Dublin Directories

Hermy · 06-04-2014 10:30pm

My maternal great great grandfather Dr. James Pelly of Eyrecourt, Co. Galway was a younger brother of Cornelius Pelly. Dr. James died in 1878 in Eyrecourt and around about the turn of the century his wife Mary Frances Thomson took up residence in 56 Harcourt Street.
I believe Cornelius and his wife Jane O'Shaughnessy lived at 64 from the 1870's until the early 1900's before moving to Etwall 61 Lansdowne Road where they lived until his death in 1908.

Waitsian · 07-04-2014 7:47pm

Sansome wrote: »

Hermy - I happened on your post and am curious to know your connection to Cornelius Pelly of 64 Harcourt Street? He was my maternal great grandfather.

Hermy wrote: »

My maternal great great grandfather Dr. James Pelly of Eyrecourt, Co. Galway was a younger brother of Cornelius Pelly.

So you're cousins!

Sansome · 07-04-2014 8:46pm

Yes! We have been chatting outside here and we are third cousins once removed (I think!). We may be able to fill in each other's blanks in trees perhaps.

bartleby101 · 06-05-2014 8:19am

Hi there Shane,
Wondering if you could help me with Thoms entry search for Dublin in late 1940s/1950s. A relation had an antique shop in Liffey Street (Upper) - name may have been Kelly, Cullen, Deegan, Holloway. Father reckons the shop was close to/on site of Hector Grey's which I believe is No. 6 Upper Liffey Street.
Anything you could find would be great.
Cheers,

shanew · 06-05-2014 5:14pm

starting with 1949 - no sign of Hector Grey's at that stage on Upper Liffey St.. Just one Antique dealer, a Henry Naylor, dealer in Antiques at no. 8.

Several furniture dealers - Quinn (x2), Hanlon Fallon, Dunne

I think Hector Grey's might have switched from one side of the street to the other at some stage, there's a photo with the number showing as 26. Street numbers on Upr. Liffey St. run consecutively from no. one at the east side of the Abbey St. junction up to 16/17 at the Henry St junction and back down the west side, so 26 would be almost opposite no. 6.

Edit - just spotted Hector Grey, agent, at 57 Mid Abbey Street

shanew · 06-05-2014 9:52pm

1953 - Hector Grey agent, at no. 26 Upr. Liffey St. Henry Naylor dealer in antiques still at number 8, and now one other dealer in antiques, an Israel Cohen at no. 31.

In 1958, same details at 8 and 31 and Hector Grey now at 26 and no. 1. A few furniture dealers as per 1949 - Fallon (6), Hanlon (5), Dunne (14/15)

bartleby101 · 06-05-2014 10:40pm

Many thanks for this Shane, not the straightforward outcome I was hoping for (is it ever in the quest for ancestry??) but some great info to use to trigger my father's memory again. Cheers

Sansome · 20-05-2014 2:31pm

Shane, sorry to be sort of hijacking your thread but to get back to the Pellys of Harcourt Street talked about earlier, I have had a private message from a member annethaway and I find I can't reply privately because I have not made 25 posts here. Annethaway - would love to answer you but I can't in detail at the moment. If you want to find me another way, try Sansome House Cottage for a contact form on my website and I will try and help.

Berndadette · 20-05-2014 10:00pm

Hi Shane,

I wonder if you could help me by looking up Thoms Street Directory - for the years 1931, 1932, 1950, and 1951. I need to know who was the occupier (or Rate Holder) for number 73 Lindsay Road, Glasnevin for each of those years.

Hope you can help. I'm stuck in the far south of the country, with no access to these Dublin directories.

Here's hoping! Many thanks.

shanew · 20-05-2014 10:17pm

closest I have are 1930, 1938, 1949 and 1953...

Lindsay Road, Glasnevin from Botanic Road to Upper Columba's Road - No. 73

1930 - Mrs. Isabela Hackett
1938 - Mrs. Elizabeth Richards
1949 - Mrs. Elizabeth Richards
1953 - Michael O'Hara

Berndadette · 24-05-2014 10:56pm

I am very grateful for your information shanew.
The years you give are fine - they give me the information I need.
Sorry for delay in getting back to you - I had trouble signing in!
Again, many thanks.

Hugob268 · 28-08-2014 5:17pm

Hi Shane

In your Thoms collection, I wonder if you might be able to tell me who was living at 37 Blackhall Place (Arran Quay area) between 1911 where my Gt Uncle lived until his death in 1917.

Then for 31 Blackhall Place1915 onwards where my 1st cousin (once removed) his son, lived and raised his family (five 2nd cousins) at least until when the last child was born.

The family name should be McGee or Magee.

Many thanks

Stuart

shanew · 28-08-2014 5:52pm

principle occupants listed for those addresses

31 Blackhall Place
1914 - numbers skip from 30, P. Burke dairy to 34, Mrs. Dixon
1917 - M. Boylan
The same detail for no. 31 in every listing up to 1958
1962 - Mary Kelly

No. 31 is on the west side of the street, half way between the junctions with Benburb St. and Hendrick place.

37 Blackhall Place
1914 - John Kenny
1917 onwards - no.s 32 to 46, listed as '8 cottages' (next to jct with Blackhall St.)

I've have a look for McGee or Magee on the street...

shanew · 28-08-2014 6:08pm

I suspect that maybe No. 31 was divided up in to tenements or flats which would explain why just M. Boylan is listed. I can only find three addresses for Blackhall place on the 1939 Electoral List for the city at the moment - not sure why.

Hugob268 · 29-08-2014 7:39am

Shane very many thanks for your quick reply.
I wonder where they went from there?
Migrated?

Stuart

Hermy · 21-09-2014 12:13am

shanew wrote: »

no sign of a Mr. Monks, unfortunately. Looks like Mary may have already been a widow when she moved to Convent Rd. I dont see any likely male Monks deaths of the right sort of age and timeframe in Rathdown district.

same listing for Convent rd. in 1891 as for 1894. 1885 has a Patrick Curtis at No. 7

Bit of an update - Mary's maiden name was Curtis so that 1885 reference is quite relevant after all.

Also I have a burial record from Glasnevin Trust for a John Monks of 9 Grattan Court which I think may be her husband. Combined with a few other records the picture looks about right though still a bit vague to be able to say for certain.

Could I trouble you again Shane to check Grattan Court for anyone by the name of Monks living there?

Hermy · 21-09-2014 10:46am

shanew wrote: »

I suspect the informant for her death will be her grandchild Margaret, but might be worth checking in case a cert mentions anything useful like an informant, or her 'occupation' in terms of her husband e.g. as 'widow of farmer' etc

Mary's death cert records that her sister Julia Hackett nee Curtis was present at death which has spread new light on the subject.

If everything checks out I might finally be able to say from where my Monks ancestors hailed - namely the south inner city.

shanew · 21-09-2014 10:46am

I'm not seeing a street listing for Grattan Court in 1885 - is that the correct timeframe ?

The street index mentions Grattan Court and being off Grattan St., and the street has a listing, although it doesn't mention a junction with the court. Might be too minor a street for a listing at that time...

The 1914 listing shows a Grattan Court but it's the one off Thomas St.

Hermy · 21-09-2014 11:14am

shanew wrote: »

I'm not seeing a street listing for Grattan Court in 1885 - is that the correct timeframe ?

The street index mentions Grattan Court and being off Grattan St., and the street has a listing, although it doesn't mention a junction with the court. Might be too minor a street for a listing at that time...

The 1914 listing shows a Grattan Court but it's the one off Thomas St.

The burial record for John Monks is from 1853.
I did not know there was a second Grattan Court - I'm assuming that the burial record is referring to the one off Mount Street as this ties in with the other addresses mentioned in the burial record - Bath Avenue, Beggars Bush and Powers Court.
However it also mentions a Thomas Court - is there a Thomas Court off Mount Street or just the one off Thomas Street me wonders?

EDIT: I can answer my own question as the 1901 Census lists a Thomas Court in South Dock.

shanew · 21-09-2014 11:48am

this is the Grattan Court mentioned in the street index - off Grattan Street, which runs between Grand Canal Street and Lwr. Mount Street.

They should be different sub-districts of Dublin south on a cert. These changed a little over time but by the mid to late 1800s the Grattan Court near Grand Canal Dock would have been South City No. 4 (East) and the one off Thomas in South City No. 1 (West).

salmocab · 21-09-2014 11:56am

Hi not sure if you can help but would love to find out what the street was called that is now constitution hill my father grew up directly across from mc Gowans pub but he doesn't know what the road was called previously which makes it difficult to look up on the census. I know this isn't quite what you are doing here but if you had any idea it would be greatly appreciated.

Hermy · 21-09-2014 12:02pm

I think Constitutiuon Hill only goes as far as the bus depot and then it's Phibsborough Road that passes McGowans.

see link

salmocab · 21-09-2014 12:08pm

Thanks for that, had a look and I see what you mean he always says constitution hill but that could just be a local thing, I'll try phibsborough road on the 1901 census.

shanew · 21-09-2014 12:10pm

salmocab wrote: »

Hi not sure if you can help but would love to find out what the street was called that is now constitution hill my father grew up directly across from mc Gowans pub but he doesn't know what the road was called previously which makes it difficult to look up on the census. I know this isn't quite what you are doing here but if you had any idea it would be greatly appreciated.

McGowans appears to be on part of Royal Canal Terrace - here - just at the start of Phibsborough Rd

salmocab · 21-09-2014 12:34pm

shanew wrote: »

McGowans appears to be on part of Royal Canal Terrace - here - just at the start of Phibsborough Rd

Thanks can't find them on the census at any of those streets but sure I'll question the aul fella during the week and see if he has any other ideas.

shanew · 21-09-2014 3:01pm

The numbers seem to have stayed the same as they were back in 1910 or so, the Phibsborough Rd. street numbers opposite McGowans, i.e. east-side, are in the 200s, increasing as they go south, running from 211 at Kellys Lane/Phibsborough Place, 222/223 Foster Cottages, 231/232 at the White' lane jct and ending in 240 near the Dominick Street jct.

edit : as a starting point here's Edward Cummins at #238, Phibsborough Rd. (the street number, enumerator reference and directory listing match)

shanew · 21-09-2014 3:28pm

From 1953 J. McGowan is listed as Grocer & Wine Merch. at No.18 Phibsborough Rd., before that the surnames include Cooney (1949), Lawler (1943) and Maguire 1910 & 1911

salmocab · 21-09-2014 6:42pm

Thanks again, I had a mooch around and found a kavanagh family on great britain street in 1911 with the right fathers name, Patrick and his children's names include Hugh and Angela which are my dads and aunts name, although this would be his father and aunt but it must be the right family as it would be a strange coincidence if it was a different family with the same names. I'm very interested now as I had a look before but couldn't find anything but I'm sure I'm on the right track. I rang him and he lived in 222A phibsborough road when he was born in 1941. He also claims his grandfather Patrick was interred by the British after the rising and I would love to follow that up as I'm sure half the people in Dublin at the time later made that claim and I'm really not sure if its true would you have any idea where I might look for that information?

littlealison · 27-11-2014 8:44pm

Hello Shane. (Thanks again for previous help!)
I am now looking for a man called Michael Andrews, ivory turner, in Dublin (most likely) who may be connected with my gggrandfather John Andrews. I've traced him from 1783 to 1820 in available directories, mostly at several addresses in Gt Britain St. At this point he vanishes.
No birth, marriage or family identified. Or other occupation....

However in 1832, not before that I can find, my gggrandfather appears as an ivory turner - in Gt Britain St.
I have traced him through directories from birth 1810 to death in 1893, and a Schultz marriage record in 1828.
If he did an apprenticeship as ivory turner, this would only fit in in 1823-28, as far as I know! Might he have apprenticed to Michael Andrews, a possible relation?

I'm also STILL looking for John's father.......family story he's John as well, only birth found 1810 is Nicholas Andrews.

Just looking for a little more info!

shanew · 01-12-2014 2:51pm

littlealison wrote: »

...I am now looking for a man called Michael Andrews, ivory turner, in Dublin (most likely) who may be connected with my gggrandfather John Andrews. I've traced him from 1783 to 1820 in available directories, mostly at several addresses in Gt Britain St. At this point he vanishes....However in 1832, not before that I can find, my gggrandfather appears as an ivory turner - in Gt Britain St....

I dont think I can add anything to the directory entries you've already found, presumably on FMP..

I can see that Michael Andrews Ivory Turner at 171 or 180 Gt;. Britain Street in the early 1800s, but then no sign after abt 1818. I dont see any listing for him before 1812.

I'd a little vary of that 1783 Wilson's directory entry, as there's quite a gap back to it, and no common address or trade, so might possibly be related at some point but wouldn't be at all convinced it's the same Michael as shown in 1812.

littlealison · 01-12-2014 4:11pm

I found him as Andres, Michael in 1820....
I have a big suspicion that the two are related....but maybe will never know.

You could be right about the 1783 record, or he may be older than we think?
Thanks for having a go anyway Shane!

Perhaps there will be new records online down the road.

tenterfields · 09-03-2015 11:28pm

Hi Shane

I'm looking for any information you can supply from the directories on 26 Rutland Square, Dublin around 1908. I think it might have been some kind of boarding house or residence for young women.
Much obliged
Tenterfields

KildareFan · 09-03-2015 11:45pm

Ms K Hayes, Superintendents apartments was listed at 26 Rutland Square in the 1908 electoral register:
http://www.dublinheritage.ie/burgesses/viewdoc.php?burgessid=10137&djvupath=imagefiles&orderby=001288&imagefile=BR.1908.1288.jpg

shanew · 09-03-2015 11:59pm

tenterfields wrote: »

....I'm looking for any information you can supply from the directories on 26 Rutland Square, Dublin around 1908.

Thom's 1906

26 is on Rutland Sq. North
Young Women's Christian Association and Home, Miss K. Hayes, lady superintendent

edit : changed to Solicitor dept., Congested District board by 1914

tenterfields · 10-03-2015 10:46am

Kildarefan and Shane
Many thanks. That answers the question comprehensively.

Hermy · 24-03-2015 1:28am

Shane,

Another one for you to check if you don't mind. I'm wondering who or what was at 90 George's Street South Great in about 1870.

Cheers.

shanew · 24-03-2015 8:37am

Hermy wrote: »

...Another one for you to check if you don't mind. I'm wondering who or what was at 90 George's Street South Great in about 1870.
..

1869 : 90 George's Street, Grt. Sth .
John V. Traynor, brush manuf. and importer - res. Terenure house, Kimmage Road., Roundtown

Roundtown, Kimmage Rd. - Jos. Traynor esq., Terenure villa

Hermy · 24-03-2015 10:15am

That's great Shane. I should have known that but it was late and I didn't make the connection.

Joseph Traynor is father-in-law of my g-g-grandfather Ignatius Moore of Newcastle House.
John V. Traynor is Joseph's son who took over the running of the family business.
Family lore had it that Ignatius sailed for South America to seek his fortune and was never heard from again so beyond his marriage and the births of his children I knew very little about him. Recently for pig iron I Googled his name and this website caught my eye. I contacted the person running the site and she sent me two letters from the US consulate in Dublin to the Governor and Mayor of Colorado respectively. The details matched but there was no mention of Newcastle House or anything else that might make the connection definite. Then last night I found an entry in the Irish Newspaper Archive which may be the confirmation I was looking for. An Eliza Moore of 90 George's Street looking for any information on an Ignatius Moore who left Dublin for America in 1865 [American papers please copy].

Coolnabacky1873 · 30-03-2015 7:34pm

Hermy wrote: »

Then last night I found an entry in the Irish Newspaper Archive which may be the confirmation I was looking for. An Eliza Moore of 90 George's Street looking for any information on an Ignatius Moore who left Dublin for America in 1865 [American papers please copy].

Hermy, what paper was this notice in? Date too, please, if you have it.

Hermy · 31-03-2015 12:36am

Front page of The Nation 3 Sep 1870.

I think it also appeared in another paper but not sure which one.

Jellybaby1 · 31-03-2015 10:58am

I have seen that type of notice before and often wondered how many replies might have been received!

Hermy · 23-10-2015 11:08pm

A general enquiry if I may...

Does anyone know if Thom's have a recent street directory for Waterford similar to what's currently available for Dublin?

nikonuser · 24-10-2015 8:54am

Shane, you seem to have been inundated with requests for Thom’s searches.

Any chance of checking one for me? I have been told that Lord Pembroke gave a ‘grant of land’ to my GG Granddad & another man to build houses in Barrow Street (opposite Google now) in the 1840’s. 10 houses I think. My GG Grandad got 4 to keep as did the other man & the Lord kept two. My GG Grandad was Patrick Dodd, possibly he got 2, 5, 9 & 10. Would Thom’s narrow down the timescale as to when these houses were built? And who was the other man? Any help would be great.

As an aside, Patrick Dodd, in his 70’s married my GG Granny Elizabeth Meroe (from my India Connection thread), she was listed as ‘Minor’ on the marriage cert.

Thanks, J

shanew · 24-10-2015 9:50am

Hermy wrote: »

A general enquiry if I may...

Does anyone know if Thom's have a recent street directory for Waterford similar to what's currently available for Dublin?

most recent one I have is 1943/44 - a listing by trades for towns and cities.

inc. Waterford city, Dungarvan, Tramore, Lismore etc

shanew · 24-10-2015 9:56am

nikonuser wrote: »

....I have been told that Lord Pembroke gave a ‘grant of land’ to my GG Granddad & another man to build houses in Barrow Street (opposite Google now) in the 1840’s. 10 houses I think. My GG Grandad got 4 to keep as did the other man & the Lord kept two. My GG Grandad was Patrick Dodd, possibly he got 2, 5, 9 & 10. Would Thom’s narrow down the timescale as to when these houses were built? And who was the other man? .....

Thom's started publishing in 1844 - first one I have is 1848. Will check that and later editions for possible details..

The Street listing from Pettigrew and Oulton's Directory (pub. from 1834 up to the late ~1840s) of 1840 and 1834 includes Barrow Street, but only shows a lime kiln and ship-builder.

Directory listings would generally show occupant or business owner, rather than landlord or owner.

nikonuser · 24-10-2015 10:19am

Shane, I have been told that it was mid-1840's when the houses that are presently there were built. I know he rented out 3 of the 4 houses. He was a 'fitter' in some of the documentation I have and his son worked at ship building in the late 1800's early 1900's so maybe you have uncovered another avenue for me. Any more clues would be great. Cheers, J

shanew · 24-10-2015 4:03pm

The extra houses start to appear between 1842 and 1845 (P & O), and numbers appear in the 1847 edition (P & O), and these appear to be tidied up by 1848 (Thom) :

1842

2 & 3 Messer. Hasting & Carter Dock floor mill and stores
Austin Ward, lime kiln
Robert Morton, river pilot

1845

2 & 3 Messer. Hasting & Carter Dock floor mill and stores
Austin Ward, lime kiln
Mr. Thomas Fisher
Robert Morton, river pilot
Mr. Martin Morris
John Mann, engineer
Peter Byrne, carpenter

1847

1 Robert Morton, river pilot
2 Mr. George Saunders
Austin Ward, lime works
Hasting & Carter Dock floor mill and stores
1 Peter Byrne, carpenter
2 vacant
3 Mr. Martin Morris
4 Mr. Henry Bates
5 Mr. Patrick Dodd
6 Mr. John Byrne

1848

1 Peter Byrne, carpenter
2 Mr. John Dunne
3 Mr. Martin Morris
4 Mr. Henry Bates, printer
5 Mr. Patrick Dodd
6 Mrs. Byrne
7 & 8 Hasting & Carter, oatmeal & flor millers, & F. Docks
9 Austin Ward, lime kiln
... here Kingstown Railway intersects....

shanew · 24-10-2015 4:16pm

Griffith's Valuation for this area is dated 1854 (pub. 16 Feb 1854) and it shows the following as immediate lessors of property on Barrow St. at that time - Henry Courtney, Mrs. Morton, Austin Ward, Grand Canal Company and Hastings & Carter. (St. Mark c.p. and Barrow Street comes under Co. Dublin on AskAboutIreland)

edit : Patrick Dodd also appears at No. 5 in the 1850 and 1852 listings. The 1858 edition lists 1 to 6 as simply 'cottages' with no names, along with three businesses - two mills & a limeworks

nikonuser · 24-10-2015 8:10pm

Shane, thanks for that.
It would appear that the story of my GG Granddad & another man building Barrow St may not add up so. I do know that he did eventually own 4 houses there: 2, 5, 9 & 10 and while he lived in no 5 he rented out the others to lodgers. That is the reason he met my GG Granny (Eliz Meroe), she worked for him looking after the lodgers (they marries in 1882). The development of Barrow St as listed in your quoted directories is at odds with family lore. Not unusual.

Any suggestions on how to further the story?

Again thanks, J

shanew · 24-10-2015 8:25pm

Valuation Office is the place to follow this up with Cancelled Land Books. These are the Re-Valuations that continued on after Griffith's up to the 20thC - 1970s for some areas. They include they same sort of details as the primary Valuation and record changes to occupier and immediate lessor or owner with overstriking and different coloured ink, generally soon after they occur.. They also note significant changes to buildings. There are separate books for each Electoral district and a new volume about every 10 or 15 years. Within the books they are usually divided by civil parish and then townland or street.

You can see examples of revaluation Books on the PRONI site

Dublin Directories

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