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"Road Deaths not our fault" - McDowell

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    #32
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Mucco wrote:
    You can argue that enforcement would help, and it probably would, but I'm not convinced that abdicating personal responsibility is the way to go. Blame the government if you want, but it's the drivers causing the accidents.

    M

    Ok, I presume you have the answer then. Go on then, enlighten us.

    MrP


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    #33
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Hobbes wrote:
    Or they could be a driver who was given amnesty some years back rather then trying to test the amount of people without a license.

    Or they could be illegally driving without a license.

    blaming it all on the Provisionals is a bit of a cop out.
    over 80% of drivers on the road are legally allowed to do so !

    And besides some drivers on provisionals do have appear to qualified driver in the passenger seat.

    Still annoys me the numbers who use stealth L plates - with most of the white removed so you can't see them :rolleyes:


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    #34
    Mucco
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Mucco


    MrPudding wrote:
    Ok, I presume you have the answer then. Go on then, enlighten us.

    MrP

    Well, I didn't claim to have an answer, but, in my opinion it's about getting people to take responsibility for their own driving. It's not easy, we seem to have a culture of helping people drive badly.
    I have been in plenty of pubs at night where there's been a general announcement about what road the Gardai are on. There's the flashing of lights to warn people of speed traps etc...
    Education, as usual is the key.
    For example: Doing 60kph in the city insted of 50kph over a 10km distance only saves you 2 minutes. And that's assuming you don't get stopped at lights where a slower car would catch up with you anyway.


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    #35
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Mucco wrote:
    Well, I didn't claim to have an answer, but, in my opinion it's about getting people to take responsibility for their own driving.

    OK, so who to we get to get people to take responsibility for their own driving? Can you do it? Can you make a poor driver take responsibility for thier poor driving? Can I? No. I don't think so.
    Mucco wrote:
    It's not easy, we seem to have a culture of helping people drive badly.
    I have been in plenty of pubs at night where there's been a general announcement about what road the Gardai are on. There's the flashing of lights to warn people of speed traps etc...

    How do we change this behaviour? Who changes it? What is the motivation to get people to change? Where does the motivation come from?
    Mucco wrote:
    Education, as usual is the key.

    Wow. Education is the key is it? I wonder who is responsible for driver education. Hmmm, who could it be?

    I do agree that drivers should take responsibilty for their own actions. Look through this and the motors board and you will find loads of "I got done for driving in the bus lane. It wasn't my fault the junctino is badly designed." or "I just got done for speeding, the limit was too low."

    People choose not to obey the rules of the road. Why? Because either they don't know any better because they have not been trained properly or they simply decide not too because to not obey them has a positive impact on their life. Driving in the bus lane get them to work or home faster for example.

    How do we combat this? Train people better and make the risk of getting caught greater so the perceived benefit of breaking the rules is lessened.

    Now, what organisatino is responsible for driver training and law enforcement?

    MrP


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    #36
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,442 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Fair points.
    Just something I am wondering about.
    I have never lived outside of this country and wonder what
    a) The statistics for road deaths per car on the road are in other EU countries.
    b) The methods that other countries follow in educating the driving population.

    Anyone that can point me to a relevant website?


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    #37
    Mucco
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Mucco


    MrPudding wrote:
    Now, what organisatino is responsible for driver training and law enforcement?
    I get your point, and you are correct in that the government can do a lot more. However, my point is that education is a two-way street. People have to want to learn, drivers have to want to be safe, and not just blame someone else.
    I'm not really talking about extra training: the stats following the introduction of penalty points showed a sharp reduction in fatalities, so the knowledge is there. It's a matter of persuading people to drive like this the whole time.

    M


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    #38
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    kippy wrote:
    a) The statistics for road deaths per car on the road are in other EU countries.
    http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/file,1948,en.pdf Table 53: International Comparisons

    However, it isn't necessarily a useful statistic. Take two societies.

    Society A. Car orientated. Population 1 million. 1.0 cars per capita. 20 traffic deaths per year per 100,000.

    Cars 1 million.
    Deaths 200.
    Deaths per 1,000,000 cars: 200

    Society B. Public transport orientated. Population 1 million. 0.5 cars per capita. 10 traffic deaths per year per 100,000.

    Cars 500,000.
    Deaths 100.
    Deaths per 1,000,000 cars: 200

    I think we can say its safer to be in society B.


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    #39
    KeithMur
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭KeithMur


    With all the fatal accidents over the past few days, I have started looking at my own driving (400-500 miles per week) Now although I have always considered myself a good driver and a safe driver, I know I'm not as good as I could be and also not as safe as I should be. Driving along roads and keeping within the speed limits is quite a difficult thing as I do believe that keep up with the traffic flow is the best and safest way for everyone to get home safe and sound. But over the last few days I have been driving along at under the speed limit and I actually think that I may cause more of an accident now than when I just kept up with traffic.

    I drive home on the old Dublin road from Kilcock to Enfield to Kinnegad which is now a 80 kmp/h zone (why it can be more dangerous now that there is a new motorway besides it is beyond me) So driving along at 80kmp/h all I got was idiot bastards overtaking me on bad corners, before the hump in the road, over straight white lines. A guy started overtaking me about 500meters past Mother Hubards just before the hump in the road, then a car appeared at the top of the hill, he accelerated towards the on-coming car and I had to break to let him in. I beeped and flashed my lights and beeped again and all I got was him giving me the fingers. Its completely outragous.

    I always think back to the saying that "Right is still right even if everyone is against it and wrong is still wrong even if everyone is for it" but I fear I may be putting my life on the line even more if I continue to "obey the laws."

    What do people reckon?


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    #40
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Mucco wrote:
    I get your point, and you are correct in that the government can do a lot more. However, my point is that education is a two-way street. People have to want to learn, drivers have to want to be safe, and not just blame someone else.

    It does not really matter whether people want to learn properly or not. The system to allow people to learn safely is simply not there. I agree that education is a too way street, part of it id the person learning and part of it is the government. With the best will in the world a person that really wants to learn properly and safely is let down because the governments side of the two way street is fcuking dug up and no use to anyone.

    The other side of this is there is a section of the public that can't be arsed learning properly. People that want to learn properly & the general public at large need protectino from these people. It is the job of the government to protect its citizens.

    Mucco wrote:
    I'm not really talking about extra training: the stats following the introduction of penalty points showed a sharp reduction in fatalities, so the knowledge is there. It's a matter of persuading people to drive like this the whole time.

    M

    Yes, the knowledge is there, of that there is no doubt. Better training, however should still have a more positive effect. Its not like if we reduce road death even further people will complain we are doing too much. :D

    People here keep saying it is a matter of persuading people to drive properly. I will ask again, who has the responsibility to do the persuasion?

    MrP


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    #41
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    From Jack Dee-
    'I'm an excellent driver, and I never speed.... except when I'm in a hurry'

    imo, its nothing to do with training, vast majority of drivers are well capable of driving safely they just don't do it.

    Problem is the way its enforced - 70/80/90, even 100mph is not dangerous in the right car on the right roads in the right conditions.
    One pint does not turn a good driver into a maniac.

    Dangerous is overtaking when you can't see far enough to be sure its safe, driving through a red light, turning right from the left lane, tail-gating, driving when you've been up for 22 hours, yapping on the phone, not wearing seat-belts, not making sure you're kids are strapped in.

    Stupid stuff basically, where you know better.

    Lets see a standard 2-year ban for breaking a red light, see how long before that goes out of fashion.


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