Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

Czarcasm wrote: »

Lyra I've already pointed out just one poster, well, another who I initially took issue with when they too assumed they knew all about suicide, mental illness depression, when all either poster and others have, is a bare minimum grasp understanding of their own mental illness.

Fcuk me even the normally rational Odysseus surprised me by linking posters to the DSM and telling them if they identify with any of the symptoms they may just be suffering from a mental illness. And nobody pulled up a mental health professional for possibly fostering hypochondria in an unknown audience. Odysseus themselves should have known better that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, a lot of it, can be fatal. Odysseus has years of education and experience in the field of mental health, yet expects people to be able to interpret the DSM from a quick five minute google search.

All too busy ripping apart a 16 year old's opinion that was aimed at young people, not once in the independent article was the word depression mentioned, and when he said "sleep on it", he meant for young people with suicidal thoughts to hold off on the knee jerk reaction to commit suicide when they're going through a rough patch, as distinct from going through depression.

Despair, is not depression, but posters here who have acknowledged that they suffer from depression, chose to interpret his words to suit their frame of mind. It's an interesting conundrum for anyone who says that the perception of a mentally ill person is their reality. It may be semantic to some, but for others it's a damn important distinction to make, that a mentally ill person's reality is colored by their perception.

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

Why?

Because perception and reality are 2 very different things, That's basic cognitive psychology

Czarcasm wrote: »

it only reinforces the negative perception of those suffering from a mental illness.

This is exactly what this thread has done!!

Czarcasm wrote: »

This is why-





I never said anyone couldn't interpret his opinion any way they wanted. Of course they can. But condescension and and a dismissive attitude doesn't foster discussion, it only reinforces the negative perception of those suffering from a mental illness. That's why I said I haven't learned anything from 30 pages of back and forth bitching and people waving their e-penis' about like it's a competition to see who can pìss higher up the wall.

Then why have you repeatedly argued with people who have interpreted his opinion as judgmental and insensitive? Yet you say people are entitled to their opinion, why can't you accept that some people don't view his campaign as something positive.

Just because someone doesn't agree with someone else's opinion doesn't mean they're being dismissive. The boy's heart is in the right place but the campaign was poorly conceived.

But condescension and and a dismissive attitude doesn't foster discussion, it only reinforces the negative perception of those suffering from a mental illness

Also I find this slightly insulting. You appear to be insinuating that everyone who have posted in disagreement of the boy's opinion has a mental illness or are speaking on behalf of the mentally ill and because of our "attitude" are aiding in cementing people's negative views of the mentally unwell.

Trivial but relevant- I was informed last week of a girl who rang Childline because her father wouldn't give her money to buy phone credit unless she did the dishes! Anecdotal I grant you, but just one example of a teenager in "financial despair". I'm sure you wouldn't have to think too hard to remember a teenager that despaired their financial status, the "I'm soooo broke, FML" mentality.

I don't get the point you're making with this. He refers to financial despair as something which might drive someone to suicide. Even if he is talking about teenagers I think it would take a little bit more than a lack of phone credit!

One damn line in the article, which is not a quote attributed to the teenager, but rather an editorial comment that shouldn't have been let go, because the teenagers campaign as was stated many times in the article, is about suicide, not depression.

Suicide and depression, more generally mental illness, go hand in hand. It's pointless to try to separate the two. Therefore his campaign will focus on both.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Odysseus I'm only saying it was a bad call given that you don't have any background information on the poster in order to form a clearer picture of their mental state to decide whether you could be responsible for giving them information on anything. It'd be the very same if someone walked into your clinic- you wouldn't just hand them out the information without a clearer understanding of why they sought it.

I know you said not to self diagnose, but you might as well have said "don't try this at home". It's not only tom is reading your posts btw. It's one of the long standing issues I've had with the PI and RI forums, giving out advice without being privy to the fuller picture, because you're only getting what the OP thinks is relevant, but that's a discussion to be had elsewhere.

He didn't offer the poster advice he simply provided him with some information that the poster requested. Also it would have only taken a quick google search for the poster to find the information for himself. There's not point hiding information from people, in anything, it's important to educate people about mental illnesses so they can seek help if they think they might be unwell or so they can recognise if someone they know is unwell.

pone2012 wrote: »

It is relevant due to the way that young mans words are being perceived by many, in particular the mentally ill of this forum who have voiced the opinion that he is insensitive and idiotic in his words.

Let me ask you this. You have stated that the mentally ill people will not take this the way it was intended. So is he wrong for saying it? Or is their perception of what he said wrong?

First, thank you for categorizing us all into one group, FYI we're not all mentally unwell. Second, he was insensitive but no one said he was an idiot; you are clearly putting words in our mouths.

Finally, I really don't get why you keep bringing up perception. Many posters who are not mentally ill believe him to be insensitive and uninformed so, in that sense, there are not wrong in their perception. Even if their perception was "wrong" or influenced by their mental state it does not take away from the fact that for some his message would be seen as hurtful.

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

You have this obsession with perception - how do you not get that EVERYTHING is about perception? That's why people who speak in public need to be careful about how it will come across.

Imagine you buy some nice shoes, and I say "oh, nice shoes". I genuinely like your shoes and was intending to give you a compliment, but you took it as a sarcastic comment as you thought my intonation was a bit flat and now you hate me and think I'm a nasty cow. Who is 'right'? Who is 'wrong'?

This is what many posters have been saying all along. His heart might be in the right place and he might have the best of intentions but his opinion and beliefs, based on a bad choice of words, could be perceived as judgy, shaming, hurtful and insensitive by some people battling depression or contemplating suicide.

Czarcasm wrote: »

No they don't, and that's the whole point of where I'm coming from. A person who commits suicide or has even thought about committing suicide, does not necessarily have to be suffering from any form of mental illness or depression. The two shouldn't be perceived to go hand in hand. There are many people who suffer from mental illness and depression who do not have suicidal ideation. That's the black and white popular misconception, and it was another poster who was admonished for their black and white view and told the issues were far more complex than that. At least I understand that much already.

But they should. Being depressed or more generally speaking having a mental illness is one of the most common causes of suicide. In the case of depression it doesn't have to be a long term mental illness but a major life event (such as the death of a love one/redundancy/financial difficulties etc) could have brought on the depression. Also I never implied that all depressed people suffer from suicidal ideation but it is a symptom of many mental illnesses.

I haven't watched the interview yet, so I don't know did the teenager himself make a correlation between both mental illness and suicide, but from the article it was clear that only the journalist or the editor included that assumption, in one line, in an article that made numerous references only to suicide amongst young people in despair.

From wikipedia (not the most credible source I know but still) "Suicide is often committed out of despair, the cause of which is frequently attributed to a mental disorder such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, alcoholism, or drug abuse or major life events". Is it not plausible that the boy intends to target all people contemplating suicide with his campaign?

Well I have been following this discussion since it started and there has been some very interesting posts that I could say show similar experiences and examples as to my own. I do take exception to the young man’s opinions only because it has been broadcasted nationally in which I find to be in bad taste.


I myself have been trying to deal with depression for the past 17yrs (still only 29).Depression hit me at an early staged in life, early enough that I couldn’t put a word to what I was feeling or explain why. The first time I really could comprehend what suicide really meant I thought it was a logical solution to how I felt. The idea appealed to me in some strange way I can’t really say why but it did it just somehow made sense. I have spent the past 17yrs thinking on a daily basis about suicide yet have not attempted to kill myself. I can only speculate as to why I haven’t tried it and I put it down to my own personal circumstances. At the heights of my depression I can simple say that I wasn’t confronted and backed into a corner. Which ironically was due to family not understanding what was going on. Apparently I was just being lazy staying in bed and never going out for nearly 3yrs. I don’t blame them but I do wonder why no doctor was ever called in I can only guess that having no understanding of the situation or what to do left them confused or shamed in some way. By the time I understood what was happening myself depression what so rooted in me it controlled my decision making, forming bad habits and shutting down connections to people.


I should make this clear before I go into this topic any further in detail that this young man is facing some tough times and cooping better than most would in a similar situation. I think his actions of raising money for charities is very noble and he deserves respect for spending what time he has left in this selfless way. I believe that what he says he believes in but I do not see anything that suggest he has fully grasps what depression is more specifically chronic depression. I have no issue with the boy but feel those who should know better should at least have tried to explain it to him. I know when I was that age my views where very radical black and white full of passion and believe but little real understanding.

The main issues I take with his comments may be because of my own experiences and how such a lack of understanding (mine as well) has led to depression being such a dominant problem in my life. I didn’t say I was depressed to anyone until I was around 21 to which the response was disbelieve I didn’t know and left my father in shock. It was a very strange situation I was sort of crawling out of my depression at the time haven been bed ridden for nearly 3yrs (Still had my 3yrs hair growth and facial fluff) .I remember straight away realising he doesn’t get it or just doesn’t understand what to do. What did happen was the next day it’s as if I didn’t say anything and his lazy son just isn’t so lazy anymore.


Up until I first admitted it I was always so sure that it would just be dismissed as some other small irrelevant issue "cop on with yourself”, “just choose to stop it" or my personal favourite "depression doesn’t exists". On the outside I looked normal no broken bones no cuts bruises so what’s the problem I have no right to complain? I don’t think I spoke another word until a couple of years later when I secretly sought help from the local GP he prescribed some pills and suggested some therapy I quickly made excuses and didn’t return for another 2 years during another low point. I went to a few therapy sessions in which I simply sat and talked about myself mainly for the whole hour while the councillor listened and asked me some questions along the way. I have never spoken so much about myself ever for so long it was a massive relive for a few months. I quickly made excuses and didn’t return to finish all my sessions or continue my meds (pattern here) as I fell deeper into my depression one week.


So what’s my point well sort of forgot what I was going to say along the way lol

Maybe it was something like this…
Those who don’t even understand the very basic concepts of what depression is should at least try too for your own sake and for your loved ones you never know they could be suffering in silence .Tragedy can strike anyone at any time throughout their lives and leave a wake of despair behind. Some people can cope better than others but not all of us can cope the same.