Gluten Free

William F · 05-03-2015 11:33am #1

Is the diet that healthy? From what I have read, most people have suggested that we as a people should be eliminating grains entirely from our diet (where gluten is most prevalent) as they are nutritionally useless and are more harmful than good. Is this true and are starches an ok supplement?

fungie · 06-03-2015 11:42pm

William F wrote: »

Is the diet that healthy? From what I have read, most people have suggested that we as a people should be eliminating grains entirely from our diet (where gluten is most prevalent) as they are nutritionally useless and are more harmful than good. Is this true and are starches an ok supplement?

Its a load of crap. Unless you are celiac, have crohn's etc they are completely fine, eat away.

littlenubbin85 · 09-03-2015 5:05pm

There's no need to eliminate gluten whatsoever from your diet unless you are a coeliac or gluten intolerant.

Alexis Sanchez2 · 09-03-2015 7:42pm

Gluten has been proven to be harmful to the general population in countless scientific studies. I'll post the links.

fungie · 09-03-2015 9:50pm

Alexis Sanchez2 wrote: »

Gluten has been proven to be harmful to the general population in countless scientific studies. I'll post the links.

nah, thats ok. Posting links without baseline knowledge or without a grounding in the literature is pretty pointless. It leads to cherry picking studies and not fully understanding them.

stickyfinger · 10-03-2015 5:22pm

Agree with fungie, there is no point in giving up gluten unless you have an allergy or intolerance. Also most gluten free foods have increased amounts of sugar and fat in order to compensate for the lack of gluten so you are probably ending up with a worse diet by buying gluten free when it's not needed.

Hatfry · 11-03-2015 10:40pm

stickyfinger wrote: »

Also most gluten free processed foods have increased amounts of sugar and fat in order to compensate for the lack of gluten

Fixed.

The main benefit I find from going gluten free every now and again is that I tend to make much better food choices. Have noticed this is universal amongst friends who also try.

Also the modern variant of wheat is a whole lot different to what we ate even 100 years ago.

househero · 14-03-2015 12:08am

I have heard so many idiots telling me they have gone gluten free coz they were allergic to gluten

Less than 1% of people are allergic to gluten

But 100% of stupid people are allergic to gluten

Its a grest source of fibre helps give a healthy gut, reducing cancer and is a healthy source of carbs. Grains also feed beneficial gut bacteria.

eclectichoney · 14-03-2015 12:18am

There's a great blog post here on gluten by the always excellent Danny Lennon - well worth a read
http://sigmanutrition.com/gluten-revisited-can-i-eat-that-sandwich/

deisedude · 15-03-2015 11:06am

househero wrote: »

I have heard so many idiots telling me they have gone gluten free coz they were allergic to gluten

Less than 1% of people are allergic to gluten

But 100% of stupid people are allergic to gluten

Its a grest source of fibre helps give a healthy gut, reducing cancer and is a healthy source of carbs. Grains also feed beneficial gut bacteria.

Many people are intolerant to gluten. I'm not coeliac but there are a lot of people like me who suffer from IBS and eating gluten would make your life hell.

PeteFalk78 · 15-03-2015 11:14am

I've been diagnosed a coeliac for 3 years.

I've talked to numerous people who are gluten intolerant and eliminating gluten has improved their life immeasurably.

However the people who decide to go gluten-free as a fad really rot my snot.

clanpiper · 20-03-2015 4:44pm

Gluten intolerance was never intended to be a lifestyle choice. It is the name given to a severe medical condition that results in levels of pain and discomfort ranging from mild to excruciating.
If someone tells me they are on a gluten free diet I always ask them when they were diagnosed as Coeliac or gluten intolerant or if they have had a scope down their throat and found their Villi were abnormally short. If they haven't I tell them they are wasting their time as there are no benefits to refraining from gluten.
There is nothing healthier about refraining from eating gluten free products. Gluten is not an E Number, an additive, a preservative or flavouring.
If anything going 'gluten free' as a lifestyle choice merely restricts your choice of foods somewhat.

My wife has just got out of bed today after two days of excruciating abdominal pains, cramps and spasms that left her in tears.
She didn't eat anything containing gluten. We pinpointed it down to a casual error resulting in a minor cross-contamination.
If people want a healthier choice of foods speak to a nutritionist just don't think refraining from gluten will benefit you.

Tar.Aldarion · 21-03-2015 2:09am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oht9AEq1798

Gluten is fine for the vast majority, and the vast majority of people that think they have a problem with it. Blind case studies clearly show it's in those peoples heads and belittles people with these issues for real.

Blacktie. · 21-03-2015 10:39am

Longandgirthy wrote:

Gluten is proven harmful effects in humans. It contains anti nutrients and causes immune responses due lectins. There is growing evidence that it causes parkinson's diseases and other diseases similarly caused by the immune system. These are long term effects. You can't show these effects in short term studies.

A load of vitamins and nutrients are anti nutrients to other vitamins and minerals. If you can't show the effects then where is the evidence coming from?

Day Lewin · 21-03-2015 10:50am

I find it nearly impossible to believe that the staple food of Europe, which kept our ancestors alive for millennia, is actually a dietary poison now.

Sure enough, back in simpler times (when "bread" was a synonym for "food" or even "money") they were just using local wheat: not - (as now) - high-gluten imported Canadian wheat with EXTRA gluten added to strengthen the dough so it can rise when swiftly and tastelessly accelerated in a factory process.

And yes, if you were a Paleo Person for real, you most certainly would have found that the sweet, nutrient-dense seeds of the graminiae were sustaining and filling and healthy. They do have to be smashed up between two stones and baked over a fire, but then they are good eating.

Sit easy: bread is not poison unless you are coeliac or allergic, and most people aren't.

If worried, make your own bread out of local cereals and allow plenty of time for a slow rise. [the fermentation makes it more digestible, too]

Bon appétit!

Tar.Aldarion · 21-03-2015 11:22am

Longandgirthy wrote: »

Gluten is proven harmful effects in humans. It contains anti nutrients and causes immune responses due lectins. There is growing evidence that it causes parkinson's diseases and other diseases similarly caused by the immune system. These are long term effects. You can't show these effects in short term studies.

Regardless of whether long term use affects you or not, the current short term intolerance felt by people is nonsense, which is the point. If these people eat something they think has gluten in it suddenly they have headaches and all sorts, when in fact it is all mental as they ate no gluten. Just a scare that everybody goes along with and a placebo. Easy to scare people, hard to unscare them.

21-03-2015 11:25am

clanpiper wrote: »

Gluten intolerance was never intended to be a lifestyle choice. It is the name given to a severe medical condition that results in levels of pain and discomfort ranging from mild to excruciating.
If someone tells me they are on a gluten free diet I always ask them when they were diagnosed as Coeliac or gluten intolerant or if they have had a scope down their throat and found their Villi were abnormally short. If they haven't I tell them they are wasting their time as there are no benefits to refraining from gluten.

Well apart from not getting horrible nausea, crippling cramps, and the other side effects. Just because I can't be arsed having a yoke sent down my throat doesn't mean it doesnt make me sick

tails_naf · 21-03-2015 11:39am

My wife had multiple test for gluten allergy, including endoscopy, and all came up negative. however, there is no denying that after going gluten free her quality of life has improved, as she had digestion and gall bladder issues that have dramatically subsided since.

So perhaps the 1% stat is for a particular category of gluten related illness, but there could be a much higher percentage who are legitimately intolerant, and as a result much better off without gluten.

Its easy to dismiss if you have no issues with it yourself!

The Lazy Raptor · 21-03-2015 1:21pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Regardless of whether long term use affects you or not, the current short term intolerance felt by people is nonsense, which is the point. If these people eat something they think has gluten in it suddenly they have headaches and all sorts, when in fact it is all mental as they ate no gluten. Just a scare that everybody goes along with and a placebo. Easy to scare people, hard to unscare them.

The skeletons of hunter gathered who lived side by side with farmers has consistently shown that hunter gatherers were more healthy. They were bigger, had stronger skeletons and even showe'd almost no signs of tooth decay. The evidence against grains, gluten being amongst the worst, is very hard to deny.

Blacktie. · 21-03-2015 6:38pm

tails_naf wrote:

My wife had multiple test for gluten allergy, including endoscopy, and all came up negative. however, there is no denying that after going gluten free her quality of life has improved, as she had digestion and gall bladder issues that have dramatically subsided since.

Did you ever think that it's not the Gluten but something that generally goes along with Gluten that is the intolerance? Or that when you avoided Gluten you ate much healthier?

tails_naf · 21-03-2015 8:43pm

Blacktie. wrote: »

Did you ever think that it's not the Gluten but something that generally goes along with Gluten that is the intolerance? Or that when you avoided Gluten you ate much healthier?

Actually yes, that has crossed my mind many times. GF foods usually are less mass produced, and as a result less junk (food additives, etc). Either way, it works. It would be great to know if this is the case, if there was a way to find out!

feelgoodinc27 · 23-03-2015 8:04pm

The Lazy Raptor wrote: »

The skeletons of hunter gathered who lived side by side with farmers has consistently shown that hunter gatherers were more healthy. They were bigger, had stronger skeletons and even showe'd almost no signs of tooth decay. The evidence against grains, gluten being amongst the worst, is very hard to deny.

Yes it is, farming is a lot less demanding than a hunter gather lifestyle allowing "less healthy" people to survive.

jam_mac_jam · 24-03-2015 9:13pm

I feel much better when I don't eat wheat, I don't care if that makes me stupid, or fashionable. I am not in pain any more that's enough for me. I don't think I am allergic to gluten because I eat oats, I think I have a sensitivity to wheat.

For most people, you don't need to eliminate gluten or other grains. Bread and wheat is not really very nutritious, its like cake fine in moderation but don't fool yourself its a healthy food, its junk. There are much healthier grains.

smeal · 27-03-2015 11:16am

I am the exact same as jam_mac_jam above.

I have IBS and as a result, cut out wheat as best I can because I know it effects my symptoms. I have a friend who is an extreme coeliac and our symptoms when eating wheat are extremely different- the tiniest cross contamination with gluten and my friend is head over a toilet bowl and bed ridden sick for days where for me, a bowl of wholegrain pasta leaves me bloated for 2/3 days, tired and generally uncomfortable but never sick.

I gave up bread entirely over two years ago. I wouldn't have eaten it any more than the normal person in the first place (maybe a slice of toast for breakfast or a sandwich for lunch) and I lost over a stone within 3 months as a result. I don't eat that many gluten free products because as someone already said, they are packed with sugars and god knows what else- I mean, some of the breads keep for like 6 months?! Toxic! I do eat the gluten free corn pasta from Aldi though because it's cheap and doesn't go gloopy like other gf pastas.

I find living a gf diet is fairly easy when you're used to preparing meals from scratch. A lot of processed foods and sauce packets eg Knorr sachets are wheat based so some people may find it difficult to adapt at the start. I wouldn't recommend a gluten free diet for losing weight or a better lifestyle if you're planning on replacing everything with gluten/wheat with a gf processed version though! I mean eating a 6 pack of gf butterfly buns as opposed to a 6 pack of normal buns is going to have the same effect on your waist line!! Although, Super Valu do a great range of homemade gf cakes and biccies if you want to treat yourself

I do think it's a healthier lifestyle and even my mum says she wouldn't feel as bloated when she replaces wholegrain pasta with gf pasta. It annoys me when people say things like "oh you shouldn't cut out gluten unless you have to" or people who shrug it off as a fad diet.There definitely doesn't need to be a medical reason for doing so. Many people can't stomach wheat or gluten and this doesn't necessarily mean they have a serious medical condition. It's the same principle as people who just can't stomach spicy foods or tea/coffee.. A colleague of mine suffered heavy bloating and weight gain from eating dairy even though tests for intolerance came back negative! She cuts it out entirely and as a result lives more comfortably. Completely agree with someone above who said they aren't prepared to under-go scopes etc for someone to tell them they are intolerant to wheat. My doctor told me that in order to test for an intolerance I would need to eat as much wheat as possible for 6 weeks and then assess the effects- eh noooo.. Not prepared to put myself through 6 weeks of feeling like a blow fish to confirm my relationship with wheat!

There's a great book you can buy in Easons- it's called Wheat Belly by Dr William Davis and it's a great starting point for those who may think that wheat especially is having an effect on you. Would definitely recommend it

fungie · 27-03-2015 10:09pm

Boosroles wrote: »

The skeletons still remain and time and time again thee hunter gatherer skeletons prove that the hunnter gatherers were significantly healthier.

What was the average lifespan of a hunter gatherer again?

fungie · 27-03-2015 10:52pm

Boosroles wrote: »

The average lifespan assuming no birth deaths or injuries was about 70 I believe.

older than expected. Still, gluten is fine unless you have certain diagnosed medical conditions.

runawaybishop · 01-04-2015 10:24am

The Lazy Raptor wrote: »

The skeletons of hunter gathered who lived side by side with farmers has consistently shown that hunter gatherers were more healthy. They were bigger, had stronger skeletons and even showe'd almost no signs of tooth decay. The evidence against grains, gluten being amongst the worst, is very hard to deny.

Nonsense. Farming allowed greater age, which results in degenerating health and tooth decay.

nibz2015 · 13-07-2015 11:32pm

clanpiper wrote: »

Gluten intolerance was never intended to be a lifestyle choice. It is the name given to a severe medical condition that results in levels of pain and discomfort ranging from mild to excruciating.
If someone tells me they are on a gluten free diet I always ask them when they were diagnosed as Coeliac or gluten intolerant or if they have had a scope down their throat and found their Villi were abnormally short. If they haven't I tell them they are wasting their time as there are no benefits to refraining from gluten.
There is nothing healthier about refraining from eating gluten free products. Gluten is not an E Number, an additive, a preservative or flavouring.
If anything going 'gluten free' as a lifestyle choice merely restricts your choice of foods somewhat.

My wife has just got out of bed today after two days of excruciating abdominal pains, cramps and spasms that left her in tears.
She didn't eat anything containing gluten. We pinpointed it down to a casual error resulting in a minor cross-contamination.
If people want a healthier choice of foods speak to a nutritionist just don't think refraining from gluten will benefit you.

This is something that really really frustrated me when I was first became diagnosed as a Coeliac as it became more noticeable to me that people were just eating the GF food for 'clean eating' and 'healthy eating'...
its still a bugger and even a girl I was in college with questioned me (shes also diagnosed coeliac) why I was saying seeing 'Gluten Free' on the bulmers bottle was the bane of my life!
When i had the blood test done & it came back positive i was told to cut out gluten and start on the GF diet but then a few days later the person doing the scope to confirm told me to start eating gluten again for at least 4-6 weeks so it'd be a true result and it was the worst 4/5 weeks of my entire life spending hours upon hours in the bathroom... (currently been glutened so reliving that atm).
It's an awful pet hate of mine especially since its defiantly not a healthy diet of any sort so I was delighted to see your post on this topic and I'm not alone envious of these people who can go on the 'fad diet' and come off it whenever they please!

ch750536 · 14-07-2015 8:46am

The hunter gatherer of 10,000 years ago wouldn't be eating the same meat that we have today. Our meat has been bred to be more profitable for the supply chain which results in less nutritious for the consumer, fact.

The same is true with wheat products. Since bouncier dough demands a higher price the wheat we use is not what the ancestors of europe would have consumed. Gluten in modern wheat is 8 times higher than ancient or spelt wheat.

Most people who are intolerant of modern wheat products are not gluten intolerant when gluten is at normal natural '10,000 years ago' levels. They are intolerant at the extremely high, un-natural levels that we have today.

I fall into this category myself, proof is in the results. If I eat 4 slices of bouncy modern bread today I will be ill tonight. If I eat 4 slices of spelt bread I will be fine.

Deny this all you want, I see & feel the results.

runawaybishop · 14-07-2015 8:56am

ch750536 wrote: »

The hunter gatherer of 10,000 years ago wouldn't be eating the same meat that we have today. Our meat has been bred to be more profitable for the supply chain which results in less nutritious for the consumer, fact.

The same is true with wheat products. Since bouncier dough demands a higher price the wheat we use is not what the ancestors of europe would have consumed. Gluten in modern wheat is 8 times higher than ancient or spelt wheat.

Most people who are intolerant of modern wheat products are not gluten intolerant when gluten is at normal natural '10,000 years ago' levels. They are intolerant at the extremely high, un-natural levels that we have today.

I fall into this category myself, proof is in the results. If I eat 4 slices of bouncy modern bread today I will be ill tonight. If I eat 4 slices of spelt bread I will be fine.

Deny this all you want, I see & feel the results.

The hunter gather of 10,000 years ago would also probably be dead before he hits 30. We have evolved a lot since then and our guts have similarly changed. Just because someone did something a long time ago under different circumstances doesn't mean its directly applicable to modern humans. Anecdotal evidence isn't real evidence, no matter how great you may or may not feel after a sandwich.

I'd be interested to see why modern irish beef is less nutritious than cattle 10k years ago.

Tar.Aldarion · 14-07-2015 10:19am

runawaybishop wrote: »

The hunter gather of 10,000 years ago would also probably be dead before he hits 30. We have evolved a lot since then and our guts have similarly changed. Just because someone did something a long time ago under different circumstances doesn't mean its directly applicable to modern humans. Anecdotal evidence isn't real evidence, no matter how great you may or may not feel after a sandwich.

I'd be interested to see why modern irish beef is less nutritious than cattle 10k years ago.

I'm not sure if it's here or just in the US but I read recently that meat is now fortified with things like B12 due to the lowering quality and processing. However everything you read is US centric so.

ford2600 · 14-07-2015 10:51am

runawaybishop wrote: »

The hunter gather of 10,000 years ago would also probably be dead before he hits 30. We have evolved a lot since then and our guts have similarly changed. Just because someone did something a long time ago under different circumstances doesn't mean its directly applicable to modern humans. Anecdotal evidence isn't real evidence, no matter how great you may or may not feel after a sandwich.

I'd be interested to see why modern irish beef is less nutritious than cattle 10k years ago.

Basing a diet on what we think people ate 10,000 years ago is pretty fanicful, even if the foods they had available were still around.

I spent a few days with African hunter gatherer's and a few things stood out
*they all looked miserable
* when I got there they hadn't eaten in two days
* Killing wild animals which are afraid of you with only primitive weapons is really hard
* There was a lot of competition for the nuts, plants etc
* They were really vulnerable to disease, they covered themselves in smoke by fire at dawn and dusk time to keep away mosquitoes/malaria

As for Irish beef, it is probably as good a meat source as any along with lamb. I can buy Irish beef in many places with lots of confidence on health of animal; unless I shoot the deer myself I'm very reluctant to eat wild venison given the ignorance of your typical Irish deer stalker. The point being the modern processing of meat and disease control is a good thing in the main.

I'd be wary of lot fed beef, USA style, but the scientific evidence on fat profile etc is a little different but not compelling from what I can make out.

Irish mountain lamb is another excellent meat choice.

I know chicken is the meat choice most commonly reccommended on here which I always find strange.

feelgoodinc27 · 14-07-2015 11:27am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's here or just in the US but I read recently that meat is now fortified with things like B12 due to the lowering quality and processing. However everything you read is US centric so.

Sounds like the US for sure, cattle here would get minerals to counter deficiencies, I don't think they get vitamins unless there sick. With advances in nutrition and breeding the quality of meat is only improving I'd say.

ch750536 · 14-07-2015 7:40pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

The hunter gather of 10,000 years ago would also probably be dead before he hits 30. We have evolved a lot since then and our guts have similarly changed. ...

But the gluten levels in modern wheat has changed dramatically in 40 years, far too short to evolve around unless premature death is on a mass scale of course.

El_Dangeroso · 14-07-2015 8:09pm

I'd wager gluten intolerance is probably real, the science in the area is young but there are some blinded studies out there showing that some people who are coeliac negative have a bad reaction to gluten. From my own perspective, back in my low carb days I was trying to make some low carb bread rolls using vital wheat gluten powder and although it was possibly the nicest bread I've ever tasted, I was doubled over in pain 30 minutes later.

I'd also say a lot of people who give up wheat feel better because they are also cutting out fructans, which are a potent FODMAP that many people with IBS seem to react badly to.

As to why people have recently started reacting to a food that's been in our diet for ages: I read a compelling enough theory that iron fortification of wheat products messes with gut bacteria and this can lead to intolerance of otherwise healthy foods. The French don't fortify their wheat flour and seem to suffer far less intolerances to wheat.

One thing I will say is wheat flour is one of the most processed, bleached, additive ridden food stuffs and I can't really see the harm in chopping it out of the diet if it's not replaced with equally junk-y gluten free alternatives.

fungie · 14-07-2015 8:56pm

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I'd wager gluten intolerance is probably real, the science in the area is young but there are some blinded studies out there showing that some people who are coeliac negative have a bad reaction to gluten. From my own perspective, back in my low carb days I was trying to make some low carb bread rolls using vital wheat gluten powder and although it was possibly the nicest bread I've ever tasted, I was doubled over in pain 30 minutes later.

I'd also say a lot of people who give up wheat feel better because they are also cutting out fructans, which are a potent FODMAP that many people with IBS seem to react badly to.

As to why people have recently started reacting to a food that's been in our diet for ages: I read a compelling enough theory that iron fortification of wheat products messes with gut bacteria and this can lead to intolerance of otherwise healthy foods. The French don't fortify their wheat flour and seem to suffer far less intolerances to wheat.

One thing I will say is wheat flour is one of the most processed, bleached, additive ridden food stuffs and I can't really see the harm in chopping it out of the diet if it's not replaced with equally junk-y gluten free alternatives.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23648697

paper above claims that it doesnt exist. Seen it on IFL science a while back. its a well cited paper in a high impact journal. Another thing that puzzles me is how non celiac gluten intolerance is such a recent thing that only seems to affect middle class people, mainly women.

Tar.Aldarion · 14-07-2015 9:01pm

vital wheat gluten makes seitan, it shall never be cut, it's amazing and 80% protein deliciousness

I'm not sure if it's real or not but it's sure as hell not as prevalent as people make it out to be, seeing as I've seen studies where poeple are told tehy are eating gluten and then feel bad, and people with self-professed gluten intolerance eating it and no bad affects at all. Same as with MSG. Not saying it's not real, who knows but these days everybody thinks gluten is the devil.

El_Dangeroso · 14-07-2015 10:21pm

fungie wrote: »

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23648697

paper above claims that it doesnt exist. Seen it on IFL science a while back. its a well cited paper in a high impact journal. Another thing that puzzles me is how non celiac gluten intolerance is such a recent thing that only seems to affect middle class people, mainly women.

This double blind study says it does:

http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/v106/n3/abs/ajg2010487a.html

Like I said, the science is extremely young in this area, so it cannot be dismissed as yet. Are there people out there who are experiencing the placebo effect from cutting out gluten? Undoubtedly. But that does not mean there aren't people who are legitimately gluten sensitive.

looksee · 14-07-2015 10:37pm

I would love to not be bothered with gluten free, however I have come to the conclusion that it does affect me and I am better off without it. I really don't care what random people on the internet think or believe, if I feel better without it, then I will cut it out. I did think it was wheat that was the problem, but I am coming to the view that it is gluten. I will continue trying to figure it out but it is a slow process, I do not get violent results from gluten, and I am not celiac, but there is a difference without it.

I do agree that quite a lot of gluten-free stuff is syntho food and I am trying to avoid it. It is too easy to look for a substitute platform for protein, as in a sandwich. If you get away from that attitude and realise you do not have to have imitation bread, you can eat more healthily.

runawaybishop · 15-07-2015 2:06pm

ch750536 wrote: »

But the gluten levels in modern wheat has changed dramatically in 40 years, far too short to evolve around unless premature death is on a mass scale of course.

40 years is more than enough for the correct bacteria to be present in the gut for general digestive purposes, so you'd be looking at the wheat changing dynamically enough to cause medical issues, right?

How much more gluten does modern wheat have by the way, 10, 50, 100% more? Gluten is just a protein, its in a lot of things. Wheat has about 80% of its protein in gluten anyway so how much more does "modern" wheat have? Wheat has been systemically bred for favourable characteristics way more than 40 years - don't forget also that GM wheat is not grown for consumption commercially. So what is this strange "modern" wheat? Some strains have about 20-25% less zinc and copper in them, neither of which are even slightly linked to CD.

Gluten is just the new fad (for a lot of people, not all obv), just like fat and sugar. Do you remember all the hoo haa about MSG a while back - people claimed we weren't evolved to deal with it and by stopping it they didn't get any more headaches or bloating etc Turns out none of that was supported by science and doubleblind placebo studies agreed.

Cutting out gluten "works" simply because you an no longer eat that bowl of 150 grams of pasta, or eat 4 doughnuts at lunch, or have 10 chocolate biscuits with your tea - not surprising people dont feel bloated after throwing 900 calories into them in 3 minutes.

Tar.Aldarion · 15-07-2015 2:20pm

It's so easy to start these things, MSG scare was started by a lad saying he had a sore head, protein combining in a meal was started by somebody in a pro-vegetarian book and was redacted 35 years ago, yet is still around today and so on.

El_Dangeroso · 15-07-2015 2:27pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

It's so easy to start these things, MSG scare was started by a lad saying he had a sore head, protein combining in a meal was started by somebody in a pro-vegetarian book and was redacted 35 years ago, yet is still around today and so on.

Except that MSG didn't have double blind studies backing it up, gluten does have a few and who knows what the science over the next few years will bring.

I look upon it like lactose intolerance, some people for whatever reason don't have the correct digestive bacteria to tolerate gluten. Doesn't mean gluten is bad for everyone, but it's really arrogant to presume people are making it up or scoffing at them.

ch750536 · 15-07-2015 2:43pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

40 years is more than enough for the correct bacteria to be present in the gut for general digestive purposes, so you'd be looking at the wheat changing dynamically enough to cause medical issues, right?

It really isn't, don't know where you read that.

runawaybishop wrote: »

How much more gluten does modern wheat have by the way, 10, 50, 100% more? Gluten is just a protein, its in a lot of things.

Gluten in spelt wheat (ancient, triticum spelta) is soluble, gluten in modern wheat (triticum aestivum) is much less soluble. In 100ml of water 20g of wheat will result in 8 times as much gluten in the solution for spelt than modern. This passes safely through the system.

runawaybishop wrote: »

So what is this strange "modern" wheat?

triticum aestivum

runawaybishop wrote: »

Gluten is just the new fad ....Turns out none of that was supported by science and doubleblind placebo studies agreed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22825366

runawaybishop wrote: »

Cutting out gluten "works" simply because you an no longer eat that bowl of 150 grams of pasta, or eat 4 doughnuts at lunch, or have 10 chocolate biscuits with your tea - not surprising people dont feel bloated after throwing 900 calories into them in 3 minutes.

Wow. So you have fake gluten intolerance if you are a 'fat ass'. Pretty poor attitude.

runawaybishop · 15-07-2015 2:46pm

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Except that MSG didn't have double blind studies backing it up, gluten does have a few and who knows what the science over the next few years will bring.

I look upon it like lactose intolerance, some people for whatever reason don't have the correct digestive bacteria to tolerate gluten. Doesn't mean gluten is bad for everyone, but it's really arrogant to presume people are making it up or scoffing at them.

Can we just stop saying its definitely gluten, there are lots of different glutens. In CD its a very specific type of gluten in the majority of cases. You might as well say that its protein that may be causing these issues. Could it be an intolerance? perhaps - but why is this suddenly occurring in the last few years? Wheat hasn't really changed all that much recently.

Its far more likely the issues stem from overeating ****e food, not gluten. I doubt anyone is "making this up" rather than simply a case of correlation does not imply causation

Tar.Aldarion · 15-07-2015 2:48pm

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Except that MSG didn't have double blind studies backing it up, gluten does have a few and who knows what the science over the next few years will bring.

I look upon it like lactose intolerance, some people for whatever reason don't have the correct digestive bacteria to tolerate gluten. Doesn't mean gluten is bad for everyone, but it's really arrogant to presume people are making it up or scoffing at them.

Oh i think it's real all right (well something they are ingesting is making them feel bad and it seems to be something got to do with gluten).
My point was it doesn't matter if there are studies or not, with the general public it's "allll aboardddd"

There is clinical evidence (patients with symptoms after consumption)
There is laboratory and experimental evidence

what I think is overblown is all the self-diagnosis of people on terrible diets, I practically know nobody that has an OK diet, maybe 5% of people I know do, but they are always sure what is making them feel bad. Now that doesn't mean it is not real or that you don't feel bad from gluten, or anybody. I think it's a good thing for those with CD and intolerance (known as GS), they get a much better product range.

ch750536 · 15-07-2015 3:00pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

what I think is overblown is all the self-diagnosis of people on terrible diets, I practically know nobody that has an OK diet, maybe 5% of people I know do, but they are always sure what is making them feel bad.

I'm a nutrition student. I'm on 2100 calories per day which is always really well monitored. I don't eat processed foods, rarely eat out. Mostly organic local produce. If I eat 4 slices of supermarket bread it makes me ill. I'm not celiac.

runawaybishop · 15-07-2015 3:05pm

Split quotes

I'll just number stuff as its easier.

ch750536 wrote: »

1 It really isn't, don't know where you read that.

2 Gluten in spelt wheat (ancient, triticum spelta) is soluble, gluten in modern wheat (triticum aestivum) is much less soluble. In 100ml of water 20g of wheat will result in 8 times as much gluten in the solution for spelt than modern. This passes safely through the system.

3 triticum aestivum

4 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22825366

5 Wow. So you have fake gluten intolerance if you are a 'fat ass'. Pretty poor attitude.

1 - Gut bacteria are passed on from birth from the mother and environment. The gut flora to digest wheat and gluten would be present generally today. Even moderate changes would be made in a single generation.
2 - Thats solubility in water, not relevant. How much more gluten is in "modern" wheat?
3 - triticum aestivum is older than triticum aestivum actually, its around 9-10k years old and spelt is about 7-8k
4 - i was referring to MSG there, not gluten. But anyway - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23648697 - No effects of gluten in patients with self-reported non-celiac gluten sensitivity after dietary reduction of fermentable, poorly absorbed, short-chain carbohydrates.
5 - did I say that? A lot of ****ty foods are wheat and gluten based, cut them out and you feel better. Peopel also do not realise how calorie dense some fods, like biscuits, are.

Tar.Aldarion · 15-07-2015 3:14pm

ch750536 wrote: »

I'm a nutrition student. I'm on 2100 calories per day which is always really well monitored. I don't eat processed foods, rarely eat out. Mostly organic local produce. If I eat 4 slices of supermarket bread it makes me ill. I'm not celiac.

Yeah, I imagine it is real. There are three things:

Celiac disease (CD), Wheat allergy and Gluten sensitivity (GS). If you don't have CD you probably have one of the others (depending on what else is in the bread).

Akabusi · 15-07-2015 3:25pm

Why are people getting annoyed by what other people are or are not eating? I get it that going gluten free is a bit of a fad thing for most people but why does it bother people so much if someone decides to go gluten free? As other posters have pointed out they will either likely improve their diet or if they just substitute in processed gluten free food, then be a lot lighter of pocket. IMO more people eating Gluten free means the more choice actual celiac's have and that will lead to better value for GF foods.

My own story is that I have always suffered from heartburn and indigestion and was constantly chewing antacid tablets. I blamed sugary foods as Ketchup and rich foods were one of the worst things to set of heatburn. I lived with it and thought nothing of eating a few Rennie every day or slugging Gaviscon.

A couple of years ago I needed to loose a couple of Kgs for football and decided to give up wheat - that Wheat Belly book gave
me the idea to try it. It did help with the weight loss (I think mainly because I ate healthier) but had also had the extra benefit of curing my digestion problems. I have tried to stay of wheat since but every now and then I will eat it. I have found that when I eat it on occasion it has no bad effects but if I was to eat wheat for two consecutive days my heartburn would be back on the second day. When I'm eating out now i do not limit my choices but at home and work I will stay away from gluten so would only be consuming gluten maybe once a month now.

I must be in that category that has some sort of sensitivity to Gluten although I have no problem with oat gluten as I eat porridge daily without any bad affects.

This started as a fad diet for me and would have only last for a few weeks/months if it wasn't for the fact that I have never suffered from indigestion problems since.

El_Dangeroso · 15-07-2015 10:46pm

Akabusi wrote: »

It did help with the weight loss (I think mainly because I ate healthier) but had also had the extra benefit of curing my digestion problems. I have tried to stay of wheat since but every now and then I will eat it. I have found that when I eat it on occasion it has no bad effects but if I was to eat wheat for two consecutive days my heartburn would be back on the second day. When I'm eating out now i do not limit my choices but at home and work I will stay away from gluten so would only be consuming gluten maybe once a month now.

Actually in your case it sounds a lot more like fructan intolerance, heartburn is a dead giveaway as it's caused by improper fermentation producing gas that puts upward pressure on the stomach, forcing acid into the oesophagus.

Bottom like is you may tolerate spelt bread. Also be careful of excess garlic and onions (if you find you get a random attack- that might be a likely culprit)

El_Dangeroso · 15-07-2015 10:52pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Can we just stop saying its definitely gluten, there are lots of different glutens. In CD its a very specific type of gluten in the majority of cases. You might as well say that its protein that may be causing these issues. Could it be an intolerance? perhaps - but why is this suddenly occurring in the last few years? Wheat hasn't really changed all that much recently.

Its far more likely the issues stem from overeating ****e food, not gluten. I doubt anyone is "making this up" rather than simply a case of correlation does not imply causation

It's not just happening in the last few years though. Before people would just suffer though whatever symptoms they got and maybe took some medication to control the symptoms. It's just now some people have tried giving up gluten and it's improved their life (though I will say more often than not it's fructans or other fodmaps they were reacting to - whatever works right?). I don't know why people have such an issue with that.

Gluten Free

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