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Starting a new political party

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  • 04-08-2009 9:23pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 87 ✭✭


    I´ve been interested in politics and the economy for quite a while and was thinking of joining one of the mainstream parties. After thinking about it I have realised that the existing parties are all lacking something. After doing some searching here,

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/government-in-ireland/national-government/houses-of-the-oireachtas/registering_a_political_party

    I would be interested in hearing peoples opinions on starting a new political party. The current parties are clearly disconnected from the average person on the street.

    Fianna Fail are hell bent on pulling this country into financial slavery for the next generation. Their big idea is NAMA, an agency which will add about 60 billion onto the national debt to save a bunch of banks who took excessive risks in property lending. ( I currently work for one of these banks, if the details of some of the loans that were given out in the past few years were public knowledge there would be riots, the banks were driven by greed and an "Us too" philosophy where proper lending practices often went out the window, the banks most guilty of this should not be bailed out, nationalise them and wind down their operations. In general, Fianna Fail refuse to accept the blame for the bad decisions they have made in power and lack the will power to tackle the vested interest interests in the economy.

    Fianna Gael have some talented politicians (Richard Bruton for example is extremely competent) but also suffer from a lack of will to make the big decisions, they often avoid to make their positions clear for fear that they won´t get votes while I believe many people would vote for them if they just stood up and said exactly what they believed what needs to be done.

    Labour don´t have enough talented people to make a huge impact and their election manifestos often seem to be confusing as they are not sure whether they are a workers party or not. Irish people traditionally have not voted left wing parties into power as we never had a big enough working class for a critical mass of voters to elect left wing candidates.

    We Irish don´t think along right wing and left wing lines, we´ve had no history of a popular socialist movement here, Which I believe is to the countries detriment. If you look at other European countries the ones with the best infrastructure, in the main, are the ones that have had socialist governments at various times in their past.

    The main policies I feel a new party would need would be

    1) Cut government waste. The sheer amount of money wasted in this country is horriffic, It seems every decision made by the last government had to be passed to a new agency to be implemented, these often share common ground with other, pre-existing agencies and many could be merged with resultant cost savings, part of this is due to the excess of laws we have in this country (how many pieces of employment legislation do we have on the books?). We need to simplify the way this country is run, this would lead to cost savings and reduce the cost of doing business which leads us to....

    2) Create Jobs. Job creation doesn´t seem to be a priority with the current government. FAS is overly expensive and could be merged with the IDA. We must have at least 5 or 6 agencies in this country concerned with "Jobs" (FAS, Enterprise Ireland, Shannon Development, The IDA, Forbairt etc) and none of them seem to work that well. Merge them all and have one agency with a smaller budget to focus on the areas where we can create sustainable jobs (Agri Business for example, We have some of the best food in the world. Compare the Milk, Beef & Butter you get here to that you get anywhere else in the world, the quality is miles better, We should be shouting this sort of thing from the roof tops!). The governments current job creation policy seems to be to wait until the rest of the world improves and ship our unemployment problem overseas. This is exactly the policy which means our best and brightest leaves and creates wealth in other countries. This policy ruined the country in the 1980´s and will do so again if allowed to continue.

    I could go on but this is turning into a book. I truly believe that the time has come for people who take an interest in these issues to stop standing on the sidelines and act. There must be plenty of people who take an active part in their communities and want to see things get better. If we want this country to get better then we have to work at it.

    I´m serious in starting a new party to reform this country we have and agitate for some common sense in government, I genuinely would not want to live anywhere else. Lets try get the right people in government (local and national) for a change!


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    hey i'm aslo thinking of starting a political movement as such. if you want check out this link:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055600589

    where i made some of my ideas clear and see if you like them


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭dave-higgz


    padimus wrote: »
    1) Cut government waste.
    2) Create Jobs

    Welcome to Fine Gael


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 NotoriousFin


    padimus wrote: »
    1) Cut government waste.
    2) Create Jobs

    That's what every party is promising?

    You'll need something else to differentiate yourself.

    Plus there are plenty of people talking about creating new parties as it is!
    Get talking to them I'd imagine!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 RuairiLafferty


    I'd think about a policy of reforming the way irish is taught in schools. I think that a political party wanting to promote the irish language and strengthen it would be popular with older people.

    I think irish shouldn't be taught in primary school at all, but that it be introduced as compulsory at secondary level. It shouldn't be taught in primary school as teachers don't have an extensive knowledge of the language.

    That's one of my ideas I'm looking to find an up and coming political party as none of the current ones interest me and I am interested in getting into politics.

    At the end of the day it will be 10 years before I can be elected as a TD so I'm sure some party will rise by then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    You realise this thread is 4 years old right? cool since that's sorted.
    I'd think about a policy of reforming the way irish is taught in schools. I think that a political party wanting to promote the irish language and strengthen it would be popular with older people.
    Do you realise old people have the lowest fluency rates in the language?
    I think irish shouldn't be taught in primary school at all, but that it be introduced as compulsory at secondary level. It shouldn't be taught in primary school as teachers don't have an extensive knowledge of the language.
    Two reasons I disagree with this

    1. Children absorb language easier then older kids.
    2. Some students in secondary schools are adults. They shouldn't have to study Irish id they don't want to.
    That's one of my ideas I'm looking to find an up and coming political party as none of the current ones interest me and I am interested in getting into politics.
    Just vote SF they're the most irish language zealous.
    At the end of the day it will be 10 years before I can be elected as a TD so I'm sure some party will rise by then.
    Unless you're eight that's not true.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5 RuairiLafferty


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You realise this thread is 4 years old right? cool since that's sorted.


    Do you realise old people have the lowest fluency rates in the language?


    Two reasons I disagree with this

    1. Children absorb language easier then older kids.
    2. Some students in secondary schools are adults. They shouldn't have to study Irish id they don't want to.


    Just vote SF they're the most irish language zealous.


    Unless you're eight that's not true.

    Didn't realise that haha, just joined today still learning the ropes! I'm almost 15 and you have to be 25 to be a TD.

    Older people appreciate the language & culture more. I'm not saying that they're all able to have fluent irish conversations.

    1. The children are going to be absorbing a badly taught language because you don't need to have fantastic irish to be a primary school teacher. A way around this would be to raise the standard of irish needed to be a primary school teacher.
    2. For a long term plan this would be necessary. If it wasn't compulsory nobody would choose the language, it's about reviving irish not killing it. After 20 years after teenagers' general view on irish changes you could make it uncompulsory if necessary.

    I'm not all about the irish language, it was simply an idea for a policy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Didn't realise that haha, just joined today still learning the ropes! I'm almost 15 and you have to be 25 to be a TD.
    Ah no worries you'll soon get used to the place. Seems we're both wrong it's 21.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/national_government/houses_of_the_oireachtas/eligibility_for_membership_of_dail_eireann.html
    Older people appreciate the language & culture more. I'm not saying that they're all able to have fluent irish conversations.
    I don't even know if that's true or not. In the past there was a perception of Irish being a backward, peasant, unscientific language. Older people have lived at a time when this opinion was much more common.
    1. The children are going to be absorbing a badly taught language because you don't need to have fantastic irish to be a primary school teacher. A way around this would be to raise the standard of irish needed to be a primary school teacher.
    That would be a better idea I think.
    2. For a long term plan this would be necessary. If it wasn't compulsory nobody would choose the language, it's about reviving irish not killing it. After 20 years after teenagers' general view on irish changes you could make it uncompulsory if necessary.
    I understand what you're saying but educational policy should be about what's best for the student, not the subject. What you're basically saying at the end is "you can make it compulsory as long as you agree with me." (paraphrasing) Which is basically the same thing as Henry Ford's "You can have the model T in any colour. So long as it's black." (paraphrasing)
    I'm not all about the irish language, it was simply an idea for a policy.
    I get what you mean but you have to understand if you change one thing you affect another. For example strengthening the Irish language requirement for primary school teachers will make you popular with the gaelgeoir crowd but you'll be Satan himself with the unions. Being a politician is all about juggling these vested interest groups, not an easy feat.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Older people appreciate the language & culture more. I'm not saying that they're all able to have fluent irish conversations.

    Really? Than why is the percentage of people who can speak Irish properly rising. Younger people in my experience are much more open to it than older ones.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 RuairiLafferty


    Really? Than why is the percentage of people who can speak Irish properly rising. Younger people in my experience are much more open to it than older ones.

    When I say older I mean 30+ sorry if you misunderstood. I mean they appreciate it more than teenagers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    When I say older I mean 30+ sorry if you misunderstood. I mean they appreciate it more than teenagers.
    That's because they don't have to learn it. Make classes compulsory for the 30+ age group and you'll see how much they love it then.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 42 first doyle


    The demise of the Irish language has more to do with Ireland's political relationship with Britain rather than a lack of want by the people to speak it.

    For example, the Irish language only has minority status in the six counties. It's this very attitude/contempt for the language itself that has left it in the state its in.

    You can be rest assured that when the UK breaks up there will be a massive surge in Irish speakers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    The demise of the Irish language has more to do with Ireland's political relationship with Britain rather than a lack of want by the people to speak it.
    No we've been independent for ninety years now. It really is because Irish people don't want to speak it.

    Also the UK isn't going to break up. Dream on.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 42 first doyle


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No we've been independent for ninety years now. It really is because Irish people don't want to speak it.

    Your concept of independence has never been consistent with any Irish patriot's. Partitioning the country into two states isn't independence. You will have to do more than paint the post boxes green to sell that concept.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Also the UK isn't going to break up. Dream on.

    Sooner then you might think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Your concept of independence has never been consistent with any Irish patriot's. Partitioning the country into two states isn't independence. You will have to do more than paint the post boxes green to sell that concept.
    What's your view of independence. As opposed to actual independence that is.
    Sooner then you might think.
    How so? Scotland will vote to maintain the UK and once they do the Union will gain the prestige of democratic mandate. No Scottish person will be able to challenge it without being undemocratic.

    http://www.tedstees.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/e/tedstee0009.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    The demise of the Irish language has more to do with Ireland's political relationship with Britain rather than a lack of want by the people to speak it.

    For example, the Irish language only has minority status in the six counties. It's this very attitude/contempt for the language itself that has left it in the state its in.

    You can be rest assured that when the UK breaks up there will be a massive surge in Irish speakers.


    And you know what... I agree with him. Making Irish an EU language does nothing to promote the language and is nothing less then a smokescreen to hide the lack of progress made on the language at the behest of a strong lobby group/s. Spending millions of taxpayers money on translations that simply will not be read is Government waste at its worst.

    As for patriotism. It's the last refuge of the scoundrel.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Your concept of independence has never been consistent with any Irish patriot's. Partitioning the country into two states isn't independence. You will have to do more than paint the post boxes green to sell that concept..

    Kind of depends on your definition of an Irish patriot, but then I suppose we did have a civil war to almost decide that.. The Republic exists and is entirely separate to Britain. That's independence. I'm guessing you would advocate another trade war with our main trade partner to show our independence?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    When I say older I mean 30+ sorry if you misunderstood. I mean they appreciate it more than teenagers.

    Christ. If better get my walking stick


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Your concept of independence has never been consistent with any Irish patriot's. Partitioning the country into two states isn't independence. You will have to do more than paint the post boxes green to sell that concept

    Well, having the highly progressive PR system of voting, membership of the eurozone, our robust constitution and our (despite recent events) high diplomatic standing throughout the world should do it.

    Failing to recognise the Irish Republic is not patriotism, it's chauvinism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Don't bother starting a party, politics is a slow road to get into. You have to start in your local community, do the favours and scratch the backs, familiarise yourself with legislation, get elected at the local level, hopefully don't get stuck there, get elected after ten years to the national level, walking on eggshells all the way, then make enough friends and acquaintances among politicians at that level to have a prayer of starting something modest like the PDs.

    Better off starting a watchdog movement with paralegals, lobbyists and contacts in many different interest groups to help push politicians the way you want them to go.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 42 first doyle


    Kind of depends on your definition of an Irish patriot, but then I suppose we did have a civil war to almost decide that.. The Republic exists and is entirely separate to Britain. That's independence. I'm guessing you would advocate another trade war with our main trade partner to show our independence?

    The Republic was not a consequence of the Civil War, the suppression of it was.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Republic was not a consequence of the Civil War, the suppression of it was.


    The Republic was a consequence of the previous war with Britain and subsequently the Treaty. The civil war was an expression of "patriots". :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭BOHtox


    padimus wrote: »
    1) Cut government waste. The sheer amount of money wasted in this country is horriffic, It seems every decision made by the last government had to be passed to a new agency to be implemented, these often share common ground with other, pre-existing agencies and many could be merged with resultant cost savings, part of this is due to the excess of laws we have in this country (how many pieces of employment legislation do we have on the books?). We need to simplify the way this country is run, this would lead to cost savings and reduce the cost of doing business which leads us to....



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    Great post BOHtox. There is a strain of people who think everyone is incompetent and that with their "common sense" they could "fix" everything in a couple of weeks. If it was easy it would have been done...


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    This post has been deleted.

    The Irish Kingdom Independence Party? You think there's an appetite for monarchy in this country?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,223 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No we've been independent for ninety years now. It really is because Irish people don't want to speak it.

    Also the UK isn't going to break up. Dream on.

    Not really. We should all be able to speak it given the duration we are thought it. It was usually the people that went to the gaeltacht or had fluent parents that knew it as they learned elsewhere. My German is better than my Irish. Its an inditment of the cirriculum and a lesser extent the teachers that fluency is so low.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Not really. We should all be able to speak it given the duration we are thought it. It was usually the people that went to the gaeltacht or had fluent parents that knew it as they learned elsewhere. My German is better than my Irish. Its an inditment of the cirriculum and a lesser extent the teachers that fluency is so low.


    My father was an Irish teacher. He grew up in the west speaking Irish and then learned English later in his teens. The vast majority of Irish teachers I have met over the years also had similar backgrounds, although the last generation of teachers seem to come from all over the country. I grew up bi-lingual, although now knowing Irish is far removed from my mind.

    The problem is that Irish as a subject in school wasn't taught as a language. My fluency came from my home schooling in Irish and conversations in Irish rather than school work. English retains too much hold in Ireland for people to place any real focus on it. German or any other continental language receive more attention because people can see a practical use for them.

    What practical use has Irish unless you want to be a teacher, or work in the Irish media? Even if you want a government job you just have to show basic ability and then very little thereafter. Sure, some people learn and use the language, but it's become something politicians use to show how Irish they are. Hardly inspirational role models.

    Since I started living abroad, I started to feel the lack of our language. Every other nationality seems to have their own language. Don't get me wrong, I'm an English Teacher at university level and it's great to be a native English speaker... But there's something shameful in being unable to speak more than a few funny sentences.

    Saying that though, there is no impetus in Ireland to learn Irish, and until there are paying jobs that are common, very few people are going to bother with it. I learned German in school, and I retain more of that language because there was a definite use for it.

    So if you want the Irish language in favour, you have to appeal to people's capitalist natures rather than some romantic spirit of patriotism..


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Every other nationality seems to have their own language.
    Apart from Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, Chileans, Argentinians, Brazilians, Mexicans, Belgians, Austrians, Swiss, Egyptians, Libyans, Liberians, Nigerians...


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Apart from Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, Chileans, Argentinians, Brazilians, Mexicans, Belgians, Austrians, Swiss, Egyptians, Libyans, Liberians, Nigerians...


    Well, from those I've met from the countries you list above (here in China) most speak a few languages pretty well. The Irish I've met (myself included) struggle with two.


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