business' route, then it has to operate as a business, ie. providing a product that the target customers actually want.

You one of those no calcio moderno lads?

02-03-2013 12:50am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Its his club, he can do what he wants with it. Football fans have some mad sense of entitlement over the football clubs they follow.

i dont think the collective identity and visions of a football club can be summed up by one mans ideas. Football should and always should be about community. The people who support any given team are mostly from a community. In these neck of the woods its all about consistency and routine so i dont blame Cardiff fans for going spare.

Funny thing is the kit itself is not bad. Just the principal applied. Yes he owns the club but his support , his 'customers' are the people of Cardiff City. If they feck off, its just one man there with his club making no money. That said 'New Cardiff City' will probably be a PL club soon and people will undoubtedly jump back on the bandwagon. I only hope they go back in blue but thats only because im the type who gets homesick when too long abroad and who is a man of tradition not that its the law or anything

02-03-2013 12:53am

CSF wrote: »

And it's such arrogant business notions that **** up tonnes of potentially viable businesses.

Creating a product that your loyal customer base will like less, to try reach out to a market who already have hundreds of superior comparable products available to them worldwide, makes very little business sense to me.

its like the erosion of a cliff. little by little it breaks away until one day there is nothing left. are these new asian 'fans' here for as long a haul as the disillusioned Cardiff fans that can no longer identify with their club?

Hulk Hands · 02-03-2013 3:03am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

My thoughts exactly

The posters (The_Kew_Tour) assertion that he is trying to turn them into a 'Franchise' makes no sense.

A franchise cannot exist in isolation, a franchise has to be part of a organisation with other franchises in it.

You are just trying to stir the pot The_Kew_Tour.

By you saying out his username I now finally get what it means, yonks later! I feel very stupid

CSF · 02-03-2013 4:56am

dreamers75 wrote: »

You one of those no calcio moderno lads?

I don't put my opinions into any particular bracket, I try to judge everything on its own merits, so no I wouldn't say that.

The_Kew_Tour · 02-03-2013 1:03pm

CSF wrote: »

Creating a product that your loyal customer base will like less, to try reach out to a market who already have hundreds of superior comparable products available to them worldwide, makes very little business sense to me.

For me this is spot on and why I feel for Cardiff fans.

Fr Tod Umptious · 02-03-2013 1:41pm

Hulk Hands wrote: »

By you saying out his username I now finally get what it means, yonks later! I feel very stupid

Wow, it;s only dawned on me now too, when you bring it to my attention

I just thought the user was a fan of The Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew

losthorizon · 02-03-2013 2:02pm

Ireland dont play in their traditional gear either. And the FAI recently wiped away full caps from guys who brought us fame on foreign fields. This was done without much protest except among the odd LOI fan. It was a disgrace really.

A much more pressing matter than a minor foreign club.

Fr Tod Umptious · 02-03-2013 2:03pm

CSF wrote: »

And it's such arrogant business notions that **** up tonnes of potentially viable businesses.

Creating a product that your loyal customer base will like less, to try reach out to a market who already have hundreds of superior comparable products available to them worldwide, makes very little business sense to me.

You are making a assumption here, i.e. that most Cardiff fans prefer drudgery in the Championship or lower than the possibility of playing at a higher level.

Two years ago people reckoned Cardiff were f**ked after they once again failed to get promoted, people thought they would have to sell players and eventually drop down the table.
But then this guy came in, has invested and promised more investment, not only in the first team but also in the youth setup.
They are top of the league
In return he has changed the shirt colour and is suggesting a change to the name
He has not suggested they move location, ditch the name completely or buy players from Malaysia
I'd imagine that most Cardiff fans would take that if it meant playing football at a higher level.

What do you think Chelsea fans think of the last 10 years, would they have preferred financial ruin or the trophies they have won ?

Pro. F · 02-03-2013 2:41pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You are making a assumption here, i.e. that most Cardiff fans prefer drudgery in the Championship or lower than the possibility of playing at a higher level.

Two years ago people reckoned Cardiff were f**ked after they once again failed to get promoted, people thought they would have to sell players and eventually drop down the table.
But then this guy came in, has invested and promised more investment, not only in the first team but also in the youth setup.
They are top of the league
In return he has changed the shirt colour and is suggesting a change to the name
He has not suggested they move location, ditch the name completely or buy players from Malaysia
I'd imagine that most Cardiff fans would take that if it meant playing football at a higher level.

What do you think Chelsea fans think of the last 10 years, would they have preferred financial ruin or the trophies they have won ?

You are clearly the one making the assumption.

The Chelsea situation is completely different for obvious reasons.

Fr Tod Umptious · 02-03-2013 2:47pm

Pro. F wrote: »

You are clearly the one making the assumption.

The Chelsea situation is completely different for obvious reasons.

Obviously the name our the colour of the shirt has not changed in Chelsea, but do you really think Cardiff fans would give a toss if it meant investment in their club ?

I'm sure there are thousands of fans who went to games this year work blue shirts and are still enjoying being top by 8 with a game in hand

Fr Tod Umptious · 02-03-2013 2:56pm

Pro. F wrote: »

You are clearly the one making the assumption.

The Chelsea situation is completely different for obvious reasons.

The assumption I am making is that people are a bit more pragmatic than some people like to think

For those that think that supporting a team is all about history, tradition and the past then you are wrong, life goes on, things change and not all change is bad

losthorizon · 02-03-2013 3:22pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Obviously the name our the colour of the shirt has not changed in Chelsea, but do you really think Cardiff fans would give a toss if it meant investment in their club ?

I'm sure there are thousands of fans who went to games this year work blue shirts and are still enjoying being top by 8 with a game in hand

Actually the color has changed in Chelsea they used to play in Eton blue and white.

Interesting article on which managers have changed their clubs colours

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/29/knowledge-managers-changed-club-colours

For the record I am against changing teams names or colours except for exceptional purposes like a merger or if a club is just a year or two old and needs to establish itself.

Pro. F · 02-03-2013 3:34pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The assumption I am making is that people are a bit more pragmatic than some people like to think

For those that think that supporting a team is all about history, tradition and the past then you are wrong, life goes on, things change and not all change is bad

You are assuming that the Cardiff fans make the same subjective conclusions about the balance of what's important in football as you do. As I said, you are clearly making assumptions.

And if on balance the Cardiff fans choose to accept it, I'm sure they are still unhappy to lose their colours and their name. And that is a bad thing. The FA could sort this very quickly by simply requiring a fan vote on name and home colour changes.

Pro. F · 02-03-2013 3:43pm

losthorizon wrote: »

Actually the color has changed in Chelsea they used to play in Eton blue and white.

Interesting article on which managers have changed their clubs colours

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/29/knowledge-managers-changed-club-colours

For the record I am against changing teams names or colours except for exceptional purposes like a merger or if a club is just a year or two old and needs to establish itself.

I knew Chelsea reversed the blue socks and white shorts but I didn't know about a colour change (I haven't a notion what Eton Blue is). But in comparison to the Cardiff sugar daddy changing the colour and name, nothing like that happened under Abramovich.

Lovely Bloke · 02-03-2013 3:51pm

Pro. F wrote: »

I haven't a notion what Eton Blue is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_blue

Eton blue is a bluish-green colour used since early 19th century by sportsmen of Eton College

Pro. F · 02-03-2013 4:01pm

TheNinthGate wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_blue

Thanks. I was on my phone and didn't care

losthorizon · 02-03-2013 4:09pm

TheNinthGate wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_blue

Click and WOW EYE STRAIN!!!

Fr Tod Umptious · 17-04-2013 2:03pm

Great to see Cardiff promoted

Look like most of the fans could not give a S**t about the colour of the shirt, and dead right too.

The_Kew_Tour · 17-04-2013 2:16pm

Be some craic in the Swansea/Cardiff matches now. They seriously despise each other.

Pro. F · 17-04-2013 2:21pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Great to see Cardiff promoted

Look like most of the fans could not give a S**t about the colour of the shirt, and dead right too.

What are you basing that on?

Fr Tod Umptious · 17-04-2013 2:31pm

Pro. F wrote: »

What are you basing that on?

Oh I don't know, maybe this ?

Cardiff City fans invade the pitch as they celebrate their team's promotion to the Premier League at the end of the goalless draw against Charlton. Photograph: Michael Steele/Getty Images

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/17/cardiff-celebrate-promotion-premier-league

wonderfullife · 17-04-2013 2:37pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Oh I don't know, maybe this ?

Cardiff City fans invade the pitch as they celebrate their team's promotion to the Premier League at the end of the goalless draw against Charlton. Photograph: Michael Steele/Getty Images

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/17/cardiff-celebrate-promotion-premier-league

Unforunate picture to support your point given the small boy is wearing a blue Cardiff shirt :rolleyes:

Otherwise i agree with ya!! I think the reason the Cardiff shirt change had such a fuss over it was due to their nickname - Bluebirds. If their nickname was the Thunderbirds and they had no heritage of Blue, then i'm sure nobody would have cared if they want to wear a Pink and Yellow striped shirt with polkadots on it.

Fr Tod Umptious · 17-04-2013 2:54pm

wonderfullife wrote: »

Unforunate picture to support your point given the small boy is wearing a blue Cardiff shirt :rolleyes:

Otherwise i agree with ya!! I think the reason the Cardiff shirt change had such a fuss over it was due to their nickname - Bluebirds. If their nickname was the Thunderbirds and they had no heritage of Blue, then i'm sure nobody would have cared if they want to wear a Pink and Yellow striped shirt with polkadots on it.

I'm not doubting that many fans still wear blue shirts, but the mass outrage about the wanton obliteration of history by the evil fat cats from the east is missing if the team is winning.

Pro. F · 17-04-2013 2:58pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Oh I don't know, maybe this ?

Cardiff City fans invade the pitch as they celebrate their team's promotion to the Premier League at the end of the goalless draw against Charlton. Photograph: Michael Steele/Getty Images

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/17/cardiff-celebrate-promotion-premier-league

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm not doubting that many fans still wear blue shirts, but the mass outrage about the wanton obliteration of history by the evil fat cats from the east is missing if the team is winning.

It's possible for people to be happy about one thing and unhappy about another. The fact that they are happy about promotion doesn't prove that they don't care about the colour change.

Your argument is painfully simplistic.

wonderfullife · 17-04-2013 3:01pm

Pro. F wrote: »

It's possible for people to be happy about one thing and unhappy about another. The fact that they are happy about promotion doesn't prove that they don't care about the colour change.

Your argument is painfully simplistic.

waste of a 6,000th post :P Shoulda gone for a meaning of life type post lol

I think his point is valid though, in the sense when the team is winning it becomes a non-issue among fans. People obviously still care about it but it gets lost into obscurity. Whereas if they were in the relegation places, fans would hate the regime in charge and the shirt issue would be top of the agenda.

CSF · 17-04-2013 3:16pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Great to see Cardiff promoted

Look like most of the fans could not give a S**t about the colour of the shirt, and dead right too.

Where are you making this assumption from? Because they're happy about getting promoted?

Cardiff City could go from Blue to Red

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