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Why does everyone have a 'disease' nowadays?

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    #62
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,991 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    It is a fact. I don't know how I can prove it to you. There's gangs of these people in every town in Ireland. You just stick your head in the sand there until a few doctors come out and admit that they are over prescribing people. (Not going to happen)

    It has already happened. You'll find it said in any balanced discussion of medicine. The policy is to treat as many people as possible while minimising over prescribing and misdiagnosis. If someone fakes symptoms of a mostly psychological illness, then what's the doctor to do? Order a full battery of tests as the cost of thousands just to avoid your malingering mares getting their jollies?

    Treat the patients. Some people will slip through the cracks but it's always the way with a system. Allow doctors to freestyle and you would have real problems. Likewise making every marginal case go for thousands of euro worth of tests and hospital man - hours.


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    #63
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    I'm addicted to cigarettes but thats not a disease, I'd call it a habit I can't get rid of. Why is alcohol addiction any different? I feel sorry for alcoholics, it must be horrible to not be able to go a day without booze, its horrible for they're families too. I just dont think alcoholism is a dissease.

    Addiction is not a choice, the initial choice to take a drink for most people does not result in destructive behaviour, in others it destroys everything. The insinuation that it is somehow a choice is misinformed IMHO. We all tried that first drink.


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    #64
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Up john 90s is the street name, it's printed on the tablets. Same thing. .......

    even better - the Upjohn company

    Dr. Upjohn invented modern friable pills

    http://img.ie/images/2015/06/30/aeae83dd4878988f56f448f61e8a6bcc.jpg


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    #65
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    FortySeven wrote:
    Addiction is not a choice, the initial choice to take a drink for most people does not result in destructive behaviour, in others it destroys everything. The insinuation that it is somehow a choice is misinformed IMHO. We all tried that first drink.

    I never said it was a choice? I didn't even say anything like that. I said its a habit/addiction and not a disease. No one wants to get addicted to any drug, be it tobacco or alcohol. No one becomes an alcoholic after 1 drink or addicted to smoking after 1 fag.


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    #66
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    gctest50 wrote:
    Dr. Upjohn invented modern friable pills


    Friable? As in fry up a few tablets with your full irish?


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    #67
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    dunno ...... that's what they called them

    aeae83dd4878988f56f448f61e8a6bcc.jpg


    not bad for something that started out in a basement


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    #68
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,098 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Friable? As in fry up a few tablets with your full irish?
    "Friable" means "easily crumbled". A friable pill is sufficiently solid that it's easy to handle and consume, and delivers a precisely measured dose of whatever drug is in it. But it breaks down very quickly in your digestive tract so you absorb the drug rapidly.

    Before the friable pill, taking drugs involved either careful measurement and handling of liquids and powders, or just taking round about more or less the correct dose. Which for some drugs is fine; for others, not so good.


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    #69
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Society isn't built that way. Nor is any modern economy. School and education in general gears us towards the 'safer' career paths. Not an occupation where you'll make a bomb. Just an occupation where'll you be able to survive with a decent enough quality of life. The reason that we can't all be novellists or individuals or artists or whatever profession you ascribe here is because creativity's payoff is based on population inversion. One singer needs a few thousand listeners. Regardless of whether there is only 10 singers, or 1 million, they still need a desired number of listeners to make their living. The problem is that the more singers you have the more dilution of listeners that will generally take place. To put it simply, if everyone was a career dependent singer, no one would ever make money from singing. Regardless of the number of singers, only a very small percentage will ever be in a position to make a career out of the discipline. That's the way the discipline works. Same for comedians, novelists, actors etc. These are niche areas where most people who try simply will not make it. Success stories may serve to motivate others, people should always chase their dreams but they should be realistic about their expectations. Most artists of any kind make sweet fck all money - and technology, or lack thereof, won't change that.



    .

    Creativity and individuality saturate every part of our life, not just the classic arts categories, they are needed in science, in family, in business, everywhere.

    The problem with these hippy schools is that they forget that even in the arts, at certain levels, its no different than business, you still have to produce on demand, they dont care how you feel....you have a job and you have to do it....it is still professional.

    You need a thick skin for the arts, you need to be able to work among a number of ifferent kinds of temperments, some are often difficult, and as lets say an orchestra leader or a film director, you need to be able to get others to o what you want and practise leadership skills.

    Many quit at the first hurdles because they cant get past the challenges.


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    #70
    TwoGallants
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭TwoGallants


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

    OP, pretending psychology doesn't exist is a bit mad. Do you not believe psychological processes exist or just psychological processes you haven't personally experienced?

    I believe that people have problems functioning on a day to day basis. I believe that most pyschologists don't really know what they're doing. Most are doing their best, but the fact is we really don't know much about the intricacies of the brain. I also believe various conditions are either a feature of normal human varience or an exaggeration/over diagnosis. I'm a skeptical, but I'm not a denier either.


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    #71
    Dr Bob
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 3,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dr Bob


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    ADHD = Bauld Bastard Syndrome



    Of course their parents are never going to think their little angel might be bold, must be something wrong with him. He needs meds. When all he needs is a good, educating parent!

    ...Right ..I dont normally bite on these troll posts but Feck it. I have adhd. Im 40 in a few months.
    Was diagnosed with it as kid. Had 2 loving parents ..we werent well off but not too bad.
    it was 1980s Ireland so after diagnosis feck all happened and there was no follow up.
    Unfortunatly Im one of the unlucky ones who didnt outgrow it.I was re diagnosed a few years back.
    In case anyones wondering the adult symptoms arent being " bold" (ffs...) .
    Theres a lot of innatention ..having conversations and having no memory of what was said. inabilty to follow directions ( step 1 step 2 ..and all of a sudden you're at step 17 with no idea what youve been doing). A lot of not being able to keep track of time..procrastinating on everything.
    So yeah youre thinking ..everyone does that .....except in Add/adhd its ALL you can do ..youve no control over your mental filters and even stuff like trying to follow a conversation in even a mildly busy pub is almost impossible as no matter how hard you try you keep focusing on other talk/noises around you.

    ..oh yeah ...and it usually comes with a free pick and mix sideorder of fun stuff like anxiety /depression/OCD/Anger issues etc
    AND then you have to put up with the internet "experts" and the usual " its all made up, only kids..big pharma ..smack in the head will sort them out ( ha! good luck with that)..bad parenting etc". Always a pleasure reading that..
    The one plus is that if you work with something you like you can actually give it 110% attention ..( called hyperfocusing )
    Exercise and diet help with ADD/ADHD.. for some people drugs work though ( after a long time I found a balance that worked for me" ).
    the TLDR
    It exists ( its thought to be caused by a nuerotransmitter imbalance and it is measureable by CAT scan).

    Its not just for kids.
    It is overdiagnosed in kids but not as much you'd think.

    It comes with a co-morbidity (look it up) of things like anxiety depression and ocd.

    You're welcome to try with me ..but smacking does not help .Also I will smack you back so good luck..:)


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    #72
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,991 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    TwoGallants wrote: »
    I believe that people have problems functioning on a day to day basis. I believe that most pyschologists don't really know what they're doing. Most are doing their best, but the fact is we really don't know much about the intricacies of the brain. I also believe various conditions are either a feature of normal human varience or an exaggeration/over diagnosis. I'm a skeptical, but I'm not a denier either.

    I see where you're coming from. How you view psychologist's ability to understand predict and control behaviour is a matter of perspective. In the past people didn't understand dyslexia so they beat the head off the children who stubbornly refused to read. Dyslexia is part of normal variation but we still treat it with coping strategies.

    Researchers research and find out how things work. Psychologists use that research to inform diagnosis and treatment.

    ADHD and ADD are detectable through MRI scans and that technology is getting better all the time. It's not surprising that it's a work in progress, an iterative process.

    Psychologists do know what they're doing. They follow guidelines and treat individuals in accordance with best practice and new research.

    To say they don't know what they're doing is to compare today's computer programmers to 20 years in the future and ignore all the progress made until now.

    ADHD is a difficult case because the symptoms overlap with symptoms ofnumerous other causes: behavioural, parenting, developmental, nutrition, social and even lack of exercise.

    Psychologists are constantly trying to improve understanding of the problems people face. I hope you appreciate the work they do.


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    #73
    lizzyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭lizzyman


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Are you actually for real? It's a well known fact that doctors are over prescribing xanx and valum up and down the country, and alot of the time these people don't need em. As I said, I have first hand experience of miss diagnosed depression.

    Actually, they're not. GPs are under huge pressure not to prescribe benzodiazepines like Xanax & Valium. Xanax is really only prescribed these days in cases of severe panic disorder or for the temporary relief of extreme anxiety.

    That whole class of medication had it's heyday between 1960ish to the late 1980s. GPs may prescribe them briefly to tide you over until an anti-depressant kicks in but the days of people being on them for weeks, months and years at a time are gone. The modern classes of anti-depressants have replaced them as the anxiolytics of choice and the Z-drugs are used for insomnia where all other non-pharmaceutical options have been exhausted.

    We already have very, very limited prescribing of some of these meds (scripts have to be handwritten by the GP, valid for only 14 days and no repeat prescriptions are allowed) and it's only a matter of time before they go the way of the barbiturates and become classed as controlled substances used only in the most extreme cases.

    The only real exception to this is elderly people who have been taking them for years as it would be sheer cruelty to force them to come off them at their age. They are also invaluable in preventing seizures in alcoholics who are going cold turkey.


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    #74
    lizzyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭lizzyman


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Up john 90s is the street name, it's printed on the tablets. Same thing.

    Alprazolam (Xanax) was developed by the UpJohn Company which was subsequently bought out by Pfizer. They still stamp the pills with the UpJohn logo.
    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Listen I'm not saying you dont need your tablets or that you dont have depression,or that every doctor is at it. I'm saying that theres people, alot of people getting prescribed these tablets, and sleeping tablets when they dont need them.

    Doctors are well aware of the street value of these drugs and know that people may fake symptoms in order to get their hands on them. They have to make a judgement call in each case whether to reach for the prescription pad or not. They are human and sometimes they make mistakes or get conned by someone.
    ComfortKid wrote: »
    And they're is people that do need them that are getting way to many of them.

    Sorry, but what qualifies you to say that?


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    #75
    oceanid
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭oceanid


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Alcoholics saying they have a disease is one of the worst, It's just a bad habit. Addiction.
    FortySeven wrote: »
    Destroying yourself, your family and damaging everyone and everything around you is addiction, be it condition or disease it is certainly not a bad habit.

    Addiction is a type of habit. If a habit can't be broken without difficulty it then becomes addiction. (It's still a habit though; it wouldn't stop being habit just because it's addiction).

    I think alcoholism can be thought of more accurately as mental illness. It includes addiction of course, but a type with more far-reaching consequences than say addiction to sugar, caffeine.

    Is mental illness a disease? I think it is. I think 'disease' can describe a larger category of things - some ongoing condition leading to less than good health.


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    #76
    oceanid
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭oceanid


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    Where there is more money, there is more diagnosis. Diagnosis is expensive so wealthier districts will have more assessment.
    With free medicine and services increasingly available, this is no longer the case as it would have been decades ago.

    The spread of socialism in general probably has a lot to do with it (in answer to the OP question).


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    #77
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,991 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yes socialism means that people who wouldn't have been able to afford health care years ago, can get it now. That means there are a few false positives among the huge number of correctly identified positive diagnosis. You sometimes hear people say cancer or child abuse are on the rise. In truth their identification are on the rise. It's a step I'm the right direction with a few mistakes thrown in. Its whinging about the fact that diagnosis isn't perfect, which is pretty silly really


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    #78
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    oceanid wrote: »
    With free medicine and services increasingly available, this is no longer the case as it would have been decades ago.

    The spread of socialism in general probably has a lot to do with it (in answer to the OP question).

    Nothing is free. Government is paying for the drugs. The companies still get their money.


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    #79
    oceanid
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭oceanid


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    Nothing is free. Government is paying for the drugs. The companies still get their money.
    It's free from the point of view of the people using it. The point being that availability has increased, regardless of who's paying for it.


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    #80
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    oceanid wrote: »
    It's free from the point of view of the people using it. The point being that availability has increased, regardless of who's paying for it.

    The point is there is still financial motivation to prescribe.


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    #81
    oceanid
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭oceanid


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    The point is there is still financial motivation to prescribe.
    There's financial motivation in the transactions so the companies make a profit. What's in it for the government funding it though? Assuming they'd be looking at statistics as to effectiveness, the health/ill-health of a population over time etc.


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    #82
    edward2222
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭edward2222


    TwoGallants wrote: »
    I feel sympathy for people who are suffering, but I'm increasingly jaded by the sheer number of people who cry 'I have a disease'. Like alcoholics for instance. I have a mate who likes to claim that he is one because he got really drunk for a couple of weeks after breaking up with his girlfriend. I call it a bender, he calls it a medical condition.

    Why do we entertain this?

    We go and see a doctor, the doctor barely looks at us and prescribes us pills. We take the pills like obedient little animals with very little thought of the consequences.

    As far as I can see, the only beneficiary is the pharma company.

    Which brings me to the root of my skepticism.

    In the past, I felt very depressed, almost to the point of hopelessness. I had a ****ty job, no life as such, living at home, achieving nothing. But I turned it around by embracing my life (and forcing myself to go to the gym) I went to a doctor and he gave me pills. I never took them. I had an epiphany of sorts. I recall saying, '**** the pills'.

    I think its our own fault that we feel that way,
    we're the ones who manages and give directions to our lives,
    if you feel depressed about your job, then its your fault why you choose that kind of job.
    I think we're the ones who knows whats best for our selves, we're the one who knows whats the problem and were the only one who can solve that problem.


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    #83
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    oceanid wrote: »
    There's financial motivation in the transactions so the companies make a profit. What's in it for the government funding it though? Assuming they'd be looking at statistics as to effectiveness, the health/ill-health of a population over time etc.
    Nothing in it really for government itself(the drugs are killing people through symptom management, instead of curing illness) But loads of back handers and "sponsorship" for keeping the drug companies busy.
    Since prescribing brings more profit than curing permanently, it is in one way a benefit for the government to keep it's populace in consumer mode, in order to bring in more outside investment.
    Minimum wages and high unemployment are similar incentives for outside investment.
    But.. you are assuming here that government is an entity that seeks to improve the effectiveness of the overall running of the country.
    In reality it is a company producing and comsuming on the international markets. The "CEO" dictate the ethos, not any legislation(which can and has been changed to suit).


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