SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

K-9 · 29-02-2012 1:07am

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Irish Daily Mail are running another front-line story on this tomorrow, claiming that other SF TD's were at the same sort of game as O'Snodaigh.

Right up the Mails street! In fairness they are right to dig further.

kippy · 29-02-2012 1:12am

SeanW wrote: »

This is bizarre, €50,000 euro on printer ink? At €130 per cartridge? How does ink cost that much (inkjet or laser?), and how much material must he have printed to use that.

Very questionable IMO.

Explained in an earlier post I made.
But toner, can cost that much, and more, depending on a few things.
http://www.stinkyinkshop.co.uk/kyocera-mita/toner-cartridges/kyocera-mita-fs-c5350dn

southsiderosie · 29-02-2012 3:00am

MOD NOTE:

OK, people asked for this to go back onto the Politics main page, and it did. Please keep in mind that you are posting in Politics, and not the cafe, AH, or YLYL.

Off topic and 'wrong forum' posts deleted, but from here on out they will be infracted and deleted.

Xcellor · 29-02-2012 3:22am

Only in Ireland.... I am furious about this.

What I can't believe is he defends this.... Even if the printing was all done inside the rules its a huge amount of money to spend on this. There are much more cost effective methods of printing + distributing information than this.

This TD wasted our money to print stupid lealets that no one reads. This TD wasted the equiv of 2 peoples salaries. This TD shows no respect of the situation Ireland is in at the moment.

If one TD has done this.... multiply it by the rest of the idiots up there in leinster house...

Apologize Aengus for not being more careful with our money!!! If he doesn't anyone who voted for this TD should remember his actions next time around. Especially those who have lost their jobs, who have taken pay cuts, who have felt the bite of the extra taxes that are heaped on us. This type of wasteful and shrug the shoulders "I'm worth it attitude" stinks. Absolutely stinks. Shame on you Aengus.

Pompey Magnus · 29-02-2012 8:26am

In 2007 O' Snodaigh used 215 cartridges compared to 48 for Michael Moynihan (FF). O' Snodaigh uses the argument that the bigger parties had priority access to the printing presses in Leinster House which he did not have.

It would be interesting if we could get Michael Moynihan's total usage of the Leinster House printing press as it may be the case that the 48 cartridges he claimed may not tell the whole story. If it can be shown that the bigger parties do not exploit this printing press then it would kill off his argument.

kippy · 29-02-2012 9:03am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

In 2007 O' Snodaigh used 215 cartridges compared to 48 for Michael Moynihan (FF). O' Snodaigh uses the argument that the bigger parties had priority access to the printing presses in Leinster House which he did not have.

It would be interesting if we could get Michael Moynihan's total usage of the Leinster House printing press as it may be the case that the 48 cartridges he claimed may not tell the whole story. If it can be shown that the bigger parties do not exploit this printing press then it would kill off his argument.

He doesn't have an argument, in any way, shape or form.
Why compare his usage to an FF member?
Why not compare to an independent or a member of a small party who hasn't gotten access to the "printing press" either? Surely that would be more relevant (from what I can tell no one came close to his usage)

gandalf · 29-02-2012 9:27am

It is interesting that if any other party partake in waste like this it is a disgrace and robbing the taxpayers but if Sinn Fein do it they call it "working the system".

They truly are the new Fianna Fail in every respect by the looks of it!

kippy · 29-02-2012 9:44am

gandalf wrote: »

It is interesting that if any other party partake in waste like this it is a disgrace and robbing the taxpayers but if Sinn Fein do it they call it "working the system".

They truly are the new Fianna Fail in every respect by the looks of it!

Speak for yourself. I have no problem calling it a disgrace.
All parties and individuals need to adhere to the rules and get punished when they don't.

This guy used 50K worth of ink in two years and no one thought (and it was known what was going on as the guidelines on ink, drawn up since were as a result of this) to report it to either the standards in public office monitors (I assume we have them) or the garda fraud squad.....
In much the same way we have seen the politicians before him get away without investigation and punishment if required.

Laminations · 29-02-2012 9:49am

kippy wrote: »

He doesn't have an argument, in any way, shape or form.
Why compare his usage to an FF member?
Why not compare to an independent or a member of a small party who hasn't gotten access to the "printing press" either? Surely that would be more relevant (from what I can tell no one came close to his usage)

Why not compare his use in 2007/2008 (when he didn't have to pay for the cartridges) with his use in 2009 (when a limit was brought in so you paid for anything above ~2500 euro). His latter use is one fifth his previous use - the ~3700 bill he still hasn't paid.

Total abuse of taxpayers money. He should resign.

ednwireland · 29-02-2012 9:53am

Ms McDonald denied the laser cartridges had been shared by the rest of the party against Oireachtas rules.

"I think by any standards €50,000 is excessive for that purpose," she said, but made it clear the party would not reimburse the taxpayer.

Ms McDonald claimed her party colleague had been "let down by the system" as nobody had "tapped him on the shoulder" to warn him of the costs involved.

http://examiner.ie/ireland/politics/call-for-probe-into-50k-ink-cartridge-bill-affair-185496.html

thought this was funny, SF basically seem to be saying that they cant control themselves but that they need to be watched hmmmmmmm. let down by the system right, i've just been thinking twice about buying a laser toner at 75 euro for our main office printer !

29-02-2012 10:10am

What i want to know is, not just what O'Snodaigh was spending on ink (and presumably a fair bit also on the paper and sundries to go with it) but what in God's name was he printing in such a volume, and do we even know if he was the beneficiary of all of the cartridges he used. Were they cartridges, or was it money towards cartridges?

The amount of printing he's clocked up here for his €50k extends well into the millions of pages, while running a constituency of maybe 80-100,000 people. Has he used all this ink/paper/money himself, and if so on what, and if not has somebody else had some benefit here which they should not have had from taxpayers money? I'm not an expert in printing, but i know enough to know that those printers would have to have been running night, noon, and morning to clock up that kind of a spend on laser toner, and for O'Snodaigh and Sinn Fein to hide behind the "well technically, we didn't break any rules" excuse, after all the rhetoric they spouted at fianna fail and to a lesser extend fine gael governments of late about wasting taxpayers money is the height of hypocrisy and is also a terrible indictment of the systems and controls in place in leinster house.

Also, a larger question exists here. One of value to the taxpayer. If i as a private consumer can cut my home printer ink bill by 60 or 70% simply by shopping around on the internet for refills or spurious cartridges, why in the name of god can't the procurement people in the public service who buy this stuff in for people like Mr. O'Snodaigh to use do the same? Why are we paying top dollar for this stuff at a time when the country is broke and everybody but the people at the top seem to be feeling the pinch? Why should we as taxpayers allow this wholesale waste of resources in a time of widespread pain and austerity when those in power over us only seem to want to pay lip service to us about "tightening our belts" while continuing with the same old wasteful, gravy train culture?

There have to be enormous savings to be made here, and i have a feeling that the old public service resistance against making a saving in case your budget gets cut by that amount next year is still hard at work. Our public expenditure system is still rotten to the core, and farcical day to day examples like this only show it up for the mockery it continues to be.

Pompey Magnus · 29-02-2012 10:34am

kippy wrote: »

Why compare his usage to an FF member?

If the FF leader is calling for an inquiry into this then I am sure, in the interest of transparency, he would like to compare O' Snodaigh's total number of cartridges used with the total (constituency office + Leinster House printing press) cartridges used by the most profligate member of his own party.

The figure of 48 cartridges is being used by the media as a comparison but it, presumably isn't comparing like with like as it does not include printing done in Leinster House which O' Snodaigh couldn't avail of. Presumably this issue is just about waste of tax payer's money and nothing to do with political point scoring so why would you be against a fair comparison of printing expenses with members of the bigger parties?

Pompey Magnus · 29-02-2012 10:45am

kippy wrote: »

All parties and individuals need to adhere to the rules and get punished when they don't.

Which rule did he not adhere to that you would justify officially punishing him for breaking?

This guy used 50K worth of ink in two years and no one thought (and it was known what was going on as the guidelines on ink, drawn up since were as a result of this) to report it to either the standards in public office monitors (I assume we have them) or the garda fraud squad.....

Why don't you ring up the garda fraud squad now and report it? Why complain about nobody else doing it when you now have the information? When reporting it just be ready to point out to the garda what fraud he actually committed because I haven't seen anything he did which was illegal. Their number is (+353) 1 6663776, report back to us and let us know what they say.

Stupid? Yes.
Illegal? I don't think so.

Bannasidhe · 29-02-2012 11:07am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Which rule did he not adhere to that you would justify officially punishing him for breaking?

Why don't you ring up the garda fraud squad now and report it? Why complain about nobody else doing it when you now have the information? When reporting it just be ready to point out to the garda what fraud he actually committed because I haven't seen anything he did which was illegal. Their number is (+353) 1 6663776, report back to us and let us know what they say.

Stupid? Yes.
Illegal? I don't think so.

Stupid? Yes.
Greedy? Yes.
Unethical? Yes.
Hypocritical? Yes

Illegal. No

Now let's ask - who exactly decides what TDs are entitled to and therefore sets the bar for what is, and is not, illegal according to those rules?

kippy · 29-02-2012 11:24am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Which rule did he not adhere to that you would justify officially punishing him for breaking?

Why don't you ring up the garda fraud squad now and report it? Why complain about nobody else doing it when you now have the information? When reporting it just be ready to point out to the garda what fraud he actually committed because I haven't seen anything he did which was illegal. Their number is (+353) 1 6663776, report back to us and let us know what they say.

Stupid? Yes.
Illegal? I don't think so.

A point was made earlier in this thread that while the amount of cartridges he took may not have been against any rules in place at the time, what he used them for, may have broken the rules and possibly the law.
However, it is very difficult to know for sure without an investigation by the authorities and this is where, in the past, issues like this have been forgotten about.
http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/Complaints/ are the first port of call.

It is very difficult to point what what fraud took place without an investigation, I am merely suggesting that an investigation needs to take place.

Do you not find it at all odd that an elected member manages to use 50K worth of toner in two years?

Chucky the tree · 29-02-2012 11:26am

The problem is no one knows exactly what he did with all that ink, maybe he did use it for printing off or maybe he sold a few, maybe he brought some home, maybe he gave it to collegues, maybe he gave it to his Dad for his printing company. Hopefully it'll be investigated further though.

kippy · 29-02-2012 11:29am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

If the FF leader is calling for an inquiry into this then I am sure, in the interest of transparency, he would like to compare O' Snodaigh's total number of cartridges used with the total (constituency office + Leinster House printing press) cartridges used by the most profligate member of his own party.

The figure of 48 cartridges is being used by the media as a comparison but it, presumably isn't comparing like with like as it does not include printing done in Leinster House which O' Snodaigh couldn't avail of. Presumably this issue is just about waste of tax payer's money and nothing to do with political point scoring so why would you be against a fair comparison of printing expenses with members of the bigger parties?

It appears that this "printing press" is available to all members of the Oireactas if they wish to use it, however what is printed on it is monitored and must not contain election material etc.

The issue is around the waste of tax payers money, the lack of accountability/transparency and the continuing attitude of the political class that it's not their money.
On another level the issue is about the standards in public office and the questions that have been raised about who benefited from this 50K worth of ink.
Finally, yes, there is obviously political points scoring at play. I've already stated that and I've stated that it is a bit hypocritical of FF to be mouthing about this, in the same way that this incident shows that SF members will waste money when it suits them.

I have nothing per se against SF, I've spoken out about the mismanagement of public monies, the skirting of the rules and the lack of accountability in public service many times in the past.

Bannasidhe · 29-02-2012 11:42am

kippy wrote: »

It appears that this "printing press" is available to all members of the Oireactas if they wish to use it, however what is printed on it is monitored and must not contain election material etc.

The issue is around the waste of tax payers money, the lack of accountability/transparency and the continuing attitude of the political class that it's not their money.
On another level the issue is about the standards in public office and the questions that have been raised about who benefited from this 50K worth of ink.
Finally, yes, there is obviously political points scoring at play. I've already stated that and I've stated that it is a bit hypocritical of FF to be mouthing about this, in the same way that this incident shows that SF members will waste money when it suits them.

I have nothing per se against SF, I've spoken out about the mismanagement of public monies, the skirting of the rules and the lack of accountability in public service many times in the past.

and it now emerges that no record is kept of paper consumption :eek:.

Absolutely, kippy, it is about the lack of standards shown by those in public office.

walshb · 29-02-2012 11:51am

Kenny just got in a swipe at Adams regarding the printer and Northern bank.

I am watching Leader's questions here. It's like an episode of the muppets show. Really, it's that bad!

Godge · 29-02-2012 11:54am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

In 2007 O' Snodaigh used 215 cartridges compared to 48 for Michael Moynihan (FF). O' Snodaigh uses the argument that the bigger parties had priority access to the printing presses in Leinster House which he did not have.

It would be interesting if we could get Michael Moynihan's total usage of the Leinster House printing press as it may be the case that the 48 cartridges he claimed may not tell the whole story. If it can be shown that the bigger parties do not exploit this printing press then it would kill off his argument.

The simplest explanation is always the best one. The printing presses in Leinster House are closely monitored and you cannot print election material on them, neither can you print leaflets for other constituencies (such as those where your party has no TD).

However, taking the print cartridges out of stores and bringing them home/ to the constituency office/ SF HQ gets you away from all of those restrictions and you can do what you like with them. Incidentally he said on the radio that there were copies of the leaflets on his computer. I am sure there are tech experts that can examine his computer to verify the number of different leaflets typed up on it. Using his constituency numbers (allowing for those leaflets targeted on specific areas) it should be easy enough to find out whether he actually did use those numbers.

More complicated explanations are also possible - his father's printing company etc. but at the very least his own explanation should be investigated and verified if true. If not true, he should go. End of.

viztopia · 29-02-2012 12:00pm

i have a question to ask in relation to the usage of so many ink cartridges. Surley if so many cartridges were used for printing then they had to be printed on something. Should Aengus be asked to show receipts for all the paper he bought? (i heard one person on the radio say that with the amount of cartridges used it would equate to 3 million pages)

Pompey Magnus · 29-02-2012 12:06pm

Godge wrote: »

Incidentally he said on the radio that there were copies of the leaflets on his computer. I am sure there are tech experts that can examine his computer to verify the number of different leaflets typed up on it. Using his constituency numbers (allowing for those leaflets targeted on specific areas) it should be easy enough to find out whether he actually did use those numbers.

More complicated explanations are also possible - his father's printing company etc. but at the very least his own explanation should be investigated and verified if true. If not true, he should go. End of.

I completely agree. I, unlike a lot of people it seems, won't be jumping to conclusions or calling for official punishment before he is actually shown to have committed a crime though.

Pompey Magnus · 29-02-2012 12:09pm

viztopia wrote: »

i have a question to ask in relation to the usage of so many ink cartridges. Surley if so many cartridges were used for printing then they had to be printed on something. Should Aengus be asked to show receipts for all the paper he bought? (i heard one person on the radio say that with the amount of cartridges used it would equate to 3 million pages)

I didn't hear the interview this morning but apparently Pearse Doherty quoted a printing company estimate of approximately 50,000 newsletters (not sure if that is 1 page printed front and back) for that amount of cartridges, so 25,000 per year.

whippet · 29-02-2012 12:13pm

I would take the notion of 2-3million pages with a pinch of salt, toners will give a yield claim based on something like 5% coverage of a page.

I'd guess that the average page printed has about 30-55% coverage so the reality was probably about 300,000 sheets.

Anyway, what I have a problem with is the reaction of SF as an organization .. rather than accepting that this is a gross abuse of facilities their stock reaction is to criticize those who are critical of them ... the SF head who was on the 6-One news, 9 o'clock news, Primetime and VinB last night's answer to Micheal Martin was typical of SF. More or less said that SF can't be criticized by FF, you have posters on her deflecting the attention to Quinn's expenses, again more or less saying that SF can't be criticized by Labour etc ........

We all know that the reason why the official printing facilities were not used by AO'S as what he was printing was SF propaganda (distributed at every protest march that was going) and electoral material .. hence he had to do it himself

talkinyite · 29-02-2012 12:17pm

Hmz maybe SF just have to rely more upon grassroots media (pamphlets etc.) than other parties. I don't see the big deal.

Godge · 29-02-2012 12:24pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I completely agree. I, unlike a lot of people it seems, won't be jumping to conclusions or calling for official punishment before he is actually shown to have committed a crime though.

Yes, didn't the Oireachtas committee get hammered by the Courts for not giving Callely the benefit of innocence until proven guilty? O'Snodaigh is the same as Callely so while my opinion is in both cases that their behaviour is unacceptable and that they should resign, I will also accept any subsequent judgment by a third party if that differs from my opinion.

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I didn't hear the interview this morning but apparently Pearse Doherty quoted a printing company estimate of approximately 50,000 newsletters (not sure if that is 1 page printed front and back) for that amount of cartridges, so 25,000 per year.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sinn-fein-make-heavy-use-of-state-sponsored-toners-3034611.html

Pearse Doherty or the Independent on how many pages he could have printed? The print expert on newstalk yesterday? Sorry Pearse, but I don't believe a word you say on this.

29-02-2012 12:28pm

The SFers reactions to this are truly worthy of praise from Charlie J. Haughey himself.

jmayo · 29-02-2012 12:32pm

I don't know why people are shocked or even surprised at this.

Remember how during the Westminster expenses furore it came out that SF, the party that has refused to sit in parliament, was still claiming expenses for living in London.

The Sinn Fein MPs do not take their Commons seats, but received £105,000 between them in 2007/08 for London living expenses. The party rents two flats in the UK capital from the allowance.

So why is it a surprise now that SF would not join the gravy train in the Republic ?

I have to say there are probably a few ffers around today wishing they had actually come up with this scam.
Jeeze if they had maybe there could have been a new print supplier in Caherciveen or Castlebar.

walshb · 29-02-2012 1:11pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I completely agree. I, unlike a lot of people it seems, won't be jumping to conclusions or calling for official punishment before he is actually shown to have committed a crime though.

And we all know that the word crime doesn't exist in the gravy train of politics. At least it doesn't exist they way we perceive it to exist.

murphaph · 29-02-2012 1:13pm

Sully wrote: »

Christ, its only going to get worse now with the announcement of a referendum. His printer will be on overdrive.

Buh da wuurkin' klazzes don't be havin' interneh.

SF: Hyprocrites of the highest order. They don't give any more of a monkeys about wasting real working people's taxes than the rest of them.

Patser · 29-02-2012 1:14pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I didn't hear the interview this morning but apparently Pearse Doherty quoted a printing company estimate of approximately 50,000 newsletters (not sure if that is 1 page printed front and back) for that amount of cartridges, so 25,000 per year.

I did hear that interview, it was the Pat Kenny show this morning, and Pearse Doherty said that Dell had estimated that amount of cartridges would only produce 46,000 high quality, glossy, double-sided newsletters. Which, if true, meant it was costing more than €1 each in ink alone to produce this 'literature'.

Mind you Pearse didn't say that's how many were actually printed, just suggested it could be that low, possibly, you know, until proven otherwise.

Laminations · 29-02-2012 1:35pm

"I'm no freeloader. Part of my job as a TD and a public representative is to ensure that the public who elect me are kept informed," he said.
Last night, it emerged that Mr O Snodaigh's use of printer cartridges had dropped from a high of 215 in 2007 -- when there were no limits -- to just 18 last year. The cost of each printer toner ranges from €164 for a colour version to €48 for a black and white one.

His constituents either have to be informed or don't have to be informed, but we shouldn't accept him saying they have to be informed, but only when the taxpayer foots the bill.

What was so important that they had to get leaflets in 2007/2008 but not in 2009 onwards? Total discretionary indulgent waste of money. It needs to be investigated and now that Mary Lou has Said she '"can guarantee that all of the cartridges used were for the purposes envisaged and that Aengus used them legitimately and correctly in the course of his political work" she should face consequences if any misuse is uncovered.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sinn-fein-make-heavy-use-of-state-sponsored-toners-3034611.html

handlemaster · 29-02-2012 1:56pm

Where is the corresponding paper purchases/ supply for these cartridges !

Bannasidhe · 29-02-2012 2:09pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Where is the corresponding paper purchases/ supply for these cartridges !

It emerged last night that the Oireachtas does not monitor the amount of paper used by individual members -- which meant there were no limits on the paper supplies that Mr O Snodaigh could obtain.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sinn-fein-make-heavy-use-of-state-sponsored-toners-3034611.html

No way of knowing how much paper used or how much it cost apparently. The one thing we can be sure of is that the taxpayer paid for the paper too.

alastair · 29-02-2012 2:10pm

A cursory glance at this pic from irishelectionliterature suggests that AOS favours edge-to-edge or full bleed printing for his newsletters. I'm not aware of any Dell printer (if Pearse Doherty is right, and that's the printer we're talking about) that'll actually produce proper edge-to-edge prints, and if we're talking about inkjets, none of this stuff looks like inkjet printing. It looks like what it probably is - regular offset litho - which isn't going to turn into an inkblotter in the rain. Ignoring the obviously older materials here, and the purely election campaign stuff - which he couldn't print from the office, there's still nothing here that looks like it constitutes part of his massive constituency output.

meglome · 29-02-2012 2:39pm

alastair wrote: »

A cursory glance at this pic from irishelectionliterature suggests that AOS favours edge-to-edge or full bleed printing for his newsletters. I'm not aware of any Dell printer (if Pearse Doherty is right, and that's the printer we're talking about) that'll actually produce proper edge-to-edge prints, and if we're talking about inkjets, none of this stuff looks like inkjet printing. It looks like what it probably is - regular offset litho - which isn't going to turn into an inkblotter in the rain. Ignoring the obviously older materials here, and the purely election campaign stuff - which he couldn't print from the office, there's still nothing here that looks like it constitutes part of his massive constituency output.

As someone who in a previous life was involved in the tech side of digital printing I find it very hard to believe what SF are saying on this. What you show above just backs that up.
No one is their right mind would use basic inkjet printers for large amounts of printed material. It would A. be expensive and B. it would take an age to get the stuff printed. and C. the quality wouldn't be great.

john reilly · 29-02-2012 3:00pm

jmayo wrote: »

I don't know why people are shocked or even surprised at this.

Remember how during the Westminster expenses furore it came out that SF, the party that has refused to sit in parliament, was still claiming expenses for living in London.

So why is it a surprise now that SF would not join the gravy train in the Republic ?

I have to say there are probably a few ffers around today wishing they had actually come up with this scam.
Jeeze if they had maybe there could have been a new print supplier in Caherciveen or Castlebar.

so sinn fein mp's were claiming expenses from the british. I for one hope they took them for every penny they could

JustinDee · 29-02-2012 3:09pm

john reilly wrote: »

so sinn fein mp's were claiming expenses from the british. I for one hope they took them for every penny they could

Oh the irony of it all . . .

jmayo · 29-02-2012 3:30pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Where is the corresponding paper purchases/ supply for these cartridges !

Not alone that where are the printers.
Because one single printer would not have lasted doing such an output.

john reilly wrote: »

so sinn fein mp's were claiming expenses from the british. I for one hope they took them for every penny they could

I always found it hugely ironic that all those fighting to get the Queen out of Northern Ireland were more than happy to accept free money from her government. :rolleyes:

Rafa1977 · 29-02-2012 3:50pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

and it now emerges that no record is kept of paper consumption :eek:.

Absolutely, kippy, it is about the lack of standards shown by those in public office.

Incorrect. Paper consumption is recorded like toner. When somebody goes to the Stores room it is recorded aganist their name in the same way as toner.

Dr Galen · 29-02-2012 3:52pm

The posting standards in this forum are going to have to improve or else we're looking at sanctions being handed out and/or the thread being locked. That would be a serious shame because this is a really valid topic and should be discussed here.

Cheers

DrG

murphaph · 29-02-2012 4:22pm

Things really don't add up here. Did O'Snodaigh take 215 toner cartridges or 215 inkjet cartridges?

Either way it's a disgrace and he should foot the bill himself but if he took 215 toner cartridges then I think it's a lot more sinister. You couldn't use up that sort of quatity of toner in 2 years unless you had an army of printers as well.

In any case, laser printed or injkjet printed material wouldn't be suitable for handing out as flyers and jusging by the samples above, most if not all is clearly from a printing works. So where did these 215 cartridges really go?

Stripey Cat · 29-02-2012 4:31pm

murphaph wrote: »

In any case, laser printed or injkjet printed material wouldn't be suitable for handing out as flyers and jusging by the samples above, most if not all is clearly from a printing works. So where did these 215 cartridges really go?

It's like a mystery, wrapped up in an enigma, isn't it?

Unless, maybe he did actually print a lot of leaflets and newsletters, and letterheaded paper, and write to a lot of people.

And the Daily Mail, Indo, et al have overstated the figures for the amount of literature you actually can print with these cartridges, just to suit their own agenda, in a week when SF were doing well in the polls at the expense of more establishment parties.

And the problem for SF was that they didn't have lots of money from private donors to spend on printing like these other parties, so they tended to rely on Leinster House facilities, which are expensive to the taxpayer, but free to them.

That could be it.

Or he could be emptying the ink out into a bath to swim in?

Bannasidhe · 29-02-2012 4:49pm

Stripey Cat wrote: »

It's like a mystery, wrapped up in an enigma, isn't it?

Unless, maybe he did actually print a lot of leaflets and newsletters, and letterheaded paper, and write to a lot of people.

And the Daily Mail, Indo, et al have overstated the figures for the amount of literature you actually can print with these cartridges, just to suit their own agenda, in a week when SF were doing well in the polls at the expense of more establishment parties.

And the problem for SF was that they didn't have lots of money from private donors to spend on printing like these other parties, so they tended to rely on Leinster House facilities, which are expensive to the taxpayer, but free to them.

That could be it.

That could indeed be it. The problem I have with that explanation is while I have yet to hear any resident in his constituency state that they recall receiving large numbers of SF newsletters during the period in question I have heard a lot claim to have never received a leaflet from him at all.

Sully · 29-02-2012 4:50pm

So while the few that are trying to defend this expense, can I ask this.

The whole idea behind this, according to the good man himself who may I remind everyone claimed 30k expenses in 2011(!!!!), was to be a good TD and inform the people. Hence why he spent 50k of our own money over a few years trying to communicate with the people on a daily basis. However, when new rules were introduced meaning a TD is only given a certain level of free printing - he cut the printing down significantly.

So this means that he either stopped communicating with people as often as he did, because he wont spend his own wages on it, or he is getting it outsourced to an outside firm who are keeping his communication levels the same and he is indeed spending his own wages (or maybe its part of the 30k expenses) on communicating with the people. IF it was the latter, than why has he exceeded the "free" level of printing by a few grand and not paid it back yet? It also shows a level of tightness that he wants to rob us for as much as he can take. We also never heard of any tendering process, or regardless, heard of who is doing his printing.

With all this taken into account - good or bad, he was and still is robbing us blind for as much as he can taken. Between these expenses and his general expenses, he is not exactly painting the Sinn Fein image in a great light.

murphaph · 29-02-2012 5:13pm

Stripey Cat wrote: »

And the problem for SF was that they didn't have lots of money from private donors to spend on printing like these other parties

Eh, come again?

To be honest I don't like that SF should be using my taxes to make up a shortfall in donations to their party! Perhaps they should lobby towards a limit or ban on this propoganda junk mail, rather than entering into an arms race with FG paid for out of my taxes!

rodento · 29-02-2012 5:37pm

Would love to know if the toner cartridges matched the make/model of his printer

Sierra Oscar · 29-02-2012 5:37pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That could indeed be it. The problem I have with that explanation is while I have yet to hear any resident in his constituency state that they recall receiving large numbers of SF newsletters during the period in question I have heard a lot claim to have never received a leaflet from him at all.

Going by some figures, O'Snodaigh would have had to drop 100 leaflets to every household in his constiuency in order for his figures to stack up. I would imagine he was producing literature for outside of his constiuency, which he denies.

juan.kerr · 29-02-2012 5:47pm

Sounds like someone did a hard copy backup of their extensive stash of pornographic material.

Stripey Cat · 29-02-2012 5:49pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I would imagine he was producing literature for outside of his constiuency, which he denies.

Would that be so bad though?

Ministers falsifying mileage claims put the money into their own pockets. In contrast, it sounds like you're accusing him of helping out campaigns like the anti-bin charges groups etc.

Is that really such a big deal?

SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

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