Twenty years on – Peter McBride’s killer remains in British army

golden lane · 13-09-2012 12:57am

Fenian Army wrote: »

It wasnt the Berlin wall, they just smuggled stuff over on unofficial roads and what not, was a minor inconvenience at most.

As for the Brits having border crossing etc, all they were good for was harassing the local community and being tasty targets for the IRA.

your word tasty.....referring to an organisation that killed many innocent irish people......how tasty were they ?......or did they have a scale of tastyness..

it is shamefull to use words like that....

Fenian Army · 13-09-2012 12:58am

I think Liverpool today is evidence enough as to the need for the truth.

There are lots of people who would be willing to talk about what they did if there wasn't the specter of a two year prison sentence hanging over their heads.

Fenian Army · 13-09-2012 1:01am

K-9 wrote: »

Sorry lads,

the border is irrelevant to murdering unarmed Gardai in cold blood. A border doesn't make them armed or make it more legitimate.

Make your position clear and loud lads, INLA and the RIRA.

Presumably murdering unarmed Gardai is fine, after all the INLA did itr, dissidents.

Who here is saying its fine to kill Garda?

Even the IRA, as demonstrated through General Order 8, didn't think it was.

K-9 · 13-09-2012 1:04am

Fenian Army wrote: »

I think Liverpool today is evidence enough as to the need for the truth.

There are lots of people who would be willing to talk about what they did if there wasn't the specter of a two year prison sentence hanging over their heads.

Liverpool stands on its own

So, the shooting of unarmed Gardai, I know you are going to great lengths to avoid then truth..

The police and emergency forces at Hillsborough did go to great lengths to avoid the truth too.

You put across the view of dissidents, all I'm asking is the view of dissidents who murdered unarmed Gardai in cold blood.

Happyman42 · 13-09-2012 1:04am

Laminations wrote: »

You really can't say that. You have no idea how many attacks would have occurred had border security not been there. Not catchIng much cross border trafficking of arms or dissidents might mean that this was being engaged in far less than had the border not been there.

If you lived along the border you would realise what a stupid and wasteful policy it was. The where loads of crossing points and it was those that where used. I used plenty of them myself smuggling washing powder, butter and tellys.
It has never, to my knowledge, been cited by former IRA members as an obstacle to mounting an attack.

K-9 · 13-09-2012 1:08am

Fenian Army constantly reports on dissident activity, all I'm looking for was dissident reports on the murder of unarmed Gardai 20/30 years ago.

golden lane · 13-09-2012 1:12am

K-9 wrote: »

Fenian Army constantly reports on dissident activity, all I'm looking for was dissident reports on the murder of unarmed Gardai 20/30 years ago.

there is no justification for so called patriots to kill innocent irish people.....

yet they seemed to have relished it.....a strange world this is...

Fenian Army · 13-09-2012 1:15am

K-9 wrote: »

Liverpool stands on its own

So, the shooting of unarmed Gardai, I know you are going to great lengths to avoid then truth..

The police and emergency forces at Hillsborough did go to great lengths to avoid the truth too.

You put across the view of dissidents, all I'm asking is the view of dissidents who murdered unarmed Gardai in cold blood.

I'm not a dissident am I? I'm a republican, and support Sinn Féin, and yes, the peace process. (as you well know)

My view on people like Dominic McGlinchey? I've already said he was a lunatic.

Do I think Garda should have been killed? - no, I already said that it was tragic and would have preferred it didn't happen. What more do you want me to say?

K-9 wrote: »

Fenian Army constantly reports on dissident activity, all I'm looking for was dissident reports on the murder of unarmed Gardai 20/30 years ago.

"Dissident reports"? You've lost me now.

Happyman42 · 13-09-2012 1:16am

K-9 wrote: »

Presumably murdering unarmed Gardai is fine

Who said that?

Gardai died needlessly, as did a lot of others.
IF Garda actions caused the deaths of innocents, would that mean there was a policy of murdering innocents in AGS.
To say that it was an attack on the state is a bit of a stretch, the IRA could have targeted the Dail, TD's and attacked the state in many other more effective ways if it was a policy, they didn't.

K-9 · 13-09-2012 1:21am

Fenian Army wrote: »

I'm not a dissident am I? I'm a republican, and support Sinn Féin, and yes, the peace process. (as you well know)

My view on people like Dominic McGlinchey? I've already said he was a lunatic.

Do I think Garda should have been killed? - no, I already said that it was tragic and would have preferred it didn't happen. What more do you want me to say?

"Dissident reports"? You've lost me now.

We agree but yet somehow we end up on this merry go round.

I just give up.

But still, aqnybody, especially somebody who knows about the state, the Gardai being unarmed ia a very proud point of this state.

Yep, bewing Republican is very brave, 32 county etc., 26 county, unarmed, against a bomb or a gun.

Get a grip on reality

Fenian Army · 13-09-2012 1:29am

K-9 wrote: »

We agree but yet somehow we end up on this merry go round.

I just give up.

But still, aqnybody, especially somebody who knows about the state, the Gardai being unarmed ia a very proud point of this state.

Yep, bewing Republican is very brave, 32 county etc., 26 county, unarmed, against a bomb or a gun.

Get a grip on reality

Lets be clear, you asked how many were killed, I answered. You then embarked on some sort of crusade, putting words into peoples mouths. But mission successful I guess, you and others have managed to drag us down this road to the stage where the thread will probably be locked.

Why don't you have anything to say about Peter McBride, and those like him? Does the fact I'm a republican championing his cause lessen the validity of it? Even if you think I'm coming from a hypocritical position (I dont think I am, I've been perfectly clear that I want all sides treated equally) that doesnt mean that Peter McBride's case should get drowned in a sea of "what about Jerry McCabe" style posts.

golden lane · 13-09-2012 1:37am

Fenian Army wrote: »

Lets be clear, you asked how many were killed, I answered. You then embarked on some sort of crusade, putting words into peoples mouths. But mission successful I guess, you and others have managed to drag us down this road to the stage where the thread will probably be locked.

Why don't you have anything to say about Peter McBride, and those like him? Does the fact I'm a republican championing his cause lessen the validity of it? Even if you think I'm coming from a hypocritical position (I dont think I am, I've been perfectly clear that I want all sides treated equally) that doesnt mean that Peter McBride's case should get drowned in a sea of "what about Jerry McCabe" style posts.

the death of Peter Mc bride is a very sad episode in a conflict with many very sad episodes.....

maybe his killers thought he was a very tasty target.......and like many other killers on both sides with very tasty targets.......are free to walk around today..

K-9 · 13-09-2012 1:39am

Fenian Army wrote: »

Lets be clear, you asked how many were killed, I answered. You then embarked on some sort of crusade, putting words into peoples mouths. But mission successful I guess, you and others have managed to drag us down this road to the stage where the thread will probably be locked.

Why don't you have anything to say about Peter McBride, and those like him? Does the fact I'm a republican championing his cause lessen the validity of it? Even if you think I'm coming from a hypocritical position (I dont think I am, I've been perfectly clear that I want all sides treated equally) that doesnt mean that Peter McBride's case should get drowned in a sea of "what about Jerry McCabe" style posts.

I never mentioned Jerry Mcabe once, you are the first person to mention him, well done FA.
I specifically mentioned unarmed Gardai, never once mentioned armed.
I always mentioned unarmed Gardai, never armed.
Stop trying to bring armed detectives into it.
Why are you trying to bring an armed detective into it?
Deal with Republicans and unarmed Gardai, nothing else.
What sort of person murders an unarmed Garda in cold blood, unarmed, running downa alane, shoots them in te back, an unarmed member of the Gradai?

Fenian Army · 13-09-2012 1:48am

K-9 wrote: »

I never mentioned Jerry Mcabe once, you are the first person to mention him, well done FA.
I specifically mentioned unarmed Gardai, never once mentioned armed.
I always mentioned unarmed Gardai, never armed.
Stop trying to bring armed detectives into it.
Why are you trying to bring an armed detective into it?
Deal with Republicans and unarmed Gardai, nothing else.
What sort of person murders an unarmed Garda in cold blood, unarmed, running downa alane, shoots them in te back, an unarmed member of the Gradai?

K-9, with the greatest of respect, you're not making much sense and your last few points are lacking your customarily impeccable structure, spelling and syntax. You feeling ok?

I've made my feeling quite clear on how I feel about the killing of members of AGS, but out of curiosity what specific instance are you referring to?

K-9 · 13-09-2012 1:56am

Fenian Army wrote: »

K-9, with the greatest of respect, you're not making much sense and your last few points are lacking your customarily impeccable structure, spelling and syntax. You feeling ok?

I've made my feeling quite clear on how I feel about the killing of members of AGS, but out of curiosity what specific instance are you referring to?

You seem to be trying to say that the IRA roved around the 26 killing Garda, but that's not the case. In 1948 a General Army Convention issued an order, General Order No.8 which forbade "any armed action whatsoever" against the forces of the 26 county state. This seems to me to have been pretty much giving legitimacy to the 26 count state. Makes you wonder what the subsequent fuss was over in the mid eighties then.

Anyway, the IRA in many cases went out of their way not to engage the Gardaí, even when it meant arrest and/or the loss of guns and equipment.

Just because you read someting in the green book, doesn't make it true, as much it you'd like it to be all romantic and everything.

Happyman42 · 13-09-2012 9:16am

K-9 wrote: »

Just because you read someting in the green book, doesn't make it true, as much it you'd like it to be all romantic and everything.

I think everybody accepts (including Mrs Winsdor) 'that there were things done, that we wish had not been done' K9. You'll have to present more evidence of a 'concerted policy' to attack the Irish State to avoid accusations of 'whataboutery'.

K-9 · 13-09-2012 9:45am

Happyman42 wrote: »

I think everybody accepts (including Mrs Winsdor) 'that there were things done, that we wish had not been done' K9. You'll have to present more evidence of a 'concerted policy' to attack the Irish State to avoid accusations of 'whataboutery'.

I'm out of the wordplay and excuses.

Shooting unarmed Gardai was regretable, something bad, we wish it never happened but bad things happen in this bad, bad world. Sorry bank robbers shot unarmed Gardai running after armed bank robbers. Still, Happyman thinks the state should have let them roam the border unfettered.

As for Fenian Army, my point has nothing to with Gerry McCabe, he was an armed detective, these guys were unarmed, so those excuse don't work.

Happyman42 · 13-09-2012 10:11am

K-9 wrote: »

Still, Happyman thinks the state should have let them roam the border unfettered.

Can you point out where I said they should have been let 'roam the border unfettered'?
I said: the securing of the border was ineffective.
I agreed with you that roaming patrols would have been more effective. The only substantial thing, static checkpoints achieved, was to enflame and severely inconveinence ordinary citizens and it was done to appease the British and Unionists. The onus and expense should have been on them to secure a border we constitutionally objected to and deemed illegitimate.
But what does our constitution matter when it comes to doffing the hat and kowtowing? Look at the state papers from the time and see the pressure we succumbed to.

K-9 · 13-09-2012 10:30am

Happyman42 wrote: »

Can you point out where I said they should have been let 'roam the border unfettered'?
I said: the securing of the border was ineffective.
I agreed with you that roaming patrols would have been more effective. The only substantial thing, static checkpoints achieved, was to enflame and severely inconveinence ordinary citizens and it was done to appease the British and Unionists. The onus and expense should have been on them to secure a border we constitutionally objected to and deemed illegitimate.
But what does our constitution matter when it comes to doffing the hat and kowtowing? Look at the state papers from the time and see the pressure we succumbed to.

Refuse to maintain the border.

It is a rather broad simplistic statement alright.

Happyman42 · 13-09-2012 11:42am

K-9 wrote: »

Refuse to maintain the border.

It is a rather broad simplistic statement alright.

As is saying that the fact that Gardai died means that the IRA had a policy and objective to attack the state. They didn't.

Laminations · 13-09-2012 11:50am

Happyman42 wrote: »

As is saying that the fact that Gardai died means that the IRA had a policy and objective to attack the state. They didn't.

Neither do bulls. It doesn't mean you let them run around the country unabated. The IRA were dangerous, to Irish citizens and law enforcement as well as British so it was completely in the governments interests to maintain the border and frustrate the activity of the IRA.

Happyman42 · 13-09-2012 12:32pm

Laminations wrote: »

Neither do bulls. It doesn't mean you let them run around the country unabated. The IRA were dangerous, to Irish citizens and law enforcement as well as British so it was completely in the governments interests to maintain the border and frustrate the activity of the IRA.

Which doesn't mean that the IRA had a policy to 'attack the state'. :rolleyes:

I think most people would agree that they ran around the country 'unabated'.
Security on the border did not present a substantial obstacle to smugglers, but you are now contending that it did to a subversive army engaged in covert guerilla warfare?

It was just another example of an ineffectual response to the problem.

SocSocPol · 13-09-2012 2:47pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Which doesn't mean that the IRA had a policy to 'attack the state'. :rolleyes:

I think most people would agree that they ran around the country 'unabated'.
Security on the border did not present a substantial obstacle to smugglers, but you are now contending that it did to a subversive army engaged in covert guerilla warfare? It was just another example of an ineffectual response to the problem.

I have to agree there (shock-horror), security on the border was and remains largely ineffectual in stopping both smuggling and terrorism.
Peter Robinson made that point in his leading a violent attack on Clontibret in the 80's and the constant dumping of highly toxic diesel sludge by pseudo-republicans on a near daily basis proves it today.
A border as open as ours cannot really ever be secured, even the wall of fortified lookout posts operated by the British in the 1990's were ineffectual.

Chuck Stone · 14-09-2012 7:11pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

If you want to praise an Irish politician for at least doing something to bring us towards peace (no where near enough) Haughey is the man you should be praising.

Albert Reynolds doesn't get nearly enough credit for getting the PP ball rolling.

SocSocPol wrote: »

A border as open as ours cannot really ever be secured, even the wall of fortified lookout posts operated by the British in the 1990's were ineffectual.

Which is a very good reason to synchronise all sorts of public policy between north and south (doing away with green (red?) diesel north and south would take millions away from the border gangsters)

The problem with this is the paranoid Unionists who would only read it as being 'UI creep'.

Son Of A Vidic · 14-09-2012 11:30pm

Laminations wrote: »

Really tired of these threads.

Really tired of people who need to post that they're really tired of a particular thread. Threads are easily skipped past you know and I'm sure nobody forced you to enter the thread. So why don't you do what most of us do and simply ignore threads we don't like/are not interested in. Because it certainly beats silly and unnecessary whining.

Laminations · 15-09-2012 9:25am

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Really tired of people who need to post that they're really tired of a particular thread. Threads are easily skipped past you know and I'm sure nobody forced you to enter the thread. So why don't you do what most of us do and simply ignore threads we don't like/are not interested in. Because it certainly beats silly and unnecessary whining.

Change 'thread' to 'post' and take your own advice. Jog on. And I made a point that was more substantive than the cropped quote you criticised.

Happyman42 · 15-09-2012 12:34pm

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Really tired of people who need to post that they're really tired of a particular thread. Threads are easily skipped past you know and I'm sure nobody forced you to enter the thread. So why don't you do what most of us do and simply ignore threads we don't like/are not interested in. Because it certainly beats silly and unnecessary whining.

It's just the quaint expression of some boards.ie posters dream of having their own Section 31 legislation!

Son Of A Vidic · 16-09-2012 3:35am

Laminations wrote: »

Change 'thread' to 'post' and take your own advice. Jog on. And I made a point that was more substantive than the cropped quote you criticised.

Jog on? All a bit tired and juvenile.

Your contribution to this thread started with....

Laminations wrote: »

Really tired of these threads.

Who cares that you're tired of 'these' threads. What you posted after that was not the issue, but why you needed to lead off with that irrelevant and almost narcissistic like statement is beyond me.

Happyman42 · 16-09-2012 10:06am

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Jog on? All a bit tired and juvenile.

Your contribution to this thread started with....

Who cares that you're tired of 'these' threads. What you posted after that was not the issue, but why you needed to lead off with that irrelevant and almost narcissistic like statement is beyond me.

The enduring problem in Ireland is the prevalence of those who don't care, tire easily or who vociferously indulge in the politics of the last atrocity. They are only 'concerned' when the situation affects them. They label and box people because that allows them to condemn them from their carefully constructed high moral ground.
It's what is happening with the Peter McBride case and the Marian Price case, to give them the benefit of ordinary human rights somehow validates whatever box or label they have given them. That kind of willful ignoring of the prediciment other Irish citizens find themselves in existed and still exists in the Irish Government, it insulates them from actually having to do something.

Twenty years on – Peter McBride’s killer remains in British army

Comments