Is "Dublin" a real place?

Michael OBrien · 25-08-2015 11:23am

mickrock wrote: »

In fairness, religion had come up with the same answer as scientists did thousands of years later.

"The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy ... For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
--Robert Jastrow

Genesis is mistaken in every sentence. To claim that even if it gets the details wrong it is still in some way right because it assumes a beginning is foolhardy because there is only so many options available, either the universe always existed or it did not. A flip of a coin has the same odds.
Also in Genesis the earth existed in some formless way before its god thinkered with it to bring forth land and divide the seas. The earth in genesis existed before light, the sun and the stars existed.
The only thing going for genesis is that it shows a linear progression of events that are easy to follow, considering it was written around the 5th century BCE.

Zillah · 25-08-2015 11:53am

mickrock wrote: »

In fairness, religion had come up with the same answer as scientists did thousands of years later.

"The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy ... For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
--Robert Jastrow

There is nothing quite so immediately enraging as the smug and inexhaustible stupidity of the religious.

Huntergonzo · 25-08-2015 12:10pm

Zillah wrote: »

There is nothing quite so immediately enraging as the smug and inexhaustible stupidity of the religious.

That sort of stupidity can be very entertaining as well though, for example I think someone like Breda O'Brien really needs to have her own radio show, It'd be feckin hilarious........unless people started taking her seriously of course, we'd be in deep trouble then

Zillah · 25-08-2015 12:41pm

I just looked this guy up. Claimed to be agnostic, apparently, and yet also said:

That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact.

...because of the Big Bang.

It's astounding to me that someone can be a NASA scientist and also come out with such outlandish statements.

Also a climate change denier apparently

Then there's this:

There is a kind of religion in science; it is the religion of a person who believes there is order and harmony in the Universe. Every event can be explained in a rational way as the product of some previous event; every effect must have its cause, there is no First Cause. … This religious faith of the scientist is violated by the discovery that the world had a beginning under conditions in which the known laws of physics are not valid, and as a product of forces or circumstances we cannot discover. When that happens, the scientist has lost control. If he really examined the implications, he would be traumatized.

It is a shame he died in 2008 because I would love to send him angry letters.

endacl · 25-08-2015 1:22pm

Zillah wrote: »

It is a shame he died in 2008 because I would love to send him angry letters.

It's the misappropriation of language that bugs me. How is any sort of conversation to take place if there's a wilful and selective disregard as to what words actually mean?

As in, "Yeah? Well that's just a theory. My theory deserves equal regard. 'Cause it's a theory too".

There's no stupidly quite as stupid as the stupidity one stupidly selects for one's stupid self...

looksee · 25-08-2015 9:02pm

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

You talk about 'believing there is no god' as though it is an active thing, something a person has to continuously re-affirm to themselves, and it is not, not for me anyway. You can't have an awareness of an absence of something that was not there in the first place.

So why would I be depressed about an absence of something? As the saying goes, 'you don't miss what you never had'. I will go as far as to say that I had a very happy teenage years as part of a church group, but that was entirely a social thing. Even then I was vaguely aware that I did not subscribe to all the stuff that I was apparently supposed to believe. Once the platform of a social life was removed (I went overseas) it did not really take me long to lose interest in all the stuff I thought I believed in.

Certainly I never had any sense that I needed that belief to make me behave like a rational and caring human being. I don't know where I 'was' before I was born, and I don't know where I will 'be' when I am dead - my body will be in the ground or cremated, I don't really care. My spirit or whatever you want to call the thing that makes flesh and blood into a person, may cease to exist, it may go into another existence, I don't know, and I don't think it will be anything that will have any memory of or link to this life. But I don't know and I am not about to get involved in worrying about it at this point, I have enough to do dealing with the life I have.

Why would you need the threat of retribution, or the withdraw-able promise of heaven to make you behave well in this life though? It seems like an incredibly shallow way of living your life.

gaius c · 27-08-2015 9:55am

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

So being a believer is like a vaccine for insanity?

Captain Flaps · 27-08-2015 10:30am

I was brought up Protestant going to Church every Sunday. My grandad was a lay reader (basically an assistant priest/reverend) and he and my grandmother were very religious. As a result my dad was fairly religious whereas my mother wasn't really, she just went along with it. I quickly discovered that what my folks got out of the church was a social circle and sense of community, and while I absolutely see merit in that I decided fairly early on that all the God business was a load of rubbish and the only reason I agreed to make my confirmation was so as not to upset my Granny (folks had to bribe me something fierce though!).

To be honest, I find it hugely liberating being without religion. Some people seem to genuinely think that morality and religion are intrinsically connected and that you do good things specifically to get yourself into heaven... Surely if the end goal of being a good person is eternal salvation, you're doing things for selfish reasons? It's nice to know if I do something good I'm doing it for the joy of the deed rather than banking karma for some apparently uncertain eventuality.

People die. Hell, pets die. I mourn. I don't believe I'll meet them again in the future, or we'll be together forever in heaven when I eventually die. I kind of feel its a bit disrespectful to a persons memory when people say things like 'he's watching over you, you'll meet again someday' etc, because while I know its a coping mechanism I feel people should be focussing on the life the person lived rather than the hope that they'll have more time with them in the future.

When I die I presume it'll be like before I was born, my conscience will just cease. I'm not thrilled about the prospect because I very much enjoy being alive, but do you not think the value of life is in how fleeting it is, and that it's cheapened somewhat by the suggestion that it's just a practice run or entrance exam for some sort of eternal paradise?

Notavirus.exe · 27-08-2015 10:59pm

the_syco wrote: »

As there are a large number of gods, can you be more specific? By god, do you mean Thor, or the one who failed to stop the Holocaust?

What kind of an argument for the non existence of God is that? God isn't a superhero. Human beings have a need for systems and governments to survive well. This world is full of greed and corruption and is Hell on earth.

nozzferrahhtoo · 27-08-2015 11:09pm

Nice of you to represent his post as being an argument against the existence of god when he did not suggest it was any such thing. Funny that given you have not posted so much on your own thread that you seem to have an over abundance of words to insert into the mouths of others.

Perhaps your time would be better spent, if only in the interests of basic decorum, engaging with the people who took the time to respond to what is now something of a hit-and-run OP?

Baggy Trousers · 27-08-2015 11:11pm

This thread is quite brilliant.

AgreeableSir · 27-08-2015 11:12pm

Notavirus.exe wrote:

Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

Not really a big deal. I don't believe in God whatsoever, no bashing but I see the whole thing as hilariously delusional. I go about my day as I do knowing that once I'm dead I'll leave behind memories and my history. That seems a whole lot more believable than there being something after death. I was only discussing this the other day with my girlfriend about how Ireland is so stuck up on the religion thing after everything such as schools and marriage an such. Seems silly but that's all just my opinion

AgreeableSir · 27-08-2015 11:14pm

How do I get through my day knowing Santa Claus doesn't exist? Pretty much the same thing

Notavirus.exe · 27-08-2015 11:17pm

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Funny that given you have not posted so much on your own thread that you seem to have an over abundance of words to insert into the mouths of others.

I haven't been online in a few days.

I didn't say that that particular individual was arguing against it, it just reminded me of other atheists' arguments.

InTheTrees · 27-08-2015 11:20pm

AgreeableSir wrote: »

How do I get through my day knowing Santa Claus doesn't exist?

Wait...what???

:eek:

AgreeableSir · 27-08-2015 11:22pm

InTheTrees wrote:

Wait...what???

I'm so sorry....I should have put a spoiler notice up.... Sorry man

Overheal · 27-08-2015 11:29pm

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

What kind of an argument for the non existence of God is that? God isn't a superhero.

And Thor is a God; a Norse God. He is neither superhero nor alien, despite being depicted as both in different fiction.

Similarly, you talk about God when really we all assume you're trying to refer to Yahweh.

nozzferrahhtoo · 28-08-2015 12:10am

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I haven't been online in a few days.

I didn't say that that particular individual was arguing against it, it just reminded me of other atheists' arguments.

Which, as I said, you felt the need to push into the mouths of the people who actually gave their time to respond to YOUR thread.

Perhaps rather than responding to stereotypes you maintain in your own head.... you might find the time... and decorum... to respond to the users who invested their time into your original OP. Rather than do a hit and run op.... followed by a hit and run response.

But as another user said.... the thread itself has thrown up some gems... the wealth of which are likely as far beyond your comprehension as they are beyond your original intention.

Hotblack Desiato · 28-08-2015 2:14am

zeffabelli wrote: »

Find pleasure in the detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re9YorsrUa4

/thread :pac:

Lithium93_ · 28-08-2015 2:45am

Been seeing this on the main page of Boards the last few days, and only now have i kind of decided to weigh in, funny enough the same question that's in the thread title was put to me the other day...

My response plain and simple, Plenty of exercise, healthy eating, friends, family, treat people the way you want to be treated, that's how i live life, seems to be working perfectly fine for me since I gave up the whole religion shtick in 2009..

(the plenty of exercise & healthy eating is a work in progress)

But that's just my 2 cents..

Thargor · 29-08-2015 9:22pm

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

theteal wrote: »

So if there wasn't a fabricated all-seeing overlord, you'd go on a murderous rampage?

That's just scary. . .seriously

People need to become comfortable in their own skin and take responsibility for themselves. Get on with your life, be happy, make a difference and try not to be a pr!ck to anyone. Fairly simple really.

Cant believe it took 3 pages before anyone asked him about this! Notavirus you need to talk about that with a psychiatrist, urgently.

endacl · 30-08-2015 2:26am

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Human beings have a need for systems and governments to survive well. This world is full of greed and corruption and is Hell on earth.

Nah. Societies do. But that's probably more a Humanities topic...

The world is not full of greed and corruption. If it were, there'd be no room for puppies and stuff.

Chill.

MrPudding · 30-08-2015 8:15am

endacl wrote: »

Nah. Societies do. But that's probably more a Humanities topic...

The world is not full of greed and corruption. If it were, there'd be no room for puppies and stuff.

Chill.

As for hell on earth,,, It is almost as if some religious people are living on a different planet. Is it perfect? No. Are some people dicks? Yes, quite a few actually. Is it really hell on earth? Meh, not really.

Some people have it pretty bad. For example, gay or transgender kids in certain countries or states in America have it pretty rough. The continuous attempts by people, mostly religious it has to be said, to remove or restrict their rights certainly can make their lives hellish.

Some of the conditions in third world countries is pretty hellish. Much of that is down to human greed, but it is also fair to say that the problem is exacerbated by, in many cases, the lack of control a woman has over her own reproductive cycle. If you are desperately poor and don't have access to good family planning facilities then you are unlikely to be anything but poor. As much of the work in these countries, with these people, is being done by an organisation that fights tooth and nail against any attempt to give women control of there reproductive cycle all that happnens is these people get caught is a spiral of poverty, simply giving this despicable church it next generation of victims.

I think we, particularly in more developed countries, are very far from what could be considered hell on earth. As I have said before, and will likely say again, the world of many of the religious is a very scary place, and certainly one I can't recognise or relate to.

MrP

yellowlabrador · 30-08-2015 10:14am

Mean while, on another planet.....hundreds of thousands of refugees are trying to get to the land of milk and honey after their own countries were destroyed in a religious war, and wait for it..... some of them are christians, yet the silence is deafening. In my particular area, according to the CSO, a quarter of all houses are empty.
We all need to stop bickering on how many angels dance on a pin, or arguing about life after death and concentrate on the here and now and knock some sense into our 'dear leaders'.

galljga1 · 30-08-2015 10:19am

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

What kind of an argument for the non existence of God is that? God isn't a superhero. Human beings have a need for systems and governments to survive well. This world is full of greed and corruption and is Hell on earth.

God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and a load of other omnis apart from the omniplex, or maybe, he/she/it does not exist.

Dtp1979 · 30-08-2015 10:27am

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God

Show me 1% definitive proof that there is

endacl · 30-08-2015 2:19pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Show me 1% definitive proof that there is

The platypus. Platypuses just can't be random. Part otter, part duck?

Crocoduck me arse. Ray Comfort missed a golden opportunity there!

Lucena · 31-08-2015 10:04pm

To answer the OP's question honestly, it probably is easier for people who believe in God to get through tough times. So if I'm having a tough time, I'll just have to grin and bear it whereas the believer will be able to console themselves with the fact that it's all part of God's plan and that God is looking over them.

That doesn't necessarily prove the existence of God though, just that the thought of someone watching over us is comforting to many.

looksee · 31-08-2015 10:37pm

Lucena wrote: »

To answer the OP's question honestly, it probably is easier for people who believe in God to get through tough times. So if I'm having a tough time, I'll just have to grin and bear it whereas the believer will be able to console themselves with the fact that it's all part of God's plan and that God is looking over them.

That doesn't necessarily prove the existence of God though, just that the thought of someone watching over us is comforting to many.

I am struggling with how it is a consolation to know that god is causing you grief and then watching you cope?

desbrook · 31-08-2015 10:57pm

When I have a tough time I can't worry about praying and waiting for someone else to sort it. I don't have to waste time. Knowing this is the real life not some rehearsal means I have extra strength to just roll my sleeves up and sort it.

Never been happier since I started believing in now !

Is "Dublin" a real place?

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