Lough Derg Pilgrimage.

joseph brand · 07-08-2015 11:22am #1

I just caught a segment on Newstalk's Pat Kenny show, where they sent two people up to Lough Derg to report on the pilgrimage. Although it sounds absolutely miserable (like sleeping-under-a-wet-blanket-that-doesn't-cover-the-length-of-your-body miserable), is a complete waste of time, gives credence to beliefs in the supernatural, it's not without a sense of humour. Pilgrims can avail of the 'soup', a generous term for a bowl of water with either salt or pepper added. Someone in the clergy (with a fiendish wit) is, or was a fan of Blackadder.

Private Baldrick's hobbies include cookery, his specialities include:

Rat au Van (a rat that's been run over by a van),
Filet mignon in Sauce Bearnaise (dog turds covered in glue),
Plum duff (a mole hill decorated in rabbit droppings),
Cream custard (cat's vomit),
Coffee (hot mud), with milk (spit), sugar (dandruff) and rather dubious 'chocolate sprinkles' (try and guess what that one is) .
Apple crumble which contains fish

More rat; sautée, which involves:
taking the freshly shaved rat and marinading it in a puddle (When Blackadder asks how long it should be 'marinated' for, the reply is 'till it's drowned')
stretching it out under a hot lightbulb
getting within dashing distance of a latrine
scoffing it right down!
Rat fricassée, which is the same as above, but a slightly bigger rat.

They don't even serve MILK with the coffee, the heathens. This country was built on milk. Cows, everywhere!

"The island, made holy by the prayers of millions of pilgrims over the centuries."

I find this stuff so depressing. A picture is worth a thousand words.

I wonder if the pilgrims are supposed to feel some sense of guilt, for any luxury in their life?

Lough%20Derg%201.jpg

Cold, wet, barefoot, waiting for a spot near the cross to mumble to yourself as it rains on you. (predominantly female)
Lough%20Derg%204.jpg

Christianity has taught these poor old craters that they are filthy sinners who must beg forgiveness. When I picture 'bad' people, old ladies wouldn't be the first demographic to spring to my mind.
This carry on reminds me of that lunatic; Matt Talbot. From his wiki:

He slept on a plank bed with a piece of timber for a pillow.

I heard that Matt used to do a big shop in Tesco's, wheel the trolley outside the car park, and dump it all in the canal. Because he didn't deserve it. The truth to that story is debatable.

What interests me, is that you won't find any wealthy people carrying on like these pilgrims or Talbot. It always seems to be the poor, the peasants. Give them an expensive meal or some sort of luxury, and they'll be whipping themselves for a year. Maybe not literally, but the guilt is there. Meanwhile the Royal Family have gold leaf passing through their bowels. To they feel like sinners? Do they f*ck!

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Finally, if you want to pay €70 for the privilege of getting barefoot with a load of oddball strangers, talking to yourself for extended periods (praying) and denying your body a good meal for 72 hours, St Patrick's Purgatory on Lough Derg has it all. Bring the kids*!

* Don't bring the kids. Forcing your child to fast for 3 days is a form of child abuse and they don't want the Garda over again.

kylith · 07-08-2015 11:35am

Meh. If they want to report on it let them. I don't see the point of reporting on golf either, but they do that too.

Although whenever I hear of stuff like this it makes me want to show up and do it with a stout pair of boots and a full packed lunch. "Pilgrimage? Oh dear me, no. I'm just here for a walk".

Nodin · 07-08-2015 11:41am

They consecrated a stone to the victims of church abuse, then went and put it on lough derg. True story.

lazygal · 07-08-2015 11:42am

Nodin wrote: »

They consecrated a stone to the victims of church abuse, then went and put it on lough derg. True story.

The holy stone of Clonrickert?

Nodin · 07-08-2015 12:12pm

lazygal wrote: »

The holy stone of Clonrickert?

Nope, the 'Holy Stone Of We're Really Sorry Let's Hide This Thing On That Feckin Island Was I Meant To Engrave That....?'

(The "Healing Stone" - "Lord, we are so sorry for what some of us did to your children: treated them so cruelly, especially, in their hour of need. We have left them with a lifelong suffering. This was not your plan for them or us. Please help us to help them. Guide us, Lord, Amen.”)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/healing-stone-for-lough-derg-1.720159

Not outside the primates gaff, a cathedral, but the very hub of modern Ireland - Lough Derg. I suppose its a concession that it ended up on the island and not in the lake.

Not a NSA agent · 07-08-2015 12:21pm

Nodin wrote: »

Nope, the 'Holy Stone Of We're Really Sorry Let's Hide This Thing On That Feckin Island Was I Meant To Engrave That....?'

(The "Healing Stone" - "Lord, we are so sorry for what some of us did to your children: treated them so cruelly, especially, in their hour of need. We have left them with a lifelong suffering. This was not your plan for them or us. Please help us to help them. Guide us, Lord, Amen.”)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/healing-stone-for-lough-derg-1.720159

Not outside the primates gaff, a cathedral, but the very hub of modern Ireland - Lough Derg. I suppose its a concession that it ended up on the island and not in the lake.

They're still waiting for god to send down lots of money and evidence for court cases I assume.

uck51js9zml2yt · 07-08-2015 12:25pm

joseph brand wrote: »

Christianity has taught these poor old craters that they are filthy sinners who must beg forgiveness.

Don't normally venture in here (too scarey) but I must correct you.
catholicism teaches that a sinner must beg for forgiveness.
Christianity in its correct form says that we can't earn our forgiveness because Jesus paid the price for it
We just need to acknowledgeour sin, ASK Gods forgiveness , receive it and stop doing what we did.
No need for penance etc...

I'm not debating flying spaghetti monsters etc just setting the record straight.

Nodin · 07-08-2015 12:48pm

Vanessa Faithful Heap wrote: »

Don't normally venture in here (too scarey) but I must correct you.
catholicism teaches that a sinner must beg for forgiveness.
Christianity in its correct form says that we can't earn our forgiveness because Jesus paid the price for it
We just need to acknowledgeour sin, ASK Gods forgiveness , receive it and stop doing what we did.
No need for penance etc...

I'm not debating flying spaghetti monsters etc just setting the record straight.

Right, ye've lost me. Mind you I'm a catholic atheist, so not too suprising.

(Christianity In It's Correct Form TM?)

lazygal · 07-08-2015 12:57pm

Vanessa Faithful Heap wrote: »

Don't normally venture in here (too scarey) but I must correct you.
catholicism teaches that a sinner must beg for forgiveness.
Christianity in its correct form says that we can't earn our forgiveness because Jesus paid the price for it
We just need to acknowledgeour sin, ASK Gods forgiveness , receive it and stop doing what we did.
No need for penance etc...

I'm not debating flying spaghetti monsters etc just setting the record straight.

My word. How did you come across Christianity in its correct form?

kylith · 07-08-2015 12:59pm

Nodin wrote: »

Nope, the 'Holy Stone Of We're Really Sorry Let's Hide This Thing On That Feckin Island Was I Meant To Engrave That....?'

(The "Healing Stone" - "Lord, we are so sorry for what some of us did to your children: treated them so cruelly, especially, in their hour of need. We have left them with a lifelong suffering. This was not your plan for them or us. Please help us to help them. Guide us, Lord, Amen.”)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/healing-stone-for-lough-derg-1.720159

Not outside the primates gaff, a cathedral, but the very hub of modern Ireland - Lough Derg. I suppose its a concession that it ended up on the island and not in the lake.

Beats the hell out of actually doing anything to make amends, I suppose.

uck51js9zml2yt · 07-08-2015 1:01pm

lazygal wrote: »

My word. How did you come across Christianity in its correct form?

If you're referring to Biblical Christianity as opppsed to the tenets of a denominations, very easy...I picked up the new testament and it rather than relying on so called theologians to tell me what it said.
But dont let me stop you from beleiving in "Flying Spaghetti Monsters"

Nodin · 07-08-2015 1:22pm

kylith wrote: »

Beats the hell out of actually doing anything to make amends, I suppose.

Well its typical of the liberal agenda to say blessing a stone and hiding it on a damp midge bitten island, as opposed to paying off a few hundred million to the state, is doing nothing.

Cabaal · 07-08-2015 1:44pm

Newstalk you say?

I have no problem with this, as long as its not tax payer money then let them sleep on dead frogs in the name of god and report a 20hour show on it for all I care.
Those pictures make it look miserable,

magicbastarder · 07-08-2015 2:32pm

a bit mean spirited, this thread.
why not leave people to do whatever they want and only stick your nose in if it affects you?

pH · 08-08-2015 12:26am

magicbastarder wrote: »

a bit mean spirited, this thread.
why not leave people to do whatever they want and only stick your nose in if it affects you?

There's a huge difference in what's happening in this thread and what you're implying - these *people* are being left alone - no one is stopping them doing this, nor is anyone suggesting we might want to stop them, nor is anyone suggesting that there should be protests, signs or mockery of anyone actually doing this. These people have been left to to whatever they want - what's happening here is a discussion on what they're doing - on an obscure forum in a corner of the internet with a minimal amount of mockery and disrespect. Contrast that with actually doing things to people in the real world that actually affect their lives, like depriving non-religious parents of an education system that their taxes have already paid for - now that's mean spirited.

And perhaps you could take a dose of your own advice? How does the discussion here affect you? and if it doesn't then why stick your nose in?

Kidchameleon · 08-08-2015 8:45am

pH wrote: »

Contrast that with actually doing things to people in the real world that actually affect their lives, like depriving non-religious parents of an education system that their taxes have already paid for - now that's mean spirited.

The people referred to in the OP are responsible for that?

galljga1 · 08-08-2015 8:55am

Vanessa Faithful Heap wrote: »

If you're referring to Biblical Christianity as opppsed to the tenets of a denominations, very easy...I picked up the new testament and it rather than relying on so called theologians to tell me what it said.
But dont let me stop you from beleiving in "Flying Spaghetti Monsters"

Equally as made up, I suppose. I am an invisible pink unicorn type of dude although I do like the term pastafarian.

Seth Brundle · 08-08-2015 8:55am

Nodin wrote: »

(The "Healing Stone" - "Lord, we are so sorry for what some of us did to your children: treated them so cruelly, especially, in their hour of need. We have left them with a lifelong suffering. This was not your plan for them or us. Please help us to help them. Guide us, Lord, Amen.”)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/healing-stone-for-lough-derg-1.720159

Wait. This cant be a true story. There was no collection!

kylith · 08-08-2015 12:00pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The people referred to in the OP are responsible for that?

Do you think that the people on this pilgrimage would be for or against secularising education?

magicbastarder · 08-08-2015 12:30pm

i couldn't give a toss what they are for or against. they're not the ones in a position to do anything about it, generally.

this is what i was getting at; if the people above are getting something out of their pilgrimage, leave them to it. generally the discussions in this forum focus more on how religious ethos in this country affects non-believers, and doesn't spend as much time criticising what believers actually do in the pursuit of their belief. which is their business. i don't care if they whip themselves with birch branches or walk over hot coals while singing in tongues; that's immaterial. yes, let us talk about catholic ethos in schools, but to suggest that the pilgrimage above is relevant in that debate is simply wrong.

magicbastarder · 08-08-2015 12:41pm

pH wrote: »

And perhaps you could take a dose of your own advice? How does the discussion here affect you? and if it doesn't then why stick your nose in?

just to tackle this question too - because atheism (like it or not) has gained a reputation with the wider public for playing the man and not the ball. tackle religious ardour where it seeks to impinge on your life, and take it as a given that religious people will get up to modes of worship that you will find baffling.

if i was to start a thread somewhere on boards about S&M practices along the lines of 'look at what these odd people get up to', many people would say to me 'sure what do you care, leave them to it', and they'd be dead right.

Kidchameleon · 09-08-2015 10:49am

kylith wrote: »

Do you think that the people on this pilgrimage would be for or against secularising education?

You'd have to ask them. What exactly does your question have to do with this thread?

recedite · 09-08-2015 11:31pm

Vanessa Faithful Heap wrote: »

Don't normally venture in here (too scarey) but I must correct you.
catholicism teaches that a sinner must beg for forgiveness.
Christianity in its correct form says that we can't earn our forgiveness because Jesus paid the price for it
We just need to acknowledgeour sin, ASK Gods forgiveness , receive it and stop doing what we did.
No need for penance etc...

I'm not debating flying spaghetti monsters etc just setting the record straight.

I take your point that the notion of penance as a remedy for past sins is not universal in Christianity, its more of an RC thing. It all goes back to the faith V good works debate. And BTW, either doctrine can be justified by quoting biblical passages, because the Bible is so self-contradicting.

As we are discussing the pointless hardship people are imposing on themselves on some miserable island of Lough Derg, lets look at the point of penance itself.

The point is to "make up" for some sin, a sin being an offence perpetrated against some other person or against a god.

If its against a person, say stealing their bike, then neither doctrine is going to fix it. The obvious remedy is to give the bike back.
You being miserable on Lough Derg is not doing the victim any good. Neither is you believing in Jesus with all your heart, if you don't give the bike back.

Suppose you committed an offence only against the god, say taking his name in vain, or failing to pray often enough. Then he may actually feel better by seeing you all miserable. Who knows. He may also feel better seeing you declaring your faith as a born again Christian, and maybe you will be totally forgiven by faith alone.
IMO if you think he is watching you, the best plan would be to hedge your bets and do both.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-08-2015 1:15pm

It really is hilarious to see a believer use an atheist forum to try to score points against a very slightly different belief :rolleyes:

As for thread topic, pointing and laughing at people doing stupid things is an internet tradition

Fleawuss · 10-08-2015 11:11pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

just to tackle this question too - because atheism (like it or not) has gained a reputation with the wider public for playing the man and not the ball. tackle religious ardour where it seeks to impinge on your life, and take it as a given that religious people will get up to modes of worship that you will find baffling.

if i was to start a thread somewhere on boards about S&M practices along the lines of 'look at what these odd people get up to', many people would say to me 'sure what do you care, leave them to it', and they'd be dead right.

Extraordinary assertions about perceptions of the wider public. The atheists and agnostics I know have long since rubbished the nonsense that makes up the dogma of religion. People who believe such manifest nonsense and attempt to make it a basis for societal laws or beheadings or whatever need to be confronted about trying to impose "revealed" nonsense on those who have seen through it.
What's the harm in Lough Derg? It saddens me to see people encouraged to abuse themselves physically through hardship and psychologically through subservience to a "God" who is pleased by such obeisance and attacks on their self esteem. But if they do that and leave it at that, fair enough. And fair enough that people in this forum look on it as another example of the absurdity religion leads to in the lives of many, I am certain, decent human beings.

joseph brand · 11-08-2015 4:21am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It really is hilarious to see a believer use an atheist forum to try to score points against a very slightly different belief :rolleyes:

As for thread topic, pointing and laughing at people doing stupid things is an internet tradition

Fail Compilations on YouTube being one example. 'You've Been Framed' being another. Imagine watching video of the pilgrimage in Lough Derg, with a laugh track. :pac:

joseph brand · 11-08-2015 4:35am

magicbastarder wrote: »

a bit mean spirited, this thread.
why not leave people to do whatever they want and only stick your nose in if it affects you?

I'm pretty sure that you're not new to this forum, which is confusing. Why do you sound so surprised? May I take this moment to ward you off visiting the thread titled: The "Funny ha, ha" side of religion!

Anyway, my 'beef' is not with the poor craters who have been hoodwinked into walking around in their bare feet, on empty stomachs, whispering to mossy boulders in the hope that they will be 'forgiven' for their apparent sins.

Taken from: Why I Am Not A Christian by Bertrand Russell

When you hear people in church debasing themselves and saying that they are miserable sinners, and all the rest of it, it seems contemptible and not worthy of self-respecting human beings. We ought to stand up and look the world frankly in the face. We ought to make the best we can of the world, and if it is not so good as we wish, after all it will still be better than what these others have made of it in all these ages. A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; it does not need a regretful hankering after the past or a fettering of the free intelligence by the words uttered long ago by ignorant men.

The church has made eejits out of these people. But according to you, we should just keep quiet.

pauldla · 11-08-2015 5:53am

joseph brand wrote: »

Fail Compilations on YouTube being one example. 'You've Been Framed' being another. Imagine watching video of the pilgrimage in Lough Derg, with a laugh track. :pac:

Watch it at double speed with Yakety Sax playing. :pac:

magicbastarder · 11-08-2015 8:45am

Fleawuss wrote: »

People who believe such manifest nonsense and attempt to make it a basis for societal laws or beheadings or whatever need to be confronted about trying to impose "revealed" nonsense on those who have seen through it.

beheadings? imposing? what are you talking about? these are people who are engaging in what (certainly was their assumption anyway) was a mode of worship which was not engaging with any of the above.

like i said, playing the man and not the ball. even if you've turned this particular man into some sort of mutant bogeyman to suit your argument.

re Hotblack Desiato's comment - so JB is a believer of a different stripe?

Hotblack Desiato · 11-08-2015 12:02pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

re Hotblack Desiato's comment - so JB is a believer of a different stripe?

No, Tatranska is, it goes like this:

Atheist: "Haha look at what those silly catholics are doing"
Non-catholic christian: "Yeah, I mean their beliefs aren't biblically sound, and stuff"
Atheist: "WTF? Your beliefs are equally unevidenced and ridiculous"

Fleawuss · 11-08-2015 1:23pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

beheadings? imposing? what are you talking about? these are people who are engaging in what (certainly was their assumption anyway) was a mode of worship which was not engaging with any of the above.

like i said, playing the man and not the ball. even if you've turned this particular man into some sort of mutant bogeyman to suit your argument.

re Hotblack Desiato's comment - so JB is a believer of a different stripe?

Its very obvious that I am talking about religious believers imposing their beliefs through law or violence on non believers. Very obvious. The attempt to twist the argument is yours: I pointed very clearly that the "ball" of religion, to use your own metaphor, is an empty nonsense and I also pointed that the "man" needs to be challenged if he believes that his beliefs give him the right to behead in the name of Islam or ban access to divorce or condoms as we had here for many years, in the name of the RCC. I haven't described any mutant bogeyman: I've described what religious believers do when they think that some god or other told someone thousands of years ago how humanity should live for ever more.

The people in Lough Derg I very clearly described at the end of my post. But don't let facts and clarity get in the way of another outburst.

magicbastarder · 11-08-2015 1:50pm

Fleawuss wrote: »

Its very obvious that I am talking about religious believers imposing their beliefs through law or violence on non believers.

let's have that debate, no argument there. but it is being conflated, or used as a defence, by posters here in relation to whether it's in the interests of atheism (as a 'movement', for want of a better phrase) to criticise the modes of worship above.

i think it was the inclusion of the photos which bugged me most. people were being photographed during what to them was probably a personal moment, in a place where they did not expect to be photographed, and those photos posted online in a somewhat patronising criticism of their religious practices.
notwithstanding the claim that this argument is happening on a tiny portion of the internet, it's been lifted to the top of the front page on boards, one of the busiest sites in the country, a couple of dozen times (and yes, i do see the irony in me doing this again).

regarding the comment about my assertions re the opinions of the wider public, i know many people (secular liberals) who would not identify as humanist or atheist as the practice of criticising private religious practice - as opposed to religious practice being shoved down the throats of the general public - has become associated with the movements. whether or not you agree that is a fair conclusion, it doesn't help to provide ammunition.

Fleawuss · 11-08-2015 6:01pm

It's always in the interests of humanity to criticize irrationality when it seeks to influence how humans live and organize themselves.

Kidchameleon · 11-08-2015 6:19pm

Have the people on the pilgrimage actively tried to influence how others live their lives?

Fleawuss · 11-08-2015 6:40pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have the people on the pilgrimage actively tried to influence how others live their lives?

Only they could answer that definitively. For my part read the last paragraph of post 25.

_Brian · 11-08-2015 6:53pm

Curiosity made me click on this thread, or boredom or whatever.

I'd agree with the madness if the whole pilgrimage thing, I'd probably be best described as a lapsed or a la carte Christian.

It really does seem the Atheist forum should be renamed the "anti religion" forum. I foolishly thought Atheist meant "without religion" rather than "against religion", honesty - the constant threads and focus on anti Christian stuff makes Atheism itself seem just like a religion where the belief is to be a good Atheist you must regularly knock organised religions.

Really, if your not religious just leave those that are alone and get over it.

For many it seems they want a religion but just not what's available and so use Atheism as a substitute religion to "belong" to.

brooke 2 · 11-08-2015 6:57pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have the people on the pilgrimage actively tried to influence how others live their lives?

I happen to know someone who regularly goes to Lough Derg. Her last visit was about two weeks ago. She is one of the most narrow minded, bigoted people I have ever met!!

gctest50 · 11-08-2015 7:01pm

joseph brand wrote: »

.........Imagine watching video of the pilgrimage in Lough Derg, with a laugh track. :pac:

it'd look like a confluence of gimps with latex allergies

Kidchameleon · 11-08-2015 8:10pm

brooke 2 wrote: »

I happen to know someone who regularly goes to Lough Derg. Her last visit was about two weeks ago. She is one of the most narrow minded, bigoted people I have ever met!!

Ok? Whats your point?

Kidchameleon · 11-08-2015 8:11pm

Fleawuss wrote: »

Only they could answer that definitively. For my part read the last paragraph of post 25.

If thats the case then people on this thread shouldn't be putting words in these peoples mouths.

Fleawuss · 11-08-2015 9:18pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If thats the case then people on this thread shouldn't be putting words in these peoples mouths.

There is no if about it. The definitive answer could only come from people who visit Lough Derg saying whether or not they sought to impose Catholic teaching on divorce, access to contraception and rejecting the same sex marriage referendum on others by campaigning of voting in a particular way. You don't know either.

joseph brand · 11-08-2015 9:33pm

_Brian wrote: »

Curiosity made me click on this thread, or boredom or whatever.

I'd agree with the madness if the whole pilgrimage thing, I'd probably be best described as a lapsed or a la carte Christian.

It really does seem the Atheist forum should be renamed the "anti religion" forum. I foolishly thought Atheist meant "without religion" rather than "against religion", honesty - the constant threads and focus on anti Christian stuff makes Atheism itself seem just like a religion where the belief is to be a good Atheist you must regularly knock organised religions.

Really, if your not religious just leave those that are alone and get over it.

For many it seems they want a religion but just not what's available and so use Atheism as a substitute religion to "belong" to.

You can say that again. What sort of opinions on religion were you expecting atheists to have?

There's a few posters here (yourself included) who seem to be confused as to the general content of this forum. One would have thought that the word Atheism would be a big giveaway. Apparently not.

Still, there are many among us who view religion as harmless, despite the cruelty suffered by our people under the RCC.

"I feel sorry for the [child raping] bishop", as an old lady once said.

Women were treated far worse than us men, yet they are statistically more likely to go to mass and believe fully, all the supernatural nonsense forced on them from a young age. More's the pity. (I only counted maybe two men in the photo above versus FIFTEEN women).

Hotblack Desiato · 11-08-2015 10:52pm

_Brian wrote: »

Really, if your not religious just leave those that are alone and get over it.

Really, if you are religious just leave those that are not alone and get over it.

Don't control 96% of primary schools and force religion on non-believers' children

Don't stuff the Constitution with religious language, religious oaths, blasphemy law

Don't have calls to prayer on the state broadcaster twice a day

Don't constantly misrepresent and bad-mouth or tar as immoral those of another religion, or none

Stop persecuting gays and women and stop trying to restrict sexual and reproductive rights

Make religious organisations accountable for the monies they collect and how they are spent

Don't shield criminals from the law.

I would love to live in a country where religious people did not try to tell me how to live my life - sadly Ireland is still far from being such a country.

magicbastarder · 11-08-2015 11:35pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Ok? Whats your point?

prayer = apologising for child rape?

Fleawuss · 12-08-2015 12:17am

Prayer=talking to yourself but expecting others to regard it as being in communication with god.

Absolam · 12-08-2015 2:38am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Really, if you are religious just leave those that are not alone and get over it.
Don't <...> law.

Pretty sure the overwhelmingly vast majority of those who are religious do leave those that are not alone, and participate in pretty much none of what you're asking them not to do, at least on a day to day basis anyways....

joseph brand · 12-08-2015 4:42am

Absolam wrote: »

Pretty sure the overwhelmingly vast majority of those who are religious do leave those that are not alone, and participate in pretty much none of what you're asking them not to do, at least on a day to day basis anyways....

I can't help thinking about all the people who voted NO in the recent SSM, purely because of their religion. Their faith told them to.

That's just one example of religion sticking its nose in where its not wanted. Shame on us for highlighting the stubbornness and lunacy of organised beliefs in the supernatural. :rolleyes:

Kidchameleon · 12-08-2015 7:43am

joseph brand wrote: »

I can't help thinking about all the people who voted NO in the recent SSM, purely because of their religion. Their faith told them to.

That's just one example of religion sticking its nose in where its not wanted. Shame on us for highlighting the stubbornness and lunacy of organised beliefs in the supernatural. :rolleyes:

Eh, the referendum passed?

Kidchameleon · 12-08-2015 7:44am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Really, if you are religious just leave those that are not alone and get over it.

Don't control 96% of primary schools and force religion on non-believers' children

Don't stuff the Constitution with religious language, religious oaths, blasphemy law

Don't have calls to prayer on the state broadcaster twice a day

Don't constantly misrepresent and bad-mouth or tar as immoral those of another religion, or none

Stop persecuting gays and women and stop trying to restrict sexual and reproductive rights

Make religious organisations accountable for the monies they collect and how they are spent

Don't shield criminals from the law.

I would love to live in a country where religious people did not try to tell me how to live my life - sadly Ireland is still far from being such a country.

Your soap boxing now. What have the people who went to the pilgrimage got to do with ANY of the examples you gave?

Absolam · 12-08-2015 7:55am

joseph brand wrote: »

I can't help thinking about all the people who voted NO in the recent SSM, purely because of their religion. Their faith told them to. That's just one example of religion sticking its nose in where its not wanted. Shame on us for highlighting the stubbornness and lunacy of organised beliefs in the supernatural. :rolleyes:

Did their faith tell them to? Surely then it's an example of religion sticking its nose in where it is wanted... since they listened to it? Unless they thought they were possessed by demons forcing them to vote against their will. I wonder do demons oppose gay marriage? I imagine Aziraphale and Crowley might have had an interesting discussion about which option would cause the greatest misery in humankind...

magicbastarder · 12-08-2015 8:17am

joseph brand wrote: »

Shame on us for highlighting the stubbornness and lunacy of organised beliefs in the supernatural. :rolleyes:

i'm still curious as to why you care so much about how people worship. you're continually conflating how people choose to worship in private with social policy as advocated by the church or state.
attacking the former in no way makes a dent in the latter, except to make you look petty.

Lough Derg Pilgrimage.

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