Lads. W.T.F?

J Mysterio · 19-11-2014 11:07pm

Avant guard

hatrickpatrick · 19-11-2014 11:09pm

It should be very obvious based on facial expression, movement etc that the Garda who threw her acted out of rage rather than anything practical, IMO.

Miike · 19-11-2014 11:11pm

wexie wrote: »

certainly not the kind of behaviour or apology you'd expect from the likes of a hairy-knuckle-dragging-violence-fetishist as the average gard is portrayed round these parts some time

I'm not 100% sure if that's a generalisation or if it's directed at me?

All I've said so far is that those comments were unwarrented, with the apology considered it's softens to blow entirely. In fact I think it speaks much more about him that he was willing to apologise for his comments and admit his wrong doing on a public forum, fair play.

Murphy7777 · 19-11-2014 11:16pm

Barely There wrote: »

I'd imagine you deserved it somehow.

I deserved to be thrown on the ground, handcuffed, pushed around and thrown into a tiny cold cell for about 4 hours for making a smart comment, and they justify it because I was after a bit of drink….Hope this happens to you someday and see how much you fell you "deserve" it

wexie · 19-11-2014 11:22pm

Miike wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure if that's a generalisation or if it's directed at me?

geez no, not directed at you at all

Miike wrote: »

In fact I think it speaks much more about him that he was willing to apologise for his comments and admit his wrong doing on a public forum, fair play.

This is what I meant, someone so willing to acknowledge being wrong and apologising so forthrightly hardly seems to fit the stereotype.

In fact, it'd nearly make you wonder if some gards are like, you know, nearly human?

KERSPLAT! · 19-11-2014 11:23pm

Murphy7777 wrote: »

I deserved to be thrown on the ground, handcuffed, pushed around and thrown into a tiny cold cell for about 4 hours for making a smart comment, and they justify it because I was after a bit of drink….Hope this happens to you someday and see how much you fell you "deserve" it

Drunk and disorderly I'd imagine, if that's what they thought you were then it sounds fair enough to me.

Did you want a luxury cell? One with a fire, electric blanket and maybe a pool table. Cells are supposed to be small and cold, you aren't supposed to like it there.

Murphy7777 · 19-11-2014 11:35pm

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Drunk and disorderly I'd imagine, if that's what they thought you were then it sounds fair enough to me.

Did you want a luxury cell? One with a fire, electric blanket and maybe a pool table. Cells are supposed to be small and cold, you aren't supposed to like it there.

"if that's what they thought you were then it sounds fair enough to me. " Thats exactly whats wrong with the guards today and why guards like this get away with so much, because people like you assume that what a guard says is 100% truth. I have said exactly 100% what happened and straight away you assume the guards must be right…..crazy that people are so quick to defend the guards without even knowing the situation.

And yeah thanks for clearing up that a cell is not a place you are supposed to like…great input..well done

Potential-Monke · 20-11-2014 12:27am

I know we're gone way off topic, but what was the comment and the circumstances Murphy777? You mentioned how you were arrested, but nothing of what was happening beforehand, why you were involved, why you made the comment and what comment was made. You then said that you, referring to KERSPLAT!, assume the Gardaí must be right without knowing the situation, but you didn't give a situation, you gave your side of the story, which isn't enough to give an educated answer. And many people have come and gone with accusations like yourself, whether founded in truth or no, and expect people to believe them without giving all the facts, and just their side of the story. So, yeah, people assume the Gardaí are right, because 99.9% of the time they are.

Murphy7777 · 20-11-2014 5:16pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I know we're gone way off topic, but what was the comment and the circumstances Murphy777? You mentioned how you were arrested, but nothing of what was happening beforehand, why you were involved, why you made the comment and what comment was made. You then said that you, referring to KERSPLAT!, assume the Gardaí must be right without knowing the situation, but you didn't give a situation, you gave your side of the story, which isn't enough to give an educated answer. And many people have come and gone with accusations like yourself, whether founded in truth or no, and expect people to believe them without giving all the facts, and just their side of the story. So, yeah, people assume the Gardaí are right, because 99.9% of the time they are.

"because 99.9% of the time they are." There we go again, exactly the point I am making, excellent stuff! There was nothing in the situation, the guards were telling us to move away from somewhere after a night out, I gave a smart comment and that was that, threw me on the ground arrested me and I spent the night in the cell for being "drunk and disorderly" guard was in a bad mood so decided to take it out on me and of course the person who is after a bit of drink is definitely wrong…not the D******d of a guard who was just in a bad mood, argue this all you like, this is exactly what happened.

wexie · 20-11-2014 5:21pm

Murphy7777 wrote: »

the guards were telling us to move away from somewhere after a night out, I gave a smart comment and that was that, threw me on the ground arrested me and I spent the night in the cell for being "drunk and disorderly" .

So what you're saying is that if you'd listened to the gard and not been disrespectful....you'd have stayed out of the drunktank?

I think I see a cause and effect here....:rolleyes:

source · 20-11-2014 7:29pm

Murphy7777 wrote: »

"because 99.9% of the time they are." There we go again, exactly the point I am making, excellent stuff! There was nothing in the situation, the guards were telling us to move away from somewhere after a night out, I gave a smart comment and that was that, threw me on the ground arrested me and I spent the night in the cell for being "drunk and disorderly" guard was in a bad mood so decided to take it out on me and of course the person who is after a bit of drink is definitely wrong…not the D******d of a guard who was just in a bad mood, argue this all you like, this is exactly what happened.

So what you're saying is you were doing something that caused the member to invoke section 8 of the public order act, and then refused to leave. You then made a "smart remark"(you still haven't enlightened us to what you said), and were arrested probably for a mixture of failing to comply with the direction and the "smart comment" which I'd bet was a breach of section 6 POA.

So you were committing the original public order offence which drew the members attention to you (generally 4, 5 or 6 POA) then breached another two sections of the act before he arrested you.

From experience people who are intoxicated, unless they're comatose, are full of bravado and devoid of common sense so they tend to pull away or struggle when they're being arrested.

Now I'm not saying this is definitely what happened in your case because I was not there but in 99.99999% of public order incidents this is exactly how it plays out.

Barely There · 20-11-2014 9:05pm

Murphy7777 wrote: »

I deserved to be thrown on the ground, handcuffed, pushed around and thrown into a tiny cold cell for about 4 hours for making a smart comment, and they justify it because I was after a bit of drink….Hope this happens to you someday and see how much you fell you "deserve" it

Strangely enough it's never happened to me and I doubt it ever will.

Funny that.

TheNog · 20-11-2014 9:09pm

Murphy7777 wrote: »

"because 99.9% of the time they are." There we go again, exactly the point I am making, excellent stuff! There was nothing in the situation, the guards were telling us to move away from somewhere after a night out, I gave a smart comment and that was that, threw me on the ground arrested me and I spent the night in the cell for being "drunk and disorderly" guard was in a bad mood so decided to take it out on me and of course the person who is after a bit of drink is definitely wrong…not the D******d of a guard who was just in a bad mood, argue this all you like, this is exactly what happened.

Whatever way you want to put it but you have to realise even now that bad moods and immaturity do not mix well.

Murphy7777 · 20-11-2014 9:19pm

TheNog wrote: »

Whatever way you want to put it but you have to realise even now that bad moods and immaturity do not mix well.

I know they do not mix well…..does not mean you have to arrest someone because you are in a bad mood!

Murphy7777 · 20-11-2014 9:24pm

source wrote: »

So what you're saying is you were doing something that caused the member to invoke section 8 of the public order act, and then refused to leave. You then made a "smart remark"(you still haven't enlightened us to what you said), and were arrested probably for a mixture of failing to comply with the direction and the "smart comment" which I'd bet was a breach of section 6 POA.

So you were committing the original public order offence which drew the members attention to you (generally 4, 5 or 6 POA) then breached another two sections of the act before he arrested you.

From experience people who are intoxicated, unless they're comatose, are full of bravado and devoid of common sense so they tend to pull away or struggle when they're being arrested.

Now I'm not saying this is definitely what happened in your case because I was not there but in 99.99999% of public order incidents this is exactly how it plays out.

"but in 99.99999% of public order incidents this is exactly how it plays out."

again with the 99.99% can I please ask where ye are getting these made up figures?

unichall · 20-11-2014 9:28pm

Back on topic

Just seen this video now, I'm living away so playing catch up all the time.

At first glance it looks harsh and heavy handed but to be fair she put herself in a position that was inviting this sort of reaction especially given the situation with Joan Burtons car only days earlier.

It is clear to see a very big Garda force holding back a large number of people. Their main job was to make sure Kenny's car was not stopped to allow it to be surrounded. While Joan Burtons incident ended without any real damage to her or the car it was a hairy situation which could have escalated quickly and it could not be let happen again with Kenny.

Once the women stepped onto the road there was a very real danger she could slow down or stop the car, intentionally or not, the gardai in that case just acted as quick as they could to stop this from happening hence the number of guards who grabbed a hold of her. To top it off it didnt look like she was willfully complying with the gardai and moving off the road when asked/ moved

source · 20-11-2014 10:42pm

Murphy7777 wrote: »

"but in 99.99999% of public order incidents this is exactly how it plays out."

again with the 99.99% can I please ask where ye are getting these made up figures?

As I said in my post, from experience.

AlekSmart · 20-11-2014 11:43pm

Murphy7777 wrote: »

I deserved to be thrown on the ground, handcuffed, pushed around and thrown into a tiny cold cell for about 4 hours for making a smart comment, and they justify it because I was after a bit of drink….Hope this happens to you someday and see how much you fell you "deserve" it

Out of interest,have you repeated this experience since ?

Perhaps you could elaborate a little on the incident itself,ie: did the Gardai concerned just happen upon you in your cups,or were they called to the location?

Sh1tbag OToole · 21-11-2014 12:01am

SeaDaily wrote: »

If you're trying to be the voice of reason aren't doing a great job. To be honest I think the gardai did quite well. Their No.1 job today would have been to protect Enda Kenny, who is, whether you like it or not, the leader of our country. If, in order to ensure that our Taoiseach's car can safely leave the mansion house, a protester is thrown aside, so be it.

Obviously it's a bit of an extreme comparison but imagine someone stepped in front of president Obama's car as he was leaving the white house. There would swiftly be a bullet in that person's head. A bit less extreme of a comparison; imagine someone stepped in front of Cameron's car as it left No.10. There would be some fairly serious force employed in ejecting that person from the situation. As I said before though these are relatively extreme examples because our Taoiseach is obviously not nearly as important as the US president or the UK prime minister. However my point still stands, in this situation the safety of the leader of our country is of course of the utmost importance and the gardai would have been informed of this. They would more than likely have been briefed to keep any protesters as far away as possible from Kenny's car and if, in order to follow these instructions they had to throw a protester who attempted to obstruct his car to the kerb, so be it.

I assume you will respond to this by saying that even if they were told to keep people away from the car, excessive force was used by the gardai in question. However, I would once again urge you to consider how the respective police forces of country's around the world would react if someone were to jump in front of the car which carried the leader of that country. In my opinion it is entirely reasonable to remove the person through force if necessary. Frankly I think that even allowing protesters that close to our Taoiseach's car is a bit much and shows a fairly lax attitude of behalf of the gardai. It only takes one nutjob to get close to a person in power like Kenny and throw a couple of punches to cause some fairly serious damage. And this all coming very soon after Burton had been hit in the head with a water balloon, I think the reaction of the gardai in this situation is entirely justified.

Blah blah blah our precious Taoiseach blah...

bravestar · 21-11-2014 12:15am

source wrote: »

As I said in my post, from experience.

I'll back up your experience with my own.

reganreggie · 21-11-2014 1:29am

From a pr point of view these videos along with the water meter installation and the shell to sea videos are definitely affecting the way the public view the garda. Theres huge pressure being put on the force from both the public and the government but if the garda lose the respect of the people policing in this country will be very very difficult

wexie · 21-11-2014 1:37am

reganreggie wrote: »

t but if the garda lose the respect of the people policing in this country will be very very difficult

did/do they have it to lose though? As a previous poster quite clearly illustrated there seems to be very little respect for the gards here. Certainly compared to other European countries (not to mention the US or places like South Africa) where officers are addressed with 'sir' or the local equivalent.

With the treatment they get from a lot of the (drunken) public I certainly can understand some of the frustrations. Combine that with the (seeming) lack of support from the judicial system and politics.

It's a thankless job and should deserve some respect. With the stress, hours, pay etc. etc. etc. it seems to be more of a calling than a job.

J Mysterio · 21-11-2014 2:10am

wexie wrote: »

Certainly compared to other European countries (not to mention the US or places like South Africa) where officers are addressed with 'sir' or the local equivalent

Disagree.

wexie wrote: »

It seems to be more of a calling than a job.

Agree.

no money honey · 21-11-2014 1:22pm

reganreggie wrote: »

From a pr point of view these videos along with the water meter installation and the shell to sea videos are definitely affecting the way the public view the garda. Theres huge pressure being put on the force from both the public and the government but if the garda lose the respect of the people policing in this country will be very very difficult

Their respect has long gone thats why its so hard for them now. Look at the comments of certain guards in this thread, mostly pig headed ignorance which is regular for the force. Why would anyone respect the antics of the governments private security firm which has shown to be corrupt and incompetent at the highest levels.

By the same token its a shame for the many good guards out there that videos and other stuff like this are a regular occurrence. The actions of the higher ups in the Gardai have really made life difficult for the regular ones on the beat. In the current climate I'm not sure why anybody would become a guard. I'm sure the majority of them would agree with me on that. Watching cop shows on TV make it look fun but the reality in this country is very different.

daUbiq · 21-11-2014 5:45pm

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Blah blah blah our precious Taoiseach blah...

I was wondering when someone would pick up on that... He's a school teacher out of his depth.

neckedit · 21-11-2014 7:33pm

wexie wrote:

It's a thankless job and should deserve some respect. With the stress, hours, pay etc. etc. etc. it seems to be more of a calling than a job.

Respect is earned and not deserved.

mcgarrett · 22-11-2014 2:41pm

neckedit wrote: »

Respect is earned and not deserved.

The majority I've worked with over the years have earned it but they certainly don't expect it and I've never heard them say they deserve it.

neckedit · 22-11-2014 4:21pm

mcgarrett wrote:

The majority I've worked with over the years have earned it but they certainly don't expect it and I've never heard them say they deserve it.

Thats my point........The post I quoted was saying, The way I read it.....you pull on a uniform people should respect you.......my point being people should respect people regardless of Career or Social stature.

no money honey · 22-11-2014 9:26pm

You cant even criticise the Guards in correct manner on here without getting banned or infracted. This forum is a piss take, just a back slapping club.

Little CuChulainn · 22-11-2014 9:31pm

no money honey wrote: »

You cant even criticise the Guards in correct manner on here without getting banned or infracted. This forum is a piss take, just a back slapping club.

Editing your post does not make it so you never did it.

23-11-2014 3:03am

I'm going to throw on a conspiracy theory tin hat for a bit, so hear me out.

Here's a question: why is it the Irish supposedly took things lying down over the past few years while other countries kicked up?

Could it be their respect for the rule of law?

OK, you're a hard left activist, and you're annoyed that the sheeple in your country are bending over and taking it from the man without doing anything. You wonder why. You come up with their respect for law.

You then see that, in other countries, their cops are using disproportionate force against protesters, which in turn turns public opinion against them.

So, when you decide to up your protest, you do what you can to provoke a reaction. It only takes one.

It has only taken one.

Forget the shoulds woulds coulds. They are out to make the guards look like the ones in Ferguson.

We must not let them.

I think it's nuts that people expect the rules to change in protests, to talk wishy-washy about "the peepil" vs "deh gubberment b*satrds*. If the hard left get any concessions in use of force at protests, you can be damn sure the fleg bais will be using exactly the same arguments when they wave their Union Jacks down O'Connell St for Love Ulster II "Paysful prowtest hay!"

Just to say I don't go for conspiracy theories, but just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Guards don't do excessive violence. I ask you guards to prove it. Give them nothing to beat you with.

KERSPLAT! · 23-11-2014 3:13am

What exactly is your theory? People are purposely pushing Garda to get a reaction to drive protests?

There may be a small group who'd want that but I think for the most part the protesters are peaceful and have just had enough of taxes at this stage. AGS are protecting the people they are protesting against so AGS end up in the middle of a sandwich. Its a very difficult situation and I don't envy it one bit

23-11-2014 3:39am

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

What exactly is your theory? People are purposely pushing Garda to get a reaction to drive protests?

There may be a small group who'd want that but I think for the most part the protesters are peaceful and have just had enough of taxes at this stage. AGS are protecting the people they are protesting against so AGS end up in the middle of a sandwich. Its a very difficult situation and I don't envy it one bit

Yeah, you summed it up pretty much, and I agree it might be as small as a handful of people who'd want to do it, and with your assessment of the protests TBH. Like I said, it takes only one incident captured on camera, and anyone who'd benefit from being able to take more "direct action" can point to that one incident and say "SEE!? WHY SHOULD I RESPECT THEIR LAW WHEN THEY DON'T!?"

It's like a chain holding weight. If one tiny part of the chain cracks, the whole thing is useless.

Still though, if protest rules of engagement end up changing, would it not be a risk that the bais up North could take advantage?

Turner · 23-11-2014 12:55pm

no money honey banned for 1 week, for personal abuse, general slagging of the forum, discussing mod actions on thread and also personal abuse via pm.

AlekSmart · 23-11-2014 1:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, you summed it up pretty much, and I agree it might be as small as a handful of people who'd want to do it, and with your assessment of the protests TBH. Like I said, it takes only one incident captured on camera, and anyone who'd benefit from being able to take more "direct action" can point to that one incident and say "SEE!? WHY SHOULD I RESPECT THEIR LAW WHEN THEY DON'T!?"

It's like a chain holding weight. If one tiny part of the chain cracks, the whole thing is useless.

Still though, if protest rules of engagement end up changing, would it not be a risk that the bais up North could take advantage?

I'm with SeaSlacker on the conspiracy angle,but what I notice this time is just how large a role Social Media is playing in this particular issue.

The Anti-IW campaign is,to me,the first major National campaign where ALL of the immediacy of Social Media has been harnessed and used to great effect on the agencies of State,particularly the Gardai.

This particular element is most likely covered in various volumes and boxed-sets of "Anarchy for Dummies" et al,but it is proving somewhat problematical as the State's responses are a decade behind and as amaturish as hell.

Most folks ability to reasonably digest and consider things have been whittled down by the "New" media era,we no longer read articles from a variety of sources and cross-reference them to get an accurate view of events.

Instead,we go straight to the sites/pages which more accurately reflect our gut feelings,and in doing so,have those feelings reinforced by the jig-time.

Ignorance of broader events can,in some cases,be a very secure comfort zone,and nowhere more than when dealing with impositions,such as charges and taxes.....taken on a wee bit,it can then be used to foster acceptance of stuff such as "Freeman" belief's which,although lofty sounding and generally well meaning,have precious little grounding in modern day societal reality....however it sure looks good on U-Tube.

Right now,I believe the IW battle will eventually be settled over Christmas,when the "Diaspora" return en-masse and start talking face to face with the natives on the reality of Life on Earth....as opposed to Planet Éire

Lads. W.T.F?

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