Dublin Bus Mythbuster

punisher5112 · 07-11-2014 12:45am

How many single deckers they have left?

Whats that of 20 new singles?

Where would they go.

dublinman1990 · 07-11-2014 12:45am

s8080 wrote: »

Dublin Bus are permitted to apply to the NTA to operate additional services - there is nothing to stop them doing that, other than a lack of available buses and drivers.

Dublin bus cannot put on extra buses, NTA must approve , facts are they don’t approve.

That is not true in some cases. The NTA have approved changes to both the 44 and 142 routes for Dublin Bus recently.

The only thing is that the extension for the 44 to DCU is only from Monday to Friday's only. The terminus at Larkhill is only used on Saturday's and Sundays only.

The workload on the 142 is shared between Harristown for the peak journeys between UCD & Portmarnock.

Donnybrook has the Euro duty off-peak journeys every day that the 142 runs between UCD & Portobello Road.

Dublin Bus also have to apply for terminus changes to the NTA when Luas Cross City works are taking place in areas where it's remedial & construction work are in the most affected areas of Dublin City Centre.

LXFlyer · 07-11-2014 8:58am

punisher5112 wrote: »

How many single deckers they have left?

Whats that of 20 new singles?

Where would they go.

3 WVs in Donnybrook.

LXFlyer · 07-11-2014 9:03am

s8080 wrote: »

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
so you cant refute anything i post, and this is what you have been reduced to.

this mess is a dublin bus bean counter original, the hand of the NTA is not involved.

ask any driver in the morning and they will tell you what i state is true.
you never know it might be me who you ask.

post what you believe to be true about big bad dublin bus, and watch me tell you the truth, it will be some what different to what you think you know.

Well if you can show me hard evidence to back up your claims that the NTA dictated that summer schedules come in (rather than it being a cost cutting measure by Dublin Bus and one that better meets driver availablity) and that the NTA are dictating that staff affected cannot be redeployed on other buses to cover driver leave then perhaps I might believe you.

But so far all you have posted is conjecture which other drivers (who have been posting here for far longer than you) are denying.

I don't have an issue with Dublin Bus per se (in fact my record here has been to often defend them when people make unfair accusations), it's just the slant that you're trying to put on things which frankly is somewhat wide of the mark.

So you'll forgive me if I'm somewhat sceptical of new accounts that suddenly decide to debunk various "myths".

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 07-11-2014 9:05am

Stevek101 wrote: »

Seems to be some issues in Dublin Bus today.

https://twitter.com/dublinbusnews/status/530268587282694144

Was there an unofficial dispute?

Was an hour and a half late for work because of these unforseen difficulties. Their much praised rti showed three buses which just didn't shown up. The next 3 were then packed and didn't stop. My stop is 8th on the route. Not the first time the bus has caused me to be late either.

From next week on I'm driving into work. It's just not worth the saving to get the bus. It's miserable, it's late more often than its on time and there are constant issues with drug addicts. I appreciate the last one isn't the bus companies fault.

MOH · 07-11-2014 11:16am

s8080 wrote: »

post what you believe to be true about big bad dublin bus, and watch me tell you the truth, it will be some what different to what you think you know.

What about the buses that go past "full" that appear to have seats free upstairs (though I accept that's sometimes difficult to tell from the ground) and clearly have no more than 3 people standing downstairs?

Why are many drivers incapable of setting their ticket machine correctly? It's a regular occurrence (at least once a week) that the machine is set at the wrong stage. And when it happens, the vast majority of the time it's set to a previous stage, making it appear I've underpaid my fare. If there's a driver change in the city centre, the new drivers sets the machine correctly, and then an inspector gets on, how am I supposed to prove my case?

Baron Kurtz · 07-11-2014 11:42am

I don't quite understand why a bus user says the amount of the fare, especially when the driver doesn't bother to look at what a passenger has dispensed in the slot.

Just now I uttered the amount (of euro) required for my journey. "2.35 please" [dispensing 2.50]! The ticket is printed. Big pause. The driver expects me to go on my way. "Can I get my change please? ". "How much you put in?". Grumble grumble grumble in printing change.

This has happened a few times, once with a driver feeling embarrassed/slighted and tried to say "You're meant to say how much you're putting in". Eh, no you're not. Unless things had changed that day. In his head maybe.

So, it's DBs system. Why can't they utilise it correctly? And then they try to make out as if the passenger is the inconvenience. I'm surprised how many dummies take to a DB wheel on a daily basis. I only ever get the thing when I really have to.

Tickityboo · 07-11-2014 12:19pm

MOH wrote: »

Why are many drivers incapable of setting their ticket machine correctly? It's a regular occurrence (at least once a week) that the machine is set at the wrong stage. And when it happens, the vast majority of the time it's set to a previous stage, making it appear I've underpaid my fare. If there's a driver change in the city centre, the new drivers sets the machine correctly, and then an inspector gets on, how am I supposed to prove my case?

It's the passengers responsability to have a valid ticket.
Check your ticket when you get it and if it's wrong ask for a new one.

s8080 · 07-11-2014 12:51pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Well if you can show me hard evidence to back up your claims that the NTA dictated that summer schedules come in (rather than it being a cost cutting measure by Dublin Bus and one that better meets driver availablity) and that the NTA are dictating that staff affected cannot be redeployed on other buses to cover driver leave then perhaps I might believe you.

But so far all you have posted is conjecture which other drivers (who have been posting here for far longer than you) are denying.

I don't have an issue with Dublin Bus per se (in fact my record here has been to often defend them when people make unfair accusations), it's just the slant that you're trying to put on things which frankly is somewhat wide of the mark.

So you'll forgive me if I'm somewhat sceptical of new accounts that suddenly decide to debunk various "myths".

if you don’t want to believe me don’t.
the fact is the workings of dublin bus are your hobby, you are probably one of these guys we see at the side of the street taking photos of buses and copying down the licence plate number in a note book. if this is what makes you happy i wish you all the best.

you come on here and share your knowledge of dublin bus, most of this knowledge is easily obtained on the dublin bus web site, i.e. time tables and which bus goes where.

then you have me and other drivers who have posted here, giving you info that no member of the public would ever know unless we told you.
when you don’t agree with what we state you dismiss it, i have zero reason to lie, the more the public know about how dublin bus really works the easier my job gets.
example, monday morning a regular gets on my bus at terminus starts complain to me about the fare increases , i explain it was not dublin bus who sets the fares but the NTA. next morning man gets on the bus “ i checked what you said, its true, i did not know that”. he then curses the NTA and does not have a go at me..

well here is a little bit of info that you would not know.
new timetables and some route changes are coming for routes 11,14,45a,145.

s8080 · 07-11-2014 12:53pm

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Was an hour and a half late for work because of these unforseen difficulties. Their much praised rti showed three buses which just didn't shown up. The next 3 were then packed and didn't stop. My stop is 8th on the route. Not the first time the bus has caused me to be late either.

From next week on I'm driving into work. It's just not worth the saving to get the bus. It's miserable, it's late more often than its on time and there are constant issues with drug addicts. I appreciate the last one isn't the bus companies fault.

the number of maintenance men who work at night has been cut, those who remain cannot clean, refuel and swap safe on all the buses in time before the buses go back into service in the morning.
so in the morning drivers are reporting to work on time but there is no bus ready for them to take.
simple really , not some driver conspiracy some would have you believe.

s8080 · 07-11-2014 12:54pm

MOH wrote: »

What about the buses that go past "full" that appear to have seats free upstairs (though I accept that's sometimes difficult to tell from the ground) and clearly have no more than 3 people standing downstairs?

Why are many drivers incapable of setting their ticket machine correctly? It's a regular occurrence (at least once a week) that the machine is set at the wrong stage. And when it happens, the vast majority of the time it's set to a previous stage, making it appear I've underpaid my fare. If there's a driver change in the city centre, the new drivers sets the machine correctly, and then an inspector gets on, how am I supposed to prove my case?

full buses with seats upstairs is another simple one to explain, no driver conspiracy at work here.

on some buses the little tv above drivers head that shows upstairs is not working, or the camera inside has shifted position and does not give a good view of up stairs.

the main reason a driver wont tells passengers to go upstairs, plenty of seats, make room for more passengers, is there is a strong chance of a complaint being put in against driver, then you have to see the boss, reprimanded and everything that goes along with that.

dear dublin bus,
this morning i, along with 6 other members of the Dublin Hemaroid/Angina/Arthritis/Back Pain/Blood Pressure(take your pick) support group where heading into town for our weekly coffee morning.
As it was rush hour the bus was very busy, we where standing down stairs, the driver repeatedly requested that passengers move upstairs. As this was not physically possible for our group we remained standing down stairs.
The driver repeated his request for passengers to move upstairs, while he did not address us individually or as a group we felt like we where being picked on and bullied.
It was very distressing for all of us, we where quite shaken , felt everyone on the bus was staring at us and passing judgement.
It is obvious that the driver of the bus should be not be in a job where he has to deal with the public, we the Dublin Hemaroid/Angina/Arthritis/Back Pain/Blood Pressure group demand that you fire this driver with immediate effect.

Offended
Dublin Hemaroid/Angina/Arthritis/Back Pain/Blood Pressure

Who needs this type of problem?
so the driver keeps to themselves and just drives the bus and does not get involved when passengers don’t go upstairs.

Your wrong ticket problem, very simple when you get a ticket have a look at it, if its wrong tell the driver and they will give you the correct one.Drivers don’t bite. Don’t come on here complaining hours after the event, it can be resolved there and then when it happens.

Mr_Red · 07-11-2014 12:57pm

DB , BE and IR should all be privatized

Unions run these services

s8080 · 07-11-2014 1:20pm

Mr_Red wrote: »

Unions run these services

could you give a example of how the unions run dublin bus?
myth will be busted without effort

Mr_Red · 07-11-2014 1:30pm

s8080 wrote: »

could you give a example of how the unions run dublin bus?
myth will be busted without effort

I would think its quite clear

Any changes that DB want to implement, the Unions Block and Strike

It needs to be privatized with a Ryanair approach. No Bullsh1t

The Company you work for makes a loss every single year

The Company wants to change that without increasing the charge to the customer.

But they are blocked at every corner by your unions.

Unions answer to this is increase charges every year so they get what they want

The sooner it is privatized the better

mickydoomsux · 07-11-2014 1:47pm

Mr_Red wrote: »

I would think its quite clear

Any changes that DB want to implement, the Unions Block and Strike

It needs to be privatized with a Ryanair approach. No Bullsh1t

The Company you work for makes a loss every single year

The Company wants to change that without increasing the charge to the customer.

But they are blocked at every corner by your unions.

Unions answer to this is increase charges every year so they get what they want

The sooner it is privatized the better

So you have no actual proof beyond the usual nonsense spouted on here?

n97 mini · 07-11-2014 1:54pm

s8080 wrote: »

so the driver keeps to themselves and just drives the bus and does not get involved when passengers don’t go upstairs.

Sounds like the drivers and management need to grow balls and stand up to these people.

Mr_Red · 07-11-2014 2:11pm

mickydoomsux wrote: »

So you have no actual proof beyond the usual nonsense spouted on here?

Not here

Its quite well publicized in the Media every single year.

As I said . people are paying twice for DB

1 via charged for tickets.

2. From the Exchequer

As I said. Privatize the Service with a Ryanair approach.

MOH · 07-11-2014 2:17pm

s8080 wrote: »

full buses with seats upstairs is another simple one to explain, no driver conspiracy at work here.

on some buses the little tv above drivers head that shows upstairs is not working, or the camera inside has shifted position and does not give a good view of up stairs.

the main reason a driver wont tells passengers to go upstairs, plenty of seats, make room for more passengers, is there is a strong chance of a complaint being put in against driver, then you have to see the boss, reprimanded and everything that goes along with that.

dear dublin bus,
this morning i, along with 6 other members of the Dublin Hemaroid/Angina/Arthritis/Back Pain/Blood Pressure(take your pick) support group where heading into town for our weekly coffee morning.
As it was rush hour the bus was very busy, we where standing down stairs, the driver repeatedly requested that passengers move upstairs. As this was not physically possible for our group we remained standing down stairs.
The driver repeated his request for passengers to move upstairs, while he did not address us individually or as a group we felt like we where being picked on and bullied.
It was very distressing for all of us, we where quite shaken , felt everyone on the bus was staring at us and passing judgement.
It is obvious that the driver of the bus should be not be in a job where he has to deal with the public, we the Dublin Hemaroid/Angina/Arthritis/Back Pain/Blood Pressure group demand that you fire this driver with immediate effect.

Offended
Dublin Hemaroid/Angina/Arthritis/Back Pain/Blood Pressure

Who needs this type of problem?
so the driver keeps to themselves and just drives the bus and does not get involved when passengers don’t go upstairs.

I seem to remember a poster recently decrying sarcasm as the lowest form of wit. Who was that?

And I already acknowledged that upstairs is a separate issue, my problem is buses with only a couple of people standing downstairs which clearly aren't full which still don't stop.

s8080 wrote: »

Your wrong ticket problem, very simple when you get a ticket have a look at it, if its wrong tell the driver and they will give you the correct one.Drivers don’t bite. Don’t come on here complaining hours after the event, it can be resolved there and then when it happens.

Right. Tried that, but my leap card looks exactly the same whether I've been correctly charged or not. I'm not even going to know unless I make a point of waiting and checking the display. When it's working. And me complaining doesn't help all the previous passengers who've been given the wrong ticket.
Again, you've completely avoided the question of why it happens so often. Is there some great complication in setting up the ticket machine properly?

s8080 · 07-11-2014 2:35pm

Mr_Red wrote: »

I would think its quite clear

Any changes that DB want to implement, the Unions Block and Strike

It needs to be privatized with a Ryanair approach. No Bullsh1t

The Company you work for makes a loss every single year

The Company wants to change that without increasing the charge to the customer.

But they are blocked at every corner by your unions.

Unions answer to this is increase charges every year so they get what they want

The sooner it is privatized the better

this is the type of post i mentioned in the op. completely clueless.
its just wrong on so many levels.
dublin bus is not making a loss every single year.
NTA set the fares not the unions(wtf)
its the NTA who block the changes long before the unions even know about them.

there is a private operator running a local link service in the dublin area, the licence is for a 7 day service with last bus 2330.
licence be damned, the last bus is 2000, i don’t believe it runs on a weekend.
saved the best till last, this private bus service is part of the Free Travel scheme, yet it still charges free travel pass holders 50c to use the bus.
“he can’t do that it illegal” he can and he does, the powers that be know and told him to stop charging 50c, he replied you are paying pennys if you don’t let me charge 50c to pass holders i will withdraw from the scheme and they can pay full fare.He never heard from the powers that be again.

roll on privatisation, it will be fun here.

s8080 · 07-11-2014 2:38pm

MOH wrote: »

I seem to remember a poster recently decrying sarcasm as the lowest form of wit. Who was that?

And I already acknowledged that upstairs is a separate issue, my problem is buses with only a couple of people standing downstairs which clearly aren't full which still don't stop.

Right. Tried that, but my leap card looks exactly the same whether I've been correctly charged or not. I'm not even going to know unless I make a point of waiting and checking the display. When it's working. And me complaining doesn't help all the previous passengers who've been given the wrong ticket.
Again, you've completely avoided the question of why it happens so often. Is there some great complication in setting up the ticket machine properly?

that was not sarcasm, that is the type of letter that is sent in about drivers. Sad but true.

so waiting and checking the display would solve your problem but you won’t do it?
looks like you are a willing victim

s8080 · 07-11-2014 2:57pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Sounds like the drivers and management need to grow balls and stand up to these people.

dont be blaming drivers, all drivers start the job doing everything correctly, then the complaint letters are sent in and the management will turn around and blame the driver, so the driver say to themselves “i don’t need this, just keep the head down and say nothing”.
this lie low attitude results in no letters of complaint, no visits to see the boss, and a easy life for the driver.
honestly what attitude would you take, be proactive and get complaints or keep the head down and take it easy?

s8080 · 07-11-2014 3:06pm

MOH wrote: »

And I already acknowledged that upstairs is a separate issue, my problem is buses with only a couple of people standing downstairs which clearly aren't full which still don't stop.

this here would be a perfect example of a complaint sent in, bus passed me by at stop and there was only a couple standing down stairs.

you have to realise most complains omit pertinent info.
the person complaing might be in a wheelchair and can see that the bus already has a wheelchair onboard, of course they won’t put that in the complaint.

this is a simple example, to give you a idea what happens

MOH · 07-11-2014 3:14pm

s8080 wrote: »

that was not sarcasm, that is the type of letter that is sent in about drivers. Sad but true.

so waiting and checking the display would solve your problem but you won’t do it?
looks like you are a willing victim

I'm starting to think you're probably just be a troll. I'm finding it difficult to believe that a driver would advise that every Leap passenger who boards any bus should wait and check the display in case the driver was incapable of setting his ticket machine properly? Would the driver then recall all Leap passengers on the bus and issue them the correct ticket? Dwell times would go through the roof.

And as far as mythbusting goes, what I've learned so far from this thread is:
Everything is the NTAs fault
When it's not the NTA, it's DB management
When it's not DB management and appears to be a driver issue, it's actually the passenger's fault, for not take the time to check up on the driver
But nothing, ever, is actually a driver's fault

If anything, it's closer to starting a myth that all drivers are incredible arrogant and can admit no wrong. Which I doubt, since the vast majority of them seem to be quite amiable people doing a good job.

Peppa Pig · 07-11-2014 3:46pm

s8080 wrote: »

you have to realise most complains omit pertinent info.

How do you know? Unless you have investigated many DB complaints yourself, you are guessing.

s8080 wrote: »

the person complaing might be in a wheelchair and can see that the bus already has a wheelchair onboard, of course they won’t put that in the complaint.

They might not be. How do you know that wheelchair users have been denied access to a bus because there already was a wheelchair on it, yet in their complaint they omitted to mention it?
Or are you again guessing?

AlekSmart · 07-11-2014 4:43pm

MOH wrote: »

Right. Tried that, but my leap card looks exactly the same whether I've been correctly charged or not. I'm not even going to know unless I make a point of waiting and checking the display. When it's working. And me complaining doesn't help all the previous passengers who've been given the wrong ticket.
Again, you've completely avoided the question of why it happens so often. Is there some great complication in setting up the ticket machine properly?

In an attempt to address MOH's comment regarding Stage Updating,I'll give my own experiences.

The main reason for it happening so often is startingly simple.

STAGES ARE NOT PHYSICALLY MARKED ONSTREET.

The simple expedient of re-applying the stage marking which were comprehensively removed nearly a decade ago would solve the vast majority of the problem.

Why any Company purporting to utilize a Fare-Stage based system decided to remove the Stage Markings remains a total mystery,but remove them they did,with great dedication and perseverance.

This low-tech regressive act resulted in Customers & Staff alike being pitted against each other in an arcane test of route and stop knowledge that has lasted the decade since.

Why...?.....I have no idea,however it pre-dates the NTA so they can push their chests out and tut-tut to infinity.

Following the Stage Marking removal,it was then down to individual drivers (and customers) dedication and route knowledge as to where individual stages were located.

The simplicity of updating the Stages,is perversely,one of the reasons for it occuring so often...It is,by far,the easiest element of Ticket Machine Operation to forget in the heat of a driving day/night.
Added to this is the fact that the stage number is the same size as the remainder of the numbers which appear on the TIM Screen,which makes it less easy for a driver to spot the error until too late.

Making the Stage Number a larger size and placing it centrally on the TIM screen would have added to its conspicuity,but that never occured either.

All of the above is,of course,easier to deal with when one is paying cash and can check their ticket immediately by reading the printed information (IF you get a wrongly staged ticket,SHOW It to the Driver IMMEDIATELY,as it must be annuled before the following customer is ticketed)

Leapcard's present a slightly different case,as the ONLY method the customer has of checking is the TIM display which is quite momentary,so a sharp lookout is required.

If a Leapcard user does spot a misfare,then the transaction can be annulled within a two-minute window.(Irrespective of folowing transactions).

The good news is that in early 2015,Automatic Stage Updating (via GPS) will be implemented,thus ending over a decade of undesirable uncertainty and avoidable unpleasantness...;)

Meanwhile,it is worthwhile taking the time to check out the Fare Calculator Tab on www.dublinbus.ie, ,currently the ONLY place one can cross reference the Stage Number with the actual Bus-Stop Number (Be warned however,some discrepancies may still be found :eek:)

s8080 · 07-11-2014 8:13pm

MOH wrote: »

I'm starting to think you're probably just be a troll. I'm finding it difficult to believe that a driver would advise that every Leap passenger who boards any bus should wait and check the display in case the driver was incapable of setting his ticket machine properly? Would the driver then recall all Leap passengers on the bus and issue them the correct ticket? Dwell times would go through the roof.

And as far as mythbusting goes, what I've learned so far from this thread is:
Everything is the NTAs fault
When it's not the NTA, it's DB management
When it's not DB management and appears to be a driver issue, it's actually the passenger's fault, for not take the time to check up on the driver
But nothing, ever, is actually a driver's fault

If anything, it's closer to starting a myth that all drivers are incredible arrogant and can admit no wrong. Which I doubt, since the vast majority of them seem to be quite amiable people doing a good job.

I'm starting to think you're probably enjoy being a martyr, you have been told how to avoid being overcharged but cant be bothered.
some people love complaining, woe betide me, why me,
sure posters still come on here to bitch about dublin bus raising fares, when its pointed out to them the NTA set the fares they go quite.
the dart stopped working ,posters bitch about dublin bus not putting on extra buses, when pointed out to them that can’t without the permission of the NTA they go quite

Not once have i claimed drivers are perfect, but when i point out that your anger is directed at the wrong target, posters can’t accept it
Everything posters bitch about here has a explanation, when you are told the truth some can’t accept it and have a hissy fit.
Ask your questions and i will answer them truthfully, press pause on your hatred towards dublin bus and read the answer i give you, then you might be able to accept the answer

s8080 · 07-11-2014 8:15pm

Peppa Pig wrote: »

How do you know? Unless you have investigated many DB complaints yourself, you are guessing.

They might not be. How do you know that wheelchair users have been denied access to a bus because there already was a wheelchair on it, yet in their complaint they omitted to mention it?
Or are you again guessing?

loads of complaints come in to garage, “i was waiting for a bus this morning at 8am, i put my hand out in good time to signal to the driver i wanted to get the bus, the driver did not stop he kept driving by the stop, sack the driver etc,etc ………….

the pertinent info omitted from the complaint …………. the bus was full!

Peppa Pig · 07-11-2014 9:23pm

s8080 wrote: »

loads of complaints come in to garage, “i was waiting for a bus this morning at 8am, i put my hand out in good time to signal to the driver i wanted to get the bus, the driver did not stop he kept driving by the stop, sack the driver etc,etc ………….

the pertinent info omitted from the complaint …………. the bus was full!

Are all drivers shown the fully investigated complaints or just the ones who bus it was?
How do you know that most complaints are missing the pertinent info?
Are there ever any justified complaints?
How do you know the wheelchair complaints mostly refer to a wheelchair already on the bus, as you previously stated?

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 07-11-2014 10:55pm

s8080 wrote: »

the number of maintenance men who work at night has been cut, those who remain cannot clean, refuel and swap safe on all the buses in time before the buses go back into service in the morning.
so in the morning drivers are reporting to work on time but there is no bus ready for them to take.
simple really , not some driver conspiracy some would have you believe.

I'm not saying its a conspiracy or anything, nor am I saying its the driver's fault. What I am saying is I can no longer continue to use a company which has time and again proven itself to be unreliable for me. I will therefore use an alternate means of travel to work which will get me in on time and home faster.

cdebru · 08-11-2014 3:21am

Baron Kurtz wrote: »

I don't quite understand why a bus user says the amount of the fare, especially when the driver doesn't bother to look at what a passenger has dispensed in the slot.

Just now I uttered the amount (of euro) required for my journey. "2.35 please" [dispensing 2.50]! The ticket is printed. Big pause. The driver expects me to go on my way. "Can I get my change please? ". "How much you put in?". Grumble grumble grumble in printing change.

This has happened a few times, once with a driver feeling embarrassed/slighted and tried to say "You're meant to say how much you're putting in". Eh, no you're not. Unless things had changed that day. In his head maybe.

So, it's DBs system. Why can't they utilise it correctly? And then they try to make out as if the passenger is the inconvenience. I'm surprised how many dummies take to a DB wheel on a daily basis. I only ever get the thing when I really have to.

A lot of the cash boxes the money falls straight through, some have no lights so the driver can't see the money, sometimes coins fall behind each other, so all he sees is a 2 euro coin, sometimes people through the money in as the machine is dropping the previous fare so it disappears sometimes the machine gets stuck so fares go on top of each other, so in answer don't be an arse, if you pop in 2.50 for a 2.35 just say it, then the driver knows you want a change ticket and how much you paid.

You see the other problem is a large percentage just Dont want a change ticket, so the driver prints one, the passenger walks off and the next passenger grabs the change ticket instead of their ticket and it all gets confusing.

MOH · 08-11-2014 12:57pm

s8080 wrote: »

I'm starting to think you're probably enjoy being a martyr, you have been told how to avoid being overcharged but cant be bothered.
some people love complaining, woe betide me, why me,
sure posters still come on here to bitch about dublin bus raising fares, when its pointed out to them the NTA set the fares they go quite.
the dart stopped working ,posters bitch about dublin bus not putting on extra buses, when pointed out to them that can’t without the permission of the NTA they go quite

Not once have i claimed drivers are perfect, but when i point out that your anger is directed at the wrong target, posters can’t accept it
Everything posters bitch about here has a explanation, when you are told the truth some can’t accept it and have a hissy fit.
Ask your questions and i will answer them truthfully, press pause on your hatred towards dublin bus and read the answer i give you, then you might be able to accept the answer

Problem is you come on promising to explode myths and answer questions, and you're just avoiding answering questions or making up irrelevant edge cases.

I've often seen buses go past "full" with a couple of people standing downstairs, your response is to go on a rant about letters of complaint when people are asked to move upstairs, and then start talking about people in wheelchairs not being able to see if there's another wheelchair user on the bus. That's got absolutely nothing to do with it. For all I know there may be times when a driver's been directed not to stop - I'm just trying to find out if this is ossibly the case.

Then when I ask why somewhere between 10 and 20% of buses I get have the ticket machine set incorrectly, you start blaming me and calling me a martyr instead of answering the question. You also seem to be missing the point that even if I tell the driver every time it happens, everybody else who's already on the bus has the wrong ticket. Fortunately, other more helpful posters like AlekSmart are able to explain in a straightforward, coherent manner that there are in fact valid reasons why this can happen so often.

I said the vast majority of Dublin Bus drivers seem to be amiable people doing a good job, and you tell me to "press pause on my hatred for Dublin Bus".

I haven't seen you bust a single myth yet. Here, I'll give you one more go, because I genuinely don't know about this one:
If ticket machines are regularly incorrectly set, showing the bus as being at an earlier stage than it actually is, then a passenger boarding and asking for a ticket to a particular destination is going to be overcharged as a result.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 08-11-2014 1:27pm

I'd half to agree with the above. When I mentioned my issue s8080 immediately went on the defensive about the drivers. I didn't once mention the drivers or attempt to blame them in my post.

AlekSmart · 08-11-2014 2:08pm

cdebru wrote: »

A lot of the cash boxes the money falls straight through, some have no lights so the driver can't see the money, sometimes coins fall behind each other, so all he sees is a 2 euro coin, sometimes people through the money in as the machine is dropping the previous fare so it disappears sometimes the machine gets stuck so fares go on top of each other, so in answer don't be an arse, if you pop in 2.50 for a 2.35 just say it, then the driver knows you want a change ticket and how much you paid.

You see the other problem is a large percentage just Dont want a change ticket, so the driver prints one, the passenger walks off and the next passenger grabs the change ticket instead of their ticket and it all gets confusing.

A very valid point here,and one which points to a Flat Fare being the most reasonable approach to ending the absymally long Dwell Times on Dublin Bus Services.

It is now generally accepted (even if off-the-record) that the 2001 Wayfarer TGX150 has reached the limits of it's effectivity for BAC/NTA use.

The architecture of the machine imposes limitations upon what it can physically perform versus the tasks which are now imposed upon it.

The choice is between attempting to Life-Extend the TGX150 by means of Software Updates and Leapcard Tweaks OR to transfer completely to newer "fit for purpose" systems from either Wayfarer or one of the many other suppliers active in the sector.

The abolition of Cash Transactions is now an inevitability IMO,with large numbers of customers dropping in the excess amount and walking away,even in some cases telling a driver to "Keep the change !!".

Many Customers are of the impression that the Drop Safe incorporates a coin counter or that the Driver counts each amount...neither being true.

If I am challenged,I will remind customers that I CAN,if desired,count each amount,but as I would have to do this for every customer the journey time would increase significantly.

IF a Customer is concerned about their change ticket,I would recommend making it obvious to the driver,before or during the drop,that you are overpaying..a millisecond delay as you display the €2.50 or whatever is all it takes to allow a Driver to pre-enter that amount,thus automatically generating a change-ticket.

The Fare-Stage system we continue to operate in Dublin,belongs to an era long gone,a time when Conductors roamed the streets,each with the time and focus to delve individually into each individual customers requirements....that time is no longer available to a Busdriver tasked with operating in a modern urban environment,even more so when it is compromised by large scale disruptions such as LUAS BXD work.

The situation,for example,currently on display in O Connell St,whereby the ONLY DublinBus-Route (16) serving our International Airport is located adjacent to some of the most restrictive parts of the BXD road restrictions,yet it's Drivers are fully expected to peform the duties so rendolent of the 1950's Conductor as if nothing was amiss...FFS..The surrounding streetscape is more akin to the surface of Mars yet nobody even considered it slightly desirable to have a ticket-vending machine/operative at the Stop...just to give the Driver a sporting chance and the Customer an opportunity of a faster and smoother boarding experience....Would it be worthwhile ?....I say YES !...The Authorities (There are MANY of these) all go...."HMMmmmm....we don't really think so....

)

Off topic...?......NO it's not,as it cuts to the chase of what is so urgently required in Dublins Public Transport...FAR LOWER DWELL TIMES (Change required or NOT)

s8080 · 08-11-2014 3:20pm

Peppa Pig wrote: »

How do you know? Unless you have investigated many DB complaints yourself, you are guessing.

They might not be. How do you know that wheelchair users have been denied access to a bus because there already was a wheelchair on it, yet in their complaint they omitted to mention it?
Or are you again guessing?

there are these magical places call canteens, every depot has one and also the mother ship canteen in city centre. it is at these locations that drivers congregate and feast on fine food.
somehow drivers manage in between their lively debates on the merits of picasso’s work pre and post cubism and 17 century french poetry to regale each other with tales of derring-do and high adventure on the tarmac of dublin.
Some of these tales told would be of drivers paying a visit to see the big boss man, where upon entering the office the big boss man would surprise the driver with a letter of complaint sent in by a member of the public.
One common thread that runs through the vast majority of these complaint letters is the facts that the letter writer will chose to omit.

You ask “how do you know most complaints omit pertinent info?”
the answer is drivers talk to each other, and swap war stories.

s8080 · 08-11-2014 3:27pm

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I'd half to agree with the above. When I mentioned my issue s8080 immediately went on the defensive about the drivers. I didn't once mention the drivers or attempt to blame them in my post.

you asked why no bus turned up.
i told you the night shift cannot do the work in the allotted time to ensure all buses are ready for service in the morning. drivers are reporting for work on time, there is no unofficial strike .
These are all facts.
some who post here dont like facts that dont reinforce their anti dublin bus position.
so i dont know what the "defensive about drivers " is all about, care to clarify or are you just happy to throw mud and hope some of it sticks?

Peppa Pig · 08-11-2014 3:38pm

s8080 wrote: »

Some of these tales told would be of drivers paying a visit to see the big boss man, where upon entering the office the big boss man would surprise the driver with a letter of complaint sent in by a member of the public.
One common thread that runs through the vast majority of these complaint letters is the facts that the letter writer will chose to omit..

So purely anectodal evidence from drivers, not as the result of any investigation, cctv examination.

What about the other 3 questions?

Peppa Pig wrote:

Are all drivers shown the fully investigated complaints or just the ones who bus it was?
Are there ever any justified complaints?
How do you know the wheelchair complaints mostly refer to a wheelchair already on the bus, as you previously stated?

s8080 · 08-11-2014 3:39pm

MOH wrote: »

Problem is you come on promising to explode myths and answer questions, and you're just avoiding answering questions or making up irrelevant edge cases.

I've often seen buses go past "full" with a couple of people standing downstairs, your response is to go on a rant about letters of complaint when people are asked to move upstairs, and then start talking about people in wheelchairs not being able to see if there's another wheelchair user on the bus. That's got absolutely nothing to do with it. For all I know there may be times when a driver's been directed not to stop - I'm just trying to find out if this is ossibly the case.

Then when I ask why somewhere between 10 and 20% of buses I get have the ticket machine set incorrectly, you start blaming me and calling me a martyr instead of answering the question. You also seem to be missing the point that even if I tell the driver every time it happens, everybody else who's already on the bus has the wrong ticket. Fortunately, other more helpful posters like AlekSmart are able to explain in a straightforward, coherent manner that there are in fact valid reasons why this can happen so often.

I said the vast majority of Dublin Bus drivers seem to be amiable people doing a good job, and you tell me to "press pause on my hatred for Dublin Bus".

I haven't seen you bust a single myth yet. Here, I'll give you one more go, because I genuinely don't know about this one:
If ticket machines are regularly incorrectly set, showing the bus as being at an earlier stage than it actually is, then a passenger boarding and asking for a ticket to a particular destination is going to be overcharged as a result.

i will answer any question asked, your problem is you don’t like the answer.

why would a bus with room pass you by at a stop?
you could be drinking beer at the stop, you could have cause problems on the bus before, the word could have been put out on the radio “ do not pick up the passenger at stop xxx, they are trouble”
Does this answers satisfy?

as you seem to notice the ticket machine is not set correctly, why don’t you inform the driver?
if you are in a supermarket and a item scans the wrong price at the check out, do you tell the check out operator or bite your lip and come on here bitching about being over charged in the supermarket?

you ask if the machine is set wrong are passengers being over charged?
the answer is NO.
the simple fact is the driver has issued tens of thousand of tickets, when a passenger gets on at stop A and ask for fare to stop B the driver don’t even look at the ticket machine, they know how much it costs and press the button.
No one is getting ripped off.

Happy now?

s8080 · 08-11-2014 3:55pm

Peppa Pig wrote: »

So purely anectodal evidence from drivers, not as the result of any investigation, cctv examination.

What about the other 3 questions?

the two modern wonders of GPS tracking and CCTV have resulted in the vast majority of complaints put in about driver been dismissed straight away.
“the bus left early, i was at the terminus at 1450 the bus is supposed to leave at 1500”
big boss man first checks GPS tracking, sees that bus was parked at terminus at 1450 and left at 1500. The complaint was lie.
“bus did not stop for me’
big boss man checks CCTV, bus full, passenger did not signal to bus they want to get on.

shock horror, sometimes the big boss man will show driver the CCTV of a complaint.”look at this, the complaint was you did not stop for this person at 1000 monday, tuesday and wednesday at stop xxx, there is not a soul waiting at the stop, some people just make up complaints for whatever mad reason”

you seem to think drivers do not talk to each other about complaints and visits to big boss man, if a driver is up with big boss man, when they go to canteen what do you think the topic of conversation is?

Peppa Pig · 08-11-2014 3:57pm

s8080 wrote: »

the two modern wonders of GPS tracking and CCTV have resulted in the vast majority of complaints put in about driver been dismissed straight away.

It' like drawing teeth - what about the other 2 questions?

And I'll add one - how do you know about the complaints from different garages and head office?

LXFlyer · 08-11-2014 4:00pm

s8080 wrote: »

if you don’t want to believe me don’t.
the fact is the workings of dublin bus are your hobby, you are probably one of these guys we see at the side of the street taking photos of buses and copying down the licence plate number in a note book. if this is what makes you happy i wish you all the best.

you come on here and share your knowledge of dublin bus, most of this knowledge is easily obtained on the dublin bus web site, i.e. time tables and which bus goes where.

then you have me and other drivers who have posted here, giving you info that no member of the public would ever know unless we told you.
when you don’t agree with what we state you dismiss it, i have zero reason to lie, the more the public know about how dublin bus really works the easier my job gets.
example, monday morning a regular gets on my bus at terminus starts complain to me about the fare increases , i explain it was not dublin bus who sets the fares but the NTA. next morning man gets on the bus “ i checked what you said, its true, i did not know that”. he then curses the NTA and does not have a go at me..

Well I find it not too surprising, given the tone of your posts to date, that you find it necessary to descend into attacking the poster, rather than dealing with the content of the post. You don't know the first thing about me, my background or interests, yet when I question the validity of what you're saying in some of your posts, you deem it ok to make frankly a very insulting post about me.

I would suggest it might be better to focus on the content of my posts rather than making all sorts of assumptions about me.

s8080 wrote: »

well here is a little bit of info that you would not know.
new timetables and some route changes are coming for routes 11,14,45a,145.

Wowee, bus company in potential schedule review shock.

You may well be right, but given the lengthy to-ing and fro-ing that goes on with any proposed schedule/route change, be it internally with drivers or externally with the NTA, I don't think I'll hold my breath. I'll wait until something appears on the DB website confirming that changes are happening. We're still waiting on the Network Direct changes for North Dublin, nearly three and a half years after they were first proposed.

s8080 · 08-11-2014 4:41pm

Peppa Pig wrote: »

It' like drawing teeth - what about the other 2 questions?

And I'll add one - how do you know about the complaints from different garages and head office?

there is a large canteen in city centre where drivers from all the depots meet, drivers transfer between depots , drivers have friends in other depots, drivers talk to each other, depots are not at war with each other.

s8080 · 08-11-2014 4:43pm

lxflyer wrote: »

, you deem it ok to make frankly a very insulting post about me.

I would suggest it might be better to focus on the content of my posts rather than making all sorts of assumptions about me.

I'll wait until something appears on the DB website confirming that changes are happening.

So you think it is a insult to be called a Bus Enthusiasts?
i don’t think there is anything wrong with them, i admit i don’t understand why they like buses, but i wish them all the best.

Then you admit you will get your info on the dublin bus web site, yet you post as if you are a expert ,as i stated you have no knowledge of how dublin bus works and you just proved it.

no wonder people don’t know how dublin bus work, they come on here and look for answers and you present yourself as a expert.

Peppa Pig · 08-11-2014 4:53pm

s8080 wrote: »

there is a large canteen in city centre where drivers from all the depots meet, drivers transfer between depots , drivers have friends in other depots, drivers talk to each other, depots are not at war with each other.

Well you don't want to answer all my questions and the answers provided can be summed up in "my mate told me", with not once piece of evidence to back up your claims.

This is not a mythbuster thread, it's a myth creator thread, creating myth about the NTA, DB management and passengers.

It seems to me you would have a great job if there were no passengers.

LXFlyer · 08-11-2014 5:08pm

s8080 wrote: »

So you think it is a insult to be called a Bus Enthusiasts?
i don’t think there is anything wrong with them, i admit i don’t understand why they like buses, but i wish them all the best.

Then you admit you will get your info on the dublin bus web site, yet you post as if you are a expert ,as i stated you have no knowledge of how dublin bus works and you just proved it.

no wonder people don’t know how dublin bus work, they come on here and look for answers and you present yourself as a expert.

With respect you made a lot of comments about who I am - that's against boards.ie rules - check them out. Who I am (or what my interest is) are of no consequence whatsoever to the argument.

You're making a lot of assumptions about what I know and what I don't know, yet not once have you provided actual backup to your statements regarding the NTA. I find it rather amusing that you seem to need to focus on me rather than the actual issues at hand. At the same time other drivers who have posted here for far longer are completely contradicting you.

You misrepresent me. I said with regard to schedule changes I would wait until they appear on the website. Anything can and usually does change until that happens. Schedules have been ready to go before and got pulled at the last minute before you know. The only time any schedule change is cast in stone is when it appears online.

Making that statement doesn't equate to that being the only source of information.

MOH · 09-11-2014 4:10am

s8080 wrote: »

i will answer any question asked, your problem is you don’t like the answer.

why would a bus with room pass you by at a stop?
you could be drinking beer at the stop, you could have cause problems on the bus before, the word could have been put out on the radio “ do not pick up the passenger at stop xxx, they are trouble”
Does this answers satisfy?

No, actually, none of those answers are satisfactory explanations for why I've stood with other passengers at rush hour going to work while buses failed to stop with no more two or three passengers standing. I will concede that sometime we fail to all hide our collective beer in time and this may be a factor. And I admit it is possible I have caused problems on a bus before by pointing out to a driver that his ticket machine is incorrectly set, which is obviously such a rare event as to have a passenger blacklisted for life.

as you seem to notice the ticket machine is not set correctly, why don’t you inform the driver?
if you are in a supermarket and a item scans the wrong price at the check out, do you tell the check out operator or bite your lip and come on here bitching about being over charged in the supermarket?

you ask if the machine is set wrong are passengers being over charged?
the answer is NO.
the simple fact is the driver has issued tens of thousand of tickets, when a passenger gets on at stop A and ask for fare to stop B the driver don’t even look at the ticket machine, they know how much it costs and press the button.
No one is getting ripped off.

Happy now?

Thank you so much. You've finally actually answered a question. I was uncertain as to whether a driver keys a destination code into the ticket machine and the machine decides the fare, or it's based on the driver's knowledge. I'm genuinely relieved to know that the driver determines the fare, and my fellow passengers are not being overcharged.

It actually makes no difference to me, since I just state the correct fare and pay that rather than a destination. I realise this is against standard Dublin Bus practice, but it has become a habit, which I apologise for. Perhaps this minor act of rebellion partly explains why I've been left standing at the stop by "full" buses. I should probably stand at a stop on my own to avoid dragging other passengers down with me.

As to your other question, if I'm overcharged in the supermarket I would usually go back and take advantage of Tesco's "double the difference" guarantee. Unfortunately, it's never happened to me, so my net gain there is zero.
I have occasionally pointed out to drivers that their machines are incorrectly set. While their response has been generally positive, it takes me a while to get going in the morning and I frequently forget to check. For this I bear full responsibility. I also dislike confrontation and, especially if the stop is busy, I am reluctant to delay boarding further by arguing over my ticket. I feel most drivers appreciate this, as the delay due to the time it takes for the ticket machine to switch over to Leap mode is bad enough for all parties concerned, without some idiot passenger moaning about incorrect stage settings.

I apologise for my spinelessness. I will in future refuse to be a victim. If I am ever again faced with a choice between quietly paying the correct fare or refusing to let the bus move until the ticket machine has been corrected, and all previous passengers have been issued correct tickets, I hereby resolve to do the right thing, even if I lack Dutch courage from my bus-stop beer-swilling.

Thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule to engage in mythbusting for us unenlightened folk. If I may ask a final question, are you the one with the glasses or the beret?

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 09-11-2014 12:27pm

s8080 wrote: »

you asked why no bus turned up.
i told you the night shift cannot do the work in the allotted time to ensure all buses are ready for service in the morning. drivers are reporting for work on time, there is no unofficial strike .
These are all facts.
some who post here dont like facts that dont reinforce their anti dublin bus position.
so i dont know what the "defensive about drivers " is all about, care to clarify or are you just happy to throw mud and hope some of it sticks?

In my original post I didn't say that the bus not turning up was the drivers fault. There could have been a fire at the depot for all I knew. In fact I didn't even mention the word driver in my original post. You, however, immediately assumed that I was having a go at the drivers and leapt to their defence. Hence my defensive about drivers comments.

Victor · 10-11-2014 9:28am

s8080 wrote: »

if you don’t want to believe me don’t.
the fact is the workings of dublin bus are your hobby, you are probably one of these guys we see at the side of the street taking photos of buses and copying down the licence plate number in a note book. if this is what makes you happy i wish you all the best.

you come on here and share your knowledge of dublin bus, most of this knowledge is easily obtained on the dublin bus web site, i.e. time tables and which bus goes where.

then you have me and other drivers who have posted here, giving you info that no member of the public would ever know unless we told you.
when you don’t agree with what we state you dismiss it, i have zero reason to lie

Please don't personalise posts.

Moderator

Mahogany · 11-11-2014 7:49pm

s8080 wrote: »

No one is getting ripped off.

Happy now?

lol

Bray Head · 11-11-2014 11:31pm

Dear s8080

Do you have any idea why stops in Dublin are so close together? I have never been in a city where they are so close, in some cases less than 150m. Would drivers prefer if stops were spaced further apart?

As passenger I would prefer if there were less of them. I would have slightly longer to walk at the start of my journey but there would be less jolting and I would get there faster as there would be less stops.

Is this something that drivers have strong views on?

Boulevardier · 11-11-2014 11:37pm

Bray Head, I don't entirely agree with you but I can think of 1 example quite near me, on Upper Rathmines Road where there are 2 stops only 20 yards from each other. They are on the same side of the road with the same routes stopping at them.

There is a history behind why they are both there, but it no longer applies, yet these 2 daft stops cause confusion for passengers (and drivers) on route 140 to this day.

Dublin Bus Mythbuster

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