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Laws influenced by religious opinion

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    #122
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    philologos wrote: »
    You might want to read the OP. This could be useful for people who claim it is a misconception that atheists often confuse secularism with shutting people of faith out of politics.

    Yes because one single post bolsters the use of the word "often".

    Even then your claim is made weaker by the fact that the OP does not express any such thing. Note the Question marks. They look like this: "?". Using it he is raiding the topic for discussion, not expressly espousing that question. If I said "Should women pregnant with DS babies be forced to abort them?" I would be raising that as a conversation topic, not suggesting that that is the position I myself hold.

    So you are wrong on two counts:

    1) The OP is not saying what you claim he is saying and
    2) One single OP post does not mean "often".

    But do not let that stop you on your usual campaign of tarring people you disagree with with propaganda straw men of your own construction.


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    #123
    Feathers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    Leftist wrote: »
    Are there any current laws in irish society that are influenced specifically by a religious group?

    for instance we all know about the former ban on contraception and divorce, the former was obviously a religious law.

    And should religious groups be banned from lobbying the government on law making decisions?

    for instance gay marraige?

    Imo, I can't really see how person A can expect person B to live by their religious rules? surely you can see that it's a belief? it's your right to have that belief but how can anyone expect others to live by that doctrine?

    Discuss.
    Feathers wrote: »
    Its not about removing all religious voices from the room (as the idea the OP put forward with his open question).
    Leftist wrote: »
    Nope.

    I don't recall saying that and if I did it wasn't my intention.

    I specifically mean laws which are dictated by religious views.

    I think I cleared that about a dozen times.

    Please tell me how I could've phrased this less controversially to avoid the backlash, I'd love to know. I didn't say it was what you were saying, which is why I deliberately tried to soften the language I used — I said that you 'put the idea forward' with an 'open question'.

    If you didn't want the point discussed, don't post it :confused:


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    #124
    Leftist
    Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    philologos wrote: »
    You might want to read the OP. This could be useful for people who claim it is a misconception that atheists often confuse secularism with shutting people of faith out of politics.



    The answer is of course not any more than Atheist Ireland shouldn't be banned from lobbying on the basis of atheism.

    I don't think you understand the concept of secularism very much. It doesn't mean that people can't advocate X or Y even on the basis of a religious text, what it does mean is that all political decision making should be based on merit not no holy book X or Y.

    As for schools, I'd be an advocate of the Irish system making more secular schools as is the case in Britain (66% secular 33% faith schools) to allow choice to parents.

    The problem is when some atheists insist that secularism means stamping out faith from society when it clearly never has done if we look back to the early years of the United States for example.

    While the original question is open for interpretation I have made it clear, to you on various occassions, that my opinion that appealing or influencing law on religious grounds should be discounted and rejected.

    As for secularism, I don't care what america did in the late 18th century. It's not a guidance for me.

    I agree that the majority of schools should be non-denominational. If religious families want to send their children to religious schools then they should also have that right.


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    #125
    Leftist
    Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    Feathers wrote: »
    Please tell me how I could've phrased this less controversially to avoid the backlash, I'd love to know. I didn't say it was what you were saying, which is why I deliberately tried to soften the language I used — I said that you 'put the idea forward' with an 'open question'.

    if you didn't want the point discussed, don't post it :confused:
    fair enough, I misinterpreted your post.


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