Time To End Internment - Release Marian Price and Martin Corey

fasttalkerchat · 20-05-2012 12:38am

lividduck wrote: »

NO!
She is a lowlife murdering bitch who was wrongly relaeased on licience after being properly sentenced to life imprisonment, he licience has been rightly revoked, we can only hope that no politican is ever stupid enough to release this murdering waste of oxygen again.

Catch yourself on! I'm sick of people like you coming and calling people every name under the sun when you clearly know nothing about Marian or her case.

Almost all POWs were released and if she was a Sinn Feinner she would still be free. Take your "lowlife murdering bitch" comments elsewhere.

Fenian Army · 20-05-2012 1:01am

oscarBravo wrote: »

Do you have an objective source for that?

I believe I linked some news stories earlier... they report that she received a royal pardon. This is beyond doubt, the question is over what exactly this covered, she got multiple life sentences or something like that to be served concurrently, did it cover one, and was she on license for the other charges? Can't tell because the document "vanished" :rolleyes:

K-9 · 20-05-2012 1:53am

lividduck will not be replying lividly for the next week. Please keep the discussion civil.

Terrontress · 20-05-2012 7:49am

I hope the irony isn't lost on Price that she and her supporters are pointing to a 'royal pardon' to make all her woes cease. Which 'royal' issued this pardon? Prince Philip? He's been known for his strange behaviour. Could he not be asked to re-issue it? Maybe with the jubilee celebrations the queen might be in a good enough mood to issue one.

Those who claim she was jailed for simply holding a piece of paper are deliberately trying to simplify Price's actions. Just as an IRA getaway driver would not have been jailed for driving a car. She is attempting to bring violent harm to the British people and those people are excluding her from society to prevent her bringing that harm about.

For those who claim she is being incarcerated without any justification, what would you suggest the motivation is behind her incarceration? Point scoring? And if so, why her? The fact is she has got too big for her boots, crossed the line and is now facing the consequences.

Finally, those who claim she is being 'interned', all prisoners are interned. It is a synonym of incarceration. I think 'internment without trial' is the expression you are thinking of. Although Price was tried.

oscarBravo · 20-05-2012 9:49am

Fenian Army wrote: »

I believe I linked some news stories earlier... they report that she received a royal pardon.

You linked to Sinn Féin websites and An Phoblacht. You also linked the SDLP websites, which explicitly refers to a revoked licence, not a pardon.

This is beyond doubt...

If it was beyond doubt, I wouldn't doubt it. The issuing of a royal pardon is generally a pretty big deal, and there should be contemporaneous press coverage of the fact that it happened. Can you link to any?

Can you at least explain why HRM decided to pardon Ms Price?

johnnyskeleton · 20-05-2012 10:27am

Fenian Army wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would hazard a guess and say the reason mainstream nationalism is not bringing up her case us because she blatantly broke the terms of her release and her licence has been revoked.

She has become an embarrassment.

"Mainstream nationalism"?

SF have brought up her case numerous times. Even the stoops have.

How can she have had her license revoked when she was never released on license? She was pardoned. The Brits have mysteriously lost the document, as I understand it it is the first time in a very very very long time they have lost a pardon.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22947
http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/news/21433
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/21871
http://www.sdlp.ie/index.php/newsroom_media/newsarticle/ramsey_presses_justice_minister_to_release_marian_price/

That said she is not happy with SF to say the least and has refused to meet with their reps.

If she was pardoned, she could bring a habeas corpus application and be released straight away.

However, even the SF reports you cite make it clear that she was not pardoned but released under royal perrogative of mercy, that is She was released on licence due to her ill health. However, if you think it amounts to a pardon, why not fly over to London, make a habeas application and you will be a republican hero?

To clarify, the royal perrogative is not limited to absolute pardons but can also amount to a basis to commute or suspend a sentence. Obviously this can be done on terms.

So, your question is wrong in that you have not recited the correct facts. Her licence has been revoked, even SF accept that.

Fenian Army · 20-05-2012 11:47am

oscarBravo wrote: »

You linked to Sinn Féin websites and An Phoblacht. You also linked the SDLP websites, which explicitly refers to a revoked licence, not a pardon. If it was beyond doubt, I wouldn't doubt it. The issuing of a royal pardon is generally a pretty big deal, and there should be contemporaneous press coverage of the fact that it happened. Can you link to any?

Can you at least explain why HRM decided to pardon Ms Price?

She was close to death.

She spent hundreds of days on hunger strike during which she was forced fed etc.

Fenian Army · 20-05-2012 11:48am

Terrontress wrote: »

I hope the irony isn't lost on Price that she and her supporters are pointing to a 'royal pardon' to make all her woes cease. Which 'royal' issued this pardon? Prince Philip? He's been known for his strange behaviour. Could he not be asked to re-issue it? Maybe with the jubilee celebrations the queen might be in a good enough mood to issue one.

Those who claim she was jailed for simply holding a piece of paper are deliberately trying to simplify Price's actions. Just as an IRA getaway driver would not have been jailed for driving a car. She is attempting to bring violent harm to the British people and those people are excluding her from society to prevent her bringing that harm about.

For those who claim she is being incarcerated without any justification, what would you suggest the motivation is behind her incarceration? Point scoring? And if so, why her? The fact is she has got too big for her boots, crossed the line and is now facing the consequences.

Finally, those who claim she is being 'interned', all prisoners are interned. It is a synonym of incarceration. I think 'internment without trial' is the expression you are thinking of. Although Price was tried.

Charges relating to that have been dismissed. Besides, she got bail after she was charged with that.

Fenian Army · 20-05-2012 11:50am

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311959863.html

fasttalkerchat · 20-05-2012 12:07pm

She should have been released legally but Owen Patterson intervened. Now she is being held on the seemingly blanket charge relating to Massareene. No evidence linking her to this was made available and as soon as this is thrown out of court, Patterson will have her rearrested and held for something else.
The last time something like this happened diplock judges were executed because their was no way politically or legally oppose what was happening.

johnnyskeleton · 20-05-2012 1:13pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311959863.html

They should have brought a habeas corpus rather than JR. In JR they have to prove the decision was wrong, in a habeas, the State have to prove that the detention was lawful. If they don't have any documents about her being released then they can't prove that she was released on licence or what the terms of that licence were.

But again, it is presumably something that the Home Office will have a copy of, they tend to keep record of such things.

oscarBravo · 20-05-2012 2:34pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311959863.html

Price’s lawyers say that it is unreasonable to expect her to have retained a legal document from 30 years ago and that the fact that she didn’t should not be used against her.

Yeah, if I had received a royal pardon that guaranteed my freedom, I'd probably shred it the next day. Why would you want to hold on to something like that?

That article makes it clear that there are two conflicting claims. It's evidence of disagreement, not evidence of the truth of either claim. And yet, you and others clearly believe - with unshakable conviction - that her side of the story is the only possible truth.

That sounds like confirmation bias to me - you choose to believe things that support your existing beliefs, and to deny things that contradict them - but if there's any actual evidence to support her claim, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Pand · 21-05-2012 2:27pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yeah, if I had received a royal pardon that guaranteed my freedom, I'd probably shred it the next day. Why would you want to hold on to something like that?

Surely you think the proof of existence of an important legal document like a Royal Pardon would be less likely to be "lost or shredded" by the Northern Ireland Office than by an individual who for all means and purposes should't require it anymore? But then I suppose, a lot of documents went missing in those days

Fenian Army · 26-05-2012 1:08am

Some might have noticed that he was released on compassionate grounds to attend his brothers funeral on condition he was accompanied by two senior SF figures.

Corey released to attend brother’s funeral

Published on Friday 25 May 2012 10:26

LURGAN republican Martin Corey was allowed temporary release to attend his brother’s funeral on Thursday after originally being barred from doing so.

http://www.lurganmail.co.uk/news/local/corey-released-to-attend-brother-s-funeral-1-3882130

Martin Corey's imprisonment is in my opinion the greatest injustice of the post GFA era. He was imprisoned for life for killing two RUC men and spent twenty years behind bars, he was released in 1992.

However in 2010 the Brit Secretary of State revoked his license, why? Here's the kicker, he won't say. Merely said it was "closed material". This means that Martin can't appeal to get the decision judicially reviewed because he doesn't know why he is in jail. No charges, nothing.

This is a disgraceful violation of his human rights. Human rights are universal, otherwise they mean nothing, they can't be applied selectively.

Is a despicable situation where a man can be imprisoned and not even a reason given.

bon ami · 26-05-2012 5:22am

"Human rights are universal, otherwise they mean nothing, they can't be applied selectively"

Could not agree more Human rights are universal. OOPs did he deny the two RUC men the most basic human right when he murdered them?

round tower huntsman · 26-05-2012 9:09am

ah yes the auld mitchell principles again! he is being held like marian cos his views are anti establishment, tow the line or else.............shamefull reallly that pfs support such things.

Rebelheart · 26-05-2012 12:46pm

Was I the only one to think this thread was about Martin Corry? (for those of you who never heard of him a quick perusal of that page will give you an idea of his, em, interesting solutions to British occupation)

Two IRA men with strikingly similar names. What are the odds!

Fenian Army · 26-05-2012 1:30pm

bon ami wrote: »

"Human rights are universal, otherwise they mean nothing, they can't be applied selectively"

Could not agree more Human rights are universal. OOPs did he deny the two RUC men the most basic human right when he murdered them?

This is a rather pointless road to go down...

You could say the those RUC men and their organization collectively denied the rights of tens of thousands of people. As I said a rather pointless side track. But if an ex RUC man was imprisoned, or a loyalist, Unionist, fascist or whatever was imprisoned under the same circumstances as Martin Corey I would call for their release because their incarceration is an unjust one. Imprisoning someone and not even giving a reason is something which should not be allowed. The licensing system is being blatantly abused by a political figure, for political reasons. In a free society that should not happen.

Seen as I am a republican obviously I'd be more familiar with Martin Corey's case, but if you know of others imprisoned in the same manner I'd love to know of them.

The thing with human rights you see is that they don't apply only if a person lived a "good" life.

Fenian Army · 26-05-2012 6:10pm

Good to hear Gerry Adams expressly call for her immediate release in his presidential address.

Fenian Army · 26-05-2012 6:15pm

The British Secretary of State has also made a number of unhelpful and unwarranted interventions, including his decision to revoke the licences of Martin Corey and Marian Price.

The British Secretary of State should go back to England where he belongs.

Marion Price and Martin Corey and Gerry McGeough, should be released immediately.

From Gerry Adams presidential address at the SF Ard Fheis

fasttalkerchat · 26-05-2012 6:33pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

Good to hear Gerry Adams expressly call for her immediate release in his presidential address.

It is good but it came much too late.

round tower huntsman · 26-05-2012 7:47pm

better late then never, them political prisionors have been interned for over a yr each and only now beardy speaks out:rolleyes: he's been shamed into speaking out imo. psf were looking very badly out of all this,especially to grassroots.

round tower huntsman · 26-05-2012 7:49pm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

It is good but it came much too late.

tbh its way way too late. its a face saving exercise by beardy cos psf were looking pretty bad on this one. he been shamed into speaking out really.

Fenian Army · 26-05-2012 7:53pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

tbh its way way too late. its a face saving exercise by beardy cos psf were looking pretty bad on this one. he been shamed into speaking out really.

I'd view it as a positive tbh, I dont know if he would speak out like this if he wasnt confident on movement... or maybe SF have just got fed up with the softly softly approach.

Either way I think republicans should focus on the prisoners rather than giving out about who should have done what and when. I agree it should have happened sooner, but the important thing is that it has. Its a positive development and should be welcomed as such.

round tower huntsman · 26-05-2012 7:57pm

"softly softly approach":rolleyes: come on seriously like is that what they've been at.

getzls · 26-05-2012 11:16pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

Good to hear Gerry Adams expressly call for her immediate release in his presidential address.

You don't say! Old team mates eh?

SocSocPol · 27-05-2012 12:37pm

My own view is that people like her who have both used terrorism and expouse terrorism should be confined.
There is no place in a civilised society for the likes of her and her fellow travellers.

SocSocPol · 27-05-2012 12:41pm

The best place for murderers and terrorists is in jail, what reasonable person could disagree.

fasttalkerchat · 27-05-2012 1:19pm

SocSocPol wrote: »

My own view is that people like her who have both used terrorism and expouse terrorism should be confined.
There is no place in a civilised society for the likes of her and her fellow travellers.

So lock up everyone who doesn't oppose armed struggle?

SocSocPol · 27-05-2012 5:10pm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

So lock up everyone who doesn't oppose armed struggle?

Don't be so silly, I said those who have used and expoused the use of terrorism deserve to be in prison.
I for one am quite happy to see this woman stay behind bars rather than have her running around inciting terrorism.

fasttalkerchat · 27-05-2012 5:34pm

SocSocPol wrote: »

Don't be so silly, I said those who have used and expoused the use of terrorism deserve to be in prison.
I for one am quite happy to see this woman stay behind bars rather than have her running around inciting terrorism.

Inciting terrorism? She held a piece of paper during a political speech. During the '70s '80s and early '90s nearly everyone from the Nationalist side went to these rallies and Easter Commemorations but now you can be locked up indefinitely for "Inciting terrorism"

Fenian Army · 27-05-2012 6:33pm

The charges were dismissed anyway.

whitelines · 27-05-2012 7:21pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

Good to hear Gerry Adams expressly call for her immediate release in his presidential address.

Why would the leader of The SDLPII want to see an 'enemy of the island of Ireland' released back into the community?

SF had better watch themselves - if they get too close to these clowns, it might jeopardise their own strategy.

JustinDee · 28-05-2012 8:15am

Fenian Army wrote: »

This is a rather pointless road to go down...

You could say the those RUC men and their organization collectively denied the rights of tens of thousands of people . . . etc blah blah

You've just (feebly) attempted to justify the slaughter.
Well done, you. Real classy. Its as if people, with conveniently short memories or being too young to actually know what it was like, miss the old days.

Fenian Army · 28-05-2012 1:39pm

JustinDee wrote: »

You've just (feebly) attempted to justify the slaughter.
Well done, you. Real classy. Its as if people, with conveniently short memories or being too young to actually know what it was like, miss the old days.

I broadly agree with the PIRAs definition of legitimate targets. Certainly in the case of the RUC.

Not that it matters one jot. However I certainly don't want the "old days" back, I support the GFA.

ANy opinion at all on the topic of the thread or did you just come in to comment on my good self?

Fenian Army · 28-05-2012 1:45pm

http://www.sharesnack.com/5AFC7D6BDC9/pzj8o93p

Very good turnout at the Marian Price rally in West Belfast

JustinDee · 28-05-2012 2:21pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

I broadly agree with the PIRAs definition of legitimate targets. Certainly in the case of the RUC.

Like I said, you feebly attempted to justify the slaughter.

Fenian Army wrote: »

Not that it matters one jot. However I certainly don't want the "old days" back, I support the GFA.
ANy opinion at all on the topic of the thread or did you just come in to comment on my good self?

I know nothing about you and am not actually bothered. I post on what an anonymous synonym posts.
A supporter of any of that bloodshed knows little of human rights so when the pontificating about police officers being killed just for being police officers being a good thing is piped out, don't be surprised if taken up on it.
I doubt you have specific privileged information yourself that would exonerate the person in question of any suspicions.

Fenian Army · 28-05-2012 5:59pm

JustinDee wrote: »

Like I said, you feebly attempted to justify the slaughter.

I know nothing about you and am not actually bothered. I post on what an anonymous synonym posts.
A supporter of any of that bloodshed knows little of human rights so when the pontificating about police officers being killed just for being police officers being a good thing is piped out, don't be surprised if taken up on it.
I doubt you have specific privileged information yourself that would exonerate the person in question of any suspicions.

So you believe that it is acceptable to imprison people in this way, without disclosing the reason why, letting defense counsels see etc in effect preventing a meaningful appeal?

WakeUp · 28-05-2012 6:58pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

Marian Price has been in jail for nearly a year now after her appearance at an Easter commemoration last year in which she held a piece of paper which a masked person read from.

I think Marian brought it on herself that would be my opinion. People like her and the real IRA men she was standing beside are not wanted in our society is that a fair comment? from reading some of your other posts I see you supports the GFA? then surely people like Marian and the people she stood beside on that day you would be against their mindset and what they want...

We have all tried to move on. Rational people on both sides have tried to move on nobody wants a return to the dark old days of murder misery bombs and racism jesus the thought of that doesnt bear thinking about. I think people who still preach violence and willfully put themselves in that position belong in jail. Marian made a conscience decision to be there that day she has no one to blame but herself. Those who still preach violence and hate will hurt us all if they ever are allowed get a foothold and they shouldnt be allowed. To many people have suffered on all sides. Preach peace not hate, Marian chose the latter when she stood there that day.

Fenian Army · 28-05-2012 7:10pm

WakeUp wrote: »

I think Marian brought it on herself that would be my opinion. People like her and the real IRA men she was standing beside are not wanted in our society is that a fair comment? from reading some of your other posts I see you supports the GFA? then surely people like Marian and the people she stood beside on that day you would be against their mindset and what they want...

We have all tried to move on. Rational people on both sides have tried to move on nobody wants a return to the dark old days of murder misery bombs and racism jesus the thought of that doesnt bear thinking about. I think people who still preach violence and willfully put themselves in that position belong in jail. Marian made a conscience decision to be there that day she has no one to blame but herself. Those who still preach violence and hate will hurt us all if they ever are allowed get a foothold and they shouldnt be allowed. To many people have suffered on all sides. Preach peace not hate, Marian chose the latter when she stood there that day.

Indeed, Marian wouldn't even meet with SF when they visited the jail...

But I don't think people who disagree with me should be locked up just because of that. If they do something and thats proven in a court of law then thats entirely different.

getzls · 28-05-2012 8:55pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

http://www.sharesnack.com/5AFC7D6BDC9/pzj8o93p

Very good turnout at the Marian Price rally in West Belfast

Did they not get to-gether and read from a prepared bit of paper?:D

fasttalkerchat · 28-05-2012 9:01pm

getzls wrote: »

Did they not get to-gether and read from a prepared bit of paper?:D

A few hundred people from different political persuasions came out to show support for Marian and demand her release and fair play to them.

Would you rather they waited on Stormont to set her free of their own accord? They would be waiting a long time.

A lot of people are put off political demonstrations because of the stigma of going against SF so fair play to everyone who came out with what is right Gerry Kelly included.

getzls · 28-05-2012 11:03pm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

A few hundred people from different political persuasions came out to show support for Marian and demand her release and fair play to them.

Would you rather they waited on Stormont to set her free of their own accord? They would be waiting a long time.

A lot of people are put off political demonstrations because of the stigma of going against SF so fair play to everyone who came out with what is right Gerry Kelly included.

Don't think Stormont has any say in it. Decision will be made from the U.K. Gov.

fasttalkerchat · 28-05-2012 11:29pm

getzls wrote: »

Don't think Stormont has any say in it. Decision will be made from the U.K. Gov.

The UK gov. are happy to ignore the goings on of the legal and political system here now that all is quiet. I can't see them putting much pressure Owen Patterson. Amnesty, political parties have all been involved to some extent and its great to see this level of public support but the UK gov don't give a **** about anything beyond their sights.

SocSocPol · 29-05-2012 9:13am

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

The UK gov. are happy to ignore the goings on of the legal and political system here now that all is quiet. I can't see them putting much pressure Owen Patterson. Amnesty, political parties have all been involved to some extent and its great to see this level of public support but the UK gov don't give a **** about anything beyond their sights.

This level of public support? a few hundred people out of a total population in Norther Ireland of well over a million, hardly a tidal wave of support and sympathy for her.

RMD · 29-05-2012 11:19am

Quite a few people still happy to see her stay in jail also, not a groundbreaking level of support. A convicted terrorist or has continually associated with dissidents, most people aren't going to keel over in sympathy for her. Brought this upon herself.

fasttalkerchat · 29-05-2012 4:55pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

http://www.sharesnack.com/5AFC7D6BDC9/pzj8o93p

Very good turnout at the Marian Price rally in West Belfast

Terrible to hear about the harrassment on the way from from the protest:

The 32CSM in Scotland condemn the harassment its members had to endure by the British security services at Cairnryan Port while travelling back from Belfast for the Free Marian Price March.

Our members were approached by five officers who identified themselves as security. They were then separated and taken into rooms and quizzed about the events of the weekend and asked of who they associated with. 2 of those targeted were also held for 4 hours each and had to endure the embarrassment of full body cavity searches.

The 32CSM in Scotland condemn this incident, and would like to state that these dirty tactics adopted by the British security services will not deter us from highlighting the plight of Republican prisoners in Scotland, Ireland, or anywhere else for that matter.

Lapin · 29-05-2012 5:05pm

RMD wrote: »

Quite a few people still happy to see her stay in jail also...........

Including me.

They should throw away the key on people like her.

bon ami · 29-05-2012 5:07pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

So you believe that it is acceptable to imprison people in this way, without disclosing the reason why, letting defense counsels see etc in effect preventing a meaningful appeal?

When these people are murderers and terrorists who have broken their bond yea lock em up!!

I am pie · 29-05-2012 5:11pm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Terrible to hear about the harrassment on the way from from the protest:

I am glad that the security forces take the appropriate measures for those who associate with groups with the intent of murdering members of the security forces and endangering the lives of others.

Due process, correctly so.

Time To End Internment - Release Marian Price and Martin Corey

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