Aldi site Clonsilla road

ozmo · 22-12-2014 2:09am

Front page of the local newspaper "Blanchardstown Gazette" - only place I see it mentioned in printed media apart from the letters distributed from local politicians.

Article is online also here:
http://www.gazettegroup.com/news/aldi-plan-sparks-traffic-concern/

"...they only assessed the impact that this development would have on traffic between 4pm and 7pm in the evening"

"Cllr David McGuinness (FF) also expressed his concerns..."

"Deputy Mayor of Fingal, Ted Leddy (FG), said: “...People can put in objections and I am recommending that they do so, because that at the very least lets the planners know that the locals demand a high standard of development."

KingMambo26 · 22-12-2014 4:29pm

In the Fingal Co Co website it say that objections to planning applications can be read in the website but cannot see to find them. Does anybody know where to look for them?

miamee · 22-12-2014 6:27pm

If you search for the planning application number (FW14A/0144) on this page: http://www.fingal.ie/planning-and-buildings/apply-or-search-for-a-planning-application/search-planning-applications-online/searchplanningapplicationsonline/ it should come up. Objections are filed under the Documents tab as far as I can see along with all other documentation, traffic assessment reports etc.

miamee · 22-12-2014 6:31pm

There are only 3 objections, one each from Spar and Tesco and one local resident - listed under Observation/Submissions.

stevekavo · 22-12-2014 10:27pm

The clonsilla road can be bad enough with the lights,schools, garage and train station all contributing to the traffic flow. Throw in aldi, an off lcence,a load of apartments and a creche trying to get up and down the road will be a nightmare. This is not to mention the safety concern for the kids and parents that have to walk up and down the road to the schools.

I submitted my objection today as it just won't work due to the traffic congestion it will create also it is going to really look out of place along the road.

People only have until tomorrow to object. The more the better.

Larbre34 · 23-12-2014 10:50am

I'd agree with the above, there are far more appropriate locations nearby like Coolmine business park which has some empty sites.

jazzrocket · 26-12-2014 12:08pm

Good to see so few objections, national retailers will object to everything ........ at this rate we might have a new supermarket by next christmas...Aldi build stores fast...only one personal objections .....Funny the only private objector doesn't even live in the area.... they live more than 2KM away and beside a Lidl..... I guess we are lucky to have such an open planning system

ozmo · 26-12-2014 10:39pm

jazzrocket wrote: »

so few objections... only one personal objections .....Funny the only private objector doesn't even live in the area.... they live more than 2KM away and beside a Lidl..... I guess we are lucky to have such an open planning system

I can see 21 objections - and only 1 in favor

15 are personal submissions - one in particular very detailed.
4 are group objections from neighboring Estates and Residents Associations

and 2 are objections from other shops.

The main 2 points are Traffic and the deviation from Fingals plan for the Village - but there are lots of other interesting points raised also, like operational noise, issues during construction(unspecified road lane closures?), waste of a chance for public canal amenity (think Ashtown/12th Lock), landlocking in others properties from road access, parking issues, large car parks rather than public greenspace, buildings not in keeping with a village setting etc....

murphaph · 27-12-2014 2:12pm

None of the thousands of houses in the area are in keeping with a village setting. There is no distinctive village centre in Clonsilla.

As for traffic... Where are these future customers going to come from and where are they currently doing their shopping? Surely overall traffic is reduced as one 40 foot lorry brings the stuff much closer to the customers so they either don't need to drive or don't need to drive as far as before to get their shopping.

I suppose people really mean "traffic right at this location" will get worse but it will relieve traffic elsewhere presumably and that is what the planners have to bear in mind. I bet all or most of the objectors happily drive to the next German discounter without two cares about the traffic they are causing for nearby residents.

January · 27-12-2014 4:07pm

Exactly, smacks of NIMBYism. Mulhuddart would have had bad traffic but an aldi has only added to the area.

The Dark Knight · 29-12-2014 2:51pm

January wrote: »

Exactly, smacks of NIMBYism. Mulhuddart would have had bad traffic but an aldi has only added to the area.

It's certainly not a NIMBY reason that I'm against the current plans.
In fact, it more of a WMIMBY (want more in my back yard) reason.
Aldi need to delivered a plan that meets the Fingal development plan for Clonsilla. Nothing more, nothing less!!

Renno · 29-12-2014 3:23pm

The Dark Knight wrote: »

It's certainly not a NIMBY reason that I'm against the current plans.
In fact, it more of a WMIMBY (want more in my back yard) reason.
Aldi need to delivered a plan that meets the Fingal development plan for Clonsilla. Nothing more, nothing less!!

Have to agree. The Fingal development plan is full of brilliant ideas, and will make a massive improvement to the area. There's not much point in having a popular, well thought out plan (including retail on the proposed site), and then ripping up the plan and letting something completely different be built.

No problems with an Aldi going in, but at least make sure it fits in with the development plan.

Pat Dunne · 30-12-2014 6:27pm

Just to clarify it is Lidl who have applied for planning permission in Clonsilla Village.

The Dark Knight · 30-12-2014 8:11pm

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Just to clarify it is Lidl who have applied for planning permission in Clonsilla Village.

No It's Not, Aldi have applied three times on the same site.

You may be getting confused with Lidl's application in Castleknock.

Rosser · 31-12-2014 1:14am

It's Aldi for sure and there's another thing, they've already applied 3 times and just keep coming back. It's like a process of attrition hoping that eventually the will of the people who originally object is broken down and because they have the resources they just keeping making subtle alterations to the plans until they eventually get their way.

NIMBY or not it seems to me that this sort of repetitive application should be outlawed, realistically they just pull the plans out of a standard file and impose it irrespective of location.

Other than cheap groceries I can't think of one way Aldi will enrich Clonsilla.

As for Lidl in Castleknock even though they appealed and were rejected by An Bord Plenala you can bet your last € they keep trying unless the receiver for the land gets a better offer first.

murphaph · 31-12-2014 11:07am

Clonsilla is not so special that the "standard" German discounter store design should not be considered. There are worse looking buildings already there.

ongarboy · 31-12-2014 2:56pm

http://www.keanestone.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/image-e1383912852733.jpg

http://traleetoday.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/aldi_exit.jpg

Not a great angle, but the new Aldi that opened in Tralee has a lovely stone facade on the front of the building. It differs from the bog standard Aldi design so local modifications of Aldi stores do happen. I'm sure if the design is sympathetic to the locality, I can't see why it would be considered an eyesore.

ozmo · 10-01-2015 12:06am

ongarboy wrote: »

I'm sure if the design is sympathetic to the locality, I can't see why it would be considered an eyesore.

I think some counties insist on there being a stone clad feature on new houses etc. as part of the planning - probably why its like that.
A nice design was Not what was offered to Clonsilla though - the one planned looks almost same as the one in Finglas - glass walls & car park.

Also - look how wide the road is there - 4+ lanes - and .. no houses - that looks to be a industrial area - which I think is where they best belong - eg. like in Liffey Valley and Malahide road.

On the plans - it says plazza with trees..
In reality - this is what you actually get (below)...
I just think we can do better than that for main street frontage..

Anyway - be interesting to see what the outcome is.

ozmo · 03-02-2015 11:48pm

Well - the report is in a few days and I only got to read it now...

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00485923.pdf

Lot of reading - but from understanding...
Up to Page 9 is history of the site.
Page 9 onwards says what Fingal were looking for in the site.
Page 21 onwards details where it succeeded and failed.

Looks like they are ok in principal - but Fingal are looking for lots of changes and clarifications-

Better Canal access - for cycle etc,
Make the road and canal wall more compatible with the new bridge going in,
Better side walls, better openings to side estates,
Better carpark (especially a safer carpark around where the creche is),
The Usual Huge Aldi Sign on a pole is not allowed,
There is half the amount of parkland as required (but a cash fine will will acceptable instead).
Try squeeze in a right turning into carpark lane if possible.
Let Fingal see the full traffic report for the area.

Mostly it seems the big open car park is at fault.

decision summary:
http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00485921.pdf

Zaph · 04-02-2015 12:14am

ozmo wrote: »

Try squeeze in a right turning into carpark lane if possible.

Clonsilla Road is narrow enough as it is without trying to add a right turn lane. Ridiculous that the application could even be considered in the first place due to the size of the road and the volume of traffic already on it, never mind trying to fit an extra lane into a space it won't fit.

ozmo · 04-02-2015 12:44am

Zaph wrote: »

Clonsilla Road is narrow enough as it is without trying to add a right turn lane. Ridiculous that the application could even be considered in the first place due to the size of the road and the volume of traffic already on it, never mind trying to fit an extra lane into a space it won't fit.

Agreed, dont know how they will do it - but if there isnt a lane put in somehow- then during busy times - traffic would be backed up the Clonsilla road as someone tries to cross the oncoming traffic to get into the carpark.

Its probably too close to the Estate exit, the other traffic lights and the bus stop to put in yet more traffic lights?

Finglas Incubus · 04-02-2015 2:43pm

ozmo wrote: »

Well - the report is in a few days and I only got to read it now...

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00485923.pdf

.....

decision summary:
http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00485921.pdf

Dead links, all documents related to the submission can be found here, newest first. Note that they span 2 pages.

ozmo wrote: »

Looks like they are ok in principal - but Fingal are looking for lots of changes and clarifications

Could be a stalling exercise, certainly this request for information will push it out a few months.

ozmo · 04-02-2015 2:51pm

Finglas Incubus wrote: »

Dead links, all documents related to the submission .

Funny that - just double checked now and both links work for me (Im using Chrome) - but yeah search using the Incubus link and click on sort by date - newest two are the decision ones.

Renno · 04-02-2015 3:00pm

Have to stick up for Fingal here. There are a massive number of improvements/alterations asked for in the decision, and the vast majority of them are purely aimed at delivering a better space and a more positive environment for the people that use and live in Clonsilla village.

As mentioned in previous posts, the village development plan identifies the site as suitable for mixed use, including retail. My problem has always been that the Aldi plans more or less completely ignored the Clonsilla development plan.

Fingal's requirements in the Decision (if complied with) would bring the plans in line with the plan.

donaghs · 04-03-2015 11:35pm

So, has there been any final decision on whether an Aldi can go ahead in Clonsilla?

Finglas Incubus · 05-03-2015 12:34pm

donaghs wrote: »

So, has there been any final decision on whether an Aldi can go ahead in Clonsilla?

Not yet, FCC have requested further information, see here. The decision, when made, will be posted at this link.

ozmo · 25-03-2015 4:15pm

Fingal got the info the were looking for this week - but the details don't appear to be on their site....

ozmo · 29-03-2015 7:05am

Documents are there now - over 20 new documents - no decision yet.

Same Finglas Incubus Search Link

00489901.pdf is the big document with their comments - most rest are supporting maps.

Seems mostly a bit of change to the car park to have a turnaround area on the village side (does this make entrance road,along the west side, narrower?), a turning right lane so as to not block traffic and they really want keep the sign?

stevekavo · 18-08-2015 3:08pm

ozmo wrote: »

Documents are there now - over 20 new documents - no decision yet.

Same Finglas Incubus Search Link

00489901.pdf is the big document with their comments - most rest are supporting maps.

Seems mostly a bit of change to the car park to have a turnaround area on the village side (does this make entrance road,along the west side, narrower?), a turning right lane so as to not block traffic and they really want keep the sign?

Received notification today planning permission has been granted.

ongarboy · 18-08-2015 3:16pm

stevekavo wrote: »

Received notification today planning permission has been granted.

Interesting - was out running last night and passed the site and did wonder what was going to happen. I think while traffic congestion will be a challenge, I think Clonsilla village lacks a proper commercial street as such and believe this added retail offer will enhance the village offering. If the proposed Weir mixed housing development with proper access/landscaping to the canal from the main road also gets approval, the whole area will become more attractive.

Zaph · 18-08-2015 7:46pm

I honestly can't believe they granted planning permission. The traffic backs up so far along the road when the level crossing is down, and now they're adding a supermarket to the mix? And of course before that there'll be the construction traffic. I'm glad it's not on any of my regular routes or I'd be pretty annoyed right now.

Finglas Incubus · 18-08-2015 8:25pm

Mixed emotions on the decision. On one hand, theres a real need for more in the way of retail outlets in the immediate area (the 'village' offerings are wholly inadequate for the local population) but not at the expense of setting precedent in terms of large scale development that has the potential to upset the character of the village.

The traffic impact study concludes that 'the proposed junction arrangements to access the application site can operate satisfactorily in accommodating the levels and types of traffic likely to be generated by the development in terms of traffic capacity'. In my view, this remains to be seen.

There will likely be future residential development at Weavers Row and nearby at the junction of the Clonsilla Road & Link Road (as per previous applications). Cars regularly queue on the Clonsilla Road to gain access to the Applegreen garage and in turn hold up traffic travelling towards the Hansfield Road. The level crossing at the train station is a known quantity in terms of creating queues of traffic down the road.

The study does not consider any of these points and instead focuses on the development in isolation. Time will tell.

dodzy · 19-08-2015 7:35am

As zaph has said, the level crossing is the problem here. It's a major bottleneck and should have been bridged years ago. I'm all for the development in theory, and jobs for the area are a definite plus, but their 'traffic impact study' findings are rubbish.

oblivious · 19-08-2015 8:42am

dodzy wrote: »

, but their 'traffic impact study' findings are rubbish.

The development Cunninghams funeral home had a much more critical analysis of their submission. They concluded that the 20 house would have a major impact on the area . Similar number of house but with the retail developem

Larbre34 · 19-08-2015 10:00am

Wouldn't be surprised if it was appealed. I don't think the traffic is the main issue with it though, more likely to be trading hours, delivery operations, construction disruption. Customer traffic will be spread out throughout the day and the peaks won't coincide with the train station peaks so I would expect queuing on Clonsilla Road to be a big issue, especially when there are alternative routes to back to the Ongar road.

KingMambo26 · 19-08-2015 10:15am

I find it ridiculous that they find it completely OK to allow deliveries to take place Mon-Sat between 7am and 11am. What? You mean right in the middle of morning traffic rush and school traffic as kids are being dropped to St Mochtas?

ThisRegard · 19-08-2015 12:34pm

Deliveries won't add much extra traffic, I think they have centralised distribution like Lidl, and most supermarkets for that matter, so it might just be the one big truck.

ongarboy · 17-09-2015 1:02pm

Development has now been appealed to An Bord Pleanala.

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/245446.htm

ozmo · 17-09-2015 1:18pm

Of the list of people in that notice - just wondering - is it an error that Aldi be listed as Appellant (objecting) or some other reason?

Aldi Stores (Ireland) Limited (Applicant)
Aldi Stores (Ireland) Limited (Appellant) (Active)

The Dark Knight · 17-09-2015 2:09pm

ozmo wrote: »

Of the list of people in that notice - just wondering - is it an error that Aldi be listed as Appellant (objecting) or some other reason?

Aldi Stores (Ireland) Limited (Applicant)
Aldi Stores (Ireland) Limited (Appellant) (Active)

Maybe they're appealing on not getting their large sign? :-)

ongarboy · 18-09-2015 10:35pm

ozmo wrote: »

Of the list of people in that notice - just wondering - is it an error that Aldi be listed as Appellant (objecting) or some other reason?

Aldi Stores (Ireland) Limited (Applicant)
Aldi Stores (Ireland) Limited (Appellant) (Active)

No, what that means is Fingal County Council refused planning permission to the applicant, Aldi or else significantly modified the terms of the planning application. And now Aldi are appealing to An Bord Pleanala to get the council decision overturned.

rockatansky · 18-09-2015 10:54pm

'Construction of a mixed use residential and retail including foodstore, off-licence, creche and 20 houses with all associated site works.'

Would Aldi own all of the above units? When it says Off Licence, is this referring to Aldi selling Alcohol in store or a separate off licence?

oblivious · 18-09-2015 10:57pm

Off sales like other supermarkets, but they are still require to get a pub licence

The Dark Knight · 18-09-2015 11:03pm

ongarboy wrote: »

No, what that means is Fingal County Council refused planning permission to the applicant, Aldi or else significantly modified the terms of the planning application. And now Aldi are appealing to An Bord Pleanala to get the council decision overturned.

Now check your facts first!
Fingal Co Co give planning permission a few weeks back. Only a few conditions attached, may be one of those that they are appealing.

ongarboy · 19-09-2015 3:16pm

The Dark Knight wrote: »

Now check your facts first!
Fingal Co Co give planning permission a few weeks back. Only a few conditions attached, may be one of those that they are appealing.

I didn't read the decision. I was just explaining why an applicant can also be an appellant. I did say that modifications (or conditions) to original application would be a reason why an applicant would appeal to An Bord Pleanala and also therefore be an appellant. Per your update above, it has to be one of the conditions they are appealing.

The Dark Knight · 19-09-2015 5:09pm

ongarboy wrote: »

I didn't read the decision. I was just explaining why an applicant can also be an appellant. I did say that modifications (or conditions) to original application would be a reason why an applicant would appeal to An Bord Pleanala and also therefore be an appellant. Per your update above, it has to be one of the conditions they are appealing.

:-) Fair enough.
Wonder exactly what decision(s) they are appealing.

Wish it would go ahead at this stage. The draft development plans submitted for the adjoining site look promising.....looks like there are plans for a few small retail units.

ozmo · 19-09-2015 6:34pm

The Dark Knight wrote: »

Maybe they're appealing on not getting their large sign? :-)

Good guess ! - The documents are up now
- some very strong objections from some of the locals - mostly about how its not in keeping with what Fingal had planned for the area and the narrow and busy access road.

and

Aldi want their sign back, saying its a commercial area.
Want to open earlier and until later
Not happy with the size of fine applied for leaving under the limit of green space.

amdublin · 17-01-2016 10:56pm

Anyone got any news on this?

Namer · 05-02-2016 9:04am

Refused by An Bord Pleannala, pleanala.ie/casenum/245446.htm

amdublin · 05-02-2016 9:23am

:eek:

Really? When? ?

Aldi site Clonsilla road

Comments