Selling nutritional food near hospitals?

Hannibal6.0 · 07-01-2014 4:51pm #1

The Idea/Question
Do you think there would be demand for nutritional food/drinks if they were sold in or outside of a hospital?

The background
Had a family member who required surgery recently and when visiting them I noticed how bad their food is. For example they were getting powdered eggs for breakfast and white bread with their meals.
Now I'm not a nutritionist, but I am big into strength training and have gained most of my knowledge on nutrition from that. However the foods that are being given out in hospitals from what I can see is far from what patients should be receiving.

I read the latest report from Mary Harney indicating that there is to be a reform in this area given the financial benefits that come with providing adequate nutrition to patients. http://www.dohc.ie/publications/pdf/undernutrition_hospital_guidelines.pdf?direct=1

When looking at the recommended foods here its all very general and bland, which I assume is purely down to cost.

I think a takeaway or juice bar could have some great potential if the whole thing was targeted towards this market. You could define products to help with certain illnesses etc and provide all of the nutritional content on the packaging.

I know when I am sick I will do anything to get better, I will eat/drink whatever I know will help. I was curious on whether if the option was available would other people do the same?

uberwolf · 07-01-2014 4:52pm

after a recent stint in Holles Street I can only agree. Nothing on the doorstep (and nothing in there!)

Alf Veedersane · 07-01-2014 4:56pm

Hospital budgets are being cut to the last so they'lll provide what they can once it fits within budget constraints. I would imagine there would a market for it. Whether or not the market from patients and visitors is big enough to sustain a business is a different matter.

Hannibal6.0 · 07-01-2014 5:29pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I would imagine there would a market for it. Whether or not the market from patients and visitors is big enough to sustain a business is a different matter.

Fair point, but I am sure products like these would also be of interest to the general public. James's would be a good example of a hospital that has a significant population around it.

thegreatiam · 07-01-2014 5:35pm

Hannibal6.0 wrote: »

Fair point, but I am sure products like these would also be of interest to the general public. James's would be a good example of a hospital that has a significant population around it.

and youll be competing with the chipper opposite.

Hannibal6.0 · 07-01-2014 5:37pm

thegreatiam wrote: »

and you'll be competing with the chipper opposite.

Probably wouldn't be your target audience now.. Killmainham side is close enough to Chocolate factory and HSQ though...

0ph0rce0 · 07-01-2014 5:38pm

When you've just squeezed a human out your hole the first thing you want is a Big Mac, you don't really be thinking ooohhh better watch the cal intake.

Alf Veedersane · 07-01-2014 5:39pm

There is still a perception that healthy eating is expensive. Consider the demographics of the area you would look to sell nutritious food.

Alf Veedersane · 07-01-2014 5:40pm

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

When you've just squeezed a human out your hole the first thing you want is a Big Mac, you don't really be thinking ooohhh better watch the cal intake.

And that brings an end to today's Biology lesson, kids.

thegreatiam · 07-01-2014 5:47pm

There is a guy i know through the grape vine who had great success with a mobile health food at the world series of poker last few years.

Basically he rocks up at the casino where 1000's of players are playing but cannot get up from their seats as they will lose out.

he tweets the menu, friends and customers inside (one of his business partners is an organizer so he had an in) retweet.

Anyone who wants a healthy alternative to the food provided at the event tweets back their order.

he makes it in a cart or van outside and hand delivers it.

and leaves to the next venue.

while its not the same it is a similar model, delivering alternative food to people who are stuck at a certain loacation and cannot go out to get their own or there is no other choice but to eat whats offered.

Coupled with the fact that he delivered hot healthy meals for a very low price direct you your lap with minimal effort, he really made a killing.

That buisiness model would work.

for a shop you are stuck in the area, and if the only customers are in the hospital then youre limited to your base. Health food shops would be in the area already if there was a strong market for it.

With a mobile van/cart and a set schedule you could hit 3 or 4 medical facilities in a day, plus a few offices.

offer cheap meal discounts to visitors and staff and get the nurses to help promote it.

Hannibal6.0 · 08-01-2014 10:17am

thegreatiam wrote: »

There is a guy i know through the grape vine who had great success with a mobile health food at the world series of poker last few years.

Basically he rocks up at the casino where 1000's of players are playing but cannot get up from their seats as they will lose out.

he tweets the menu, friends and customers inside (one of his business partners is an organizer so he had an in) retweet.

Anyone who wants a healthy alternative to the food provided at the event tweets back their order.

he makes it in a cart or van outside and hand delivers it.

and leaves to the next venue.

while its not the same it is a similar model, delivering alternative food to people who are stuck at a certain loacation and cannot go out to get their own or there is no other choice but to eat whats offered.

Coupled with the fact that he delivered hot healthy meals for a very low price direct you your lap with minimal effort, he really made a killing.

That buisiness model would work.

for a shop you are stuck in the area, and if the only customers are in the hospital then youre limited to your base. Health food shops would be in the area already if there was a strong market for it.

With a mobile van/cart and a set schedule you could hit 3 or 4 medical facilities in a day, plus a few offices.

offer cheap meal discounts to visitors and staff and get the nurses to help promote it.

Sounds more viable than a fixed location certainly, but would you not be limited in what you can produce and store using this method?

Alf Veedersane · 08-01-2014 10:23am

Hannibal6.0 wrote: »

Sounds more viable than a fixed location certainly, but would you not be limited in what you can produce and store using this method?

To a degree but that's not a big problem. You can have a few staples on the menu and then mix up what goes on it week-by-week. You can still establish yourself as a purveyor of good food and build up from there.

thegreatiam · 08-01-2014 10:25am

Hannibal6.0 wrote: »

Sounds more viable than a fixed location certainly, but would you not be limited in what you can produce and store using this method?

also keeps your bills down. As far as I know his menu is limited and different on a daily basis.
eg he will tweet out, "today I have A, B, C and D on the menu, tweet back what you want.

he only brings in enough for x meals. and makes to order. So he isnt carrying a surplus of stock and keeps his storage and wastage to a minimum.

while each meal is on a set menu everything is made on the spot so can be tweaked to suit the tastes.

If you only sell 4/5 different menu items per visit then you can probably do it with minimal ingredients.

Its not sandwhiches either , it chicken and rice, beef and vegetables etc, so really its all in the sauce.

Bear in mind ive assumed most of this info from twitter feeds I follow during the event. and his business partner is an old employer of mine.
either way, its been a success cos they have opened gym together in vegas over the last couple of months.

Off the top of my head the guy operates as "All American Dave" might have a facebook page you could look at. ill post it if I see it.

Edit

did a bit of looking around, seems that the food guy all american dave is coach and trainer, has a website etc under allamericandave.com
I assume he must train a few poker players as he was very active through jack effel's twitter feed at the world series this year.

He operates a food truck which seems to get about, has a shop etc

jack effel has the gym, not sure if they have a buisiness relationship but they certainly help promote each other via social media.

smilerxxx · 08-01-2014 10:37am

thegreatiam wrote: »

There is a guy i know through the grape vine who had great success with a mobile health food at the world series of poker last few years.

Basically he rocks up at the casino where 1000's of players are playing but cannot get up from their seats as they will lose out.

he tweets the menu, friends and customers inside (one of his business partners is an organizer so he had an in) retweet.

Anyone who wants a healthy alternative to the food provided at the event tweets back their order.

he makes it in a cart or van outside and hand delivers it.

and leaves to the next venue.

while its not the same it is a similar model, delivering alternative food to people who are stuck at a certain loacation and cannot go out to get their own or there is no other choice but to eat whats offered.

Coupled with the fact that he delivered hot healthy meals for a very low price direct you your lap with minimal effort, he really made a killing.

That buisiness model would work.

for a shop you are stuck in the area, and if the only customers are in the hospital then youre limited to your base. Health food shops would be in the area already if there was a strong market for it.

With a mobile van/cart and a set schedule you could hit 3 or 4 medical facilities in a day, plus a few offices.

offer cheap meal discounts to visitors and staff and get the nurses to help promote it.

It would be unethical for us to promote I'm afraid. Nutrition yes but paying for their meals we could not ask patients to do that. However i would use it as a patient. Just like I would get a family member to get me something. A big issue is meal times, dinner at 12.30 can be off putting for a lot of patients myself included. There's a whole generation that eat lunch at 12 and a dinner at 6-7 after work that find meal times in hospital unusual

Forgot to mention: there' a huge pool of staff HUGE that need wholesome tasty nutritional food to keep going for 12+ hours. Getting a menu to the nurses on the wards and delivering to the staff room. Well Id bite your hand off for it.

thegreatiam · 08-01-2014 10:52am

smilerxxx wrote: »

It would be unethical for us to promote I'm afraid. Nutrition yes but paying for their meals we could not ask patients to do that. However i would use it as a patient. Just like I would get a family member to get me something. A big issue is meal times, dinner at 12.30 can be off putting for a lot of patients myself included. There's a whole generation that eat lunch at 12 and a dinner at 6-7 after work that find meal times in hospital unusual

Yes maybe unethical to have nurses being paid to recommend food they don't necessarily use, will also go against the hospitals interest if they have concessions , but patients who are aware of the option will be willing to pay, its just another choice for them.

Loyalty cards and bring a friend deals can be made available to the general public which hospital staff would be permitted to take advantage of, and since they are really the only non transient customer base they will get the full benefit of any loyalty card promotion, and there is nothing wrong with a business offering a discount to service people.

Its not a big step for a nurse/Dr/Orderly to go from happy paying customer to recommending a healthy alternative when a patient bemoans the hospital food.

If you are aware of the service and are using it your self then there is nothing unethical about recommending it if someone asks where you got your tasty looking dinner. if that new customer brings a voucher which entitles both of you to a discount then that is also not unethical.

Word of mouth after that.

But that's down to the marketing.

my point is there is a similar business model which has shown some success. rather than a health food shop make it a food van or cart and it may be viable.
There are ways to reduce overheads and increase exposure.

smilerxxx · 08-01-2014 11:11am

The thing is, patients would not see us eat. Now the loyalty system would also be unethical I'm afraid. If I'm in a long stay unit and I have to shop for patients for toiletries and clothes etc I cannot use a loyalty card such as a boots card as I would essentially be profiting from said sale. There can be no reward I'm afraid.

My intention is not to be negative I would use the service myself. I just want to make you aware of some issues. I haven't even addressed the medical implications which would need to be discussed at hospital management level in conjunction with ward cnms and consultants. Such things as ability to swallow, nil by mouth, cognitive impairment. It might seem like a foregone conclusion that it would just be those who have all their abilities that look for your service but these issues would arise. There would not be staffing to observe.

thegreatiam · 08-01-2014 11:16am

smilerxxx wrote: »

The thing is, patients would not see us eat. Now the loyalty system would also be unethical I'm afraid. If I'm in a long stay unit and I have to shop for patients for toiletries and clothes etc I cannot use a loyalty card such as a boots card as I would essentially be profiting from said sale. There can be no reward I'm afraid.

Haha, I think you are misunderstanding.

You have a loyalty card.

The patient has a loyalty card.

you get stamps, he gets stamps. separately and exclusive.

I really think you might be looking into this too deeply. just because they dont see you eat doent mean they cant figure out you dont get your food from the canteen like they have to.
and if they ask you where is a nice place to get some non hospital food then its not unethical to say "theres a chipper around the corner or if you want at 1330 AllIrishSeamus comes around with a cart outside. You can tweet him what you want and he'll bring it up for you."

Really, there is no ethics here. its just about giving a service and rewarding word of mouth, same as any other business

smilerxxx · 08-01-2014 11:28am

I know I'm sounding terribly anal and that is not my intention. As I said Id love it as a patient and a member of staff.

Just beware of the red tape is all I should say I guess.

And you are correct we don't get to see all meals that are brought in.

Hannibal6.0 · 08-01-2014 11:40am

smilerxxx(or anyone else that has such insight) in your opinion would you say meals like the ones that AllAmericanDave makes http://www.allamericandave.com/food-truck/ would be better for patients than ones that are entirely focused on nutrition e.g through juices?

I am only thinking if you are targeting a hospital then you will of course encounter people with serious illnesses; for example anyone that has pancreatic cancer whereby food digestion and receiving enough immune building vitamins is extremely difficult.

smilerxxx · 08-01-2014 12:00pm

Thanks Hannibal. I'll take a look when I get back home. We all see the meals and groan so I know exactly where the op is coming from. Its the specialised diets that are important. For instance low potassium, diabetic, coeliac, high in vitamuns , super high calorie. These diets are some of the very important ones that we can ensure are adhered to.

Just one quick example. Marie* 17 is in a hospital in Dublin. Tweets for the most nutritious soup, wrap, veggie sticks. Sounds fab right. Roll up to deliver and your met by the nurse who tells you you can't deliver to Marie* no explanation no nothing WTF! Well Marie* is in hospital under the mental health act. She is dangerously underweight risking death so she has a super high calorie controlled eating plan. She just tried to avoid that. Not your fault. However you will never know why and you cannot ask

thegreatiam · 08-01-2014 12:12pm

smilerxxx wrote: »

Just one quick example. Marie* 17 is in a hospital in Dublin. Tweets for the most nutritious soup, wrap, veggie sticks. Sounds fab right. Roll up to deliver and your met by the nurse who tells you you can't deliver to Marie* no explanation no nothing WTF! Well Marie* is in hospital under the mental health act. She is dangerously underweight risking death so she has a super high calorie controlled eating plan. She just tried to avoid that. Not your fault. However you will never know why and you cannot ask

Its a valid point, but but how many potential customers are going to be on restrictive diets in this manner.

Obviously the best option is to work with the administration of the hospital to get approval for certain situations so you can supply an alternative approved meal, but i would think that is going to be a difficult ask.

So if you can't deliver specialised meal you'll need to know what % of people are not on controlled, but still restrictive diets and if there is still a profitable customer base.

At any given time how many people are in 1 hospital? a few thousand? Patients, medical staff, visitors, admin and maintenance etc
how many of them are eating lunch id say a good 80-90% at a guess.
how many of that group will be wanting a healthier option?
30% maybe? so you're still looking at maybe 500-1000 people who may be willing to use your service on any given day at a large hospital.

you don't have to cater to the specialised health diets, you can still offer a healthy option to the general public and let the hospital deal with the rest.

Of course getting the permission of the hospital to cater to the controlled diets would be a golden goose.

smilerxxx · 08-01-2014 12:21pm

That's exactly how to model it. Just an understanding of the complex nature of meals and if you provide solutions, guarantees etc and your half way there. Getting management on board is another thing altogether.

I'm all for innovation!

thegreatiam · 08-01-2014 12:27pm

smilerxxx wrote: »

That's exactly how to model it. Just an understanding of the complex nature of meals and if you provide solutions, guarantees etc and your half way there. Getting management on board is another thing altogether.

I'm all for innovation!

who currently provides the controlled meals to the patients? id say the contract is iron clad with the hospital and the caterer.

but you might get lucky and find its a burden to the current canteen and they would be glad to be shot of the extra hassle.

either way I think the mobile healthy option is a decent enough model that you don't need to restrict to hospitals.
Plenty of office parks would be glad of a healthy alternative.

Selling nutritional food near hospitals?

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