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How does Mo Farah stack up in the history books?
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26-02-2015 5:10pm#1Probably the most comprehensive evaluation I have seen in a long while and actually made for a great read for anyone interested
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/02/the-letsrun-com-staff-civil-war-can-mo-farah-be-considered-the-goat-greatest-of-all-time/
Have to say I am in agreement that personally I don't put him in same ball park as the great distance runners4
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He has to go down as one of the greatest of all time. I see he recently got a world mark in the two miles indoors. He's a double Olympic champion, as well as a WC over 5 and 10 k. Top 5 no doubt at 5 and 10 k. PBs only tell some of the story. In a race that is paced and set for a record he could challenge 5 k. His 2 mile indoor world best is the best in history. His PB at 1500 also tells me how brilliant he is. It's a good 3-4 seconds faster than Bekele and Haile....
BTW, excellent breakdown in the article. Very informative.0 -
He has to go down as one of the greatest of all time. I see he recently got a world mark in the two miles indoors. He's a double Olympic champion, as well as a WC over 5 and 10 k. Top 5 no doubt at 5 and 10 k. PBs only tell some of the story. In a race that is paced and set for a record he could challenge 5 k. His 2 mile indoor world best is the best in history. His PB at 1500 also tells me how brilliant he is. It's a good 3-4 seconds faster than Bekele and Haile....
Personally I would rank:
Bekele
Geb
Tergat
El G (looking from a distance perspective rather than MD)
Kipchoge
Lagat0 -
Well, IMO EL G is better than any of them, and beats any of them over 5 k if he decides to tackle the distance. He has two wins over Bekele at the distance, both at global events. He has no weakness for them to exploit.0
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Well, IMO EL G is better than any of them, and beats any of them over 5 k if he decides to tackle the distance. He has two wins over Bekele at the distance, both at global events. He has no weakness for them to exploit.
Better over 5k? debateable, Greatest Middle distance? without a doubt but many on that list ahead of him have shown prowess at XC, Marathon etc to establish their credentials for greatest distance runners of all time.
If you were going for 1500/5000 runners then you would probably rate as follows
El G
Komen
Lagat
Bekele/Geb
Farah/Ndiku
In terms of Championship racing I would actually even have Viren ahead and Mo neck and neck with Yifter in this regard simply due to the nature of heats in the 10k for global championships0 -
Better over 5k? debateable, Greatest Middle distance? without a doubt but many on that list ahead of him have shown prowess at XC, Marathon etc to establish their credentials for greatest distance runners of all time.
If you were going for 1500/5000 runners then you would probably rate as follows
El G
Komen
Lagat
Bekele/Geb
Farah/Ndiku
In terms of Championship racing I would actually even have Viren ahead and Mo neck and neck with Yifter in this regard simply due to the nature of heats in the 10k for global championships
EL G has better times from 1000 up to 3000, and Bekele the better over 5 and 10. At 5 I would put EL G at a 65 percent chance of beating Bekele. In a 10 race series over 5 k EL G beats Bekele 6/7 times from 10. He has the speed to beat him over the final 400-500 and the endurance to race at a very fast pace. The world final in 2003 was a wicked pace, and it was EL G who made the running. A great race that EL G lost by a whisker. I would have loved that have seen EL move up to 5 k. I wonder why he didn't take it as serious as the 5 k men? His PB is amazing considering he was mainly a miler.
1500/5 k double? Can't argue with the top 2. But if medals are to be included as well as performances then Farrah replaces Komen and Lagat.0 -
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Mo is good but the standard over 5k and 10k on the track has declined over the years.
I think he go down as a great runner but not the world best as his times doesn't stack up compare to the best. Also he is afraid to race in a quality field unless its for a medal.0 -
If he focused primarily on record times then he could challenge at 5 k. Not sure over 10 k. Surely his recent record indicates the form he is in, regardless that it was indoors. It's still two miles. As the article says, he can only beat what is in front of him, and IMO Farrah at his best competes in any era. His flat out final lap speed is probably a bit better than Geb and Bekele in an evenly paced race.0
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If he focused primarily on record times then he could challenge at 5 k. Not sure over 10 k. Surely his recent record indicates the form he is in, regardless that it was indoors. It's still two miles. As the article says, he can only beat what is in front of him, and IMO Farrah at his best competes in any era. His flat out final lap speed is probably a bit better than Geb and Bekele in an evenly paced race.
I don't think that he could over 5k tbh, that world best is only worth in my estimation 7.29-7.30 which isn't even up there with the fastest time trailers of this generation let alone all time.
I reckon given the right conditions Farah would run 12.47-12.48 at best.
In a time trial race I reckon Alamirew and him are fairly level0 -
It's worth reading the discussion on the Letsrun message board for a really good overview of this. To be honest, it doesn't seem to be much of a debate! But it is informative; some of the points made in favour of guys other than Bekele and Haile (particularly guys who had to compete with them in their prime) being ahead of Mo are interesting.
Two points I liked were that a) Mo's 2-mile time doesn't even count as a world record. The IAAF doesn't even keep records for the distance. It's a world best.
and b) regarding Mo's final lap pace and Bekele being able to live with it:For that matter, who's to say that Kenenisa in his prime, if challenged properly, wouldn't have unleashed an even greater kick than he did for many of his races? Let's select Bekele's 2004 Olympic race as an example. The next best guy, Sileshi Sihine, was more than 4 seconds behind. 4 seconds!!! Bekele ran 53.02 for the last lap in that race WITHOUT being pushed AT ALL by the competition, faster than Farah's 53.48 while winning the Olympic 10,000m in 2012. It's also very significant that, in the SLOW Olympic 5,000m race that followed, Farah ran his balls off holding off 5 guys for gold, and ran 52.94 in the last lap...barely better than Kenenisa did with no competition in a race twice the distance.
Farah is NOT the 'goat.' He is NOT in the discussion for 'goat.' GOAT CANDIDACY AT THIS POINT IS FOR KENENISA, HAILE, AND OTHERS, not Mo.
I'll close with memories of the 2008 Olympic 5,000m final. Let's begin with the fact that Kenenisa ran sub-13 to win it. 12:57.82 to be precise, and he didn't need a freaking pace-setter to do it. He DOMINATED the last 5 laps by front-running, turning in a 4:56.97 final 2000m, and going un-challenged (again) in the final lap (the next fastest guy, Eliud Kipchoge, was 4.98 seconds behind). In the final 1600m Kenenisa turned in very nearly a 4-minute mile, running one of those laps in 59.9 seconds, and doing it all like he's ordering a pizza (easily; just watch a video of it sometime and look for the smile on his face while he was doing it, let alone the ease of his body-action). Now, you tell me, does anyone out there really think that a guy (Kenenisa Bekele) doing all that at the end of an OLYMPIC 5,000m is inferior overall to Farah at that distance when both are in their prime?0 -
He is clearly a top class runner, you don't become double Olympic champion by accident. However he has been very fortunate to peak at a time of decline in African distance running. There was an extraordinary amount of championship races where the Africans played right into his hands and whatever AlSal worked on with his kick meant Mo had the races handed to him on a plate on a lot of occasions. Mo at his peak at the same time Kenny B was at his peak and there is only one winner. As for the 2 mile WR, there is no doubt it is a super run, however it is not a time that is raced too often and I think if Mo wants to be regarded on the same level as Geb and KB then he needs to have a crack at the serious world records, the 3/5/10k.0
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The Mo Farah of 2011-2015 would have bit the dust with 600m to go in the 2008 Olympic 5000m final. He would have found it tough going possibly fading to 4 or 5th. Bekele's performance that night was the greatest championship 5000 performance of all time in my humble yet correct opinion. The last 6 laps were under 6 minutes with him easing up the home straight waving the finger around the bend.
One must remember when Farah runs 5 minutes for the last 2000 in a 5000m final he does it 2.35/2.25. Bekele however, could do a 2.30/2.25 if pushed off a much faster opening 3000m in around 7.55-8 minutes.
Farah in a championship 5000m does the following
Farah runs 3000 at tempo, roughly 1000 at 5k pace and then, 400m at 3k pace.Then he floors them with a blazing last 600m using his 1500 pedigree.
The lack of any rival in the 10000m makes it comfortable for Farah to do a 4-5 mile tempo and then blast them with a 2.28 last k. He usually runs a 94 second 600m followed by a 53-54 second 400m to negative split the last 1000m.
Farah's trump card is his ability to run a sub 3.48 mile and a sub 60 minute half. In championship races he has enough aerobic power to be able to utilize his terrific speed endurance over the last 600m.
However, as last week showed us 5 laps at 60 seconds per 400 before the bell will kill Farah's closing speed. He struggled with a 58 second last 400m in the two mile going through 3k in 7.33. The problem is are there any athletes out there that can do what Bekele did in 2008?
The answer is most unlikely meaning that unless Caleb Ndiku or Edris can improve there aerobic power then Farah may rule supreme in Bejing and possibly Rio.0 -
We get it!0
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Ghost in Cratloe wrote: »The Mo Farah of 2011-2015 would have bit the dust with 600m to go in the 2008 Olympic 5000m final. He would have found it tough going possibly fading to 4 or 5th. Bekele's performance that night was the greatest championship 5000 performance of all time in my humble yet correct opinion. The last 6 laps were under 6 minutes with him easing up the home straight waving the finger around the bend.
One must remember when Farah runs 5 minutes for the last 2000 in a 5000m final he does it 2.35/2.25. Bekele however, could do a 2.30/2.25 if pushed off a much faster opening 3000m in around 7.55-8 minutes.
Farah in a championship 5000m does the following
Farah runs 3000 at tempo, roughly 1000 at 5k pace and then, 400m at 3k pace.Then he floors them with a blazing last 600m using his 1500 pedigree.
The lack of any rival in the 10000m makes it comfortable for Farah to do a 4-5 mile tempo and then blast them with a 2.28 last k. He usually runs a 94 second 600m followed by a 53-54 second 400m to negative split the last 1000m.
Farah's trump card is his ability to run a sub 3.48 mile and a sub 60 minute half. In championship races he has enough aerobic power to be able to utilize his terrific speed endurance over the last 600m.
However, as last week showed us 5 laps at 60 seconds per 400 before the bell will kill Farah's closing speed. He struggled with a 58 second last 400m in the two mile going through 3k in 7.33. The problem is are there any athletes out there that can do what Bekele did in 2008?
The answer is most unlikely meaning that unless Caleb Ndiku or Edris can improve there aerobic power then Farah may rule supreme in Bejing and possibly Rio.
Bekele had to run the race like that in 2008 because of the ridiculously slow opening pace(2.45 1st k), He got caught out in 2004 by El G couldn't let any of the mid-d guys get a shot again. I think the comparison is unfair as Mo hasn't or even needed to make an attack from that far out in a championship race.
He always goes with the pace (or moves out front to slow it down) until he takes the lead at the bell. So, when he runs sub 5 for the last 2k, he's only attacking with 400 to go. Bekele has never gone 2.30/2.25 in a race. 2.32/2.25 is his best ever closing 2k which was run off an 8.00 3k in that 5000m(a jog for Bekele, slower than his average pace for 10k). Not saying it wasn't a great finish because it was great but saying that Mo couldn't live with that is ridiculous in my opinion.
I don't see how Mo only being able to conjure up a 58 last lap off the pace in his 2m WRi shows his weakness. Daniel Komon en route to the outdoor WR of 7.58 only narrowly ran under 61 for his last lap that day, the same guy who ran 7.20 for 3k and 12.39 for 5k.
Mo ran 3218m in 8.03 indoors with a negative split of 4.05/3.58, saying he couldn't run under 5 mins off an 8 minute 3k doesn't make any sense to me. Taking out the extra 19m from the 2 miles, Mo ran 8 laps at a near 60 flat per lap indoors. That he wouldn't be able to run under 5 minutes for 5 laps off an 8 minute 3k pace doesn't make any sense to me.
If you said, he wouldn't have been able to run a 54 second last lap like Bekele did in 2008 off of that pace, I would've agreed with you but Mo would be capable of running sub-5 off of 8 min pace, just not in the same fashion as Bekele. Using splits like Km or 2Km's don't tell the story of a race, the 400m splits are the real storytellers.
Saying that, Bekele's 7.36/5.01 WR is ridiculous, IMO, Mo wouldn't have a chance of running like that. I don't think Mo is the GOAT but he certainly deserves more credit than he gets. Who else has run a sub-3.30 1500m and a 60 flat half. Always disappointed that Zatopek is left out of these discussions, completely revolutionized the sport and will probably be the only person in ever to win the 5000, 10000 and Marathon in one Olympics.0 -
Isn't this the same Mo Farah who at 20 years of age couldn't beat Chris Thompson to win a Euro U/23 5000m?
Farah has gone on to win everything in the sport but we are too quick to forget the Farah of 2004-2009 when BBC would dote on their only distance runner and lament all of his 'nearly made the final' performances at major championships.
Then, all of a sudden, he ditched the adidas gear and his one black spike and one white spike, went off to America, made some friends and Barcelona 2010 happened.
He is the only athlete out of that list of Komen, Bekele, Geb etc who wasn't already running out of this world in his early twenties. It took him to the age of 27 to 'realise' his greatness it seems. This also coincided with a coaching change, funny that.
I'd give Farah the greatest bull***t post-race celebration pose of all time.
Or greatest career transformation of all time, but not the greatest athlete of all time.0 -
Netwerk_Errer wrote: »Bekele had to run the race like that in 2008 because of the ridiculously slow opening pace(2.45 1st k), He got caught out in 2004 by El G couldn't let any of the mid-d guys get a shot again. I think the comparison is unfair as Mo hasn't or even needed to make an attack from that far out in a championship race.
He always goes with the pace (or moves out front to slow it down) until he takes the lead at the bell. So, when he runs sub 5 for the last 2k, he's only attacking with 400 to go. Bekele has never gone 2.30/2.25 in a race. 2.32/2.25 is his best ever closing 2k which was run off an 8.00 3k in that 5000m(a jog for Bekele, slower than his average pace for 10k). Not saying it wasn't a great finish because it was great but saying that Mo couldn't live with that is ridiculous in my opinion.
I don't see how Mo only being able to conjure up a 58 last lap off the pace in his 2m WRi shows his weakness. Daniel Komon en route to the outdoor WR of 7.58 only narrowly ran under 61 for his last lap that day, the same guy who ran 7.20 for 3k and 12.39 for 5k.
Mo ran 3218m in 8.03 indoors with a negative split of 4.05/3.58, saying he couldn't run under 5 mins off an 8 minute 3k doesn't make any sense to me. Taking out the extra 19m from the 2 miles, Mo ran 8 laps at a near 60 flat per lap indoors. That he wouldn't be able to run under 5 minutes for 5 laps off an 8 minute 3k pace doesn't make any sense to me.
If you said, he wouldn't have been able to run a 54 second last lap like Bekele did in 2008 off of that pace, I would've agreed with you but Mo would be capable of running sub-5 off of 8 min pace, just not in the same fashion as Bekele. Using splits like Km or 2Km's don't tell the story of a race, the 400m splits are the real storytellers.
Saying that, Bekele's 7.36/5.01 WR is ridiculous, IMO, Mo wouldn't have a chance of running like that. I don't think Mo is the GOAT but he certainly deserves more credit than he gets. Who else has run a sub-3.30 1500m and a 60 flat half. Always disappointed that Zatopek is left out of these discussions, completely revolutionized the sport and will probably be the only person in ever to win the 5000, 10000 and Marathon in one Olympics.
The main point of your argument is to tell me a 1-2 second difference in Bekele's second last k. If you read my post it would state that Bekele in his prime could have went 2.30/2.25 if pushed and as such burn Farah before he got to the bell.
Komen was running a lot faster than Farah when he didn't speed up on the last lap. Farah does not have a 53-54 second 400m in him if he is running 7.30 3k pace, Bekele in his prime did.
Nobody is underestimating Farah. He is in the top 10 distance track runners of all time. He is a great athlete just not as great as Bekele, Geb or Kipchoge.
I am glad the Ghost got you to reopen your account.0 -
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Too much speculation on what Farrah could and could not do. In championship races you race. You rarely go out to time trial or set a record time. Farrah is likely more than capable at his best to hang with any great runner no matter what the strategy. He may well prefer certain strategies and paces, but that doesn't mean he cannot run other paces and strategies. His 12 mins 52 or so PB is enough to tell me that he is capable of any race pace/strategy.0
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Lots of furore going on with the pics of Farah posing for photos and training with that guy who is banned since Jan 1. Not speculating , but bizarre that he thought it would be a standard thing to do , given his supposed standing in World Athletics. He will have to answer some serious questions now !0
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Ghost in Cratloe wrote: »The main point of your argument is to tell me a 1-2 second difference in Bekele's second last k. If you read my post it would state that Bekele in his prime could have went 2.30/2.25 if pushed and as such burn Farah before he got to the bell.
Komen was running a lot faster than Farah when he didn't speed up on the last lap. Farah does not have a 53-54 second 400m in him if he is running 7.30 3k pace, Bekele in his prime did.
Nobody is underestimating Farah. He is in the top 10 distance track runners of all time. He is a great athlete just not as great as Bekele, Geb or Kipchoge.
I am glad the Ghost got you to reopen your account.
Ah, Come on!:D How was Bekele being 1-2 seconds slower over the second last K my main point? It was one sentence.
My main point was a counterpoint that Farah couldn't live with a sub-5 pace over the last 2k which he definitely could in my opinion. You said in your first post that Mo would've been dropped with 600m to go and then in your second post, you changed your story to saying Mo would be there at the bell but wouldn't be able to run a 54 last lap which was the point I made.
I'm with walshb on this one:eek: and as I said in my first post, the comparison is unfair because Mo has never needed to run from that far out in a championship race. Bekele had to because he didn't trust his kick off a slow pace against the mid-d guys. I feel like I'm on repeat here.
How can Kipchoge be above Mo on the all-time best track runners list? He has only one major championship gold to Mo's 5. Here are their PB's:
|Distance|Farah|Kipchoge|
|1500m|3:28|3:33
|3000|7:30i|7:27
|3200i|8:03i|8:07i
|5000|12:53|12:46
|10000|26:46|26:49
For a guy who rarely time trials, Mo's got Kipchoge narrowly on times alone in my opinion. I'm giving Mo the nod on the 3000m because his 7:30 is indoor.
I see Lagat mentioned in these discussions as higher too, that's arguable in my opinion because of Lagats longevity but I'm still giving it to Mo in that matchup too. Mo has more Championship wins, fair enough Lagat had to compete with El G but when it comes down to it, Farah would've been able to compete with Lagat in the 1500m and 5000m but when it comes to the 10000, Lagat wouldn't have a hope.
I also think the argument of weaker competition is slightly flawed now, The 5000m has some of the fastest men in history running now. It's not as strong as the days of Geb, Tergat and Komen but there is depth there. The 10000 is a lost cause alright and is weak by past standards which helps Farah because it's his weakest event.
I still think that 2 mile performance by Mo will have the rest of the world pondering on how to beat him. What do they do? Go out hard and pace him the whole way or leave it to the sit and kick again? I think it was a brilliant decision by Salazar to put him out there in a 2 mile WR attempt. It lays down a marker for everyone else to worry about. What are they going to think if he goes sub-60 in Lisbon next month? Completely nuts if he does that back to back.
The argument for Goat will always be between Geb and Bekele for me and I don't think I'll ever be able settle on just one.0 -
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Netwerk_Errer wrote: »Ah, Come on!:D How was Bekele being 1-2 seconds slower over the second last K my main point? It was one sentence.
My main point was a counterpoint that Farah couldn't live with a sub-5 pace over the last 2k which he definitely could in my opinion. You said in your first post that Mo would've been dropped with 600m to go and then in your second post, you changed your story to saying Mo would be there at the bell but wouldn't be able to run a 54 last lap which was the point I made.
I'm with walshb on this one:eek: and as I said in my first post, the comparison is unfair because Mo has never needed to run from that far out in a championship race. Bekele had to because he didn't trust his kick off a slow pace against the mid-d guys. I feel like I'm on repeat here.
How can Kipchoge be above Mo on the all-time best track runners list? He has only one major championship gold to Mo's 5. Here are their PB's:
|Distance|Farah|Kipchoge|
|1500m|3:28|3:33
|3000|7:30i|7:27
|3200i|8:03i|8:07i
|5000|12:53|12:46
|10000|26:46|26:49
For a guy who rarely time trials, Mo's got Kipchoge narrowly on times alone in my opinion. I'm giving Mo the nod on the 3000m because his 7:30 is indoor.
I see Lagat mentioned in these discussions as higher too, that's arguable in my opinion because of Lagats longevity but I'm still giving it to Mo in that matchup too. Mo has more Championship wins, fair enough Lagat had to compete with El G but when it comes down to it, Farah would've been able to compete with Lagat in the 1500m and 5000m but when it comes to the 10000, Lagat wouldn't have a hope.
I also think the argument of weaker competition is slightly flawed now, The 5000m has some of the fastest men in history running now. It's not as strong as the days of Geb, Tergat and Komen but there is depth there. The 10000 is a lost cause alright and is weak by past standards which helps Farah because it's his weakest event.
I still think that 2 mile performance by Mo will have the rest of the world pondering on how to beat him. What do they do? Go out hard and pace him the whole way or leave it to the sit and kick again? I think it was a brilliant decision by Salazar to put him out there in a 2 mile WR attempt. It lays down a marker for everyone else to worry about. What are they going to think if he goes sub-60 in Lisbon next month? Completely nuts if he does that back to back.
The argument for Goat will always be between Geb and Bekele for me and I don't think I'll ever be able settle on just one.
Bekele ran the last 2400 of the Olympic final in sub 6 minutes. Therefore for Mo to keep up he would have had to run sub 5 before the bell leaving him unable to use his 53-54 second speed. Fearing a complete collapse Mo would have been dropped prior to the bell in order to salvage a bronze medal battle with Edwin Soi.
Given that Kipchoge is 5 seconds slower than Mo over 1500m to me reaffirms Eliud's superior 5k fitness. Eliud did not have the luxery of sitting on a slow pace and then utilize a strong last 600m. Also Kipchoge was the only athlete able to last with Bekele in the Olympic final. He only ran one 10k in his life so you cannot use this as his 10000 potential. He is a sub 26.30 10km runner if he specialized at the distance.
Eliud is about 5 minutes faster than mo in the MARATHON or does that not count when taking about all time greats.
Only One world title you say: He beat Bekele and El G you do realize and picked up a bronze in 2004 as well as sliver in 2008 in a more competitive era.
There seems to be a series of Network of Errors in the posts that have popped up on this thread.0 -
Netwerk_Errer wrote: »Ah, Come on!:D How was Bekele being 1-2 seconds slower over the second last K my main point? It was one sentence.
My main point was a counterpoint that Farah couldn't live with a sub-5 pace over the last 2k which he definitely could in my opinion. You said in your first post that Mo would've been dropped with 600m to go and then in your second post, you changed your story to saying Mo would be there at the bell but wouldn't be able to run a 54 last lap which was the point I made.
I'm with walshb on this one:eek: and as I said in my first post, the comparison is unfair because Mo has never needed to run from that far out in a championship race. Bekele had to because he didn't trust his kick off a slow pace against the mid-d guys. I feel like I'm on repeat here.
How can Kipchoge be above Mo on the all-time best track runners list? He has only one major championship gold to Mo's 5. Here are their PB's:
|Distance|Farah|Kipchoge|
|1500m|3:28|3:33
|3000|7:30i|7:27
|3200i|8:03i|8:07i
|5000|12:53|12:46
|10000|26:46|26:49
For a guy who rarely time trials, Mo's got Kipchoge narrowly on times alone in my opinion. I'm giving Mo the nod on the 3000m because his 7:30 is indoor.
I see Lagat mentioned in these discussions as higher too, that's arguable in my opinion because of Lagats longevity but I'm still giving it to Mo in that matchup too. Mo has more Championship wins, fair enough Lagat had to compete with El G but when it comes down to it, Farah would've been able to compete with Lagat in the 1500m and 5000m but when it comes to the 10000, Lagat wouldn't have a hope.
I also think the argument of weaker competition is slightly flawed now, The 5000m has some of the fastest men in history running now. It's not as strong as the days of Geb, Tergat and Komen but there is depth there. The 10000 is a lost cause alright and is weak by past standards which helps Farah because it's his weakest event.
I still think that 2 mile performance by Mo will have the rest of the world pondering on how to beat him. What do they do? Go out hard and pace him the whole way or leave it to the sit and kick again? I think it was a brilliant decision by Salazar to put him out there in a 2 mile WR attempt. It lays down a marker for everyone else to worry about. What are they going to think if he goes sub-60 in Lisbon next month? Completely nuts if he does that back to back.
The argument for Goat will always be between Geb and Bekele for me and I don't think I'll ever be able settle on just one.
Bekele ran the last 2400 of the Olympic final in sub 6 minutes. Therefore for Mo to keep up he would have had to run sub 5 before the bell leaving him unable to use his 53-54 second speed. Fearing a complete collapse Mo would have been dropped prior to the bell in order to salvage a bronze medal battle with Edwin Soi.
Given that Kipchoge is 5 seconds slower than Mo over 1500m to me reaffirms Eliud's superior 5k fitness. Eliud did not have the luxery of sitting on a slow pace and then utilize a strong last 600m. Also Kipchoge was the only athlete able to last with Bekele in the Olympic final. He only ran one 10k in his life so you cannot use this as his 10000 potential. He is a sub 26.30 10km runner if he specialized at the distance.
Eliud is about 5 minutes faster than mo in the MARATHON or does that not count when talking about all time greats.
Only One world title you say: He beat Bekele and El G you do realize and picked up a bronze in 2004 as well as sliver in 2008 in a more competitive era.
There seems to be a Network of Errors in the posts that have popped up on this thread.0 -
Ghost in Cratloe wrote: »Bekele ran the last 2400 of the Olympic final in sub 6 minutes. Therefore for Mo to keep up he would have had to run sub 5 before the bell leaving him unable to use his 53-54 second speed. Fearing a complete collapse Mo would have been dropped prior to the bell in order to salvage a bronze medal battle with Edwin Soi.
Given that Kipchoge is 5 seconds slower than Mo over 1500m to me reaffirms Eliud's superior 5k fitness. Eliud did not have the luxery of sitting on a slow pace and then utilize a strong last 600m. Also Kipchoge was the only athlete able to last with Bekele in the Olympic final. He only ran one 10k in his life so you cannot use this as his 10000 potential. He is a sub 26.30 10km runner if he specialized at the distance.
Eliud is about 5 minutes faster than mo in the MARATHON or does that not count when talking about all time greats.
Only One world title you say: He beat Bekele and El G you do realize and picked up a bronze in 2004 as well as sliver in 2008 in a more competitive era.
There seems to be a Network of Errors in the posts that have popped up on this thread.
Kipchoge has run 4 10000m races in his senior career, all of which were setup as time trials on the fastest tracks in the world
Hengelo (26:49)
Hengelo (26:54)
Bruxelles (26:53)
Oregon (27:11)
I think I'm correct in saying outside of championships, more 10000m than Mo.
The letsrun article was about greatest track runner, not distance runner. Yeah, Kipchoge is a seriously fast runner but he doesn't have the titles to back it up. Yeah, he had to deal with Bekele and El G but he didn't even run the 10000m in championships, He saved himself for the 5k while El G and Bekele were doubling up.
Farah won back to back 10k/5k golds, Kipchoge wouldn't even run both. Saying that Kipchoge didn't have the ability to utilise a fast last 600m only confirms that Farah is a better all round track athlete. Not having the ability to kick is a weakness, not a strength in your argument.0 -
Netwerk_Errer wrote: »Kipchoge has run 4 10000m races in his senior career, all of which were setup as time trials on the fastest tracks in the world
Hengelo (26:49)
Hengelo (26:54)
Bruxelles (26:53)
Oregon (27:11)
I think I'm correct in saying outside of championships, more 10000m than Mo.
The letsrun article was about greatest track runner, not distance runner. Yeah, Kipchoge is a seriously fast runner but he doesn't have the titles to back it up. Yeah, he had to deal with Bekele and El G but he didn't even run the 10000m in championships, He saved himself for the 5k while El G and Bekele were doubling up.
Farah won back to back 10k/5k golds, Kipchoge wouldn't even run both. Saying that Kipchoge didn't have the ability to utilise a fast last 600m only confirms that Farah is a better all round track athlete. Not having the ability to kick is a weakness, not a strength in your argument.
Do your have the temperature, humidity and pollen count from them 'time trial' races of Eliud Kipchoge. You seem to cherry pick your data to fit the narrative of your argument. T Runner used to do the same thing before the Ghost banished him from the boards.0 -
Isn't this the same Mo Farah who at 20 years of age couldn't beat Chris Thompson to win a Euro U/23 5000m?
Farah has gone on to win everything in the sport but we are too quick to forget the Farah of 2004-2009 when BBC would dote on their only distance runner and lament all of his 'nearly made the final' performances at major championships.
Then, all of a sudden, he ditched the adidas gear and his one black spike and one white spike, went off to America, made some friends and Barcelona 2010 happened.
He is the only athlete out of that list of Komen, Bekele, Geb etc who wasn't already running out of this world in his early twenties. It took him to the age of 27 to 'realise' his greatness it seems. This also coincided with a coaching change, funny that.
I'd give Farah the greatest bull***t post-race celebration pose of all time.
Or greatest career transformation of all time, but not the greatest athlete of all time.
I know exactly what you are inferring and could not agree more. His and Dame Kellys transformations are fantastic but.........0 -
I know exactly what you are inferring and could not agree more. His and Dame Kellys transformations are fantastic but.........
Dame was mid 30s for hers. Farrah was late 20s for his. A I missing something? Did Farrah break 12 minutes for 5 k or something?
He's either slated for meeting nobodies or slated for getting PBs aged 27 and 28, and 30 or so.0 -
Dame was mid 30s for hers. Farrah was late 20s for his. A I missing something? Did Farrah break 12 minutes for 5 k or something?
He's either slated for meeting nobodies or slated for getting PBs aged 27 and 28, and 30 or so.
2014 13:23.42 Portland, OR 15 JUN
2013 13:05.88 Eugene, OR 01 JUN
2012 12:56.98 Eugene, OR 02 JUN
2011 12:53.11 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 22 JUL
2010 12:57.94 Zürich (Letzigrund) 19 AUG
2009 13:09.14 London (CP) 24 JUL
2008 13:08.11 Bruxelles 05 SEP
2007 13:07.00 Bruxelles 14 SEP
2006 13:09.40 Heusden-Zolder 22 JUL
2005 13:30.53 Solihull 25 JUN
2003 13:38.41 London 08 AUG
2002 14:00.5 Watford 14 AUG
2001 13:56.31 Solihull 23 JUN
2000 14:05.72 Solihull 19 AUG
There's Mo's progression over 5k since he was 17. He would've dominated nearly every American HS senior in history bar pretty much only Rupp. He came 8th in the World Junior XC in 1999 in which Bekele won. I'm with walshb again, people act like he came from nowhere. Did he get help, I don't know but I sure as hell ain't going judge guilt by association, suspicion yes. Every person mentioned on this thread would be guilty if that was the case. They have all had murky associates.
Also as you can see before everyone jumps on the Salazar slating, Mo ran sub-13 the year before he joined Salazar.0 -
Netwerk_Errer wrote: »2014 13:23.42 Portland, OR 15 JUN
2013 13:05.88 Eugene, OR 01 JUN
2012 12:56.98 Eugene, OR 02 JUN
2011 12:53.11 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 22 JUL
2010 12:57.94 Zürich (Letzigrund) 19 AUG
2009 13:09.14 London (CP) 24 JUL
2008 13:08.11 Bruxelles 05 SEP
2007 13:07.00 Bruxelles 14 SEP
2006 13:09.40 Heusden-Zolder 22 JUL
2005 13:30.53 Solihull 25 JUN
2003 13:38.41 London 08 AUG
2002 14:00.5 Watford 14 AUG
2001 13:56.31 Solihull 23 JUN
2000 14:05.72 Solihull 19 AUG
There's Mo's progression over 5k since he was 17. He would've dominated nearly every American HS senior in history bar pretty much only Rupp. He came 8th in the World Junior XC in 1999 in which Bekele won. I'm with walshb again, people act like he came from nowhere. Did he get help, I don't know but I sure as hell ain't going judge guilt by association, suspicion yes. Every person mentioned on this thread would be guilty if that was the case. They have all had murky associates.
Also as you can see before everyone jumps on the Salazar slating, Mo ran sub-13 the year before he joined Salazar.
Thanks for the breakdown. Explains a lot for me.
Mo should have eased up in 2013 when breaking Cram's PB, and Cacho's European record. That race got a lot of people gossiping.0 -
Netwerk_Errer wrote: »2010 12:57.94 Zürich (Letzigrund) 19 AUG
Also as you can see before everyone jumps on the Salazar slating, Mo ran sub-13 the year before he joined Salazar.
I remember watching this race. He finished about 6th, well beaten, and he was ecstatic. It was a really big deal for him at the time. Hard to believe less than a year later he would suddenly be the man to beat, rather than a very quick also-ran at world level.0 -
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Dame was mid 30s for hers. Farrah was late 20s for his. A I missing something? Did Farrah break 12 minutes for 5 k or something?
He's either slated for meeting nobodies or slated for getting PBs aged 27 and 28, and 30 or so.
I think you have missed something. We have Irish junior athletes running comparable times to his junior times but I cant see them all of a sudden winning Olympic titles and running 3.28 for 1500M. Just my opinion. SNIP0
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