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M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

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Comments

  • #802
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    mayo23 wrote: »
    In my opinion, the M17 should be built first, at least to the tuam side of claregalway. At least then the worst bottleneck on the N17 would be bypassed and you'd only need to build around 8 to 10km of the motorway.

    Given the route it's not really an option. The plan brings the road east of Lackagh and if I'm reading the map right Turloughmore villages, near the existing Annagh crossroads. The CG bypass would be a better option than that. Besides the N63 (Roscommon Rd) as it is can't take an extra 10-15k vehicles per day without a serious upgrade and there'd be a lot more traffic using the Athenry-Tuam road if this section was built on it's own. There is no realistic way of splitting this part of the project.

    On the other hand they could split the N18 portion as it is planned to cross the existing road at Kiltiernan (a possible toll site under the FCC offer) about two miles north of Ardrahan.

    Benbecul97 wrote: »
    Its a complete joke that Limerick and Ennis are not fully connected with motorway standard road to Galway.

    Be that as it may, the N18 is not as important to Galway city as the M17 section - the majority of the traffic comes from north Galway not south Galway (I've never really had a problem getting into Galway from gort at 4pm on a saturday, the traffic backs up to the N63 regularly on the N17.


  • #803
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,575 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Benbecul97 wrote: »
    why? why not just build the interconnection with the M6 and leave north of the M6 like Gort is now left - ready for the next phase.

    That is inherently a new junction design. The junction planned is a triple level stack, it would be impossible to part-build it while leaving it capable of having construction resumed and it would be unsafe to build it and leave the M17/18 section unused.


  • #804
    Benbecul97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭Benbecul97


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Be that as it may, the N18 is not as important to Galway city as the M17 section - the majority of the traffic comes from north Galway not south Galway (I've never really had a problem getting into Galway from gort at 4pm on a saturday, the traffic backs up to the N63 regularly on the N17.

    :confused: traffic wise perhaps, but economic wise??


  • #805
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Benbecul97 wrote: »
    :confused: traffic wise perhaps, but economic wise??
    From what I hear from factories, most of the goods out of galway go to dublin port as it is. So from that pov getting the larger number of employees to galway quicker makes economic sense. Besides, while I don't drive it as often, IMO the N18 is probably a bit better than the N17 for the amount of traffic that uses it.


  • #806
    Benbecul97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭Benbecul97


    antoobrien wrote: »
    From what I hear from factories, most of the goods out of galway go to dublin port as it is. So from that pov getting the larger number of employees to galway quicker makes economic sense. Besides, while I don't drive it as often, IMO the N18 is probably a bit better than the N17 for the amount of traffic that uses it.

    So there are more people using the N17 to get into the city to work than are using the N18 to get into the city to work?


  • #807
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Benbecul97 wrote: »
    So there are more people using the N17 to get into the city to work than are using the N18 to get into the city to work?

    That's my impression yes, however there's no counter figures north of Gort to back this up (Gort counter is now bypassed by new N18).


  • #808
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    antoobrien wrote: »
    That's my impression yes, however there's no counter figures north of Gort to back this up (Gort counter is now bypassed by new N18).

    This is only my opinion, but i think its more important to have the M17/18 built. I think from an economic pov, to have Galway - Shannon - Limerick joined via motorway can define an economic region that could be used for any future regional development plans. I dont believe this is just about the people traveling to work in Galway in the mornings, its more about the Galway to Limerick corridor.


  • #809
    etchyed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 674 ✭✭✭etchyed


    MYOB wrote: »
    That is inherently a new junction design. The junction planned is a triple level stack, it would be impossible to part-build it while leaving it capable of having construction resumed and it would be unsafe to build it and leave the M17/18 section unused.
    How would it be unsafe to build the whole interchange (including a few hundred metres of M17) and then just leave the M17 section closed?


  • #810
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    etchyed wrote: »
    How would it be unsafe to build the whole interchange (including a few hundred metres of M17) and then just leave the M17 section closed?

    Not very, that's more or less what they did with the start of the N6 at Kinnegad and the Killbeggan to Athlone section.

    The proposed junction is a 3 tier stack, the middle layer being for turning and the north/southbound traffic being the top layer. To do what you're suggesting, they should only have to build the roundabout tier and bring the N18 as far as the northern side of the junction (where the M17 would begin/end).

    Maybe FCC could redesign it to be fully freeflow


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  • #811
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,575 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Not very, that's more or less what they did with the start of the N6 at Kinnegad and the Killbeggan to Athlone section.

    The proposed junction is a 3 tier stack, the middle layer being for turning and the north/southbound traffic being the top layer. To do what you're suggesting, they should only have to build the roundabout tier and bring the N18 as far as the northern side of the junction (where the M17 would begin/end).

    Maybe FCC could redesign it to be fully freeflow

    Building only the middle two layers would mean that the entire junction - and the road beneath - would need to be closed for periods AGAIN to construction the top layer.

    Building the top layer would effectively leave numerous ski jumps - the slips to the M17 section from the roundabout and the main top layer itself - that some elderly woman like that at Moate would invariably drive over.

    I'd love if they could design it to be freeflow, especially as the main reason for the triple level was to allow an MSA to be glued on to it, but that would require new planning permissions, possibly a new EIS, etc etc.


  • #812
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    3 tier stack, dear lord what's wrong with these people and their roundabout fetish :mad:

    Can they not build a cloverleaf interchange as is common on the interstate system for example?


  • #813
    etchyed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 674 ✭✭✭etchyed


    etchyed wrote: »
    How would it be unsafe...?
    antoobrien wrote: »
    Not very...
    I don't really understand this as an answer to my question. Not being smart, I just don't.
    The proposed junction is a 3 tier stack, the middle layer being for turning and the north/southbound traffic being the top layer. To do what you're suggesting, they should only have to build the roundabout tier and bring the N18 as far as the northern side of the junction (where the M17 would begin/end).
    I know all that, but I don't understand when you say they need only build the roundabout level, and then say they need to "bring the N18 as far as the northern side". Surely bringing the N18 as far as the northern side would mean building the third level?

    My question (to MYOB) was that if the whole junction was built along with the M18 and a few hundred metres of closed-off M17, what would the problem be?

    EDIT:Sorry MYOB, have just seen your reply. Sorry to be ignorant but I still don't understand. What do you mean by ski jumps?


  • #814
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,575 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    etchyed wrote: »
    EDIT:Sorry MYOB, have just seen your reply. Sorry to be ignorant but I still don't understand. What do you mean by ski jumps?

    Ramps ending in mid air. This being Ireland, some licence amnesty auld wan/auld lad would manage to fly off them.

    The third level on a triple stack is quite high off the ground (unless the first level is sunken down - which it isn't in this case) so they'd need to complete a huge amount of earthworks and road building of the M17 section also to avoid this risk.


  • #815
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    MYOB wrote: »
    Ramps ending in mid air. This being Ireland, some licence amnesty auld wan/auld lad would manage to fly off them.

    The third level on a triple stack is quite high off the ground (unless the first level is sunken down - which it isn't in this case) so they'd need to complete a huge amount of earthworks and road building of the M17 section also to avoid this risk.
    I don't find this convincing. Roads are closed off with huge concrete blocks all the time. How is someone going to get through those? It's physically impossible. If you wanted to be really sure, you could complete the onramp down to mainline level.

    I don't see any impediment to building the junction with parts closed off - I've seen this on Gmaps on the Interstate numerous times. The only objection is that the whole scheme is needed anyway.


  • #816
    YouTookMyName
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭YouTookMyName


    Any update on this:

    Balfour Beatty / BAM team wins £250m Irish road PPP


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  • #817
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    I don't see any impediment to building the junction with parts closed off

    Indeed, you can even put a giant vuvuzela there and a clock on one!

    4798860606_57c192cf2b.jpg


  • #818
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    YouTookMyName wrote: »
    Any update on this:

    Balfour Beatty / BAM team wins £250m Irish road PPP

    Coverage of BAMs woes starts at page 41 of this thread, I suggest you go read from there.


  • #819
    LFC Murphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭LFC Murphy


    Taoiseach casts doubts over future of M17
    By SIOBHÁN HOLLIMAN
    THE Taoiseach has cast doubt over the long-awaited €500 million M17 and Tuam Bypass scheme.
    Responding to The Tuam Herald during his Co Galway visit on Friday, Taoiseach Enda Kenny indicated that large infrastructural projects like the long-awaited motorway wouldn’t go ahead until the country’s economy stabilises and regained international confidence.
    “It would be lovely to say that we can start these major infrastructure projects just like that. There isn’t any money for many of these projects now,” he responded, when asked about the M17 going ahead.
    He said these would only be considered once the budget deficit and the banking situation were sorted out and when confidence is restored in the economy.
    Despite speculation and suggestions that the Tuam Bypass should proceed as a stand-alone project, it has been made clear that the NRA cannot entertain or discuss the idea while the current tender process relating to the PPP scheme for the motorway is still active.
    “The tender for the M17 route, which incorporates the Tuam Bypass, is currently active and cannot be re-tendered,” stated an NRA spokesperson.
    Keaveney confident
    Labour Deputy Colm Keaveney is confident that the government will support proceeding with the Tuam Bypass should the M17 PPP fail to materialise.
    Transport Minister Leo Varadkar has also indicated his support for the proposal in the Dáil but stressed that the government intended to pursue the PPP for as long as possible.
    The Gort to Tuam scheme is being tendered by the NRA as a PPP and is reliant on private sector funding for the construction and operation costs. While it had initially been expected that the contract would be awarded late last year, the instability in Ireland’s economy has resulted in delays in progressing the scheme to financial close.
    The NRA has since asked the two final tenderers to provide new tenders based on different financial costs. Once the Preferred Tenderer is appointed then the NRA and the Preferred Tenderer will hold a funding competition to seek funding for the scheme. The NRA expects to have a clearer indication by the end of the summer as to whether or not this new tender process will be successful.
    However it is increasingly likely that a toll will be placed on the route. While the NRA is looking for consultants to assess future and existing tolls on routes around the country, it has already estimated that it could accrue up to €7 million a year or €20,000 a day by placing a toll on the Tuam Bypass.
    €1.80 toll for bypass?
    If the proposal is progressed, motorists would pay €1.80 each time they use the new road. An estimated 11,000 vehicles are set to travel each day on the Tuam Bypass when it is constructed, generating nearly €20,000.
    Tolling the town bypass might affect untolled roads, such as the old N17 route, and force traffic back into the town centre. The NRA has previously pointed out that the potential for the diversion of traffic away from the tolled section of road is an important consideration in the selection of new locations.
    Suggestions of including tolls on the Tuam Bypass and parts of the M17 were always opposed as it was felt that it would deter motorists from using the route.
    Galway West Independent TD Noel Grealish believes motorists are already returning to the back roads to travel from Galway to Athlone because they can’t afford to pay two tolls.
    Tuam or Claregalway?
    WHILE no decision can be made yet by the government or the NRA on building the Tuam Bypass as a stand-alone project, if it is unlinked from the M17 scheme it could face competition for funding from the Claregalway relief road.
    Deputy Noel Grealish has always campaigned for a Claregalway bypass and said the idea that the M17 would act as a bypass of the village simply didn’t stand up.
    Funding has been secured to progress the Claregalway road to design stage but there has been no indication that there are funds to pay for the lands or the actual building.
    Deputy Grealish believes that once a preferred route is chosen, the CPO process would be fast, however funding hasn’t been secured.
    There could be a possibility that the Government will have to make the tough decision as to which bypass to prioritise — Claregalway or Tuam.
    Deputy Grealish says if funding of between €12 million and €15 million was in place, the Claregalway road could start by the end of next year. Previous estimates costed the Tuam Bypass at €30 million.
    He says the Tuam Bypass is still part of the M17 project and the NRA have no plans to make it a stand alone project.
    Galway Co Council says the Claregalway relief road is in the very initial stages but it does expect to have an emerging preferred route within the next two or three months. It only has funding to complete the design stage and without any further indication of Government money, it can’t proceed with the CPO of lands for the road. Discussions with Council sources also indicate that Tuam’s Bypass is unlikely to proceed as a stand-alone project and that if the M17 is stalled then the Tuam road will be too.

    http://www.tuamherald.ie/?p=9467


  • #820
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Indeed, you can even put a giant vuvuzela there and a clock on one!

    4798860606_57c192cf2b.jpg
    I cant wait until the "Hyundai brings the gees" marketing campaign reaches these shores. It will turn a few heads. :pac:


  • #821
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    YouTookMyName wrote: »
    Any update on this:

    Balfour Beatty / BAM team wins £250m Irish road PPP

    I came across this page (contents quoted) while following up on something I saw on the M11 - Arklow to Rathnew thread
    Project ID: 122364
    Date Last Updated: 05/07/2011
    Easting:
    Northing:
    Address: N17/N18 Gort to Tuam PPP Scheme, Tuam
    County: Co. Galway
    Post code:
    Contract Stage: On Hold
    Planning Stage: Planning Not Required
    Planning Documents:
    Planning Authority: Galway Co. Co.
    Planning Reference No.:
    Application Date:
    Decision Date:
    Start Date:
    Finish Date:
    Period:
    Floor Area:
    Site Area:
    Structures:
    Value: €300,000,000 (Estimate)
    Funding Type: PPP
    Units:
    Storeys:
    Car Parking:
    Construction Type: New Build

    Apparently BAM have been awarded the contract to start the M11 & N7 junction upgrade on Sept 1st, which was supposed to have been PPP.

    The history of the M11 project makes interesting reading - it was changed from PPP to public funding earlier this year
    08/07/2011 Contract Stage updated to Main Contract Awarded
    08/07/2011 Project Roles were updated
    08/07/2011 Funding is expected to be sought in late Summer 2011.
    08/07/2011 The contract is expected to be officially awarded once full funding has been secured for the project.
    08/07/2011 BAM PPP and Balfour Beatty Capital Limited have been identified as the successful tenderer for the project.
    13/05/2011 Funding Type updated to Public


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  • #822
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    Does this mean no M18/M17 this year?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0804/kerry.html

    Construction is set to begin this morning on the 13.5km bypass of Tralee in Co Kerry.

    The Tralee bypass is one of only six national projects going ahead this year.

    The €97m project includes an 8km dual carriageway around Tralee town and a 5.5km single carriageway link to the Killarney Road.

    It will take 21 months to build and up to 150 people will be employed during construction.

    Business and tourist interest groups have welcomed the development, which is seen as essential for the region's economic growth.

    As well as cutting traffic levels in Tralee town by 25%, the new bypass will improve access to Kerry Airport as well as travel to and from Killarney.

    It is expected that almost 19,000 vehicles per day will travel the route by 2026.

    Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar will turn the sod today to mark the official start of the project.

    Other national projects going ahead this year include the €98m N5 road project in Cork, the N3 Belturbet Bypass, the N5 Longford Bypass, the N4 Downs Grade Separation project, and the N52 Carrickbridge to Dalystown project.


  • #823
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,604 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    glineli wrote: »
    Does this mean no M18/M17 this year?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0804/kerry.html

    Construction is set to begin this morning on the 13.5km bypass of Tralee in Co Kerry.

    The Tralee bypass is one of only six national projects going ahead this year.

    The €97m project includes an 8km dual carriageway around Tralee town and a 5.5km single carriageway link to the Killarney Road.

    It will take 21 months to build and up to 150 people will be employed during construction.

    Business and tourist interest groups have welcomed the development, which is seen as essential for the region's economic growth.

    As well as cutting traffic levels in Tralee town by 25%, the new bypass will improve access to Kerry Airport as well as travel to and from Killarney.

    It is expected that almost 19,000 vehicles per day will travel the route by 2026.

    Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar will turn the sod today to mark the official start of the project.

    Other national projects going ahead this year include the €98m N5 road project in Cork, the N3 Belturbet Bypass, the N5 Longford Bypass, the N4 Downs Grade Separation project, and the N52 Carrickbridge to Dalystown project.

    Spot the error.

    Pedantic Pat stuff aside, they market the crumbs quite well dont they. At least 2 of those projects should have not been prioritised this year. Varadakar attended the most useless of them all.


  • #824
    mk6705
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 721 ✭✭✭mk6705


    glineli wrote: »
    Does this mean no M18/M17 this year?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0804/kerry.html

    Construction is set to begin this morning on the 13.5km bypass of Tralee in Co Kerry.

    The Tralee bypass is one of only six national projects going ahead this year.

    The €97m project includes an 8km dual carriageway around Tralee town and a 5.5km single carriageway link to the Killarney Road.

    It will take 21 months to build and up to 150 people will be employed during construction.

    Business and tourist interest groups have welcomed the development, which is seen as essential for the region's economic growth.

    As well as cutting traffic levels in Tralee town by 25%, the new bypass will improve access to Kerry Airport as well as travel to and from Killarney.

    It is expected that almost 19,000 vehicles per day will travel the route by 2026.

    Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar will turn the sod today to mark the official start of the project.

    Other national projects going ahead this year include the €98m N5 road project in Cork, the N3 Belturbet Bypass, the N5 Longford Bypass, the N4 Downs Grade Separation project, and the N52 Carrickbridge to Dalystown project.

    The year isn't over yet.


  • #825
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Varadakar attended the most useless of them all.
    Would you rather have seen one of the Healy Rae clan open it?


  • #826
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,604 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Would you rather have seen one of the Healy Rae clan open it?

    Point is that the Transport minister should know a priority when he sees one. Waste of time going SW today..

    So to answer your q, begrudgengly yes


  • #827
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Mod Note:

    Folks the recent discussions over the last few pages questioning the need for this project are in fact derailing the entire thread. This thread is designed for construction updates and progress only.

    Another thread can be created to discuss the pros and cons of this scheme.

    Thanks,
    Tech3


  • #828
    Neworder79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    Varadkar finally coming clean, may as well shut this forum as far as new schemes go, almost all the national and secondary upgrades plans scrapped:

    45 major road projects 'shelved'
    WORK on all major new road projects is being suspended because of spending cutbacks.

    The National Roads Authority (NRA) has been ordered by Transport Minister Leo Varadkar to stop work on them, the Irish Independent has learnt.

    This is in addition to the 40 projects already suspended.

    Of the 45 routes being shelved, 32 are national primary and 13 are national secondary; bypasses include Slane, Clonmel, Thurles, Kenmare, Listowel, Dungarvan and Adare.

    A major question mark has also been placed over three roads due to be bankrolled by the private sector in exchange for tolls.

    These are the N11 Arklow to Rathnew/Newlands Cross; M17/28 Gort to Tuam; and the N11/25 Enniscorthy and New Ross bypasses.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/on-the-road-to-nowhere-45-routes-axed-as-cutbacks-bite-2842859.html

    http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/45-major-road-projects-shelved-515894.html


  • #829
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Not acceptable.

    But I still anticipate they'll capitulate on this. The job-creation benefits and industry lobbying will see to it.


  • #830
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Seems this project is on life support but Veradkar has not turned the switch off ....yet.

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/20906-two-galway-road-projects-suspended

    Two major Galway national road projects are to be suspended due to funding difficulties.

    Transport Minister Leo Vradkar has ordered the NRA to halt work on the N59 Cliften to Oughterard secondary route and plans for the Moycullen Bypass.

    Work on the M17/M28 Gort to Tuam road may also be shelved depending on the availability of private sector funding in exchange for tolls.


  • #831
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Seems this project is on life support but Veradkar has not turned the switch off ....yet.

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/20906-two-galway-road-projects-suspended

    Two major Galway national road projects are to be suspended due to funding difficulties.

    Transport Minister Leo Vradkar has ordered the NRA to halt work on the N59 Cliften to Oughterard secondary route and plans for the Moycullen Bypass.

    Work on the M17/M28 Gort to Tuam road may also be shelved depending on the availability of private sector funding in exchange for tolls.

    M17/M28?


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  • #832
    Benbecul97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭Benbecul97


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    M17/M28?

    Its a typo! M17/M18


  • #833
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,575 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Benbecul97 wrote: »
    Its a typo! M17/M18

    Nah, its just a single scheme to go from Tuam to Ringaskiddy encompassing the M17, M18, M20 and the N28 dualling, all part of the plans :P


  • #834
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    It appears that BAM are still hoping to get this project underway. Buried in an article about them being the preferred bidder for a nationwide Board Gais project and discussing their safety record is this comment:
    The spokesman said that safety would be its "over-arching priority" in whatever projects it carried out -- which would include the €297m Gort-Tuam motorway project in Co Galway.

    While it's good to see the (remote) possibility that they'll start this project, the fact they they are still linked with the project raises a question about the tendering system for PPP projects: Is there an expiration on their status as preferred bidder where they would have to give up the project if they can't raise the funds?


  • #835
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    Anyone got any updates on this? I see on the NRA site its still set to tender state.


  • #836
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    glineli wrote: »
    Anyone got any updates on this? I see on the NRA site its still set to tender state.
    See here.


  • #837
    moto111
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭moto111


    D-Day dawns for Gort to Tuam motorway

    Intense behind the scenes negotiations are taking with two of the consortiums who had tendered to build the much delayed Gort to Tuam motorway in an effort to rekindle interest the project which already has swallowed up €140 million.

    But if no progress is made as a result of these top level discussions, then it is d-day for the M17/M18 motorway with the National Roads Authority having to decide where to begin the tender process all over again or scrap the plan for several years.

    And it has been learned that the NRA would not be averse to both consortiums getting involved in the project if it meant that the motorway could be built.

    Late last year the contract for the €500 million project was awarded to the BAM Balfour Beatty consortium but contract documents were never signed as they could not secure the financial backing required to proceed with the project.

    It has allowed the National Roads Authority to enter into top secret discussions with this consortium along with Roadbridge, the consortium from Limerick which failed to secure the tender for the 57 kilometre motorway.

    A source within the NRA told The Connacht Tribune that the discussions centered on making the project attractive from an investment point of view but wouldn’t divulge any further details of the talks.

    “Basically we are trying to create an environment which would make it easier for one of the consortiums to secure the necessary funding to invest in a project in this country. We should know the outcome within the next couple of weeks when an announcement will be made”, the source said.


  • #838
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    moto111 wrote: »
    It has allowed the National Roads Authority to enter into top secret discussions with this consortium along with Roadbridge, the consortium from Limerick which failed to secure the tender for the 57 kilometre motorway.

    Anybody have any idea why the NRA would have to have discussions that are top secret?


  • #839
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Anybody have any idea why the NRA would have to have discussions that are top secret?

    There could be any number of legal reasons for keeping things quiet, or they could simply be trying to do business and not letting the press get in the way (e.g. lumping on an extra €200 to make construction costs look like 500m not the 250-300m I've seen from other sources).

    I think it could have to do with the fact that the Roadbridge financial consortium includes a certain Irish bank which has been bailed out for the second time in 25 years.


  • #840
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I fear that the longer this process goes on, the more likely the M17/M18 is to be "suspended" by Leo Varadkar, a la Metro West.

    Chris was dead right when he said this was the most important major road project in recent history.


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  • #841
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Question is whether a ( in total) €400m PPP like this is kept 'alive' or a €150m PPP like the N7/N11 project. I suspect I know the answer.

    Roll on the Claregalway Bypass.


  • #842
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Question is whether a ( in total) €400m PPP like this is kept 'alive' or a €150m PPP like the N7/N11 project. I suspect I know the answer.

    Roll on the Claregalway Bypass.

    Claregalway Bypass and Galway Outer Bypass... ffs so obviously neeed.


  • #843
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,575 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Bonds are at 8.2% now. Crawling downwards...


  • #844
    jenningso
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭jenningso


    A Claregalway bypass coupled with the removal of the roundabouts in Galway............. a recipe for 5 mile tailbacks into Galway, what a mess! What I mean is that this isn't a problem that can be solved with the Claregalway bypass alone, Galway City needs it's outer bypass badly and maybe then a simple bypass of Claregalway would be a fine solution until Ireland Inc can afford the M17/M18. This is a sad situation we're in, millions have been spend on land aquisition on the M17/18 route already so I suppose there are individuals in the NRA who will want the project to proceed as is. If only they bypassed Claregalway a decade ago.........
    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Question is whether a ( in total) €400m PPP like this is kept 'alive' or a €150m PPP like the N7/N11 project. I suspect I know the answer.

    Roll on the Claregalway Bypass.


  • #845
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    MYOB wrote: »
    Bonds are at 8.2% now. Crawling downwards...

    That's a big drop for one day - the 10 Year Bond Yields for Ireland were hovering at around 8.65% for the last few days - until today.

    Regards!


  • #846
    black47
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭black47


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    That's a big drop for one day - the 10 Year Bond Yields for Ireland were hovering at around 8.65% for the last few days - until today.

    Regards!

    I know someone has posted previously but I can't seem to find it. What % does the bond percentage have to drop to before one of the consortia will bite


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  • #847
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    black47 wrote: »
    I know someone has posted previously but I can't seem to find it. What % does the bond percentage have to drop to before one of the consortia will bite

    It was in another thread, the post is here if you want to read the analysis.

    In short we're not really sure but we think that the 5 & 10 year bonds need to go to somewhere around 5% before they start becoming viable.

    The current yields are:
    5 years - 7.653%
    10 year - 8.174%


  • #848
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I'd say we are 6 months away right now from any PPP being funded. We would need 2 x GNP/GDP quarters in the right direction to engeder confidence and we would need that long to get the 10 year yield down around the 5% I would think.

    It is going in the right direction but it would take very little to derail that rather recent progress. 10 Year may even go below 8.1% today, now at 8.119%

    There are signs of yield inversion which will confuse the message but there are encouraging developments on CDS where we dropped ( from a high level) as others rose, eg France and Germany. Then again CDS is the new short selling and is somewhat meaningless as a measure...even if it does obsess certain people. :)

    But we are nevertheless some time from getting any PPP off and it will likely be the much smaller Newlands PPP and perhaps the school bundle containing the 2 new Doughiska schools rather than Gort -Tuam.


  • #849
    eugyoung
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭eugyoung


    Hik Guy just a bit of a finance head its at 7.93 at the moment


  • #850
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    black47 wrote: »
    I know someone has posted previously but I can't seem to find it. What % does the bond percentage have to drop to before one of the consortia will bite

    Around 5% for 10 year bonds I think - AFAIK, this figure is similar to that Ireland enjoyed before the yields increased towards the end of 2010 - this put immense pressure on Ireland to accept the current bailout.

    Regards!


  • #851
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    eugyoung wrote: »
    Hik Guy just a bit of a finance head its at 7.93 at the moment
    It may well be but look at the 1 year, we need de-inversion as well.


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