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Which programming language will pay the highest rates?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭johnwd


    Berserker wrote: »
    Middle and upper earners, which covers pretty much every developer in the country, doesn't have a political voice. We are "rich" and "right wing". If you are young, mainframes seems to be a good area to get into. The average age of the teams I have come across is very high. Could be a real gold mine in decades to come; supply and demand.
    I wouldn't recommend COBOL for job satisfaction - very hard to get something done quickly in that language. A mixture of COBOL and something else might be very satisfactory. For example code normal programs in COBOL but if there is a data conversion to be done then do that in javascript/vba etc.


    Even if we do have low income tax the benefits that accrue to one on paying those taxes are virtually 0. How many of our EU brethren have to:
    Pay 60 to see a doctor and then another 50 on top for medicine after
    Pay 2000+ for health insurance on top of their PRSI for their family and then pay at least 100 excess every time they access same.
    Pay taxes till they are 68 to pay the guaranteed pensions of others who can retire in their 50s and 60s.
    Pay unfair and as near as damn it retrospective taxes on their own pension pots going towards retirement.
    Pay what MUST SURELY BE the highest motor tax rates in Europe yet have the lowest population density (and hence fug all public transport - which has also gone up 40% or some such during the depression!).
    OH - and if you are a contractor on that nice daily rate paying high taxes - have NO right to social welfare.
    If your name is Google or Apple then we're a low tax economy allright! Irelands Tax slogan should be "The commuter pays".
    Sorry for hijacking this thread.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,674 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    My own 2c is that there are languages out there that pay higher. But then this rate differential will attract new entrants either from with the EU market or via industry pressure to liberalise visa rules (as Minister Burton has recently done). Which then creates a gap in other skills, and so the Schumpeter type cycle is driven.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Zander1983 wrote: »
    I find it absolutely amazing Ireland is described as a law tax country. It is - for anyone earning below 30k.
    Ireland has unfortunately inherited a culture and economy that predates the Celtic Tiger, where living off the fat of the land (Dole and social welfare) was considered an acceptable lifestyle, and where inevitably the cost of maintaining a significant proportion of the population who are permanently in receipt of such payments ends up being left to anyone who earns even above a modest salary by Western standards. We're kind of trapped in this situation, I'm afraid, as it is seen as a basic right by some to be maintained indefinitely by the state, with some families literally never having held down a job for multiple generations.

    Overall, if you consider tax, cost of living and salary, Ireland does not have a very attractive long-term package to offer (before we consider value for money for those taxes we would pay). A good rule of thumb is to consider how much you'd theoretically save as a percentage of your salary, taking into account costs, taxation and salary. If you do you'll find Ireland comes pretty low on the list of OECD countries.
    johnwd wrote: »
    OH - and if you are a contractor on that nice daily rate paying high taxes - have NO right to social welfare.
    Not entirely true. When contracting, most are directors of the contracting umbrella companies that they use to facilitate their activities and may elect not to pay PRSI - if going through a contracting service or accountant, this is the default position as it saves you tax and makes them look good, but you can choose to pay your contributions, and thus be eligible for unemployment benefit, if you wish.

    Whether you would bother is another thing. Unlike most of Europe, unemployment insurance in Ireland does not reflect what your lost income was. You just get the same as some scumbag who's never worked a day in their life. And if you have less that 20k in the bank it makes no difference anyway.

    Indeed, if you're on 100k p.a. as a contractor, you'll have to pay 4k to qualify for a maximum 9 months of benefit - which means you'll get the full 7.3k p.a. (presuming single with no kids) without deductions. Even if your assets were such that you'd not get a penny without contributions, you'll have paid double what you'd get back within two years. In short, you're better off putting what you'd pay in PRSI into a rainy day fund in most cases.

    Pensions are even worse, as you can easily fail to qualify for a contributory one if you don't pay stamps or work abroad for a few years. Even if you do qualify, the way things are going you simply cannot count on a state pension in 20 or 30 years time - if viewed from the cold perspective of an investment, they qualify as frankly little more as junk status - without a particularly high return. Not that a private pension is much better as this will undoubtedly end up raided too, if not eventually nationalized.

    Regrettably, I came to the conclusion in my mid thirties that Ireland is a great country to live in when you're starting your career and on a low salary. Or if you're unemployed. But once you reach a certain level, there's few options for either career advancement and you end up penalized for any financial success.

    So I left.


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Zander1983


    Ireland has unfortunately inherited a culture and economy that predates the Celtic Tiger, where living off the fat of the land (Dole and social welfare) was considered an acceptable lifestyle, and where inevitably the cost of maintaining a significant proportion of the population who are permanently in receipt of such payments ends up being left to anyone who earns even above a modest salary by Western standards. We're kind of trapped in this situation, I'm afraid, as it is seen as a basic right by some to be maintained indefinitely by the state, with some families literally never having held down a job for multiple generations.

    Overall, if you consider tax, cost of living and salary, Ireland does not have a very attractive long-term package to offer (before we consider value for money for those taxes we would pay). A good rule of thumb is to consider how much you'd theoretically save as a percentage of your salary, taking into account costs, taxation and salary. If you do you'll find Ireland comes pretty low on the list of OECD countries.

    Not entirely true. When contracting, most are directors of the contracting umbrella companies that they use to facilitate their activities and may elect not to pay PRSI - if going through a contracting service or accountant, this is the default position as it saves you tax and makes them look good, but you can choose to pay your contributions, and thus be eligible for unemployment benefit, if you wish.

    Whether you would bother is another thing. Unlike most of Europe, unemployment insurance in Ireland does not reflect what your lost income was. You just get the same as some scumbag who's never worked a day in their life. And if you have less that 20k in the bank it makes no difference anyway.

    Indeed, if you're on 100k p.a. as a contractor, you'll have to pay 4k to qualify for a maximum 9 months of benefit - which means you'll get the full 7.3k p.a. (presuming single with no kids) without deductions. Even if your assets were such that you'd not get a penny without contributions, you'll have paid double what you'd get back within two years. In short, you're better off putting what you'd pay in PRSI into a rainy day fund in most cases.

    Pensions are even worse, as you can easily fail to qualify for a contributory one if you don't pay stamps or work abroad for a few years. Even if you do qualify, the way things are going you simply cannot count on a state pension in 20 or 30 years time - if viewed from the cold perspective of an investment, they qualify as frankly little more as junk status - without a particularly high return. Not that a private pension is much better as this will undoubtedly end up raided too, if not eventually nationalized.

    Regrettably, I came to the conclusion in my mid thirties that Ireland is a great country to live in when you're starting your career and on a low salary. Or if you're unemployed. But once you reach a certain level, there's few options for either career advancement and you end up penalized for any financial success.

    So I left.

    I agree whole-heartedly with all of this. It's truly depressing. Unfortuneately, I dont have the option to move, too many ties at home. Where'd you move?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Zander1983 wrote: »
    Where'd you move?
    Look to the left, under join date.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    My own 2c is that it's about technologies and platforms, not languages.

    I'm nearly 27 years in the business and programming/development on the whole is becoming a degraded skill.

    Stuff comes and goes out of fashion, I remember SAP R/3 was the holy grail for contracting in the 90's, then client/server, then n-tier, next it was Java, now it's MVC.

    The biggest earners I'm seeing right now in the game are architects.


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