Why does ireland have one of the highest suicide rates?

braddun wrote: »

they did a study 80% of Ireland suicides are alcoholics


I would say losing your house and money woes would come next


then no job


it says we are only 47 in the world

Correlation is not causation as they say. I've no love for alcohol. Never drank much and decided in 2004 that I couldn't even be arsed having the odd drink anymore. Alcoholism could just as easily be a symptom of the depression as a cause.

DeadHand wrote: »

You held up the people of those four particular societies as being somehow morally superior to the people of Western societies despite the facts that Western societies have a far greater quality of life and clearly superior human rights records to these four nations in the modern day.

I'd agree fully that basic common values must be shared within a culture. It's what exactly these values are, to what extent they are enforced and how those who refuse to conform are treated that are the key issues.

Communism, Fascism and radical Islam are/were all about unifying people and having them abide by common values.

Unity is an essential part of any successful culture, but not at the expense of liberty, tolerance or personal expression. It's about striking a balance and, while I'd agree "we" in the West face and will always face huge cultural problems, it could be a whole lot worse.

"Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time" - Winston Churchill

Do we really need this Social/Cultural Anthropology debate with Eramen in this thread?

braddun wrote: »

they did a study 80% of Ireland suicides are alcoholics


I would say losing your house and money woes would come next


then no job


it says we are only 47 in the world

Do you where I can see that peice about 80% of suicides being alcoholics ? Is there an article online ?

Calibos wrote: »

Do we really need this Social/Cultural Anthropology debate with Eramen in this thread?

I think we do actually. I find it quite ironic in a sense that we're here talking about how much better we are in the West as a society because apparently we appreciate freedom and diversity and so on above other cultures, yet in the same thread, one person who has a difference of opinion has effectively tried to be silenced with scorn and derision, simply for having a difference of opinion.

It certainly supports Eramen's point about how the West is a more selfish, materialistic and fragmented society that values idealism over pragmatism, and the irony of other people putting him down, while saying that doesn't conform to the group think, they are immediately ostracised and nobody wants to listen to them. Instead they engage in trying to pick holes in their opinion and effectively miss the general point of what's being said for the sake of pointing out semantics. Nit picking over nothing basically.

A number of people in this thread have lamented the fact that suicide numbers are on the increase due to people feeling isolated and being made to feel like they don't fit in with any particular group in society, and yet here in this thread those same people share a commonality in dismissing the opinions of those people who see things differently, doing exactly the same thing as they are suggesting society as a whole does to them. You couldn't get a better example of the irony of how selfish and self-interested some people are in themselves, and if you don't agree with them, you'll be shunned.

I rarely contribute to these threads any more as the lack of self-awareness among some people and lack of awareness and consideration of other people beyond themselves and their own needs and their idealism, and trying to argue against that on the Internet is quite simply a futile exercise. If you don't agree with the group think, you're fcuked basically, but China, Russia and India (no mention of Africa?) are worse apparently than Europe and the US where the illusion of individual freedom is more valuable than the importance of community and the illusion of oppression, from our Western first world perspective. One of the problems that contributes to the increasing numbers of people in the West suffering with their mental health is their lack of perspective, caused by their own self-righteousness - anyone who disagrees with them can fcuk right off basically.

That's no way to treat people, and if someone is going to complain that nobody wants to listen to them, perhaps if they engaged in some self-examination before they started blaming society and "everyone else", they might see just WHY people don't want to listen to them - because they themselves aren't willing to listen to anyone else. They're perpetuating the very issue that they're complaining about.

I'm not going to relate my personal experiences with suicide and suicidal ideation and the experiences of people close to me suffering with mental health issues (always feels a bit "one-upmanshippy" in these threads anyway tbh, makes it difficult to relate to another person's perspective unless you know the person), but those that know me personally know that I live in a city which is a suicide hotspot, and I can state for a fact that isolation in a city is just as prevalent as isolation in the country, and community in the city is just as strong as community in the country. The problem is that in some places, it's not strong enough, and sometimes people who feel like they don't fit in are either left to their own devices, or they don't want to make an effort to fit in anywhere, drawing a perverse sense of personal comfort almost from their self-imposed isolation.

Sickens my bollocks quite frankly that there are people on here complaining about the lack of action from Government on the issue of suicide and mental health when they're old enough now to know better, successive governments don't see mental health as enough of a priority issue that they might lose votes over, so they're not particularly interested in the issue. What's worse though than those who blame the government and the various state bodies for their ham fisted attempts at tackling issues regarding mental health, are those that say there's no support or understanding at all! You couldn't be more wrong. There are TONS of organisations in Ireland alone that offer help, support and assistance and an ear to people who are suffering with their mental health - Pieta House, Aware and GROW being three of the most nationwide organizations that come to mind immediately, not to mention the number of smaller community based organizations dotted around the various cities, towns and villages up and down the country. Community driven initiatives that are run by people who actually give a shìt, and WANT to help people, but half the problem is getting people to make the effort to come to these organizations and ask for help. Sometimes I wonder is "the stigma" a self-imposed comfort blanket almost that allows people to excuse themselves from taking responsibility for their own mental health, because as far as I can see, it's a false perception. We really HAVE come a long way in terms of our attitudes towards people with mental health difficulties in this country, and I don't see how anyone can claim that nobody gives a damn about them unless that person has chosen to live under a rock for the last 20 years. You can't blame "society" for that, because you're part of that society, and if you want people to care about you, then you by that same token have to be willing to care for and be considerate of other people, and be willing to listen to other people and willing to give them a chance to express themselves, even when you don't agree with them half the time. It's more important to let them get it out and feel that someone is listening to them, than it is for you to be right all the fcuking time and picking holes in everything they say any time they open their mouths to express an opinion or how they're feeling.

If you're unwilling to do that for other people, then you shouldn't be disappointed when you find that they're unwilling to do it for you. If one of the core values of Western democratic society is freedom of expression, and people feel they are entitled to this right, well rights are worth fcukall value when those same people ignore their responsibility to listen to other people who don't share their beliefs or their opinions or their point of view.

Otherwise, as a society, we truly are fcuked if we can't learn what tolerance, understanding and respect really means. It doesn't mean that we're the only person entitled to express an opinion. It means that we must show tolerance and understanding and respect to other people when they express their opinions, no matter how much we might disagree with them on minor points, because if we can't do that, then we risk missing the overall point they're trying to make, just because we feel they're not meeting our standard of discussion. Learn to look at things from other people's point of view before you rush to judge them for expressing an opinion that differs from your own. Learn to make allowances for the fact that they may not have the ability to express themselves as eloquently as you can. Try and see where they're coming from instead of thinking in your own head "You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong", and making no effort to listen to them when you feel your opinion is more important. That's the time when you have to make more of an effort, not less, to see where they're coming from, and you might not get it the first time, but the more you allow them to feel comfortable expressing themselves, the more they'll open up to you, and that's more important than your right to tell them they're wrong and attempt to silence them and shut them down and even worse - encourage other people not to listen to them.

That's simply behaving like a dick, and it's a strategy that does nobody any favours in terms of tackling issues such as mental health, suicide, and people being made to feel isolated from the discussion or the group.

No point in complaining about the lack of support from other people, if you're not willing to offer support to other people.

Amazingfun wrote: »

Why don't people who are supposedly stuck with no options for "help" make use of the many free options along the lines of AWARE etc? They have meetings all over the place. As well as that the internet makes it possible for anyone to join a forum and begin to engage with others who have hopefully solved the problem and now share their solutions. Cyber-fellowship is not as dreary as some may imagine, it can be an excellent starting point for those maybe not quite up to engaging in 'real life' group scenarios yet.

As a few others have mentioned I believe diet and exercise play a big role. Eating for nutrient density is a rather new idea I think, and going forward hopefully one that will become more commonplace. Studies detailing the relationship between gut health and the brain are also happening now which is pretty exciting given the dramatic effect both of these have on how we feel and perceive the world.

This isn't a poplar position, but I heard a saying recently I find to be true in more than a few cases: " I thought I was depressed but discovered I was just full of self pity" lol. I am not making light of the truly serious/chemical imbalance cases, but many times being overly obsessed with ourselves can lead to having a distorted view of one's situation. I am sober many years and until I saw how truly selfish/self obsessed I had become via my drinking, I was stuck in that "poor me" mode. Helping others is now one of the highlights of my life now tbh.

Like the old saying goes: you have to give to get

As someone who had depressions and acute anxiety disorder at one point, can I just say, you're talking out of your arse.

Same with alot of road accidents. Many times they see high speed crashes where a car has left the road at high speed into a tree or wall and no attempt was made to brake or swerve as there is no sign of tire marks or rubber on the road.

For males I'd say the deprogramming of emotions is a biggie.

[more abstract]
We take for granted that we have it pretty much figured out, a lot of conviction that this is the way things are so it must be kind of right. Imo we're dumb to our own humanity. If we could go around like scrooge with a ghost of christmas present and see all the different ways society could be we'd get the picture. We'll cop on in a couple hundred years so we'll see then sure!

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Whinge whinge whinge. I've never dealt with this attitude towards my depression in rural or city areas. I'm assuming you have, yeah?

Same with the OP. Nice hyperbole; it doesn't have one of the highest suicide rates. And how can you ask a question like that in the thread title? Socrates the second over here.

No idea why this idiotic thread is still up.

Yes it does. There's over 190 countries in the world. So if we're 47th in the world, we've one of the highest suicide rates in the world. In fact, we've incredibly more suicides per 100,000 citizens than even the likes of Syria and Afghanistan. If places plagued by war can do so much better at keeping their citizens from resorting to suicide, then yes we have a serious problem here, and it's clear there's a whole lot of people trying to play it down.

I think dismissive attitudes to mental health in general are a contributing factor. People feel more alone when they reach out and get told, 'Ah yer grand', 'Maybe try not feeling bad', 'Cheer up', 'Sure it's not a big deal, other countries have it worse', 'Everyone gets depressed now and then'... all of which, in my view, adds up to: you're nothing special, there's nothing different about your condition, put up with it, alone, because we'll have no sympathy for you.

It's an incredibly isolating country to live in sometimes.

Anyway, no matter where we are in some morbid league table, the important question is why the suicide rate is so high here. Last I saw there were more people dying by suicide than road accident. That's a disgrace.

I was very suicidal when i was late teens, mostly down to environmental depression and my anxiety / panic attacks.

I was bent over in fear of having a heart attack that it got so bad, i was watching a movie "shawshank" and he said "get busy living, or get busy dying", after that i started working on myself, therapy, books, exercise....and if i believed in God i would thank him for what i have today. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.