Season 5 x 09: The Dance of Dragons - HAVE READ the books

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

All the Iron Islands together are about the size of Skagos


And while Skagos is pretty cold, it can't be terribly less hospitable than

"The islands [which] are stern and stony places, scant of comfort and bleak of prospect. Death is never far here, and life is mean and meagre. Men spend their nights drinking ale and arguing over whose lot is worse, the fisherfolk who fight the sea or the farmers who and scratch a crop from the poor thin soil. If truth be told, the miners have it worse than either, breaking their backs down in the dark, and for what? Iron, lead, tin, those are our treasures. Small wonder the ironmen of old turned to raiding."

Who knows? Maybe Skagos will conquer Westeros...

The war ships of the Iron Islands may have a crew of 100 (that would be the size of the Sea Bitch for example) and that would be consistent with the number of ships quoted. But compare this to the quinquerem of ancient Rome which carried a total crew of 420.

Either way, you have a fighting force of maybe 20000, tops. (which is sort of confirmed by semi-cannon sources).

Quake in fear at the 20K troops that can be mustered by the Iron Islands! Hardly a game changer, right? Okay, if they threw in their lot with some other side I could see it making a difference (particularly given their skill on the sea). But I just can't buy the idea that they are significant in isolation. Dorne or even the Vale of Arryn, on the other hand, would be significant - so on those grounds, at least, I can forgive their inclusion in plot lines.

Oh, and the idea that the wildlings could muster a force of 100,000 was just... well... fantasy. At least that number has become a more realistic figure of 5,000 (in the tv series at least). But the TV series seems even weaker at keeping track of numbers than GRRM (Dany in Series 2 has 40 Dothraki... wait... 200... 1... 50.... 100s... and now... 0?)

Not really sure what you are arguing? When has anyone on the show quaked in fear at the thought of the Greyjoys taking over Westeros? The Greyjoys have never threatened to take over Westeros. They know their own limitations. When Yara comes to get Theon at Winterfell she literally calls him an idiot for thinking he could hold the North.

I think they are a great inclusion as they are so different from the other houses.

Out of interest...

Did anyone here, before this episode or still, believe that Stannis was ever going to make it to the endgame and be the King of Westeros in practice rather than by claim?
I agree that as the situation stands, He is the true rightful King of Westeros, but I have never thought he would ever actually get to the Iron Throne itself... Just wondering how others had seen it both before and now after...

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Out of interest...

Did anyone here, before this episode or still, believe that Stannis was ever going to make it to the endgame and be the King of Westeros in practice rather than by claim?
I agree that as the situation stands, He is the true rightful King of Westeros, but I have never thought he would ever actually get to the Iron Throne itself... Just wondering how others had seen it both before and now after...

I have never thought Stannis would make it to the Throne, even though I kinda wanted him to. He's been a contender, but I have never considered that the series would end with him in charge.

And now.... he burned his own child alive. That's a no from me

Washington Irving wrote: »

I didn't/don't really see Stannis taking the Iron Throne due to\mitigating factors such as winter worsening, threat of the Others (Stannis being the only contender paying attention to them), being in the North with nowhere to hole up (even if they take Winterfell, he'll have a hard time pushing south of the neck), Aegon's invasion, and potentially Dany's. And, as Liam O mentioned, he's not a POV, like Joffrey, Renly, Robb and Balon.

Unless he somehow swings an alliance with Highgarden (if by a miracle he forgives/finds a non-fatal way of punishing their 'treason' of allying with Renly and the Lannisters) and Sunspear, he hasn't a chance unless a spanner gets thrown into the works.

I still really want to see him do it, but everything is against him.

No King is a pov character. Being non pov makes him more likely to sit the Iron Throne.

Xenji wrote: »

I still see it being Bran in the books, would take me ages to explain the reasoning though and the TV show looks likely it will have a different ending.

Interesting..... I havent even considered Bran for a second, though I did consider and like the idea of it being Rickon.

amos13 wrote: »

I don't understand why so many people are convinced Stannis will die in ep 10. Is it hoping out of anger over Shireen? I think he still has every chance of sitting the throne eventually. He's supposed to be the greatest military leader in all of westeros! He'll not be easily killed.

I agree with how good a military leader he is supposed to be, but that might not be the case in the show.

He might attack WF even though he is not prepared to attack it properly and due to blind faith thinks he can win anyways.

This might result in a loss.

Most likely the battle will not be resolved in the last episode.
Loads of peoples fates will be uncertain.

I don't think Davos would be enraged enough at Stannis to kill him would he? I don't think Stannis will die next ep and I believe he can best the Boltons. Him realising everything he's done and sacrificed is all for nothing (if that happens) would be a moment in a later season I would think.

Going by episode synopsis it looks like we'll also be seeing a bit more of Dany & Drogon in last episode anyways.

LS would be completely cut from the show I would've thought.

I don't normally post here despite reading the books (which I don't like) and watching the show (Which I do like)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Jon ever actually confirmed as being 100% Dead in the books, seems like it was kind of a vague cliff hanger chapter end.... "something something and then the axe fell something", it was G.R.R.M at his rubbish-chapter-ending finest, the man can only seem to generate excitement through misleading-non-actual-deaths or shock-deaths... and this chapter stuck out to me as one of those that he can backtrack on now in both the book and show like "Oh now he wasn't actually killed, managed to sneak away to some other tower something something" - He did the same with Onion Knight remember in the books? He's Dead.... oh wait, no he got away somehow but I never told you that. AH-HA Got you Lolz!

So f**king glad we didn't have to suffer through that whole Across-the-Sea crap where the Dornish lads go on a bloody Post-Leaving cert trip, CNGF about any of them TBH.
Oh whats that? There's a tall sandy haired fellow, a short sneaky rat faced fellow, a quiet noble? Woweee. Fantasy fiction originality at it's finest there

Doubt we'll see any of the whole SH thing, thankfully, as that whole angle was just terrible.... just really phoned in and cheap.
If it happened now, many of the non-book readers will just think "Ah f**k this show, they're just gonna bring back main characters as zombies now"

I also don't really miss the whole Iron Islands stuff from the books, too many more new people by then (though I imagine they will feature next season).

Also don't miss the whole trying to turn the Eerie/Vale into some sort of cautious-political minefield.

I have to say I'm much preferring the show now as it's a lot leaner. I have to wonder when the next book will come out though as he's talking YEARS to write the series and the whole this is meant to be wrapped up by end of Season 8 (apparently)

It'll be interesting next season cause almost all the pieces are now moved into place with what I can recall in the books (it's been 4 years since I finished them).

I think all we're missing is Iron Islands, something something Six-Skins, Arya being Arya, Brienne getting offed somehow for shock value (probably happen this week actually as he and Ramsay kill each other or something), Maybe more in the Vale, Sam going to Old Town (hopefully the show will gloss over the token 15 new characters we're supposed to learn and care about), Some stuff in Quarth for the sake of it, Dany being Dany. Maybe Godfrey will reappear with the BwB

Looking back on Series 1 it's amazing to think how much I dislike Dany, Arya and Bran now. Stannis and Sansa are rather annoyingly typical of their character type but those other are just f**king stubborn and narrow mined and have lost all traits of endearing personality.

I'm rooting for the bad guys now pretty much... More Uncle Kevin, Bronn etc etc :pac:

/rant
/speculaion

Mickeroo wrote: »

No Jon's death wasn't confirmed, would be very surprised if he was dead. Like you said, Martin pulls that trick with the ambiguous chapter ending all the time.

Brienne isn't dead either in the books btw.

Yeah AFAIK, (again it was 4 years ago) it was like "And then the rope dropped and she was like looking lady stone heart in the eyes as her last breath escaped her lungs"

Now... "Surprise mo-fos, that was only her last breath before she totes fainted, she's grand"

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah, much the same trick he's likely pulled with Jon, though did it not have Brienne meeting Jaimie after the part where SH was going to hang her?

Can't remember, I can see him killing Jon off and bringing Cat back as turning people off the series.

Jon is one of the only likeable Good guys/Paramours/Throne Claimants (maybe) left in the series.

Oh I also reckon Stannis is gonna go full mad-targaryn like Aegon now and thats why we had to watch that scene.

Can Mesliandre send in a ghost/shade/shadow thingy now to Winterfell, wasn't that whole point of getting Queens blood

Cormac... wrote: »

Can Mesliandre send in a ghost/shade/shadow thingy now to Winterfell, wasn't that whole point of getting Queens blood

That would be cool actually, if she did. But she needs Stannis' ahem seed to make another Shadow assassin I believe.

And doing so, in the books at least seemed to age Stannis greatly and it took a bit out of Mel too.
He isn't fit to help produce another Shadow Assassin and it must also have something to do with him being a King, since if Stannis wasn't fit, I'm sure one of the army lads would volunteer.

I think burning Shireen can only bring about favourable conditions so that they can move forward and not freeze to death.

Much like burning Stannis' previous hand supposedly granted strong winds to blow them to the wall. Of course, this could have been total coincidence too.

I don't get the big focus on the hooded figure from the previous episode, his face was shown in one scene, it's not some big mystery character.

As for Rob's Will, not sure about the show but I always thought it was traveling with Ned's bones in the books. Explains Catelyn's desire to get to them as it would guarantee it safe passage back to the north, and would also explain why Lady Distin is eager to see them.

Doran knows Jamie is Myrcellas father, he sent Ellaria in to question Jamie about his relationship with Cersei possibly to use it as leverage to bind Jamie into protecting Prince Trystane, maybe Bronn will become his bodyguard next season.

December2012 wrote: »

Yeah she straight out called Myrcella his daughter!

Ya the Dornish have been referring to her as Lannister this whole season instead of Baratheon.