Where are the salmon going?

Hi,


There's lot of causes, Netting, Poaching, Over fishing! Etc I'm fishing on of my local rivers And have'nt seen a fish in 3 trips! Went out when it was on a falling flood but nothing, Also there could be problem out in sea to, So We just have to wait and see!

Can I ask in what locality you fish in?

I'm working up in Donegal here and seemingly the numbers have never been lower. It's very worrying what's going to happen the sector in the future. I'd say more and more rivers will be changing to catch and release in the coming years. Even though that's not the problem, the fish are going out but not retuning, sea survival is the issue. Global warming perhaps?

Mr Bumble wrote: »

West coast poaching offshore in the migration lanes is rampant, from Killybegs to Arthurstown. Austerity has made fish a source of income for many who had given up when the legal nets came off. Ask birdwatch ireland people how many fixed nets they bounce over when they're doing offshore colony surveys. It's easy to blame some unknown at sea for the fact that we don't look after our own backyard properly. Until we know what's happening at sea further north, we can't do anything about it but we could do more at home. IFI on the ground do their best but they are hamstrung by local lobbies,fixers and thugs....like everything else here.
Does anyone know whether there is a requirement that restaurants show the provenance of game fish on their menus? It should all be traceable to a net. If not, this is something that would have an instant impact. I was in a place on a lake near Killarney back in Apirl which had wild salmon on the menu. I asked where it was from and they laughed and pointed to the lake.
We don't ever confront the problem here. They're selling salmon and sea trout door to door in housing estates. It wouldn't take a fuggin swat team to catch them.

Thank god a bit of sense, I applaud you....

You hit the Nail on the head..

The IFI is full of academics and office workers, there is some very good personal, but the must of them prefer the write papers and reports...

There could be anything from 1000 to 10000 illegal nets on our Irish coastline and they will continue to ignore it...

Then you need to add in the legal nets that the IFI grant licence's for...

Also people need to understand is that alot of anglers or people that are perceived to have a valid opinion nearly always have a vested interest with the IFI...

Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing..

Zzippy wrote: »

Talk about ill-informed nonsense! Slate the people who are trying to protect fisheries, and forget the politicians who cut budgets, the judges who issue pitiful fines, the anglers who see illegal activity and don't call it in, etc. You have a major chip on your shoulder...but of course you're probably a visionary, anyone who disagrees with you must have a vested interest :rolleyes:

1000 to 10000 illegal nets? You haven't a clue...

Beg to differ .... attack the post and not the poster.
Dan has particular knowledge of an area from the way I read it and my knowledge of the same area backs up what he says.
There is an extraordinary concentration of nets from Cromane out to Brandon, around the coast towards Waterville, up the Kenmare river and further south off Beara.
I have found nets in Currane.
That's in the lake.
Both the Cummeragh and Capal rivers into the back lakes are netted at several points. This is just one system.
The Inny is poached to death.

There is virtually no IFI enforcement in that area. In 20 years fishing the lake, I've been asked to show my licence once.


You have no idea of the real world if you dispute this.

Zzippy wrote: »

Do you have any idea how many staff IFI have in Kerry? IFI have lost over 150 staff in the last 5 years, most of them protection staff, yet all they staff get is bull**** from keyboard warriors saying they do nothing. My point is that instead of directing abuse at staff trying to do their job in very difficult circumstances, it would be better aimed at the government who hamstring IFI by slashing budgets and staff numbers. I certainly do live in the real world and I have a lot more knowledge than you of the hard work the staff on the ground do. Kerry has been particularly hard hit, there are a tiny few staff to cover the whole area. By the way I fish Dingle a cpl times a year and have never seen a net, but statistically that doesn't mean anything, same as saying there are up to 10,000 nets off the coast has no basis in fact. And from personal and professional experience of much of the rest of the west coast, I can say its bull

I have not once stated any abuse or inaccurate information towards our officers here in kerry, i know all the fisheries officers down here and i won't name them but i have met them a number of times this year...

I found two nets on formoyle beach this year on a sunday and rang it in and two officers who i know came and seized the nets, in total this year i have rang in about 5 times... these were all certain illegal nets that i was actually standing alongside...

Only last month i rang one in that was being pulled in cromane on a saturday and there was no officer on duty, a well known officer from waterville had to come from a hour and half to the location, he rang me fair play to him and i also had a great chat to him...

I sent those gps locations of about 30 locations around the peninsula that have nets all through the summer to a fishery officer that i know...

I was on the phone last week to a fishery officer for about an hour and i hear there plight, we talked about the problems, and the cars which they drive in which are scandalous with the IFI written across them...

He talked about various things which he is completely helpless to fix and again i understand...

The IFI as a whole are not being there job, thats a fact...

ZZippy i don't know what your gripe with me is but the op was stating his opinion on the number of salmon and yes i agree with him...

As far as i know i think you are connected with the IFI in some way and i understand that it might hurt when you hear opinions that you don't agree with.. For that i am sorry...

But the fact is there is a board with the IFI which are earning very good money and they should be all sacked...

The IFI will in the future come under massive scrutiny and people will be held accountable for the blatant misuse of funds, lack of protection and the unbelievable state of our marine stocks...

Its not just the IFI but also the HSE...

I am no keyboard warrior, the fact is i am out nearly every day either in a river or the sea, i am better placed then anybody in the area that i know to have an opinion on whats going on...

Don't keep dissecting my opinion and calling me stupid names, again you know who i am, you can find out very easy where i live and what am i about...

Nobody knows who you are...

anthonyc123 wrote: »

I was informed by a local chef that there was a path worn to the back door of his kitchen offering him fresh Salmon.

Poaching was always a problem on Irish rivers. It was seen by those people as a victimless crime or a us(them) against the Bailiffs.
But in recent years it has become a means to get beer money. All these fish were sold to local houses and some restraunts on the QT.

I think this is matched with the legal estuary netting. With river levels being low in the last two years, the estuary nets could all make their quota ( although I don't really believe they stop there).Any salmon I have caught up until July will have net marks.

When the IFI were at their peak It was a rare occassion when I seen one on the river. Although I do believe they managed to deter quite a few poachers. But valuable resources were wasted up around the Gweebarra preventing local anglers from fishing the rivers they should have reasonable annual access to.

Now the IFI staff have been cut, it makes the situation all the worse. The only thing that is saving some of the salmon in the pools is high water.

It's a sad state. I don't believe catch and release helps any, because it just encourages more poaching.

I worked as a chef for a a couple of years as a young fella, i once worked in a restaurant in ballybunion, this place is a very well known restaurant and the owner is of higher pedigree in the area... "Thinks he is anyway"

One sunday about 12 o clock i was washing lettuce in the back sink and a fella came in with 12 salmon the biggest about 25lb, all poached from the cashen, he got 70 euro per salmon, that day i handed back my apron to the owner and told him he could keep his job..

Anybody who wants the name of the restaurant can pm..

Moses Many Xerox wrote: »

And just for balance, I have fished the rivers and lakes of the north east for over 60 years and have never come across a net. So extrapolation of one local experience nationally would give me a total of zero - no more accurate than Dan's assertion number wise.

Dan lives and works the area as far as I know and it is quite a big area with river systems of national and international significance within it. I'm sure he can speak for himself.

In the first place, I gave credit to IFI men and women on the ground, working in poor circumstances. I have yet to meet one who wasn't fully committed.
Dan speaks about deskbound bureaucrats and why is that such an unreasonable subject? They exist. I know the culture in the IFI. I know that a huge effort was made to police East Coast bass grounds after the subject received major publicity. They are reactive and not proactive in terms of implementing policy. IFI people will tell you that.
I don't know what the corporate structure is but I would like to see some numbers. My guess would be that it follows the same pattern as all state bodies which have been reorganised, reformed or redeployed and carries staff overlaps which have never been properly dealt with. How many out in the field compared to letter writers? I'd be interested to know.
Fisheries protection cannot be done in an office.
One man I know who looks after a fishery near where Dan speaks of suggests arming bailiffs as they do in Alaska. You've got to ask yourself why a reasonable man who has the best motives would even think of suggesting this. When he first said it, I laughed but he may be right. Poachers are well organised and will switch to violence without hesitation.

I have no reason to lie about permit checking. Once, on opening day on Currane, the IFI (SWFB at the time)were there in numbers. But those lads were moved to another area shortly afterwards. Wonder why? Do you seriously think that this doesn't happen. Seriously, wake up.

I know IFI men/women well and would count a few as good friends. They agree with a lot of what Dan says.
As an example, (which proves nothing I accept), 68 nets were lifted in the Kenmare channel when they were dragging for two unfortunate fishermen. And that's just what they found.
Simply by saying it's not true doesn't make that so. Poachers are not fools. They don't leave nets out for you to find. When anglers are about, poachers are not. It's no surprise you haven't seen nets.

I carry a good sharp knife on Currane in case I find one. Two in the last two years. Locals involved in the lake are now so concerned that they have considered hiring people specifically to keep an eye on it. Don't know where that lies at the moment but it is significant that they felt the need to take independent action.

I note Dan's suggestion that you (Zzippy) have or had a professional connection with the IFI (or whatever it was in the past). It would be helpful if you could confirm this.
Your reaction to both Dan and myself is to attack the poster when at no stage that I can see have either of us had a go at the IFI staff on the ground. Exactly the opposite.
It's all about vested interests.

I only started salmon fishing five years ago and I can even notice the numbers dwindling in that space of time which is frightening when you think about it. Along with the nets at sea poachers nets and the lack of food at sea and even some of us anglers. I think the two hard winters of 09 and 10 have effected the numbers of salmon that have survived to return to their spawning grounds would it be these fish that were born in these years that would be returning this year. I think that a lot of the spawn and fry would have died in these two winters a lot of the streams and even main rivers would have been frozen solid for months.

Moses Many Xerox wrote: »

Dan, that is not what I was saying. My point was that you cannot extrapolate the nets you have evidence of to the whole country and come up with a figure like 10000. Your observations, and those of your father, are perfectly valid. So are mine. Somewhere between the two the the figure lies but exaggeration driven by your obvious obsession on the matter does not help the argument.
I don't want to PM you for photos. I think I know what a net would look like and I don't PM on Boards anyway. But thank you for the offer. Look, I believe you but it's just the overly robust line taken that results in the argument becoming lost in the noise.
We all here are anglers and I think we all have the good of the sport and the fish at heart, so let's not let semantics and such divert the discussion.
For what its worth I have no connection with IFI but find they are doing a marvellous job with the resources available to them. They need more funding but I accept that that is not a priority in the current economic situation.
As for the salmon, numbers here were slow but it has improved greatly with the recent rains. Water is dropping fast however, son all may change again.

Unless you worked a bailiff in an area like Dan's dad over many, many years, i can't see how your observations or mine have the same weight. It was his livelihood and he was a professional water-keeper, essentially.
Are you on the water every day?
Are you employed as a fisheries officer?
If so, I bow to your wisdom but if not, you're like the rest of us.....concerned anglers with opinions.
I would also point out that neither myself or dan have engaged in semantics.
I am also amazed at how the normally very chatty zippy hasn't answered my question about his own potential vested interest which is surely relevant. I have no connection with any fisheries body, state or otherwise.
He obviously used up a lot of energy misreading both my posts and dans. I have rarely seen someone miss the points being made so spectacularly.
The only people who emerge with any credit out of all of this are the IFI staff on the ground.