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Discussion on "Cisgender" as an offensive term

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  • 17-01-2015 11:27am
    #1
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I dont think it is completely irrelevant to where you rent if you end up living with homophobic or transphobic people. This isnt about segregation. Its about living with someone that you can feel comfortable living with.

    I think for some people who are heterosexual and cisgender this may be difficult to understand as they may never have experienced sexual orientation or gender identity discrimination.

    Firstly I find cisgender a highly offensive term. It's like calling someone a ni**er and is only ever used in the context of explaining how "nobody knows the trouble I've been through". There is no need to be putting labels on people. I'm not saying you're wrong but there is no need for the name calling. Throughout the LGBT community people think it's fine to use but outside of that many people don't like it.

    Are the chances of that actually high though. 80% of people support gay marriage, 20% are against. Nearly all of those 20% are from the over 65s and wouldn't be renting anyway.


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    #2
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    GarIT wrote: »
    Firstly I find cisgender a highly offensive term. It's like calling someone a ni**er and is only ever used in the context of explaining how "nobody knows the trouble I've been through". There is no need to be putting labels on people. I'm not saying you're wrong but there is no need for the name calling. Throughout the LGBT community people think it's fine to use but outside of that many people don't like it.

    Are the chances of that actually high though. 80% of people support gay marriage, 20% are against. Nearly all of those 20% are from the over 65s and wouldn't be renting anyway.

    I dont agree at all that this is name calling.

    Cisgender is not an offensive term. Just like heterosexual isnt.

    Breeder could be considered offensive but cisgender can in no way be compared to the term ni**er. It really cant.

    I'm a cisgender gay male. So what.

    At the end of the day what does it really matter to you if some people would prefer to live with lgbt or lgbt friendly people.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I dont agree at all that this is name calling.

    Cisgender is not an offensive term. Just like heterosexual isnt.

    Breeder could be considered offensive but cisgender can in no way be compared to the term ni**er. It really cant.

    I'm a cisgender gay male. So what.

    At the end of the day what does it really matter to you if some people would prefer to live with lgbt or lgbt friendly people.

    Cisgender is a term invented on tumblr to discriminate against non trans. I will not converse with anyone who uses it. Hopefully some of the people that read this will think before they start with the hate speech.

    Of course it doesn't matter to me, just like it doesn't matter to you or anybody else. I was just trying to be helpful.


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    #4
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    GarIT wrote: »
    Cisgender is a term invented on tumblr to discriminate against non trans. I will not converse with anyone who uses it. Hopefully some of the people that read this will think before they start with the hate speech.
    Lol just lol.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #5
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Lol just lol.

    That's nice isn't it, are you really just going to descend into childishness? I'm sure there are many names I could call you that are factually correct but that you wouldn't like but guess what I don't. I am not cisgendered.

    You cant compare cisgender to homosexual as cusgender isn't a real word and is not used by the science community.


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    #6
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    As I said lol

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    As I said lol

    So you have nothing better to say than "I don't give a **** about how I have made you feel"

    For somebody who moderates a form where sensitivity to the feelings of others is needed you are really ****ing insensitive.


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    #8
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cisgender isnt a hate speech term and I will continue to use it as I see fit.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Cisgender isnt a hate speech term and I will continue to use it as I see fit.
    UrbanDictionary wrote:
    A derogatory term used by members of the trans community to refer to all the disgusting people in this world who don't hate their genitalia.

    And I will exit this discussion here because I don't want to deal with your homophobia and hatred of anyone who isn't like you.
    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Why not stick to the topic at hand GarIT and let's try to help the op.

    Of all the post on this thread, I am the only person that offered advice or received any thanks. Really who is it that is not sticking to the topic at hand? I am the only posted that has actually offered any reasonable help to the OP. Do some reading before you name people.


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    #10
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    I've read plenty of scientific articles and know plenty of scientists/doctors who use the word cisgender. It seems like a pretty good word to describe people who aren't transgender.


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    #11
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    GarIT wrote: »
    You cant compare cisgender to homosexual as cusgender isn't a real word and is not used by the science community.

    The term cisgender originated in the scientific community, a cursory glance of wikipedia will tell you this, it is clinical in it's origins. Cis is a latin prefix, see here. In chemistry there are cis and trans isomers, that should tell you how clinical and neutral a term it is. Cisgender is to transgender as heteroesexual is to homosexual, all it means is "not trans".


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    #12
    somefeen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭somefeen


    The problem is, 'normal' people dont like to have medical sounding terms applied to them. Its a hard pill to swallow. When I started learning about trans people and gender identities I didnt like it either.


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think cisgender was ever intended to be an offensive term, sure it's used in a perjorative sense by some idiots on Tumblr ("die cis scum" etc.) but they're just silly people with blogs and a massive victim complex.

    As for using Urban Dictionary as a citation.... :pac:
    somefeen wrote: »
    The problem is, 'normal' people dont like to have medical sounding terms applied to them. Its a hard pill to swallow. When I started learning about trans people and gender identities I didnt like it either.

    Can't imagine trans people particularly enjoy being described as being "not normal", as if they're somehow less than human.


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    #14
    somefeen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭somefeen


    Deleted User wrote: »



    Can't imagine trans people particularly enjoy being described as being "not normal", as if they're somehow less than human.

    I don't think you got what I was trying to say. normal is has apostrophes around it for a reason.

    Most people don't like to have medically sounding terms attached to them because people with terms like that aren't 'normal' like them. To them its like inventing a medical term for perfectly healthy. Whereas for the rest of us it just means, not trans.
    I didn't like the word at first because of how I've seen it used but I dont care now and its actually useful as a short way of saying I'm not transgendered, androgynous etc etc


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    #15
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    I think it's about context. I hate when I read a throwaway statement like 'cishet ___' as it only serves to flare up others. It's a legitimate term though and a neutral one.


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    #16
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    somefeen wrote: »
    I don't think you got what I was trying to say. normal is has apostrophes around it for a reason.

    Most people don't like to have medically sounding terms attached to them because people with terms like that aren't 'normal' like them. To them its like inventing a medical term for perfectly healthy. Whereas for the rest of us it just means, not trans.
    I didn't like the word at first because of how I've seen it used but I dont care now and its actually useful as a short way of saying I'm not transgendered, androgynous etc etc

    Chill out homo sapien.


    ****, sorry, is that offensive too?

    Honestly, I think people should be sensitive to how they use language, and how it can have the power to hurt and offend, but this is just ridiculous.

    If people are upset about being called "scientific" or "clinical" terms, then they have bigger problems to worry about them being called said terms.


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    #17
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    It's not offensive. It's ridiculous. Its only benefit is as a warning beacon that the person using it is a shrill gender studies type who can safely be ignored. You might need labels, I don't.


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    #18
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    It's not offensive. It's ridiculous. Its only benefit is as a warning beacon that the person using it is a shrill gender studies type who can safely be ignored. You might need labels, I don't.

    Lol just lol.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #19
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    It's not offensive. It's ridiculous. Its only benefit is as a warning beacon that the person using it is a shrill gender studies type who can safely be ignored. You might need labels, I don't.

    Then how are we meant to refer to people who aren't trans?

    Non-trans people would be absurd as a descriptor.

    Your beef should be with how the word is used by some, not the word itself.


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    #20
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    I dont think there is any word that could usefully define 99.7% of the populations gender status as if it were uniform. I think the term is divisive and deliberately so - an attempt to define the vast majority of the population based on what they are not rather than what they are.

    But hey, that's probably just my cis privilege talking


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    #21
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Next you're gonna start quoting urban dictionary

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #22
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    But hey, that's probably just my cis privilege talking

    Think you nailed it right there. It's a little sore to be branded an unfamiliar name initially but it is a legitimate one and I have no qualms being called so. If concern-trolls on Tumblr are the reason you have a problem with it, ignore them. The word is just as valid as heterosexual, nobody is offended by being called that now because it's just accepted.


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    #23
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Better exit stage left before my non queer normative cissiness is exposed any further!


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    #24
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    I dont think there is any word that could usefully define 99.7% of the populations gender status as if it were uniform. I think the term is divisive and deliberately so - an attempt to define the vast majority of the population based on what they are not rather than what they are.

    But hey, that's probably just my cis privilege talking

    There will clearly be contexts do were you do need to refer to them - for example if you wanted to discuss the disproportionate level of violence against trans people, how can you do so without referring to the rate of assaults carried out against both communities.

    It is much like "straight" or heterosexual - yea, they are all one big diverse group but there are plenty of occasions where it's approrpiate to refer to straight or heterosexual people without IT being divisive.


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    #25
    somefeen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭somefeen


    floggg wrote: »
    Chill out homo sapien.


    ****, sorry, is that offensive too?

    Honestly, I think people should be sensitive to how they use language, and how it can have the power to hurt and offend, but this is just ridiculous.

    If people are upset about being called "scientific" or "clinical" terms, then they have bigger problems to worry about them being called said terms.

    I am explaining why people have a problem with it. Im not agreeing with their reasons or disagreeing.


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