Frongoch internment camp.

Dalcassian · 07-04-2010 5:27pm #1

Hi, Am doing family history and have come across a story that two of my uncles were involved in the 1916 Rising. They were interned in Frongoch internment camp. I would like to know if there is a list of prisoners available anywhere.
Thanks guys

Morlar · 07-04-2010 5:32pm

There was a good documentary about Frongoch on the other night. I think your best bet may be the Irish National Archives - military archives section :

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/contactus/MilitaryArchivesClosureLetter.html

however they are currently temporarily closed. Hopefully someone may have a better suggestion before they re-open. I am not aware of any online sources for this information.

R.Dub.Fusilier · 07-04-2010 7:07pm

if you can get a copy of "FRONGOCH . University of Revolution" by Sean O'Mahony . the appendices have a list of internies county by county . if you put up their names and counties i'll see if they are listed.

walrusgumble · 07-04-2010 9:24pm

Morlar wrote: »

There was a good documentary about Frongoch on the other night. I think your best bet may be the Irish National Archives - military archives section :

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/contactus/MilitaryArchivesClosureLetter.html

however they are currently temporarily closed. Hopefully someone may have a better suggestion before they re-open. I am not aware of any online sources for this information.

go to the history videos/clip thread, there is a tg4 documentary on Frognoch there. Its via youtube but the whole show can be seen

Robus · 25-04-2010 9:09am

Dalcassian wrote: »

I would like to know if there is a list of prisoners available anywhere.

Try

http://www.theeasterrising.eu/080WhoWasWhere/RollOfHonour.htm

telula · 19-09-2010 8:50pm

there is some wonderful info in the National Museum at Collins Barracks. You can find where your uncles were positioned on the day of The Easter Rising with just a few small details. they have touch-screen monitors that you can use yourself.
they have a small display with items from Frongoch, including decorated clay pipes.
Also they have autograph books with entries by many of the prisoners.
the staff in there were really helpful for me
I have a similar situation and am currently looking into it. if you made any progress with your enquires id appreciate some tips

Morlar · 19-09-2010 11:23pm

There is also some Frongoch prison art on display at Kilmainham. Here are a few pics :

http://www.militaria-archive.com/museums/kilmainham/index.html

johnny_doyle · 19-09-2010 11:35pm

for a list of names and locations try :

http://irishmedals.org/gpage.html

The 1916 Rebellion Handbook is another good source listing those killed, buried, arrested/deported/released etc.

Why not put your Uncles name up and see what the forum delivers re them?

Just finished reading Uncommon Valour by Paul O'Brien dealing with the South Dublin Union. Worth a read.

Denerick · 20-09-2010 4:38pm

What do you do with a load of defeated revolutionaries? Thats right, throw them all in on top of each other in a confined space.

Some of the best ideas of the war of independence were cooked up in those cells

Dalcassian · 23-04-2011 12:03am

Thank you, John Doyle. Found my uncle there. No problem. fantastic site.

Dionysus · 06-09-2011 10:17pm

Is that excellent list posted above a comprehensive list? I know of somebody who was interned in Frongoch but had apparently been party to reading the proclamation and other activity in a town in Co. Kildare. The list above only lists people in Dublin, although I note his (common) name appears several times on it.

Would anybody have a list of the Frongoch people and where they were from?

Thanks.

Nhead · 07-09-2011 1:35pm

Dionysus wrote: »

Is that excellent list posted above a comprehensive list? I know of somebody who was interned in Frongoch but had apparently been party to reading the proclamation and other activity in a town in Co. Kildare. The list above only lists people in Dublin, although I note his (common) name appears several times on it.

Would anybody have a list of the Frongoch people and where they were from?

Thanks.

What town?Was it Maynooth?

Dionysus · 07-09-2011 5:09pm

Nhead wrote: »

What town?Was it Maynooth?

Athy.

Robus · 07-09-2011 6:26pm

Dionysus wrote: »

Would anybody have a list of the Frongoch people and where they were from? .

Yes I have the full

The National Museums' "Roll of Honour",
Arrests ,transfers, detention and release lists from Irish & English Prisons.
Frongoch Camp in North Wales "Roll Call"
the "Statements to the Bureau of Military History"
The Catholic Bulletin 1916 - 1919 "Easter Week" articles on the killed in Action
Court Martial results for May 1916
Internment of Bodies in the Dublin Cemeteries

all in one database

Just ask

PS I found 15 John Doyle & another 10 J Doyle entries, I would guess covering 12 different John / J Doyles

Dionysus · 07-09-2011 7:12pm

Robus wrote: »

Yes I have the full
The National Museums' "Roll of Honour",

Arrests ,transfers, detention and release lists from Irish & English Prisons.

Frongoch Camp in North Wales "Roll Call"

the "Statements to the Bureau of Military History"

The Catholic Bulletin 1916 - 1919 "Easter Week" articles on the killed in Action

Court Martial results for May 1916

Internment of Bodies in the Dublin Cemeteries

all in one database

Just ask

PS I found 15 John Doyle & another 10 J Doyle entries, I would guess covering 12 different John / J Doyles

Hi Robus, on that page above there is a large number of "page temporarily removed" links so I cannot search alphabetically for somebody. I'll pm you.

Robus · 07-09-2011 7:58pm

Dionysus wrote: »

Hi Robus, on that page above there is a large number of "page temporarily removed" links so I cannot search alphabetically for somebody. I'll pm you.

I only have a sample of the first page on the site, it is not a searchable database on the web, I have replied to the p.m.’s that I received.

Nhead · 07-09-2011 9:17pm

Dionysus wrote: »

Athy.

Ah I never knew that and I'm only up the road.

mirror mirror · 12-09-2011 10:44am

Robus wrote: »

Yes I have the full
The National Museums' "Roll of Honour",

Arrests ,transfers, detention and release lists from Irish & English Prisons.

Frongoch Camp in North Wales "Roll Call"

the "Statements to the Bureau of Military History"

The Catholic Bulletin 1916 - 1919 "Easter Week" articles on the killed in Action

Court Martial results for May 1916

Internment of Bodies in the Dublin Cemeteries

all in one database
Hi Robus,are there any Doyles from kilkenny mentioned on thos

Robus · 12-09-2011 9:45pm

mirror mirror wrote: »

Hi Robus,are there any Doyles from kilkenny mentioned on thos

There are over 130 Doyle entries, most with no location but information based on their name, do you have a first name?

Dalcassian · 12-09-2011 11:32pm

Hi Robus,
Have you got the Frongoch Camp "Roll Call"?
Could you check it for a Michael O'Brien from Harold's Cross and let me know on a PM?
I would be very greatful.
Cheers
Joe

Dalcassian · 12-09-2011 11:42pm

Sorry, It should be, Hi mirror mirror!

:o:o

Robus · 13-09-2011 6:30pm

Dalcassian wrote: »

Sorry, It should be, Hi mirror mirror! :o:o

Dalcassian · 13-09-2011 9:50pm

Hi Robus, So do you have the Frongoch Camp "Roll Call"?
Could you check it for a Michael O'Brien from Harold's Cross and let me know on a PM?
Please

Joe

Robus · 14-09-2011 7:31pm

The Irish prisoners own roll call, as distinct from the guard’s roll call, was compiled apparently on Collins instructions, by three senior camp figures. Two thirds of which are in the National library and I ended up accidently purchasing the missing third from the third compilers family. The English list has been commercially published.

Sorry I don’t show any Michael O’Brien at Frongoch, other listings are below.

· O'Brien Michael GPO, O'Connell Street Garrison, See the "Roll of Honour" at the National Museum
· O'Brien Michael a Member IRA and Flying Column, Wexford, 1921 ,made a "Witness Statement" number 1158 to The "Bureau of Military History"
· O'Brien Michael Four Courts Garrison , See the "Roll of Honour" at the National Museum
· O'Brien Ml J. of Dublin was released between the 4th and 7th June 1916 following a full military investigation.
· O'Brien Ml. of 29 Guild Street, North Wall: Occupation Artist ,was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Knutsford Detention Barracks, England on 30th April 1916

PS what’s “ Hi Mirror Mirror” mean?

irishmedals · 14-09-2011 9:36pm

Robus wrote: »

Yes I have the full
The National Museums' "Roll of Honour",

Arrests ,transfers, detention and release lists from Irish & English Prisons.

Frongoch Camp in North Wales "Roll Call"

the "Statements to the Bureau of Military History"

The Catholic Bulletin 1916 - 1919 "Easter Week" articles on the killed in Action

Court Martial results for May 1916

Internment of Bodies in the Dublin Cemeteries

Robus, does the Internment of Bodies in the Dublin Cemeteries give any details of the burial place of a Mrs Margaret Naylor who was shot dead on the 29th or 30th of April 1916 while crossing Ring’s end Drawbridge. I have all the details of her death but am unable to locate her grave.

irishmedals · 14-09-2011 9:45pm

Robus wrote: »

Yes I have the full
The National Museums' "Roll of Honour",

Arrests ,transfers, detention and release lists from Irish & English Prisons.

Frongoch Camp in North Wales "Roll Call"

the "Statements to the Bureau of Military History"

The Catholic Bulletin 1916 - 1919 "Easter Week" articles on the killed in Action

Court Martial results for May 1916

Internment of Bodies in the Dublin Cemeteries

all in one database

Just ask

PS I found 15 John Doyle & another 10 J Doyle entries, I would guess covering 12 different John / J Doyles

Robus, does the Internment of Bodies in the Dublin Cemeteries give thelocation of the grave of a Mrs Margaret Naylor who was shot dead in Ringsend on the 29th or 30th of April 1916.

Robus · 14-09-2011 10:05pm

irishmedals wrote: »

Robus, does the Internment of Bodies in the Dublin Cemeteries give thelocation of the grave of a Mrs Margaret Naylor who was shot dead in Ringsend on the 29th or 30th of April 1916.

Sorry no.

alice8 · 23-10-2011 8:33pm

Hi Robus

any chance you could look up Samuel or Sonny Hill from Dublin?

He was a law searcher who apparently had no part in the Rising, but was caught up in the arrests and shipped off to an internment camp. When he got back his disapproving employers fired him!

Thanks a million, if you get a chance that would be great.

Robus · 24-10-2011 8:45am

alice8 wrote: »

Hi Robus

any chance you could look up Samuel or Sonny Hill from Dublin?

He was a law searcher who apparently had no part in the Rising, but was caught up in the arrests and shipped off to an internment camp. When he got back his disapproving employers fired him!

Thanks a million, if you get a chance that would be great.

Hill Const See Army & RIC Crown Death's in Who's Who on 02/07/21
Hill Dr. Georges, Chatterton, (CO904/203/186), Dublin Castle Special Branch Files
Hill H.O.H. see page 44 of "Who’s Who in the War Of Independence"
Hill L/Cpl See Army & RIC Crown Death's in Who's Who on 18/06/21
Hill Sam H of 18 Lr Ormond Quay :Occupation Legal Searcher was received at Wakefield Detention Barracks on 6th May 1916 from Ballsbridge
Hill SH. of Dublin was released on 29th May 1916 following a full military investigation

I will try more lists later on for you.

Sorry no more matches found, nor any other volunteers from Ormond quay found (neighbours were often in the same company’s and can provide research help from common witness statements)

alice8 · 24-10-2011 8:03pm

That's smashing, that was him alright - Samuel Hamilton Hill of Ormond Quay. I don't think he was actually involved in the volunteers or the fighting at all - just in the wrong place at the wrong time!

Thanks again, much appreciated.

Robus · 24-10-2011 8:30pm

Robus wrote: »

Hill Const See Army & RIC Crown Death's in
Hill SH. of Dublin was released on 29th May 1916 following a full military investigation

A challenge to all readers, has anyone ever found the “full military investigation” reports. I believe that volunteers were moved from Frongoch to Wandsworth prison, “tried” and returned to Frongoch. Are they archived in Kew National archives?

johnny_doyle · 25-10-2011 7:07am

Robus wrote: »

A challenge to all readers, has anyone ever found the “full military investigation” reports. I believe that volunteers were moved from Frongoch to Wandsworth prison, “tried” and returned to Frongoch. Are they archived in Kew National archives?

haven't tried to go to Kew to read the records there but there are some bits and pieces re the Easter Rising available to view (and a few available to download for free).

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/easter-rising.htm

WO35 and WO71 possibly the best sections
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/DisplayCatalogueDetails.asp?CATID=13095&CATLN=3&FullDetails=True

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/DisplayCatalogueDetails.asp?CATID=13131&CATLN=3&FullDetails=True

Some photos of the occupants pre-rebellion are online

http://www.peoplescollectionwales.co.uk/Collection/888-fron-goch-prisoner-of-war-camp

enfield · 26-10-2011 8:16am

Irish at Frongoch.
Would not inform on Comrade Prisoners.
The Commandant’s Threat.
Fifteen “hut leaders” of Irish prisoners at Frongoch have been court-martialled for refusing, with other men, to answer roll call. One of the accused put the case in a nutshell by stating that to answer would be “ to inform on a comrade” thereby delivering him up as liable to service in the English Army. Mr Gavan Duffy, for the prisoners, complained that the Press was not admitted. The Commandant (Lt. Col. Ivor Bowen) emphatically refused admission to the Press stating he had orders from Home Office to admit no strangers. The Court then moved from the prison to outside when the Press was admitted. Mr Richard Mulcahy (344), also charged on the same counts, pleaded not guilty. Evidence as to his being a hut leader and being present at the Commandant’s office and afterwards failing to answer roll-call, was given by Lt. and Adjt. Burns and Sergeant-Major Newstead. Cross-examined by Mr Duffy, Lt. Burns stated that two of the 15 leaders told the Commandant at the interview that they wished to be relieved of the position of hut leaders. Accused (Mulcahy) might have been one of the two. Mr Duffy said it was essential that the prosecution prove the Royal warrant under which the Court was constituted, because if it was not proved the whole cases fell to the ground. The Court was not sitting by virtue of any Act of Parliament, and was ultra vires. The Judge-Advocate said the Court was held by virtue of His Majesty’s Commissions and under the authority of C. -in-C. General Sir Pitcairn Campbell. Mr Duffy also submitted that the Court failed to produce an essential averment that the accused was a prisoner of war—they should have produced proper legal evidence, the Home Office Order of internment. The accused, Mulcahy, volunteered a statement, and addressing the Court said up to 7th Nov, he never refused to answer roll-call. Immediately prior to that date over 200 men refused to answer their names or numbers, as they knew that in the case of Michael Murphy, wanted as an absentee under the Military Service Act, a wrong man was taken and M. Murphy was still in the camp. They feared that other interned men would be similarly wanted. He told the Commandant that the hut leaders as Irish prisoners could not well dissociate themselves from the attitude of the other prisoners, but the Commandant simply declined to discuss what he called “those politics. ” Accused then asked to resign the leadership and the Commandant said he would accept the offer. When they went back to camp on 7th Nov., they found it occupied by a large party of military. Though he told his comrades that the Commandant said “he was not now” looking for a Military Service man, the prisoners, knowing that a Military Service man was amongst the, said that they could not answer the proposed roll-call without disclosing this man. Accused accordingly said each man should judge for himself, and when the roll was called he, too, did not answer. “The Court may understand this better, ” accused said; “if I put it this way. If a German interned among English soldiers by the Germans were wanted for the German Army what would be thought of those English soldiers if they gave that man up and informed on him to the German authorities? There are men here who fought in the insurrection; many are here who did not; but most of them now are very sympathetic with those who did. ” Members of the Court, at mention of the German analogy, smiled, and remarked they had not looked at the affair in that light before. Accused stated that for ordinary discipline the roll had never been called before. It was provocative to call it at that time (7th Nov. ) in view of the circumstances stated. The discipline would be unimpaired if the roll was not enforced. President—I don’t see how your opinion justifies your offence. Accused—Well, I wanted to get it off my chest (laughter). I do not wish to criticise—merely to explain our attitude. President—We are pleased to hear you, and I think you gave us a very capable statement. Lt. and Adjt. Burns admitted I cross-examination that the prisoners were a fine body of men and were respectful and well-conducted “to a certain extent, ” and the hut-leaders were of great assistance n running the camp. In cross-examination, Sergeant-Major Newstead stated he did not hear the Commandant say that if rations were not drawn they would be left in the compound, and if the men did not cook the meat they could starve. Did the Commandant say that if he had nothing in the Camp but dead bodies he would have discipline?—Yes, I believe he did say that. Were extra soldiers brought to the Camp and three sentries with fixed bayonets outside each hut?—Yes, on the morning of the 7th. Accused said the Commandant threatened that any man refusing to answer would be taken to the South Camp and deprived of parcels and letters, etc. Accused did not answer roll, as it would be informing upon a comrade. Judge-Advocate-The accused has put the whole case in a nutshell. The Court was adjourned, and decisions on cases tried were not announced.
The Committees of London, Manchester, Liverpool, and Glasgow, affiliated with the Irish National Aid and Volunteers Dependents Fund, co-operate in looking after the interned men and send on to Frongoch. Camp regular weekly supplies of all necessaries. The Dublin Executive assist in this work, and will gladly give information on it. Relatives and friends, when forwarding parcels direct to the interned men, are advised to send notice to the Hon. Secs., 10 Exchequer Street, Dublin, who will assist in securing delivery. Irish Ladies are invited to send to the Irish National Aid offices gifts of woollen mufflers, gloves, and wristlets, which are needed by the interned men for the winter.

Regbutler · 08-11-2011 8:37pm

Robus wrote: »

Yes I have the full
The National Museums' "Roll of Honour",

Arrests ,transfers, detention and release lists from Irish & English Prisons.

Frongoch Camp in North Wales "Roll Call"

the "Statements to the Bureau of Military History"

The Catholic Bulletin 1916 - 1919 "Easter Week" articles on the killed in Action

Court Martial results for May 1916

Internment of Bodies in the Dublin Cemeteries

all in one database

Just ask

PS I found 15 John Doyle & another 10 J Doyle entries, I would guess covering 12 different John / J Doyles

My wife's uncle, Lieutent Liam O'Carroll says in his Witness statement No W.S. 314 and 594 that after rounding up all the men after Commandant Daly had received the order to surrender the Four Courts they were taken to Richnond Barracks then Knutsford befor Frongach with an interrogation at Wormwood Scrubs and a return to Frongach and release in October 1916. Four others were involved in The Rising. Another, Michael McHugh was in The Scrubs for Anti British writing, he worked for the Tuam Hearald and Freeman's Journal but we can't find any mention of him anywhere.

Robus · 08-11-2011 8:49pm

Regbutler wrote: »

. Another, Michael McHugh was in The Scrubs for Anti British writing, he worked for the Tuam Hearald and Freeman's Journal but we can't find any mention of him anywhere.

McHugh M. of Castlebar was released on 29th May 1916 following a full military investigation.
McHugh Michael Comdt a Comandant IRA, Mayo, 1921 ,made a "Witness Statement" number 1632 to The "Bureau of Military History"

Robus · 08-11-2011 8:51pm

johnny_doyle wrote: »

haven't tried to go to Kew to read the records there but there are some bits and pieces re the Easter Rising available to view (and a few available to download for free).
WO35 and WO71 possibly the best sections

Thanks a million, I'm awaiting a response from them

Bob the Builder · 19-11-2011 3:44pm

From an online source - Patrick Joseph (PJ) Doris, this man was interned under Regulation 14 B of the Defense of the Realm Regulations, on the recommendation of a competent military authority, on the ground, which was communicated to him, that he is of hostile associations and is reasonably suspected of having favored, promoted, or assisted an armed insurrection against His Majesty. He had full opportunity of stating his case to the Advisory Committee, who recommended his continued internment. I have no knowledge of his having refused to insert a recruiting advertisement.

---

At some point he was transferred to Reading Gaol one month after Timothy Healy interviewed him at Frongoch (interviewed - 11th August 1916)(his brother (a member of the houses of Parliament) was named by him as his accuser & had him arrested as they were both vying for the same seat in a local election (the two never spoke to each other after this event). Can you give me any information on when PJ arrived or any other little bits of information on his time there

trekaddict · 19-11-2011 3:51pm

AH BLEEEEEP

Sorry to BOB there (he works in my shop from time to time & I had,'t realized he was still logged in here.

Lets try this again under my own name!

trekaddict · 19-11-2011 3:52pm

From an online source - Patrick Joseph (PJ) Doris, this man was interned under Regulation 14 B of the Defense of the Realm Regulations, on the recommendation of a competent military authority, on the ground, which was communicated to him, that he is of hostile associations and is reasonably suspected of having favored, promoted, or assisted an armed insurrection against His Majesty. He had full opportunity of stating his case to the Advisory Committee, who recommended his continued internment. I have no knowledge of his having refused to insert a recruiting advertisement.

---

At some point he was transferred to Reading Gaol one month after Timothy Healy interviewed him at Frongoch (interviewed - 11th August 1916)(his brother (a member of the houses of Parliament) was named by him as his accuser & had him arrested as they were both vying for the same seat in a local election (the two never spoke to each other after this event). Can you give me any information on when PJ arrived or any other little bits of information on his time there

Robus · 20-11-2011 11:27am

trekaddict wrote: »

Can you give me any information on when PJ arrived or any other little bits of information on his time there

All I could find was
Doris Pat J. Westport, : Frongoch Roll Call, Sean O'Mahony's book "Frongoch: University of Revolution"
Doris Patrick Joseph (CO904/200/119) Dublin Castle Special Branch Files
Dorris Pat Jos was detained at Richmond Barracks, Dublin on 20th May 1916

I presume it’s OK to put a link to where you can buy the files; I have no financial connection to them
http://www.eneclann.ie/acatalog/ENEC015.html

adee · 20-01-2012 11:13pm

Robus
Would you have anything on your database for Mark Walsh who was at the GPO. I can see him listed on the Irishmedals site but no idea where to find any other information on him - he doesn't seem to have made a witness statement. Also do you know did everyone (I also have great uncles at both Bolands and Jacobs) end up being transported to Frongoch or did some just 'walk away' ?
thanks

Robus · 21-01-2012 1:54pm

Walsh Mark GPO, O'Connell Street Garrison, See the "Roll of Honour" at the National Museum

Sorry, I could find no other information.

As for Frongoch, it held twice as many people as actual participants; there was a general round up. And “walking away” , it depends on garrison, quite a few were encouraged to. and did walk from Jacob’s (where some went home at night and even partook in a celli in Jacob’s), while few if any had the opportunity in the GPO.

adee · 21-01-2012 9:49pm

Thanks very much robus. Pity no sign of Mark Walsh.
What you say about some men at Jacobs fits in with what I heard, that the g.uncle i had there basically just walked home.

The third uncle was at Bolands and I read somewhere that Dev made the men march and surrender officially - could I hassle you for a look up for him (last one I promise) name Tom McGrane.
thanks again.

Robus · 22-01-2012 1:14pm

Not a problem ( with my site un-updated for over 3 years I still get a dozen emails a week!)
• McGrane Christopher GPO, O'Connell Street Garrison, See the "Roll of Honour" at the National Museum
• McGrane Eileen see page 62 of "Who’s Who in the War Of Independence"
• McGrane Thomas Jacob's Factory Garrison , See the "Roll of Honour" at the National Museum
• McGrane Thos of Seatown, Dundalk was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Wandsworth Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916.
I have a photo of the Boland’s men in file marching somewhere in my collection

adee · 23-01-2012 12:28am

Thanks again robus - very kind. Tom Mc G at Jacobs (not Bolands as I thought) seems most likely so I guess I am off to Collins Barracks to see that Roll of Honour.
cheers.

retired jack · 18-08-2012 12:49pm

Hi I am not used to using this forum. i am Margaret Naylors grandson and we have just discovered margarets grave. If you would like the information please leave a message for me and I will reply.
retired jack

gormap · 08-11-2012 2:41pm

Hi there Robus - you've inspired my first post! My great-uncle Andy Redmond (Dublin - but I'm not sure where) ended up in Frongoch I think. Do you have any information on him?

Robus · 08-11-2012 9:24pm

gormap wrote: »

Hi there Robus - you've inspired my first post! My great-uncle Andy Redmond (Dublin - but I'm not sure where) ended up in Frongoch I think. Do you have any information on him?

I'm delighted to have inspired your first post:
The following are all “A” “Redmond”
1. Redmond A. of 15 Curzon Street, Dublin was transferred from Richmond Barracks Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 1st May 1916
2. Redmond A/Comdr See Army & RIC Crown Death's in Who's Who on 21/01/20
3. Redmond Aidan see page 89 of "Who’s Who in the War Of Independence"
4. Redmond Andrew (ICA) 15 Curzon Street, : Frongoch Roll Book
5. Redmond Andy GPO, O'Connell Street Garrison, National Museum roll Of Honour
With 1 and 4 looking good and probably 5 also.

You have the following two options in the witness statements

WS Ref #: 426 , Witness: Sean O'Sullivan, Member IRB, Manchester, 1916, Dublin, 1917; Member IV and IRA, Dublin, 1917 - 1921
- BMH.WS0426.pdf, on page 2

... . Captain Tom Boylan was Company Officer. Some time during this year I was approached by Andy Redmond who ...

WS Ref #: 625 , Witness: Edward Handley, Sergeant British Army, 1916; (acquisition of arms for ICA)
- BMH.WS0625.pdf, on page 2

... STATEMENT OF EDWARD HANDLEY, 207, Kildare Road, Crumlin. At the outbreak of the l9l4-18 War I was serving with the 4th Battalion, Dublin Fusiliers. Prior to that, I had worked in White's Public House, 79, The Coombe, where Andy Redmond, who was later a member of the Volunteers, was manager. I knew ...

gormap · 12-11-2012 1:55pm

Thank you Robus. I think you are right about 1,4, and 5. I believe he also had a brother who also took part in the Rising but as the brother was just 15 he got no more than a kick up the arse from a British officer before being told to go home to his mother. There may well be no record here! I believe he also had a brother serving with the British Army in France at the time. I have some serious genealogical digging to do. Thank you for all your excellent help.

Wexford Wanderer · 27-11-2012 7:43pm

Hello Robus, I gather you are the go-to person for information on the Rising and Frongoch etc. I'm writing a family history and I know that several great uncles as well as a great-aunt were involved in the Rising and War of Independence.

I have been able to find information about two great-uncles (James Quinn and Andy Doyle) in Witness Statements and the Irish Times list. I believe both were also in Frongoch and would like to be able to confirm this, so I'm wondering if you can check the list you have from Sean O' Mahony's book. I have tried to get hold of the book but without success so far.

The names I am looking for are:
1) James Quinn of Camolin Park, Co.Wexford
2) Andrew (known as both Andy and Lar) Doyle of The Shannon, Enniscorthy, Co. Wexford.
3) Elizabeth (Lizzie) Quinn, also from Camolin Park. I'm told she used to run messages during the war but I don't think she was ever captured or imprisoned. Worth checking the name though.
4) James Wafer (became Lizzie's husband), from Ferns. I was told he was involved too but have no information at all about him.

I also have references for James Quinn being in Richmond Barracks and Wandsworth Prison (after the Rising), and RIC Barracks, Enniscorthy; Waterford Prison and Kilworth Camp (during the War of Independence). I found a couple of references to an escape from Kilworth and I think he may have been involved in that, but don't know for sure. I do know he was tortured in Enniscorthy (WS 1,157 Patrick Ronan) and that he died in a mental hospital in 1942.

In addition, I had been told that my grandfather, John Doyle, a GAA player for both Wexford and Dublin was involved in the Rising, but I have not been able to find anything about him. He was from Enniscorthy but lived in Dublin at the time of the Rising. He was living at 84 Irishtown Road, Dublin South and worked in the docks.

Thank you very much for any information you can provide when you have time to take a look.

Robus · 27-11-2012 8:17pm

HI WW, here is a few options , regards Robus
Here are all the J and James Quinn options

Quinn J Died 09/July/1921 , See Who's who War Of Independence
Quinn J Died 24/April/1916 , See Who's who War Of Independence
Quinn J. of South Union Workhouse aged 42 was Interned at Glasnevin Cemetery
Quinn James Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Quinn James Killed In Action,
Quinn James of Camolin Park, Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Wandsworth Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916.
Quinn James See Catholic Bulletin dated September 1916
Quinn James South Dublin Union Garrison , National Museum Roll Of Honour

A Doyle

Doyle A. (jun) of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
Doyle Andy Enniscorthy, : Frongoch Roll Book
Doyle Andy Jnr. Enniscorthy, : Frongoch Roll Book

I found Wafer

Wafer John of Shannon, Enniscorthy :Occupation Clerk, was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Woking Detention Barracks on 19th May 1916

All Camolin

Barnes Michael Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Barnes Thomas Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Boland Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Boland Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Breen Joseph Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Breen Myles Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Brennan Mathew of Camolin, Co Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Wandsworth Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916.
Brennan-Whitmore W.J. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Connors John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Doyle Charles Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Jackman N.R. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Kavanagh John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Kavanagh John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Kelly James Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Kelly John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Kelly John of Clonee, Camolin, Wexford :Occupation Labourer,was removed on 12th May 1916 from Richmond Barracks, Dublin and lodged in Wakefield Detention Barracks on 13th May 1916
Kenny Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Kinsella Robert Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Maguire Jehr. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
McDonald Ed of Camolin was released on 29th May 1916 following a full military investigation.
McDonald Edward of Kilborea, Camolin, Co Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Wandsworth Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916.
Murphy Denis Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Murphy James Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Murphy Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Murphy T. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
O'Breslin James F. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Quinn James Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Quinn James of Camolin Park, Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Wandsworth Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916.
Redmond Owen Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Roche John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Roche Thomas Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Ronan Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Sinnott Michael Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Sunderland John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Tomkins Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Whelan Thomas Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
Whitmore William of Clonee, Camolin, Co Wexford :Occupation Farmer, was transferred from Richmond Barracks , Dublin to Knutsford Barracks on 3rd May 1916

And Shannon hill

?Mahernatty Henry of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy:Occupation Lab, was transferred from Richmond Detention Barracks on 19th May 1916 to Lewes Detention Barracks
Cahill M. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
Doyle A. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
Doyle A. (jun) of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
Doyle Michael of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy:Occupation Labourer, was transferred from Richmond Detention Barracks on 19th May 1916 to Lewes Detention Barracks
Doyle T. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
Gallagher John of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy :Occupation Ledger clerk,was removed on 12th May 1916 from Richmond Barracks, Dublin and lodged in Wakefield Detention Barracks on 13th May 1916
Lacey J. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
Thorpe W. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
Thorpe W. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
Water P. of Shannon Hill, Enniscothy, Co Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 1st May 1916

Frongoch internment camp.

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