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The Bike Scheme thread

  • 03-11-2011 12:28pm
    #1
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭


    FYI
    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/citybikes.html

    The Galway meeting is taking place:
    Tuesday, November 15 10.30am – 1.30pm Galway Siobhan McKenna Theatre, Arts Millennium Building, NUI Galway, University Road, Galway
    Bike Schemes in Regional Cities

    Introducing Public Bike Schemes in Regional Cities

    Alan Kelly TD, Minister for Public and Commuter Transport is holding a series of symposiums to explore the potential for delivering effective public bikes schemes – similar to the internationally acclaimed and successful “dublinbikes” scheme – in the cities of Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford.
    The purpose of each symposium will be to inform and involve local stakeholders, communicating the issues involved, facilitating debate and providing a defined channel which interested parties can avail of to discuss engagement with the scheme publicly or in commercial confidence.

    These symposiums are taking place as follows:
    • Monday, November 7 10.30am – 1.30pm Cork The Millennium Hall, City Hall, Anglesea St, Cork
    • Wednesday, November 9 10.30am – 1.30pm Waterford The Large Room, City Hall, The Mall, Waterford
    • Monday, November 14 10.30am – 1.30pm Limerick Limerick City Gallery of Art, Carnegie Building, Pery Square, Limerick
    • Tuesday, November 15 10.30am – 1.30pm Galway Siobhan McKenna Theatre, Arts Millennium Building, NUI Galway, University Road, Galway
    On the Minister’s request, the National Transport Authority commissioned analyses of the feasibility of such schemes, looking at the potential scope and of schemes in each city (technical report) and funding, cost and revenue analysis and options (commercial report). These are published here, and will underpin and inform the symposium discussions.
    Reports:
    Summary of Commercial Report
    Summary of Technical Report
    Commercial Report
    Technical Report
    If you are interested in attending a symposium, please let us know: bikeschemes@nationaltransport.ie
    If you have any comments to make on the proposals contained in the reports, please let us know, before November 20th: bikeschemes@nationaltransport.ie
    Tagged:


«134567…18

Comments

  • #2
    eire.man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭eire.man


    Galway city is so small I fail to see the advantage of the scheme coming here!!

    also the scum in this town will see to the bikes being wrecked regularly!!


  • #3
    HardyEustace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭HardyEustace


    While it would be great to see this scheme coming to Galway, I think it will only further agravate the problem of people cycling on pavements.

    The amount of idiots who think it's perfectly acceptable to cycle along pavements and the prom is astounding.


  • #4
    eire.man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭eire.man


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    While it would be great to see this scheme coming to Galway, I think it will only further agravate the problem of people cycling on pavements.

    The amount of idiots who think it's perfectly acceptable to cycle along pavements and the prom is astounding.

    if Ihad both the safe roads to cycle on and good drivers to avoid me I would gladly complete my full journeys on the road

    We are not Holland with decent cycle lanes!!


  • #5
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    I'd love to see this implemented. It'd be great to see some leadership from our local representatives on cycling that goes beyond one of them regularly cycling the wrong way up Abbeygate St.

    On the subject of vandalism, I believe the security and system that Dublinbikes use mean that there's only been a small amount of them turfed in the canal or banjaxed by feral youths.


  • #6
    HardyEustace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭HardyEustace


    eire.man wrote: »
    if Ihad both the safe roads to cycle on and good drivers to avoid me I would gladly complete my full journeys on the road

    We are not Holland with decent cycle lanes!!

    I know that this is a big problem in Galway. Lough Attalia, for example, is a place where you are left with little choice but to cycle along the path, especially at busy times.

    However, I have met people cycling along the prom, been taken out by a large, ignorant lump of a woman on the prom, people cycling across O'Briens bridge - I'm sorry but there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of muppetry.

    Equally cycling along the pavement on the Renmore road when there is a bus lane which leaves more than adequate room for a cyclist.

    I know there are exceptions to each rule (for example, I think Lough Attalia would be a fairly good one) but if you can't handle a bike competently on the road then you shouldn't be on that bike.


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  • #7
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    While it would be great to see this scheme coming to Galway, I think it will only further agravate the problem of people cycling on pavements.

    The amount of idiots who think it's perfectly acceptable to cycle along pavements and the prom is astounding.



    I hate footpath cycling myself, but in many cases cyclists are on the path because of the amount of idiots in positions of authority who led them there in the first place, and who are content to leave them there because it's hander than the alternative, which is to provide a safer roads environment.

    I hope the public bike scheme comes to Galway. It would undoubtedly increase the number of cyclists circulating in the city, and that in itself would tend to make cycling safer and more 'normal'. Galway motorists might at last begin to realise that the city is not their private playground, and more Galway cyclists might (a) realise they have both a right and an obligation to be on the road and (b) put more pressure on the City Council to provide better conditions.


  • #8
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    I know that this is a big problem in Galway. Lough Attalia, for example, is a place where you are left with little choice but to cycle along the path, especially at busy times.

    However, I have met people cycling along the prom, been taken out by a large, ignorant lump of a woman on the prom, people cycling across O'Briens bridge - I'm sorry but there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of muppetry.

    Equally cycling along the pavement on the Renmore road when there is a bus lane which leaves more than adequate room for a cyclist.

    I know there are exceptions to each rule (for example, I think Lough Attalia would be a fairly good one) but if you can't handle a bike competently on the road then you shouldn't be on that bike.



    I have never cycled on the path when travelling along Lough Atalia Road.


  • #9
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    How many bikes should Galway have?
    How many stations should Galway have? Locations?
    How much should the subsribtion be? (Dublin is only €10 per year)
    Should you be able to use the same "swipe card" for the other BIKE Share Schemes in the Country?


  • #10
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    That last point is an interesting one.

    I heard it mentioned on the radio, and it struck me as a good idea. No reason -- other than decision-makers' inertia? -- why the schemes could not be linked.


  • #11
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Executive Summary - Technical report
    Page 2
    "
    This study found that although the potential exists for successful schemes in each city, it would appear that schemes in Galway and Cork would be most successful partly due to the background levels of traffic congestion and the high price of car parking in both cities.
    "


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  • #12
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    eire.man wrote: »
    also the scum in this town will see to the bikes being wrecked regularly!!
    It works in Dublin so should work here too I hope. I'm all for it btw, whatever will lessen the traffic is ok in my book.


  • #13
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Executive Summary - Technical report
    Page 2
    "
    This study found that although the potential exists for successful schemes in each city, it would appear that schemes in Galway and Cork would be most successful partly due to the background levels of traffic congestion and the high price of car parking in both cities.
    "




    For some reason the Advertiser sees that as "ironic".


  • #14
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    For some reason the Advertiser sees that as "ironic".

    Added that link for ya! Wrong use of the term all right
    No's from the report:
    "
    The report outlines proposals to establish 23 docking stations for public bicycles across the city and estimates that up to 250 bikes would be required to cater for users. It estimates that there would be 1,500 subscribers to the public bike scheme and each bicycle would be rented an average of twice per day. The initial capital cost in setting up the scheme in Galway would be €1.55m, according to the document.
    "


  • #15
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    what_traffic wrote: »

    The Galway meeting is taking place:
    Tuesday, November 15 10.30am – 1.30pm Galway Siobhan McKenna Theatre, Arts Millennium Building, NUI Galway, University Road, Galway

    So they don't want to include working people on this. Okay they'll just have to stay in their cars.


  • #16
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Okay they'll just have to stay in their cars.

    Dont get it? Because one cannot attend a public meeting they will have to stay in their cars? :confused:


  • #17
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Dont get it? Because one cannot attend a public meeting they will have to stay in their cars? :confused:

    If this is a meaningful attempt to get people out of their cars and not just a PR stunt the public meeting should be at a more suitable time for all the targets of such schemes.


  • #18
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    antoobrien wrote: »
    ..the public meeting should be at a more suitable time for all the targets of such schemes.
    Am agreed on that point - most people dont have flexible working hours. Thats just how Civil servants roll.


  • #19
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Media will be there.

    Also full-time parents, perhaps.

    Unemployed people. Lots of them about.

    Councillors.

    It's the bike scheme that could potentially assist people commuting to work, not the symposium itself.


  • #20
    celty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭celty


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    I know that this is a big problem in Galway. Lough Attalia, for example, is a place where you are left with little choice but to cycle along the path, especially at busy times.

    However, I have met people cycling along the prom, been taken out by a large, ignorant lump of a woman on the prom, people cycling across O'Briens bridge - I'm sorry but there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of muppetry.

    Equally cycling along the pavement on the Renmore road when there is a bus lane which leaves more than adequate room for a cyclist.

    I know there are exceptions to each rule (for example, I think Lough Attalia would be a fairly good one) but if you can't handle a bike competently on the road then you shouldn't be on that bike.

    Amazing to blame the cyclists when it's the City Council to blame for providing such poor facilities.

    I regularly cycle to work and it's no fun at all trying to cycle home via the Seamus Quirke Road. Basically, my choice is either to take the car or cycle on the footpath because the road is too dangerous.

    Agree re Lough Atalia.

    As for the prom, I use the road. But there is one stretch from Seapoint to Western House which I find too dangerous cycling westwords, so I make no apologies for cycling that bit, although I do try to be slow / careful and haven't knocked anyone down yet.

    Car drivers can potentially cause far more damage to me than people like me can cause to any other road user on our bikes. There's hardly a week that goes by without some idiot pulling out in front of me or just completely ignoring the fact that I'm on the road.


  • #21
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    celty wrote: »
    Amazing to blame the cyclists when it's the City Council to blame for providing such poor facilities.

    I regularly cycle to work and it's no fun at all trying to cycle home via the Seamus Quirke Road. Basically, my choice is either to take the car or cycle on the footpath because the road is too dangerous.

    Or dismount and wheel your bicycle on the footpath when the road is too dangerous, thereby travelling at the same speed as the other people using it.

    If you're using any vehicle, motorised or not, then you are responsible for what it does. Sure the council, NRA, etc contribute, but the buck stops with you.


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  • #22
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Media will be there.

    Also full-time parents, perhaps.

    Unemployed people. Lots of them about.

    Councillors.

    It's the bike scheme that could potentially assist people commuting to work, not the symposium itself.

    The utter laziness of the timing makes it apparent that this is not in fact targeted at the group that can make most impact and is more about the optics of the situtation.


  • #23
    swe_fi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭swe_fi


    antoobrien wrote: »
    The utter laziness of the timing makes it apparent that this is not in fact targeted at the group that can make most impact and is more about the optics of the situtation.

    These are very good points on both counts, but...I'm skeptical :-)

    I am curious as to how many people in general and from the working population (which I am part of by the way) that would actually avail of these bikes. Can anyone give good examples of from where to where you would use these bikes, or envisage people using them, and/or over what sort of distances? In Dublin it would make sense based on the fact that the city core is spread out, rather flat and somewhat accommodating to pedestrians and cyclists.

    Galway has much against it when it comes to bikes, i doubt it will ever work before fixing them first.

    a) Weather - Very few people are prepared to turn up sweaty and wet to work. Going shopping or down to town for a pint / meetup / gig, same thing. This (for me and most people i know) rules out cycling or even walking apart from very short distances, and for very short distances I am not going to bother getting a bicycle from A to B. The weather must also be the reason that Galway has the most number of taxis in its main square vs size of town i have ever seen anywhere in the world.

    b) Narrow roads - this is an old town with an ancient road layout which cannot be dramatically changed and congestion is crazy (probably because of point a also) so cycling would be pretty dangerous even if you are a good & confident cyclist because people are stressed and you as a cyclist become a further object of irritation due to the fact you are holding up traffic (not really your fault). Removing roundabouts is not going to solve this issue either even it the main junctions become more friendly to pedestrians & cyclists.

    Feel free to prove me wrong, maybe it will work for students and tourist etc. even if i fail to see how. I would actually love to be able to cycle and walk around Galway and its outskirts / suburbs, but i think it needs a drastic redesign to enable it. And better weather (please). :)


  • #24
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    swe_fi wrote: »
    These are very good points on both counts, but...I'm skeptical :-)

    I am curious as to how many people in general and from the working population (which I am part of by the way) that would actually avail of these bikes. Can anyone give good examples of from where to where you would use these bikes, or envisage people using them, and/or over what sort of distances? In Dublin it would make sense based on the fact that the city core is spread out, rather flat and somewhat accommodating to pedestrians and cyclists.

    Galway has much against it when it comes to bikes, i doubt it will ever work before fixing them first.

    a) Weather - Very few people are prepared to turn up sweaty and wet to work. Going shopping or down to town for a pint / meetup / gig, same thing. This (for me and most people i know) rules out cycling or even walking apart from very short distances, and for very short distances I am not going to bother getting a bicycle from A to B. The weather must also be the reason that Galway has the most number of taxis in its main square vs size of town i have ever seen anywhere in the world.

    b) Narrow roads - this is an old town with an ancient road layout which cannot be dramatically changed and congestion is crazy (probably because of point a also) so cycling would be pretty dangerous even if you are a good & confident cyclist because people are stressed and you as a cyclist become a further object of irritation due to the fact you are holding up traffic (not really your fault). Removing roundabouts is not going to solve this issue either even it the main junctions become more friendly to pedestrians & cyclists.

    Feel free to prove me wrong, maybe it will work for students and tourist etc. even if i fail to see how. I would actually love to be able to cycle and walk around Galway and its outskirts / suburbs, but i think it needs a drastic redesign to enable it. And better weather (please). :)

    Would recommend to read the Technical report linked in post 1. It answer's alot of the questions you ask. The authors also state that Galway will probably be the most successful of the regional schemes.


  • #25
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    @ swe_fi
    BTW alot of the same scepticism you outline was also shown before the Dublin Scheme was launched as well.
    See the following thread post in the Cycling Forum.

    Now Dublinbikes is widely recognised as one of the most successful bike share rental schemes in the world. It currently has over 63,000 subscribers (of which almost two thirds hold long term subscriptions) and 2.6 million journeys have been taken since launch. On 13 Oct 2011 the scheme reached yet another rental record. 7,052 journeys were taken on the bikes, meaning each bike was rented an average of 13 times.


  • #26
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    swe_fi wrote: »
    I am curious as to how many people in general and from the working population (which I am part of by the way) that would actually avail of these bikes. Can anyone give good examples of from where to where you would use these bikes, or envisage people using them, and/or over what sort of distances? In Dublin it would make sense based on the fact that the city core is spread out, rather flat and somewhat accommodating to pedestrians and cyclists.

    Well in Dublin it's often used by people who travel from say the apartments in the IFSC to other places in around the city center (afaik there's one near the offices at Grand Canal Dock).

    The big boost for it in Dublin is lunch time traffic - people hopping on bikes to get to St Stephens Green for luch and stuff like that - instead of using cars.

    It's information and examples like this that needs to get out to the working public.

    In Galway there are a couple of obvious points. Domnick St & Claddagh on the west and Mervue & Ballybane on the east. Put them in the estates, near the office blocks etc.


  • #27
    swe_fi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭swe_fi


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Would recommend to read the Technical report linked in post 1. It answer's alot of the questions you ask. The authors also state that Galway will probably be the most successful of the regional schemes.

    I did read through the consultant report and it is pretty much based on data from other European cities, most of them not anything like Galway in terms of climate and from 1 meeting city council>consultants and a brief city walk-around during off peak hours. There are a lot of assumptions. One of the recommendations is that it would be implemented with 200-250 bikes over 4 km2 (compared to 8km2 proposed by the city council) = 50-62 bikes / km2 - this just sounds bonkers to me.

    The report mentions that the weather would not prevent it from being implemented, but this purely based on the fact that it worked in Dublin. I understand that it works in Dublin, and I can also understand why based on the city layout as i said previously but I don't think this is suitable for Galway, sorry. I say spend the money on improving the current cycling/walking infrastructure instead.


  • #28
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    swe_fi wrote: »
    I say spend the money on improving the current cycling/walking infrastructure instead.

    This argument is like the argument which came first the chicken or the egg.
    Anyways - why cant both be done at the same time? NOTE: Focusing just on hard infrastructure can be a big mistake. You can end up with stuff like this - which is not used at all by cyclists and actually inconviences and puts cyclists in Danger in Galway City.
    Soft measures are just as important. Changing hearts and minds is the key. Bikeshare schemes do this.
    A Galwaybike share is adding to a citys cycling / transport infrastructure. It introduces people who don't currently cycle to cycling.


  • #29
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    swe_fi wrote: »
    The report mentions that the weather would not prevent it from being implemented, but this purely based on the fact that it worked in Dublin.

    The weather argument is actually weaker for bikeshare schemes. You could take the bus to work in the morning, get a taxi, get a lift, car pool when its raining and then use the galwaybike in the afternoon / evening if it was dry.


  • #30
    swe_fi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭swe_fi


    what_traffic wrote: »
    This argument is like the argument which came first the chicken or the egg.
    Anyways - why cant both be done at the same time? NOTE: Focusing just on hard infrastructure can be a big mistake. You can end up with stuff like this - which is not used at all by cyclists and actually inconviences and puts cyclists in Danger in Galway City.
    Soft measures are just as important. Changing hearts and minds is the key. Bikeshare schemes do this.
    A Galwaybike share is adding to a citys cycling / transport infrastructure. It introduces people who don't currently cycle to cycling.

    The weather argument is actually weaker for bikeshare schemes. You could take the bus to work in the morning, get a taxi, get a lift, car pool when its raining and then use the galwaybike in the afternoon / evening if it was dry.


    The article you linked to is at best very biased and not a good example, well it is a good example of sensationalist journalism "Doomsday" lol. I don't see the problem with the pictures in the article you linked to to be honest, I would be able to cycle there as would most people. I used to live along this road and it is a low density road at most times. I even used to cycle from there to work before these cycle lanes were built and it was fine even back then.

    As for taking the bus, taxi, carpooling, galwaybike etc etc - yes you could in theory (I personally could not actually) if you had unlimited time on your hands or a PA but you would be spending literally hours and hours every week trying to organize travel based on the weather conditions (which could change 5 times during the day) and then end up waiting for a bus that never turns up, or half an hour late. Taxis cost a fortune over time (done that) and most of them will not take a bike.


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  • #31
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    swe_fi wrote: »
    I don't see the problem with the pictures in the article you linked to to be honest, I would be able to cycle there as would most people. I used to live along this road and it is a low density road at most times. I even used to cycle from there to work before these cycle lanes paths were built and it was fine even back then.
    Have you cycled it since the cycle paths where installed?
    Would recommend to cycle on the path and the road for comparison and then come back and say which one was the better experience.
    Its much slower now to complete your journey, lots of stopping and starting.
    swe_fi wrote: »
    I even used to cycle from there to work before these cycle lanes paths were built and it was fine even back then.
    Good point! So was there was no need for the cycle paths in the first place?

    Anyhow by the sounds of it this bikeshare scheme is not for you plus I am not sure do you understand it fully? I fail to see the relevance of your statement
    Taxis cost a fortune over time (done that) and most of them will not take a bike.


  • #32
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    what_traffic wrote: »
    The weather argument is actually weaker for bikeshare schemes. You could take the bus to work in the morning, get a taxi, get a lift, car pool when its raining and then use the galwaybike in the afternoon / evening if it was dry.



    I don't know the main arguments against the Dublin scheme when it was first proposed, but IIRC there were predictions that the bikes would be vandalised on a grand scale. Didn't happen obviously, and as you point out it is one of the most successful schemes there is. Something to be proud of, and Cllr Andrew Montague (he also of the 30 km/h zone) can take a lot of the credit.

    Weather is a predictable objection in the Galway context. It shouldn't be forgotten, though, that Galway is already strong cycling city, despite the weather, so there's no reason why that can't be built on.


  • #33
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Weather is a predictable objection in the Galway context. It shouldn't be forgotten, though, that Galway is already strong cycling city, despite the weather, so there's no reason why that can't be built on.

    True - the technical report states that in relation to cycling numbers in Salthill.

    This shows that as many as 9% of all residents cycle
    to work (or education) from some districts (e.g. Salthill).
    This is taken from the Citys Draft Walking and Cycling Strategy, which gets its data from the CSO.


  • #34
    the untitled user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭the untitled user


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    While it would be great to see this scheme coming to Galway, I think it will only further agravate the problem of people cycling on pavements.

    The amount of idiots who think it's perfectly acceptable to cycle along pavements and the prom is astounding.

    The problem here is the minority of motorists who act with deliberate contempt towards cyclists.

    Just the other day I had a fat f*ck in a Lexus roll down his window to hurl abuse as he overtook me. There was actually plenty of space to overtake, it was just the car ahead of him was hesitant. So he takes it out on me. C*nt. Ironically, he got about 200 yards before I had overtaken him again. :D

    Now that sort of sh*t I'm used to, but it can be fiercely upsetting if you aren't. I've a relative who refuses to cycle now because a similar experience led her to go up onto the pavement from the shock.

    It gets worse though, I've had water and objects thrown at me but the worst I've heard was from a colleague, he was actually slapped in the back of the head once as he was cycling along a road in town. The driver deliberately slowed down so the passenger could do it.

    So yeah, don't take it out on the poor folk who are too afraid to use the roads properly. You gotta do what makes you feel safest.


  • #35
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    In our culture cyclists are fair game, since they are clearly nerds, numpties or ne'er-do-wells.

    You see it politically (eg Labour ridiculing the Greens during the last government), you see it on Boards (not infrequently in the Galway City forum) and you see it on the streets (eg near misses with careless drivers or aggressive overtaking).

    I wonder how frequent are the acts of deliberate contempt that you describe?

    I had water thrown at me, followed by the water bottle, by a bunch of gurriers speeding up Taylor's Hill last year. Luckily I got the reg, and the offenders got into, er, hot water.

    More recently, a few months ago my sister-in-law had an egg thrown at her, again by the occupants of a speeding car. It smashed into her face and left her shocked and in pain. She was too stunned to get their reg.

    Incidentally, as a pedestrian I have had someone aggressively reverse their car towards me as I was holding a child in my arms.


  • #36
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    what_traffic wrote: »
    True - the technical report states that in relation to cycling numbers in Salthill.

    This is taken from the Citys Draft Walking and Cycling Strategy, which gets its data from the CSO.



    9% modal share for commuter cyclists in Salthill? That's three times the national average, despite the weather and all the other objections. I wasn't aware of that figure, so I'm impressed.

    Then again, what's the population of Salthill? ;)


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  • #37
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    9% modal share for commuter cyclists in Salthill?

    Then again, what's the population of Salthill? ;)
    Ehhh to education!!! Mainly!

    Most 'education' is near Salthill above primary level and they are not let cycle to school. I wish the 3rd level lot would buy lights for their bikes and upVis themselves though.


  • #38
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,874 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I have never driven in a more unfriendly city than Galway.

    Why do the nicest people on the footpath turn in to a selfish pack of morons in their cars? The city is the worst in the country for congestion and I truly believe it's because of ignorance and pig iron. Nobody will let anyone out in front of them, they will purposefully drive up to the person in front if them as close as possible to block someone coming out of a side street. They are unable to merge. Basic driving skills are not present, most people have their front fogs on, indicators are rarely used... etc etc...

    I find Dublin and other parts of the country and Northern Ireland much much more friendly places to drive.

    I reckon a scheme like Dublin bikes might work in Galway, but it will take a big attitude change on behalf of drivers in the city. On the other hand, it could be the thing that turns peoples minds about cycling in the city and be the best thing ever!


  • #39
    cL0h
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭cL0h


    celty wrote: »
    Basically, my choice is either to take the car or cycle on the footpath because the road is too dangerous.

    Agree re Lough Atalia.

    That's funny because I cycle the Seamus Quirke road every day all year round and I don't cycle on the footpath and I don't have any issues.

    eire.man wrote: »
    if Ihad both the safe roads to cycle on and good drivers to avoid me I would gladly complete my full journeys on the road

    We are not Holland with decent cycle lanes!!

    Again I cycle the same city you do and I never use footpaths for any reason. Yes I'm in the way for drivers but the solution to that problem is for the City to provide a better road experience for both cyclists and motors. If I move onto the path then that removes the issue for motorists and makes me a huge hazard for pedestrians. It means that the City doesn't need to act to resolve the exact issues you have pointed out.

    what_traffic wrote: »
    Executive Summary - Technical report
    Page 2
    "
    This study found that although the potential exists for successful schemes in each city, it would appear that schemes in Galway and Cork would be most successful partly due to the background levels of traffic congestion and the high price of car parking in both cities.
    "

    a) I have no idea why the expectation is that people are going to start cycling because they now have a bike available to them. I work with any number of people who bought €1000 bikes on the bike to work scheme that are now locked up in a shed somewhere gathering cobwebs and rust. In fact these people would have been much better off buying a €100 bike and then discovering they had no interest in cycling.
    b) The dogs on the street know that the majority of commuter traffic in Galway is caused during the week by school childeren being dropped off and collected and at the weekend by shoppers. Neither of these groups of people are served by a bike scheme.
    c) Due to our liberal laws around one off housing many commuters have come from surrounding towns, villages etc. where their only option currently is to drive. These people are not served by the scheme either.

    Now for the positive bits.
    • The solution to traffic problems is basic. Enforce the laws!!!
    • Fine cyclists on the spot for a) cycling at night without lights b) cycling on the footpath and c) breaking the rules of the road at junctions.
    • Fine or give points to motorists for a) breaking the urban speed limits, b) illegal lane changes, c) double parking / illegal parking, d) dangerous driving and e) (my pet peeve) driving with only one head light.
    • Narrow several footpaths around the town e.g Lough Atalia by 18 inches on both sides, and delineate a bike path. That way everyone knows where everyone else is supposed to be; bikes, cars and pedestrians.

    We can also encourage bus use through discounted weekly and monthly ticketing that is transferable between two buses for the same journey.Nice to have is to add more bus lanes where possible.

    what_traffic I'd appreciate if you could represent some of these views at that public meeting as I'll be at work as usual at that time.

    cL0h


  • #40
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    cL0h wrote: »
    Narrow several footpaths around the town e.g Lough Atalia by 18 inches on both sides, and delineate a bike path. That way everyone knows where everyone else is supposed to be; bikes, cars and pedestrians.

    Hi

    I agree with much of your suggestions but would like a bit of clarification on the definition of bike path above? Do you mean a line painted on the existing footpath?


  • #41
    cL0h
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭cL0h


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    Hi

    I agree with much of your suggestions but would like a bit of clarification on the definition of bike path above? Do you mean a line painted on the existing footpath?

    Ideally it should be a physical deterrent to a car driving in it. The painted lanes such as exist along the Western Distributor and Clybaun Roads in Knocknacarra are silly and just used as parking spaces. I don't believe concrete islands are an option where road width is at a premium or where cyclists are unduly hemmed in and unable to avoid debris/ice/water.
    I'm thinking maybe cat's eyes or those bedded in flaps. No idea of the technical term for bedded in flaps :)
    No doubt there are arguments against these too. Probably legal.


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  • #42
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    @cL0h
    Will do - agree with your points RE cycling on SQR + lane widths on Lough Atalia Road + Cycle to Work is to generous. €500 would have been enough and reduce entry time to participate every 3 years v's 5 years.
    Re your Bullet points. Your first bullet 3 points are really matters for the AGS.

    Have you any specifics re the BikeScheme itself?
    i.e price of membership? locations of stations? ability to use other schemes in the country with the same membership card?


  • #43
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Was anybody at the symposium today?


  • #44
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Was anybody at the symposium today?

    Yes. Short story is that there is money on the table if a private sector co-sponsor is prepared to step up with additional funds.

    This proposal has generated significant interest nationwide but the "advertising led" business model behind the Dublin bikes scheme is not percieved to be viable in the current economic circumstances. Galway and Cork are the main cities in the running.

    My own view is that the Government does have additional funds that they could allocate to this in the form of the Demonstration Towns competition funds. The state does not currently have the structures in place to ensure this competition money is spent effectively. The state does not have adequate design guidance in place and there is no body that would have the capacity to exercise the necessary oversight. Similarly it is regrettably likely that the Irish Civil engineering profession, would not in general, have the required understanding of what is involved.

    So the obvious answer is to scrap the demonstration towns funds and use them for the city bikes schemes. Least worst use of the money.


  • #45
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    So the obvious answer is to scrap the demonstration towns funds and use them for the city bikes schemes. Least worst use of the money.

    Your talking about the "Smartertravel" demonstartion towns\citys?


  • #46
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Your talking about the "Smartertravel" demonstartion towns\citys?

    Yep I think the original title was the "Smarter Travel Areas Fund Competion" sadly it still appears to be in the recently published government expenditure program. There was a hope it would go the way of Metro North.


  • #47
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Nobody asked how many people cycled there or took a bus or car-pooled, given the nature of the talk, I thought it might be interestig to find out. I saw the Mayor's car outside with a chaffeur, obnoxiously parked. I'll bear it in mind next time she spouts forth on transport issues.

    T'was nice to see public servants Ciaran Hayes and Joe Tansey sitting there for three hours.


  • #48
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I would look at the following variances if they are any help to you Galwaycyclist. I do take it that the advertising model is trés Celtic Tiger.

    Made Galwaynews http://www.galwaynews.ie/22698-private-sector-urged-fund-galway-bike-scheme

    1. Integrate with eTolling systems like eFlow, inventory swipe bikes in and out by embedding a toll tag in the frame and also let Tag owners use them to rent bikes. eFlow may even partner as a test of their 'green' credentials. You can capitatise the cost of any gear they give you.

    2. Integrate with Mobile Networks and mCommerce systems...everyone has a mobile whether they drive or not. You can capitalise the cost of that gear too. Also look and see if IBM will give you some squiddlys under their Smarter Cities program. Do not let City Officials or Councillors NEAR IBM whatever you do. :p

    3. Put one or two racks out in Park n Ride centres and offer discounts on bike rental if a car is additionally parked, eFlow tags would also have their uses in this scenario.

    4. Do not put any inside the University Campus, perimeterise them only.

    5. Try getting B&Bs, particularly city centre ones in College / Grattan Road to replace a parking space with a small rack, they will have to be insurance indemnified for this and maybe given a rates discount. Same with hotels. Then tourists have an end to end travel solution. Also allow bus passengers and train passengers to pre-book bikes at the Train and Bus station stands ONLY...eg by Mobile Caller ID when they are around Athenry. Number advertised on train and bus of course. You can possibly capitalise the sites depending on the agreement.

    6. Avoid racks that open to the south, people hate wet saddles unless they are designed with water repellence features. :D

    7. Have some portable racks, eg around races time and for Salthill in summer. Do not go with 100% fixed racks.

    I wouldn't mind helping but if any of it involves mingling with Galway green types I am out and will make suggestions here only. :(


  • #49
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Made Galwaynews http://www.galwaynews.ie/22698-private-sector-urged-fund-galway-bike-scheme
    Up to 250 bikes could be made available at 23 docking stations within 4 square kilometres around the city centre.

    I hope that's wrong - it works out at the stations being about 1km of Eyre Square/shop st. I hope they meant within 4km radius of the city center


  • #50
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    antoobrien wrote: »
    I hope that's wrong - it works out at the stations being about 1km of Eyre Square/shop st. I hope they meant within 4km radius of the city center

    Your right. Its 4km radius. See Page 17 of the following PDF. Bike Scheme Technical Report
    Very much a concentration of stations on the West Side of the City. (Apart from Taylors hill area)
    The Dublin Bikes weigh 23kg so perhaps they are putting stations along non climbing routes?


  • #51
    ciotog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ciotog


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Your right. Its 4km radius. See Page 17 of the following PDF. Bike Scheme Technical Report
    Very much a concentration of stations on the West Side of the City. (Apart from Taylors hill area)
    The Dublin Bikes weigh 23kg so perhaps they are putting stations along non climbing routes?
    Public transport on the west side is pretty poor, would be nice if there was good public bike scheme take up on that side.


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