Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 12:59pm

shankespony wrote: »

Eirebear, sorry to hear about your club, and fairplay for coming on the website and expressing your views. I know alot of very decent rangers fans who love their club and i empathize because i'd be devastated if it was celtic. U are not responsible for what has happened and the amount of stick you get for posting is from people who have never met a rangers fan is not merited.

lol - sure we need to let some of these poor lads know that life exists outside their little circle, the wonders of the internet eh?

shankespony wrote: »

I think personally a revamp of the leagues and first division would satisfy me, division 3 would be too far in imo, but demotion to Div1 would be a fair compromise will the other sanctions that have been dished out. I am puzzled that there has been a significant lack of contrition from the club, and smith, mccoist, durrant etc have to clarify the EBT position.

I think the SFA's proposals to merge the bodies back together can only be a good thing, there is far too much infighting and squabbling in Scotland's authorities - and one body should run the show.
I'd honestly have no issue with us being sent to the 3rd division as a Newco, but the SPL/SFA are gonna have to show some balls to do it.
As for the EBT's etc - I agree, we need clarity on it, but then we've been asking for Clarity since the last few years of Murray's reign....

shankespony wrote: »

I hope alls well in donegal, even though you pumped my team yesterday!

I saw that alright, don't follow the GAA really - but it's always nice to see them win!

Jelle1880 · 17-06-2012 2:11pm

I'm starting to hear rumours that the SFA could (after this whole revamp is done) demote Rangers to the equivalent of Div1.

Meaning that if Rangers do get promoted they will only be without the Old Firm games for 1 season, which means that Sky may very well be tempted to come back into it.

It would also allow the SFA to say 'But we did punish them see!'.

For what it's worth: **** them if that's their idea.

TheBuilder · 17-06-2012 2:17pm

I heard that as well, seemingly Sky are willing to play ball on the idea of no rangers v celtic for one season, the deal will then rely on whether we get promoted or not.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 2:19pm

I'd have hoped this SFA merger would have led o some forward thinking.
I guess not!

jack presley · 17-06-2012 2:23pm

What would Rangers fan like to see happen?

Jelle1880 · 17-06-2012 2:45pm

The majority that I know would accept demotion to Div3 and work our way back up.

This would mean two things:

1. Most other clubs would stop their moaning about how we won't be punished
2. The SPL won't be able to use Rangers as a cash cow while crippling us financially.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 3:07pm

TheBuilder wrote: »

I heard that as well, seemingly Sky are willing to play ball on the idea of no rangers v celtic for one season, the deal will then rely on whether we get promoted or not.

Sky should have no input into how the league is run, how it punishes clubs when they mess up.

blahfckingblah · 17-06-2012 3:10pm

I hate the way many are talking about the sky deal like our lives depend on it, it should be a bonus for clubs not the mainstay of their survival same goes for European football.

TheBuilder · 17-06-2012 3:11pm

Dempsey wrote: »

Sky should have no input into how the league is run, how it punishes clubs when they mess up.

Unfortunately Sky get too much power over football these days. There's a reason they're now paying 6.6million for every EPL game they show from 2013-16.

TheBuilder · 17-06-2012 3:12pm

blahfckingblah wrote: »

I hate the way many are talking about the sky deal like our lives depend on it, it should be a bonus for clubs not the mainstay of their survival same goes for European football.

Nobody wants out lives to depend it, it's reality unfortunately.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 3:12pm

blahfckingblah wrote: »

I hate the way many are talking about the sky deal like our lives depend on it, it should be a bonus for clubs not the mainstay of their survival same goes for European football.

Absolutely correct, too many clubs are dependant on income that they do not control. Its a shocking way to run a business.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 3:13pm

TheBuilder wrote: »

Unfortunately Sky get too much power over football these days. There's a reason they're now paying 6.6million for every EPL game they show from 2013-16.

They dont decide punishments in the EPL, why should they have an input in the SPL?

TheBuilder · 17-06-2012 3:14pm

Dempsey wrote: »

They dont decide punishments in the EPL, why should they have an input in the SPL?

Did I say they should? No.

My reference to the EPL was because it shows Sky are buying power because as much as we don't like it they control a lot from fixtures to kick off times. Too many teams, and as a result the SPL/SFA are relying on it and will let themselves be influenced, as much as we don't agree with it.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 3:19pm

TheBuilder wrote: »

Did I say they should? No.

Then why be on about the amount of money they can inject into a game when I'm on about them dangling a carrot to punish a club in a certain way and the way they shouldnt have an input into how clubs are punished?

TheBuilder · 17-06-2012 3:20pm

Sorry I edited my previous post.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 3:31pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18476930

Rangers will not appear on the official Scottish Premier League fixture list for 2012-13 when it is published at 09:00 BST on Monday.

Instead, the soon-to-be liquidated club will be replaced with "Club 12".

Club 12 eh?

jack presley · 17-06-2012 3:35pm

I wonder will the fixture list come up with Celtic v Club 12 around Christmas time?

A Dub in Glasgo · 17-06-2012 4:13pm

It is obvious that they are just going to find and replace 'Rangers' with 'Club 12' in the fixture list

Old Gill · 17-06-2012 4:29pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The majority that I know would accept demotion to Div3 and work our way back up.

This would mean two things:

1. Most other clubs would stop their moaning about how we won't be punished
2. The SPL won't be able to use Rangers as a cash cow while crippling us financially.

As a celtic fan but trying to be impartial (for the sake of this post anyway

) I think starting in division 3 would be best for the new rangers club as well as scottish football. Fans of other clubs can have solace that justice has taken place whereas fans of the new club can enjoy rebuilding away from the pressures of having to compete for titles etc. By the time they reach the spl they will have grown, strengthened and the new rivalry will also add a bit of a boost to the league, perhaps giving it a new lease of life. Allowing them to go straight in would kill attendances for all clubs. Their fans can also enjoy a change of scenery at tiny away grounds for a few years (this isnt sarcastic id love a few seasons building up from league 2 in england, packing out accrington, bury etc)

monkey9 · 17-06-2012 4:43pm

Most opinion about Rangers going bust is that it will have a negative impact on Scottish football and i suppose it does, especially financially in terms of tv deals and other clubs not getting the money from Rangers fans at their ground.

But could there be any positives to be taken from this? Would the players that would normally go to Rangers as well as Celtic, with no Rangers maybe instead they'll go to the likes of Hearts or Motherwell etc. This could help them grow as clubs and establish them as title challengers to Celtic.

I know Celtic will probably win the league over the next few seasons, but if Hearts etc can establish a reputation for themselves in terms of success , that could help them be stronger and bigger than before.

So, by the time the new Rangers gets back up to the top division, the top of the Scottish league could be more competitive than before and not just a two horse race every season!

the realpigiron · 17-06-2012 5:35pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The majority that I know would accept demotion to Div3 and work our way back up.

I agree and think that this would be the best option for all concerned including the NewcoRangers.

Serious question - isn't it within the power of NewcoRangers to make this decision themselves regardless of the views of the other SPL clubs? Can't they simply set up their new club and apply to enter Scottish football at Div 3 level themselves seeing as - as you say - this is what most of their potential supporters want?

A Dub in Glasgo · 17-06-2012 5:41pm

Yes they can but that is not the reason Green has bought the assets. He wants a relatively short term return on his investment

the realpigiron · 17-06-2012 5:51pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yes they can but that is not the reason Green has bought the assets. He wants a relatively short term return on his investment

If he was smart he'd make a good return on his investment within 3 years when a newco team would be back in the SPL with a new momentum and a bit of a buzz probably. If the new club go straight into the SPL under a cloud with conditions attached, they wont get that rebirth momentum.

lubo_moravcik · 17-06-2012 6:10pm

Demotion to Div 3? How can a new club face a demotion, surely The Rangers going to any of the 4 Scottish divisions is a promotion

Ludo · 17-06-2012 8:24pm

IF rangers are allowed stay in the premier league...is this not an lawsuit waiting to happen from lower league teams who feel hard done by? Haven't seem any mention of that anywhere really.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 8:28pm

Ludo wrote: »

IF rangers are allowed stay in the premier league...is this not an lawsuit waiting to happen from lower league teams who feel hard done by? Haven't seem any mention of that anywhere really.

Livingston have threatened legal action already

PauloMN · 17-06-2012 8:34pm

The whole thing is baffling to me tbh. How it is even up for discussion that an SPL club that has gone to the wall is possibly going to get replaced by a new club is completely beyond me and makes a mockery of the SPL/SFL. There should be no voting, no discussion. A new club is a new club and should enter the league like any other new club.

Best for Newco, best for the other clubs, best for Scottish football.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 8:34pm

Ludo wrote: »

IF rangers are allowed stay in the premier league...is this not an lawsuit waiting to happen from lower league teams who feel hard done by? Haven't seem any mention of that anywhere really.

Dempsey wrote: »

Livingston have threatened legal action already

I guess it depends on the situation with the SFA/SPL/SFL in that case - if it's still seperate then it comes down to who makes the final decision too.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 8:38pm

PauloMN wrote: »

The whole thing is baffling to me tbh. How it is even up for discussion that an SPL club that has gone to the wall is possibly going to get replaced by a new club is completely beyond me and makes a mockery of the SPL/SFL. There should be no voting, no discussion. A new club is a new club and should enter the league like any other new club.

Best for Newco, best for the other clubs, best for Scottish football.

Not good for idiot clubs like Kilmarnock though, they've based their whole financial model around things they dont control!

Savage Tyrant · 17-06-2012 8:49pm

I genuinely think starting from Div 3 would be the best option for the newco and their supporters. All gloating aside.
It's the only option that offers any dignity from the situation. Starting from the bottom and working back up.
What dignity is there for anyone to start in the SPL and be severly hamstrung?

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 8:59pm

The SPL gets enough snipes without sporting integrity being dragged through the gutter. I never cared whether Rangers got liquidated or not. I just want all the shenanigans to come into the public domain and the correct punishments applied. I find the idea that a club can be beyond punishing properly sickening. I find the mindset of Michael Johnston disgusting and I wish nothing but successive relegations for Kilmarnock

Guy:Incognito · 17-06-2012 9:04pm

Dempsey wrote: »

Livingston have threatened legal action already

Is the SPL not a seperate entity as it stands, like the EPL and can nominate whoever the hell they want to play in their league?

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 9:09pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is the SPL not a seperate entity as it stands, like the EPL and can nominate whoever the hell they want to play in their league?

They threatened the SFA if they dont punish Rangers appropriately

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/livingston/99924-livingston-threaten-legal-action-against-scottish-fa-over-rangers-situation/

I suppose they cant do anything to the SPL if the newco gets SPL status

A Dub in Glasgo · 17-06-2012 9:39pm

Dempsey wrote: »

I find the mindset of Michael Johnston disgusting and I wish nothing but successive relegations for Kilmarnock

True with the likes of Shiels asking for an anonymous vote so that none of them can be held accountable by the fans

Jelle1880 · 17-06-2012 10:42pm

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Demotion to Div 3? How can a new club face a demotion, surely The Rangers going to any of the 4 Scottish divisions is a promotion

Not if it's the same club...

PauloMN · 17-06-2012 10:43pm

Dempsey wrote: »

The SPL gets enough snipes without sporting integrity being dragged through the gutter. I never cared whether Rangers got liquidated or not. I just want all the shenanigans to come into the public domain and the correct punishments applied. I find the idea that a club can be beyond punishing properly sickening. I find the mindset of Michael Johnston disgusting and I wish nothing but successive relegations for Kilmarnock

It's the whole notion of clubs being able to decide whether another club is allowed in or not. It's ridiculous. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" etc..

There'll be years of problems resulting if a Newco is voted straight into the SPL.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 11:08pm

Paul, do you honestly believe the notion of "well scratch your back..." To be the case?
Do you honestly believe that any of the clubs thinking about keeping Rangers in the SPL are doing so as some sort of favour to Rangers?
I certainly don't, and the vast majority of bears certainly don't.

It's odd, Rangers supporters have taken dogs abuse from all areas because we have talked about boycotting the SPL if we are used as some sort if crutch to the likes of killie, yet as soon as a few hundred sheep fans talk of boycotts, everyone is right behind them.
I don't get it.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 11:18pm

Eirebear wrote: »

Paul, do you honestly believe the notion of "well scratch your back..." To be the case?
Do you honestly believe that any of the clubs thinking about keeping Rangers in the SPL are doing so as some sort of favour to Rangers?

You cant rule it out though, these clubs are heavily in debt and run their clubs in a short sighted manner. They will see the newco getting back into the SPL as a green light to follow suit. Celtic and St. Mirren are the only clubs with minimal debts AFAIK

PauloMN · 17-06-2012 11:23pm

Eirebear wrote: »

Paul, do you honestly believe the notion of "well scratch your back..." To be the case?
Do you honestly believe that any of the clubs thinking about keeping Rangers in the SPL are doing so as some sort of favour to Rangers?
I certainly don't, and the vast majority of bears certainly don't.

I don't believe it is directly some form of favour to Rangers, no. I do believe - as others have said - that some clubs seem to rely so heavily on the few quid that away fans bring in, and the perceived drop in TV money, that they would disregard the fact it's plain wrong to vote a newco into the SPL and vote in favour of a Newco Rangers joining the SPL.

If that happens, I think it would be naive to think that Newco Rangers would not be "reminded" of those votes that allowed them into the SPL - when it comes to future votes on other league issues.

Am I missing something here? What are the SPL rules to entry? Surely there are rules in black and white that state clearly what the rules are. Are they stupid enough not to have catered for this scenario, where a member club effectively shuts down and a free slot is created? Are the other SPL member clubs having to vote on this because there's no rule for this situation?

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 11:24pm

I'm not ruling it out, I think there is a very high chance it could happen. I don't see it as a favour to Rangers though as I think it could hurt us more than a demotion in the long run.
I've said this all along, and I'm not the only one but for some reason fans if other clubs see it as giving Rangers what they want.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 11:30pm

Paul I actually think its a combination of the rules not being up to scratch and the other clubs seeing a chance to milk Rangers (and Celtic) for more cash than they do already by bringing back shared gate reciepts etc.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 11:43pm

Sevco getting back into the SPL will damage the Scottish game for decades, there will be a stigma attached worse than anything that has gone before.

You are applying for SPL status rather than SFL status so by definition you are looking to get what you want.

Is it just fan chatter or has some club mentioned bringing back shared gate receipts?

EDIT

I do agree that the rules arent up to scratch, the SPL, SFA & SFL have all been shown up

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 11:58pm

Dempsey wrote: »

Sevco getting back into the SPL will damage the Scottish game for decades, there will be a stigma attached worse than anything that has gone before.

You are applying for SPL status rather than SFL status so by definition you are looking to get what you want.

Is it just fan chatter or has some club mentioned bringing back shared gate receipts?

EDIT

I do agree that the rules arent up to scratch, the SPL, SFA & SFL have all been shown up

It would be foolish for Green and those running Rangers not to apply for SPL status as it stands, but from a supporters point of view i would say a large majority of us would rather be put in the 3rd division than face years of financial strangleholds and points deuctions in the SPL
(But hey, since when did we get a say?)

The "SPL 10" denied that they were after shared gates a few months ago, but it still appears in stories and columns in the media from time to time - let's face it, if they get the voting system changed they can pretty much head down whatever road they want.

bobmalooka · 18-06-2012 12:07am

Eirebear wrote: »

I'm not ruling it out, I think there is a very high chance it could happen. I don't see it as a favour to Rangers though as I think it could hurt us more than a demotion in the long run.
I've said this all along, and I'm not the only one but for some reason fans if other clubs see it as giving Rangers what they want.

The Rangers have never played a game of football so how can they be demoted?

Dempsey · 18-06-2012 12:11am

Eirebear wrote: »

It would be foolish for Green and those running Rangers not to apply for SPL status as it stands, but from a supporters point of view i would say a large majority of us would rather be put in the 3rd division than face years of financial strangleholds and points deuctions in the SPL
(But hey, since when did we get a say?)

The "SPL 10" denied that they were after shared gates a few months ago, but it still appears in stories and columns in the media from time to time - let's face it, if they get the voting system changed they can pretty much head down whatever road they want.

Yea, you are right to apply but dont be giving it the "not our fault we are applying for the SPL" routine imo, ye havent exactly done alot of complaining about the application!

The "SPL 10" sums up everything that is wrong with Scottish Football. If the ilk of shared gate receipts is best they can come up with, they should all be banned from being involved with football clubs, knuckleheads! I dont know what the answer is but adopting the best parts of the German Football model wouldnt be a half bad start.

Eirebear · 18-06-2012 12:13am

bobmalooka wrote: »

The Rangers have never played a game of football so how can they be demoted?

yeah yeah yeah, look we can pick up on the finer points of semantics later if you wish - right now we're discussing the future of scottish football.

Eirebear · 18-06-2012 12:18am

Dempsey wrote: »

Yea, you are right to apply but dont be giving it the "not our fault we are applying for the SPL" routine imo, ye havent exactly done alot of complaining about the application!

The "SPL 10" sums up everything that is wrong with Scottish Football. If the ilk of shared gate receipts is best they can come up with, they should all be banned from being involved with football clubs, knuckleheads! I dont know what the answer is but adopting the best parts of the German Football model wouldnt be a half bad start.

What can we do about it really?
I don't have an issue with the actual application, it should be up to the authorities and/or member clubs to decide our fate - my only wish is that we are punished fairly, and similarly to anyone else in this situation and not be treated differently because we are seen as a way of making money for short sighted chairmen.

I agree on the German model, i'm sure it could be adapted to our game, but untill we clear out all the old boys club and all of the little cliques who run the game to their own ends out we havnt a hope of any progression no matter what systems are in place.

bobmalooka · 18-06-2012 12:21am

Eirebear wrote: »

yeah yeah yeah, look we can pick up on the finer points of semantics later if you wish - right now we're discussing the future of scottish football.

semantics :eek: the vulture Green has fooled you too

The best for The Rangers is to join the SFL from the bottom and build a solid stable club.

The best for Greens 'quick sale' route is to get them into the SPL by hook or bt crook. It'll destroy the league and your new club.

Eirebear · 18-06-2012 12:25am

bobmalooka wrote: »

semantics :eek: the vulture Green has fooled you too

The best for The Rangers is to join the SFL from the bottom and build a solid stable club.

The best for Greens 'quick sale' route is to get them into the SPL by hook or bt crook. It'll destroy the league and your new club.

I'm not fooled by anybody - but at the end of the day my use of the word "demoted" is neither here nor their in the grand scheme of this discussion.

bobmalooka · 18-06-2012 12:31am

Eirebear wrote: »

I'm not fooled by anybody - but at the end of the day my use of the word "demoted" is neither here nor their in the grand scheme of this discussion.

good, he's relying on people like you to buy into his crap and pump your hard earned cash into his pockets before he drops the club.

There seems to be an awfull lot of rangers fans who seem to think its all semantics and things will be back to normal come August. This mentality will allow Green to screw ye over.(and butcher the SPL while hes at it)

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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