How British are You?

Cavehill Red · 16-04-2012 8:34am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why then does a simple explanation involve putting down 60 million people.

Did it?

Wibbs · 16-04-2012 8:36am

Doc Ruby wrote: »

There are numerous proposed genetic lines, often named after groups less than a thousand years old, which is biologically impossible, and none of which consider the archaeological evidence.

The point remains that the R1b marker in Ireland is a different one to the R1b marker in the Basque population. Scientists can tell the difference between the two samples. The average Basque is more Spanish than they think and their DNA is younger too. They're a cultural isolate, not that much a genetic one, or less than was thought.

Last glacial maximum - 19,000 years ago. Late glacial maximum, 13,000 years ago. R1b haplogroup 18,500 years ago or less.

Read your own links again. The dating of this gene is steadily getting younger and younger. Neolithic or younger.

The people of England.

Who on average are closer to us genetically than the Basques(and if you head down Cornwall way a lot closer). Naturally as we're geographically and culturally in each others pockets for thousands of years.

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 8:43am

Wibbs wrote: »

The point remains that the R1b marker in Ireland is a different one to the R1b marker in the Basque population. Scientists can tell the difference between the two samples. The average Basque is more Spanish than they think and their DNA is younger too. They're a cultural isolate, not that much a genetic one, or less than was thought.

Read your own links again. The dating of this gene is steadily getting younger and younger. Neolithic or younger.

Who on average are closer to us genetically than the Basques(and if you head down Cornwall way a lot closer). Naturally as we're geographically and culturally in each others pockets for thousands of years.

Are you suggesting that genetic similarity between myself (for example) and a person residing in the area now knows as England makes me more British than someone with more distinct genetic makeup?

I would define Britishness as a political viewpoint since the Britain doesn't exist as a county and is a political entity steming from the Acts of Union 1707.

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 8:43am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Did it?

You couldn't resist the "the whole world Hates the Brits, but love the Irish" dig, despite the fact that the Irish play a part in our poor reputation.

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 8:46am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You couldn't resist the "the whole world Hates the Brits, but love the Irish" dig, despite the fact that the Irish play a part in our poor reputation.

Yes, because we let on were English when we get ourselves in trouble...
Its all a conspiracy!

Welsh Megaman · 16-04-2012 8:52am

Very!

Wibbs · 16-04-2012 9:02am

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Are you suggesting that genetic similarity between myself (for example) and a person residing in the area now knows as England makes me more British than someone with more distinct genetic makeup?

Christ no. All I'm doing is suggesting the idea of our insular "Celtic" blood that's very closely related to the Basques is more myth than reality. Just like many English people might think of themselves as Saxon, but chances are very high they're not, or if they are it's a teeny tiny percentage. We're not Celts, nor are we that much of an "ancient" isolated group.

I would define Britishness as a political viewpoint since the Britain doesn't exist as a county and is a political entity steming from the Acts of Union 1707.

I'd agree with that alright.

Cavehill Red · 16-04-2012 9:11am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You couldn't resist the "the whole world Hates the Brits, but love the Irish" dig, despite the fact that the Irish play a part in our poor reputation.

Hmmm. Don't think the Irish can take the blame for the annual trashing of Ayia Napa, Malia, Kusadasi, etc, etc. Nor the three lions rampages at soccer tournaments. Nor the incursions into sovereign Iraq and Afghanistan, complete with appalling civilian casualties. Nor any of the contemporary reasons the British are unwelcome visitors across large swathes of the planet.
But I look forward to your attempts to explain why that's all our fault. Should be amusing.

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 9:14am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Hmmm. Don't think the Irish can take the blame for the annual trashing of Ayia Napa, Malia, Kusadasi, etc, etc. Nor the three lions rampages at soccer tournaments. Nor the incursions into sovereign Iraq and Afghanistan, complete with appalling civilian casualties. Nor any of the contemporary reasons the British are unwelcome visitors across large swathes of the planet.
But I look forward to your attempts to explain why that's all our fault. Should be amusing.

To be fair some Irish people make dicks out of themselves in Santa Ponsa etc. and some Irish people were involved in the murder and destruction in the middle east.

Cavehill Red · 16-04-2012 9:16am

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

To be fair some Irish people make dicks out of themselves in Santa Ponsa etc. and some Irish people were involved in the murder and destruction in the middle east.

To be entirely fair, the number of Irish people arrested for anti-social behaviour abroad is extremely small, as the Dept of Foreign Affairs will attest. Furthermore, any Irish involved in the murder and destruction of the Middle East are acting as military operatives of the British (or possibly US) army, not the Irish Army, under orders from the British government (or American) not the Irish government. And there aren't very many of them either.

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 9:27am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

To be entirely fair, the number of Irish people arrested for anti-social behaviour abroad is extremely small, as the Dept of Foreign Affairs will attest. Furthermore, any Irish involved in the murder and destruction of the Middle East are acting as military operatives of the British (or possibly US) army, not the Irish Army, under orders from the British government (or American) not the Irish government. And there aren't very many of them either.

Actually, the Irish voted for the intervention in Afghanistan and a military presence there so yes, the Irish are very much involved in what is happening over there.

As for anti social behaviour abroad, you should see the drunken chavs running around Banalmadena in their Celtic, Man U and Liverpool shirts.....

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 9:29am

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Yes, because we let on were English when we get ourselves in trouble...
Its all a conspiracy!

See above. The Spanish naturally believe that any drunken scumbag in a Man U or Celtic shirt is British.

KeithAFC · 16-04-2012 9:30am

Didn't Gerry Adams apologise not long ago to native Americans because of the Irish involvement in the killing of Native Americans?

Cavehill Red · 16-04-2012 9:33am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Actually, the Irish voted for the intervention in Afghanistan and a military presence there so yes, the Irish are very much involved in what is happening over there.

How many Irish citizens incidentally do you believe are involved in Afghanistan? I can inform you that there are 7 Irish military personnel based in Kabul in strictly non-combatant roles, no Gardai whatsoever, and that all other Irish there are aid workers. So no, actually, the Irish aren't involved in Britain's latest colonial enterprise.
And Iraq?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

As for anti social behaviour abroad, you should see the drunken chavs running around Banalmadena in their Celtic, Man U and Liverpool shirts.....

And yet, despite getting drunk, they don't commit the anti-social behaviour so widely associated with the British. Fewer than 300 Irish citizens were arrested abroad last year, only a fraction of which related to anti-social activities.

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 9:59am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

How many Irish citizens incidentally do you believe are involved in Afghanistan? I can inform you that there are 7 Irish military personnel based in Kabul in strictly non-combatant roles, no Gardai whatsoever, and that all other Irish there are aid workers. So no, actually, the Irish aren't involved in Britain's latest colonial enterprise.
And Iraq?

And yet, despite getting drunk, they don't commit the anti-social behaviour so widely associated with the British. Fewer than 300 Irish citizens were arrested abroad last year, only a fraction of which related to anti-social activities.

Ireland voted for ISAF at the UN, it has a military presence there. Ireland is involved. The fact that Ireland choses to underspend on its armed forces means they can't play an active role, that is all.

Iraq was a religious crusade from a man who is frankly no longer involved in British politics.

Cavehill Red · 16-04-2012 10:16am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ireland voted for ISAF at the UN, it has a military presence there. Ireland is involved. The fact that Ireland choses to underspend on its armed forces means they can't play an active role, that is all.

Yet, Ireland is more than able to provide plenty of men for UN peacekeeping duties in a number of other places. Don't be silly, Fred. There are 7 non-combatant Irish military in a Kabul office. That's all there ever has been. We aren't involved, any more than Iceland are involved in Britain's failing conquest of the Kush.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Iraq was a religious crusade from a man who is frankly no longer involved in British politics.

So why are you still there then, killing the locals and making yourselves unpopular with the Muslim world? Oh, I forgot. It's probably our fault somehow?

Latchy · 16-04-2012 10:22am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

As for anti social behaviour abroad, you should see the drunken chavs running around Banalmadena in their Celtic, Man U and Liverpool shirts.....

Not to mention Pompey ,Chelsea and any other team you care to mention . It's sad that the football top has become a symbol of trouble even if it's just worn by many as a ' casual ' fashion statement .

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 10:23am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Yet, Ireland is more than able to provide plenty of men for UN peacekeeping duties in a number of other places. Don't be silly, Fred. There are 7 non-combatant Irish military in a Kabul office. That's all there ever has been. We aren't involved, any more than Iceland are involved in Britain's failing conquest of the Kush.

its not Britain's conquest, it is a UN operation, one which THE IRISH VOTED FOR AT THE UN AND CONTRIBUTE MILITARY MAN POWER TO. what is difficult to understand about that?

Cavehill Red wrote: »

So why are you still there then, killing the locals and making yourselves unpopular with the Muslim world? Oh, I forgot. It's probably our fault somehow?

You should really get with the programme.

Cavehill Red · 16-04-2012 10:27am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

its not Britain's conquest, it is a UN operation, one which THE IRISH VOTED FOR AT THE UN AND CONTRIBUTE MILITARY MAN POWER TO. what is difficult to understand about that?

Your assertion that the Irish are involved in combat with Afghans on their sovereign soil when we have no combatants there, only aid workers.
As for 'it's not Britain's conquest', well that's true enough. The locals are cleaning you out, as they've done to all invaders since Alexander.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You should really get with the programme.

This programme, you mean? No thanks. I'm proud my nation isn't involved in your bloodbath.

FYI: You never left.

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 10:31am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

its not Britain's conquest, it is a UN operation, one which THE IRISH VOTED FOR AT THE UN AND CONTRIBUTE MILITARY MAN POWER TO. what is difficult to understand about that?

You should really get with the programme.

Just because the killing has ended doesn't mean it didn't happen.
http://www.eirigi.org/audio/xfactorhero.mpg

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 10:36am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

FYI: You never left.

Just like they were spotted in Fermanagh a few weeks back
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f9jidGo-4lU/T2N2mx_kQYI/AAAAAAAAAYA/oBCAtnIxoSI/s400/brits1.jpg

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 10:39am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Your assertion that the Irish are involved in combat with Afghans on their sovereign soil when we have no combatants there, only aid workers.
As for 'it's not Britain's conquest', well that's true enough. The locals are cleaning you out, as they've done to all invaders since Alexander.

NOT ****ING AID WORKERS.

The Irish, as in the people of Ireland, as in anyone who pays taxes here is supporting the ISAF operation in Afghanistan. how hard is that to understand? I know it is a bit difficult to comprehend, because there is a section of society here who enjoy being moralistic and criticising everything the British and Americans do, but I'm afraid this time you will have to accept that the Irish government is in full support of the ISAF mission in Afghanistan.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

This programme, you mean? No thanks. I'm proud my nation isn't involved in your bloodbath.

FYI: You never left.

and that proves my point. the typical "We're better than you" sort of thing i would expect.

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 10:40am

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Just because the killing has ended doesn't mean it didn't happen.
http://www.eirigi.org/audio/xfactorhero.mpg

err, are you seriously putting a link to the eirigi site on a semi serious discussion?

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 10:43am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

NOT ****ING AID WORKERS.

The Irish, as in the people of Ireland, as in anyone who pays taxes here is supporting the ISAF operation in Afghanistan. how hard is that to understand? I know it is a bit difficult to comprehend, because there is a section of society here who enjoy being moralistic and criticising everything the British and Americans do, but I'm afraid this time you will have to accept that the Irish government is in full support of the ISAF mission in Afghanistan.

I have yet to see any evidance of murders committed by Irish in the middle east.
I'm not saying that all British people are bad just because of their army, many decent people condemn the actions of the scum in Iraq and Afganistan, and to be fair many more would if it wasn't for the propaganda machine in the media over there.

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 10:44am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

err, are you seriously putting a link to the eirigi site on a semi serious discussion?

Eirigi made the video and it was removed from youtube etc. It is a collage of photos and video.

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 10:46am

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I have yet to see any evidance of murders committed by Irish in the middle east.
I'm not saying that all British people are bad just because of their army, many decent people condemn the actions of the scum in Iraq and Afganistan, and to be fair many more would if it wasn't for the propaganda machine in the media over there.

oh ffs.

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 10:46am

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Eirigi made the video and it was removed from youtube etc. It is a collage of photos and video.

eirigi are scum.

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 10:47am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

eirigi are scum.

Point taken

partyguinness · 16-04-2012 10:57am

I have been over in the UK for since July 2010 and unfortunately I have to put up with the BBC which is basically the national cheer leader. Nothing wrong with that but it does get quite sickening.

The BBC and media at any given opportunity they try to claim credit for, well anything:

"Great British this Great British that"..christ I thought we were bad in Ireland for trying to link ourselves with foreign achievements. In fact if they cannot link a British person with something, they do not want to know about it.

But the last week and all the talk about the Titanic was interesting.

If the sailing had been a success we would have the whole "Great British ship the Titanic, a truimph for British engineering blah blah blah we are great"

Hilariously, over the last week not one single BBC report or paper article have I seen the word "British" associated with the disaster. I pointed this out to my British wife and she could not deny it.

As Jeremy Paxman observed recently, the British like their heros...dead.

Just an observation...:)

Cavehill Red · 16-04-2012 11:00am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

NOT ****ING AID WORKERS.

The Irish, as in the people of Ireland, as in anyone who pays taxes here is supporting the ISAF operation in Afghanistan. how hard is that to understand? I know it is a bit difficult to comprehend, because there is a section of society here who enjoy being moralistic and criticising everything the British and Americans do, but I'm afraid this time you will have to accept that the Irish government is in full support of the ISAF mission in Afghanistan.

I forgot you're English. I'll go slowly for you. Seven. Non-combatant. blokes. in. an. office. Plus Irish Aid workers. That's the entire and complete extent of Irish involvement in Afghanistan and has been since your country and America decided to invade it.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

and that proves my point. the typical "We're better than you" sort of thing i would expect.

When it comes to not murdering Muslim civilians in other people's countries, yes. Yes, we are.
See, Fred. There is a REASON why the stereotype of the welcome Irish and unwelcome British exists. That reason is down to how the nationalities of both countries conduct themselves abroad. It's down to our not invading other sovereign nations and murdering their populace. It's down to our sports fans not destroying other nations' cities during tournaments. It's down to only a handful of Irish arrests abroad for antisocial behaviour each year compared to tens of thousands of your compatriots.
And that is why it is so important for the Irish to make themselves known as not British when we go abroad, because we do not want to be mistaken for rioting drunken louts whose government invades Muslim countries and murders the locals.

AEDIC · 16-04-2012 11:02am

My view on this is a bit simplistic and I dont apologise for that...

'British' is a term that most people dont identify as, most English will say they are English, most Scots will say they are Scottish and most Welsh will say they are Welsh before they will say they are British. A lot of people confuse 'British' with English and vise versa.

Most English, Scottish and Welsh people would probably answer the op the same way.... How British are you....not much.

NinjaK · 16-04-2012 11:14am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

eirigi are scum.

na, invading countries that kill millions throughout centuries are scum.

Fratton Fred · 16-04-2012 11:19am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I forgot you're English. I'll go slowly for you. Seven. Non-combatant. blokes. in. an. office. Plus Irish Aid workers. That's the entire and complete extent of Irish involvement in Afghanistan and has been since your country and America decided to invade it.

When it comes to not murdering Muslim civilians in other people's countries, yes. Yes, we are.
See, Fred. There is a REASON why the stereotype of the welcome Irish and unwelcome British exists. That reason is down to how the nationalities of both countries conduct themselves abroad. It's down to our not invading other sovereign nations and murdering their populace. It's down to our sports fans not destroying other nations' cities during tournaments. It's down to only a handful of Irish arrests abroad for antisocial behaviour each year compared to tens of thousands of your compatriots.
And that is why it is so important for the Irish to make themselves known as not British when we go abroad, because we do not want to be mistaken for rioting drunken louts whose government invades Muslim countries and murders the locals.

I guess the more personal the insults become, the more desperate the poster is.

partyguinness · 16-04-2012 11:20am

Over the past 20 years or so I have been to Spain on the usual package holiday and for some strange reason, we (the irish) like to play the 'holier than thou' approach when sneering at the English louts.

I have seen plenty of beer bellies in Arnott's GAA jerseys swanning around Salou or where ever and if I was Spanish, quite frankly, I would not tell the difference.

We look the same, speak the same language, eat the same food, drink the same beer. I have heard plenty of drunken Irish accents at night time embarrassing themselves.

Think of the scene in any irish bar in Sydney...and we think we are better!!

Happy Monday · 16-04-2012 11:21am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You couldn't resist the "the whole world Hates the Brits, but love the Irish" dig, despite the fact that the Irish play a part in our poor reputation.

Hmmm. Don't think the Irish can take the blame for the annual trashing of Ayia Napa, Malia, Kusadasi, etc, etc. Nor the three lions rampages at soccer tournaments. Nor the incursions into sovereign Iraq and Afghanistan, complete with appalling civilian casualties. Nor any of the contemporary reasons the British are unwelcome visitors across large swathes of the planet.
But I look forward to your attempts to explain why that's all our fault. Should be amusing.

Extraordinary rendition at Shannon Airport anyone?

Bush and Blair have both been guests of this nation.

As for drunken yobs refer to March 17 or any weekend in this country!

Wibbs · 16-04-2012 11:22am

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I'm not saying that all British people are bad just because of their army, many decent people condemn the actions of the scum in Iraq and Afganistan, and to be fair many more would if it wasn't for the propaganda machine in the media over there.

"Scum" is a bit rich dontcha think? The vast majority of the men and women on the ground are doing what they see as their duty and looking after their mates(like soldiers always have). The wider political stuff passes most of them by. If you're a working class kid from Huddersfield brought up on the jingoism you'll likely buy into it. It's all to easy to think you wouldn't but the main reason you don't is purely because of an accident of birth. Do I abhor what's going on over there? Hell yes. Do I think they should eff off out of it? Yes but put the UN peacekeepers in properly. Do I think the guys on the ground are scum? No. Just as I don't label the Taliban similarly.

partyguinness wrote: »

"Great British this Great British that"..christ I thought we were bad in Ireland for trying to link ourselves with foreign achievements. In fact if they cannot link a British person with something, they do not want to know about it

We're very similar that way. Same with any interview with some famous type "please please tell us you love the UK/Ireland. Even better if you've rellies here".

But the last week and all the talk about the Titanic was interesting.

If the sailing had been a success we would have the whole "Great British ship the Titanic, a truimph for British engineering blah blah blah we are great"

Hilariously, over the last week not one single BBC report or paper article have I seen the word "British" associated with the disaster. I pointed this out to my British wife and she could not deny it.

Yea lots of mentions of Belfast alright. Even Cork. "The paddies fecked it up"

Wibbs · 16-04-2012 11:28am

NinjaK wrote: »

na, invading countries that kill millions throughout centuries are scum.

Yea, but don't forget there were an awful lot of Irishmen involved in that empire building*. From top to bottom in the ranks too.

*Not just under the Union Jack either, but under the Stars and Stripes too. The US 7th cavalry in the Indian wars was damn near an Irish regiment, even down to it's regimental marching song.

mike65 · 16-04-2012 11:33am

partyguinness wrote: »

I have been over in the UK for since July 2010 and unfortunately I have to put up with the BBC which is basically the national cheer leader. Nothing wrong with that but it does get quite sickening.

The BBC and media at any given opportunity they try to claim credit for, well anything:

"Great British this Great British that"..christ I thought we were bad in Ireland for trying to link ourselves with foreign achievements. In fact if they cannot link a British person with something, they do not want to know about it.

Irish Times, Irish Independent, to be serious for a moment the Great British Bake-Off type titles seem to spring out of nowhere about 4 years ago, not sure why. For decades the BBC cowered from notions of the British nation, being so Politically Correct and "nation speak unto nation" in tone but I guess someone spotted a gap in the market and decided that the British were allowed to feel good about themselves on the telly, if an Irishman has a problem with that they should stop watching.

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 11:36am

Wibbs wrote: »

"Scum" is a bit rich dontcha think? The vast majority of the men and women on the ground are doing what they see as their duty and looking after their mates(like soldiers always have). The wider political stuff passes most of them by. If you're a working class kid from Huddersfield brought up on the jingoism you'll likely buy into it. It's all to easy to think you wouldn't but the main reason you don't is purely because of an accident of birth. Do I abhor what's going on over there? Hell yes. Do I think they should eff off out of it? Yes but put the UN peacekeepers in properly. Do I think the guys on the ground are scum? No. Just as I don't label the Taliban similarly.

Possibly decades ago they were just dumb kids who didn't know any better but I think that every soldier who went into Iraq went there knowing what was happening there and prepared to kill. I know of one guy who served in Belfast in the 70's and said that he knew what they were doing was wrong but accepted it as necessary to "keep his country safe". That sort of person is the lowest of the low IMO.

As for the Taliban, I don't understand their politics or their slant on their religion but what I do understand is that they have a right to fight back in their own country against foreign aggressors.

AEDIC · 16-04-2012 11:39am

'Possibly decades ago they were just dumb kids who didn't know any better but I think that every soldier who went into Iraq went there knowing what was happening there and prepared to kill. I know of one guy who served in Belfast in the 70's and said that he knew what they were doing was wrong but accepted it as necessary to "keep his country safe". That sort of person is the lowest of the low IMO.'

What you are describing there is every soldier in every army there ever was.... including the Irish Republican one...I dont see the point you are trying to make with that.

partyguinness · 16-04-2012 11:41am

Wibbs wrote: »

"Scum" is a bit rich dontcha think? The vast majority of the men and women on the ground are doing what they see as their duty and looking after their mates(like soldiers always have). The wider political stuff passes most of them by. If you're a working class kid from Huddersfield brought up on the jingoism you'll likely buy into it. It's all to easy to think you wouldn't but the main reason you don't is purely because of an accident of birth. Do I abhor what's going on over there? Hell yes. Do I think they should eff off out of it? Yes but put the UN peacekeepers in properly. Do I think the guys on the ground are scum? No. Just as I don't label the Taliban similarly.

We're very similar that way. Same with any interview with some famous type "please please tell us you love the UK/Ireland. Even better if you've rellies here".

Yea lots of mentions of Belfast alright. Even Cork. "The paddies fecked it up"

Oh I agree...we are bad alright..."tell me about your great-aunt who flew over Ireland"...but they are worse here! The difference I find is that, say RTE, will mention a link but the BBC will blatantly try to claim all credit. Some outlets cannot give Ireland any credit.

I recently saw an article about Saoirse Ronan which praised her to the high heavens. Now, and this is no joke, in a double page article there was not one single mention of her being Irish. She was referred to as "New York born actress". The author just could not bring himself to say Irish actress. Quite petty.

Even Ronan Keating is "London based singer..." for some reason that did not exercise me as much...:D

Yeah it was the shoddy rivets forged by the Paddies in Belfast and the sinister rogue ice berg that attacked the ship without warning. Lots of mentions about Belfast alright and the last stop being "Queenstown" which clearly was the kiss of death.

You would not think it but the ship was registered and sailed out of Liverpool (although it never actually docked there).

problemchimp · 16-04-2012 11:51am

I don't feel British in any way, no more than I feel Austrian or Tunisian.

fasttalkerchat · 16-04-2012 11:55am

AEDIC wrote: »

'Possibly decades ago they were just dumb kids who didn't know any better but I think that every soldier who went into Iraq went there knowing what was happening there and prepared to kill. I know of one guy who served in Belfast in the 70's and said that he knew what they were doing was wrong but accepted it as necessary to "keep his country safe". That sort of person is the lowest of the low IMO.'

What you are describing there is every soldier in every army there ever was.... including the Irish Republican one...I dont see the point you are trying to make with that.

That was in response to Wibbs' argument that "the guys on the ground buy into jingoism and are ignorant to politics and and believe they are just looking after their mates/doing their duty".
Most (but not all) Irish republican's went out with an aim and were politically motivated. They were not there to get off the dole or for an adventure. They did not knowingly seek to cause harm to innocent people.

There are exceptions to this. There are "republicans" who made profit. There are "republicans" who killed innocents or failed to safeguard innocent civilians. There are "republicans" who had no real political motivation or interest in the finer details of strategy.

who the fug · 16-04-2012 12:00pm

If I ever met one of these Brits I would be able to answer the question.

ejmaztec · 16-04-2012 12:05pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Oh I agree...we are bad alright..."tell me about your great-aunt who flew over Ireland"...but they are worse here! The difference I find is that, say RTE, will mention a link but the BBC will blatantly try to claim all credit. Some outlets cannot give Ireland any credit.

I recently saw an article about Saoirse Ronan which praised her to the high heavens. Now, and this is no joke, in a double page article there was not one single mention of her being Irish. She was referred to as "New York born actress". The author just could not bring himself to say Irish actress. Quite petty.

Even Ronan Keating is "London based singer..." for some reason that did not exercise me as much...:D

Yeah it was the shoddy rivets forged by the Paddies in Belfast and the sinister rogue ice berg that attacked the ship without warning. Lots of mentions about Belfast alright and the last stop being "Queenstown" which clearly was the kiss of death.

You would not think it but the ship was registered and sailed out of Liverpool (although it never actually docked there).

In one of the 48000 Titanic documentaries that's been on 24 hours a day for an eternity, I heard one guy say that the shoddy rivets and steel story was a myth, and that it was a one in a million fluke that the iceberg sliced the ship open.

CamperMan · 16-04-2012 12:07pm

I really dislike the British, not just the people, but the country, the government, the monarchy, etc. etc...

and unfortunately I was born in the UK and certainly not proud of it...

who the fug · 16-04-2012 12:09pm

CamperMan wrote: »

I really dislike the British, not just the people, but the country, the government, the monarchy, etc. etc...

and unfortunately I was born in the UK and certainly not proud of it...

Ed Miliband is on the Boards

CamperMan · 16-04-2012 12:11pm

who the fug wrote: »

Ed Miliband is on the Boards

who the frig is Ed Milliband?

just googled him..

ye.. I also dislike that nob

who the fug · 16-04-2012 12:13pm

CamperMan wrote: »

who the frig is Ed Milliband?

The above Sums him up.

ejmaztec · 16-04-2012 12:19pm

CamperMan wrote: »

who the frig is Ed Milliband?

just googled him..

ye.. I also dislike that nob

He wouldn't be regarded as truly British, being as his old man was an immigrant from Belgium, and his mother was Polish.

How British are You?

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