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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Sig/Gsg 1911

  • 11-05-2012 11:03pm
    #1
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭


    Starting to look into buying a .22 pistol but will hopefully import it myself all going well, looking at Germany but I need a few websites and was hoping that if anyone knows of a good one that they might post a link up here so I could check it out.
    Big thanks in advance.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    http://www.gsg-waffen.de/
    Main page for German sport guns.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #3
    .243
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭.243


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    http://www.gsg-waffen.de/
    Main page for German sport guns.
    they will only deal with the irish distribouter


  • #4
    kildare.17hmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    Tommyboy recently bought one he might be able to helP


  • #5
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    .243 wrote: »
    they will only deal with the irish distribouter

    And that is who???:confused:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #6
    BELOWaverageIQ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭BELOWaverageIQ


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    And that is who???:confused:

    http://www.gunshop.ie/
    Paddy Fagan.
    The only man to deal with when it comes to pistols in the R.O.I.


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  • #7
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    http://triebel-shop.com/index.php?cPath=857_865


  • #8
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    Bought one of these Gsg1911 and got a good deal on it, i'm one month now with the application starting to lose hope with the threads out there about this firearm, the 1911 frame i would of taught was one of the most popular firearms of all time and a regular turn up at compitition..fingers crossed.


  • #9
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    http://www.wapenhandelkuiper.nl/wapens

    http://www.huntershouse.dk/kat294-Brugte-pistoler-revolver/


  • #10
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    I am just in the door to find a letter refusing me for the GSG.....
    What to do now...


  • #11
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    Tackleberry. wrote: »
    I am just in the door to find a letter refusing me for the GSG.....
    What to do now...

    what reason did they give?


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  • #12
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    Tackleberry. wrote: »
    I am just in the door to find a letter refusing me for the GSG.....
    What to do now...

    Its not the end of the world , have you met with the super yet ? If not seek a meeting to put your case to him to licence it. What reason was given for the refusal ?


  • #13
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    to Quote the stand in superintendent

    "having examined the relevant legislation and consulted with our Ballistics Section, I am of the opinion that this is a restricted short firearm.
    Therefore,this licence application is not appropriate under current legislation."

    Guess the man man is allowed have an opinion....


  • #14
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    I assume you have had the magazines restricted to 5 rounds and told them so on the application ?


  • #15
    Merch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Merch


    A GSG1911 is one option I had not ruled out, considering one of my alternatives is a Sig .22 mosquito that is 90 odd percent reduction look of a fullsize sig 226, Im wondering what hope I might have.


  • #16
    juice1304
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭juice1304


    I would try for a meeting, there are plenty of lads have them so he can't really say it's restricted because once the mag is plugged it's not. I would try and get the point across that there are loads of them already licenced i'm sure he can check it on the pulse system if he is in doubt.


  • #17
    juice1304
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭juice1304


    Merch wrote: »
    A GSG1911 is one option I had not ruled out, considering one of my alternatives is a Sig .22 mosquito that is 90 odd percent reduction look of a fullsize sig 226, Im wondering what hope I might have.

    Don't waste your time with the Sig mosquito they are a ball of scrap.


  • #18
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    juice1304 wrote: »
    Don't waste your time with the Sig mosquito they are a ball of scrap.

    +1, rubbish.


  • #19
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    juice1304 wrote: »
    Don't waste your time with the Sig mosquito they are a ball of scrap.


    +1 to above...sig mosquito was the first pistol i bought and it broke my heart.... stay well away from it


  • #20
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    its not restricted i have one!!!! once the mags are plugged to take 5 rounds is unrestricted. i would request a meeting with the super and go explain my case. the main thing i would suggest is to go in with a cool head and stay calm and explain that you meet all the requirements to licence one.


  • #21
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    or you could go and get a very good gun thats on the list , namely the ruger mk2 or mk3 or browning buckmark and save yourself a lot of grief.


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  • #22
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    rowa wrote: »
    I assume you have had the magazines restricted to 5 rounds and told them so on the application ?
    EU Council Directive 91 477 EEC: Class B which is quoted on my bill of sale along with the info of a 5 shot only mag


  • #23
    Merch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Merch


    tommyboy26 wrote: »
    +1 to above...sig mosquito was the first pistol i bought and it broke my heart.... stay well away from it

    Apology for sidetracking the thread
    the above about the Sig is a shame as it looks like a nice pistol with a few safety features, I was a bit concerned of the sights as it looks like there is minimal adjustment and that the barrel length looks short, but also as it looks very "standard" looking, like the GSG1911, not that I've a problem with that, but maybe others would.
    I was set on a ruger mk3 but the price and concern of not getting licenced encouraged me to go for a cheaper starting pistol then maybe get a change of licence (Id have to look it up an FCA2).

    Was the issue/s? people experienced or are aware of regarding cycling or accuracy? or both/something else

    Hijack ended :)


  • #24
    tac foley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Tackleberry. wrote: »
    to Quote the stand in superintendent

    "having examined the relevant legislation and consulted with our Ballistics Section, I am of the opinion that this is a restricted short firearm.
    Therefore,this licence application is not appropriate under current legislation."

    Guess the man man is allowed have an opinion....

    As long as you have people in control of issuing firearms licenses based on opinion - often ill-informed - rather than facts, you will never have a satisfactory and equable fireams licensing system in place.

    tac


  • #25
    juice1304
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭juice1304


    You would far more likely be granted the mk3 as it is on the list in comparison to the others. That is what i am going for myself.:) Sweet gun one of the best rimfire pistols going in my opinion.


  • #26
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    tac foley wrote: »
    As long as you have people in control of issuing firearms licenses based on opinion - often ill-informed - rather than facts, you will never have a satisfactory and equable fireams licensing system in place.

    tac

    As soon as you hear a copper talking about the ballistics section you know you are in trouble. I don't know what the ballistics dept can say or add to the application anyway, its a standard .22lr as fired by any rimfire on the magic list.

    Have you phoned the firearms policy unit for their opinion ? The supers don't pay a blind bit of notice of them but it would be interesting to see what they say.


  • #27
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    A GSG 1911 .22 pistol with the magazine plugged to 5 shots is most definitely not a restricted pistol.

    Several lads in my club have them and there's no problem.

    If you go back to your Super with a letter from a dealer saying that the pistol magazines are plugged to 5 rounds or will be plugged to 5 rounds before you take possession of it, then there should be no problem. Or maybe even bring in the bill of sale and show him where it says that the mags are 5 round mags.

    The only thing that normally would make this a restricted firearm is if the magazine isn't plugged to allow it to only take 5 rounds.

    Try the letter from the dealer approach or the bill of sale approach and see where it gets you.

    Don't give up and leave it so. I'd keep trying if I were you.


  • #28
    Sparks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Tackleberry. wrote: »
    "having examined the relevant legislation and consulted with our Ballistics Section, I am of the opinion that this is a restricted short firearm.
    Therefore,this licence application is not appropriate under current legislation."
    As the others have said, this is incorrect; call the FPU and explain the situation to them. They may well be able to solve the problem quietly (ie. cheaply, permanently and effectively).


  • #29
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    A GSG 1911 .22 pistol with the magazine plugged to 5 shots is most definitely not a restricted pistol.

    Several lads in my club have them and there's no problem.

    If you go back to your Super with a letter from a dealer saying that the pistol magazines are plugged to 5 rounds or will be plugged to 5 rounds before you take possession of it, then there should be no problem. Or maybe even bring in the bill of sale and show him where it says that the mags are 5 round mags.

    The only thing that normally would make this a restricted firearm is if the magazine isn't plugged to allow it to only take 5 rounds.

    Try the letter from the dealer approach or the bill of sale approach and see where it gets you.

    Don't give up and leave it so. I'd keep trying if I were you.

    My bill of sale was included in my application and it clearly had printed on it info about the mag capacity only being 5 shot. But I'll will be trying to put this across again when ever I get the super on the phone... As I'm trying at the moment....


  • #30
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    Sparks wrote: »
    As the others have said, this is incorrect; call the FPU and explain the situation to them. They may well be able to solve the problem quietly (ie. cheaply, permanently and effectively).

    Rang the FPU tis morn talked to a nice man you explained to me that once I applied for a non Olympic pistol that i was at his mercy, and that when the gun was also not on the magic list which has some non Olympic pistols on it, it just was not going to help matters.
    He said its different everywhere he knows of lads that have them non restricted but that the different superindents veiw and that notting is nailed down and that the laws need to be changed again to fix the problem.
    He said to buy from the list or consider an appeal to the district court.
    Hmmm…


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  • #31
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    There used to be a clause in the commisioners guidelines that stated a .22 pistol could be considered for a non restricted licence if it was restricted to 5 rounds and had a barrel length of over 112mm (i think). I checked last night and this paragraph has been deleted, so it appears moves are afoot to restrict licenceable pistol to whats on the list alone.
    This was never the intention or reason behind the list so i am told, but once again the gardai have bent the rules to suit themselves.


  • #32
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    Here's a update : my mate also put in for one of the gsg1911 and guess what it was granted unrestricted today in the post but no sooner has he got it, he gets a phone call to say it now is revoked. It seems that the chef super stepped in over the super that signed it off... The revoke is in the post... Nuts


  • #33
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    Tackleberry. wrote: »
    Here's a update : my mate also put in for one of the gsg1911 and guess what it was granted unrestricted today in the post but no sooner has he got it, he gets a phone call to say it now is revoked. It seems that the chef super stepped in over the super that signed it off... The revoke is in the post... Nuts

    He has a good case in the district court there, what grounds are given for the revoking of the licence ? Its not a restricted firearm if its restricted to 5 shots. I didn't think a super could be overruled by a chief super, under the law the super is the person designated to make the decision if its a non-restricted firearm. Does that mean to get a licence in your district you have to get two thumbs up ? One from the super and another from the chief super ?


  • #34
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Some supers must have won their post in a raffle..haven't a clue:pac:


  • #35
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    rowa wrote: »
    He has a good case in the district court there, what grounds are given for the revoking of the licence ? Its not a restricted firearm if its restricted to 5 shots. I didn't think a super could be overruled by a chief super, under the law the super is the person designated to make the decision if its a non-restricted firearm. Does that mean to get a licence in your district you have to get two thumbs up ? One from the super and another from the chief super ?


    I guess because they can't decide between themselves whether it is or is it not restricted. Therefore can't decide what rank needs to make the call.


  • #36
    juice1304
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭juice1304


    I would ring the FPU as said before they are there for things of this very nature and they are pure gents and quite understanding. :) funny phone number though 01 6661911:confused::P


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  • #37
    Sparks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    That's the sort of mess that needs to go to the District Court, it sadly sounds like :(
    There's precedent for licencing GSG's; but if the case is lost, there'll be a court decision that would mean that a lot of people's licences will become void...


  • #38
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    juice1304 wrote: »
    I would ring the FPU as said before they are there for things of this very nature and they are pure gents and quite understanding. :) funny phone number though 01 6661911:confused::P

    Thats on page 2 of this thread. (FPU reply)


  • #39
    Rovi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    At the very least, this person needs to see if the 'Revoked' bit can be expunged from the record.
    As it stands now, and even if they throw their hat at this particular firearm and try for a different one or forget about it entirely, they must now tick the 'Yes' box to the "Have you ever had a firearm certificate revoked?" question in the Previous History section of the application form.
    This could be like a bad smell following them around for the rest of their shooting life :(


  • #40
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Not quite,the revoked recinded matter becomes irrevelant after think 12 years without any further incidents.Says so on the aplication forms,or did at least.

    Sounds again like another clusterFK..For a revockation there has to be a good reason,especially after just granting it.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #41
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,602 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Sorry to hear you were refused Tackleberry.

    Although I do not think that this firearm should require a restricted license I am not surprised that some of the PTB have decided that it should.

    Not so long ago I posted "Due to the look of the GSG some may argue that it should require a restricted license".


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  • #42
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Sparks wrote: »
    That's the sort of mess that needs to go to the District Court, it sadly sounds like :(
    There's precedent for licencing GSG's; but if the case is lost, there'll be a court decision that would mean that a lot of people's licences will become void...

    However a DC isnt a court of record..IOW it is on a case by case judgement of a district justice.What one judgement in Cork mightnt hold in Kanturk.They can say there is a decision by a judge somplace on a simmilar case,but a DJ isnt bound to follow it.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #43
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    However a DC isnt a court of record..IOW it is on a case by case judgement of a district justice.What one judgement in Cork mightnt hold in Kanturk.They can say there is a decision by a judge somplace on a simmilar case,but a DJ isnt bound to follow it.

    Its about time that the gardai simply give a security and background check on the applicant and the rest of the application is handled by a central all ireland office thats free of opinions and applys the law fairly.
    Its a postcode lottery and an inefficient mess at the moment.


  • #44
    dax121
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 463 ✭✭dax121


    rowa wrote: »
    Its about time that the gardai simply give a security and background check on the applicant and the rest of the application is handled by a central all ireland office thats free of opinions and applys the law fairly.
    Its a postcode lottery and an inefficient mess at the moment.
    +1 on that. imagine someone makeing a decision on ur application where their personal views dont come into play. just you meet all the requiremants you get your firearm. oh maybe one day :rolleyes:


  • #45
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    SOP in Europe. I remember going to the equivelency of the county council office in Germany to get somthing changed on my paperwork.

    Dealt with by a polite German civil servent and got chatting to him,quite unusual in itself,but maybe my Irish charm worked on him:p ,who stated quite clearly that he was anti gun.

    BUT as he said"That is my own personal opinion.Were it found out that because of my belifs I was causing trouble,I would be simply out of work in the civil service!"

    Blessed be the German beauracrat!!:pac: Somone who does their job efficently and at quarter the price of his Irish counter part.If all the correct boxes are ticked and the correct revelant paperwork is supplied.Sign off and stamp it,job done.After that it is somone elses problem.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #46
    newby.204
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭newby.204


    rowa wrote: »
    There used to be a clause in the commisioners guidelines that stated a .22 pistol could be considered for a non restricted licence if it was restricted to 5 rounds and had a barrel length of over 112mm (i think). I checked last night and this paragraph has been deleted, so it appears moves are afoot to restrict licenceable pistol to whats on the list alone.
    This was never the intention or reason behind the list so i am told, but once again the gardai have bent the rules to suit themselves.

    http://garda.ie/Documents/User/SI%20337%202009%20Firearms%20%28Restricted%20Firearms%20and%20Ammuntion%29%20%28Amendment%29%20Order%202009.pdf

    5. Article 4(2) of the Principal Order is amended—
    (a) in subparagraph (d) by the deletion of the word “rim-fire”, and
    (b) by the substitution of the following subparagraph for subparagraph
    (e)—
    “(e) the following short firearms designed for use in connection
    with competitions governed by International Olympic Committee regulations:
    (i) air-operated firearms of 4.5 millimetres (.177 inch)
    calibre;
    (ii) single shot firearms using 0.22 inch long rifle rim fire
    percussion ammunition;
    (iii) other firearms using 0.22 inch long rifle rim fire percussion ammunition provided that the maximum magazine capacity of such a firearm does not exceed five
    rounds and that the barrel length of the firearm is
    greater than 10 cm.”.


  • #47
    cw67irl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭cw67irl


    I was talking to a dealer ho imports these today and while the Gsg 1911 isnt on the old paper lst it is on the Garda Pulse system as an approved unrestricted 22 pistol, Your dealer should be able to confirm this with the Gardai for you!


  • #48
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    Tis been a long time 10 times in court and 5 actual days sitting but the final court date sat during the week and now waitng on the final result as the Judge will make his deccission later in early Sept.
    Kinda expecting another Lucy report..well hopefull of it.

    Love to tell everyone how it went but we willl have to wait till Sept, all i will say is William Eagn pulled a rabbit out of his hat that will haunt Garda Brooks for a long time.. looking forward to this judement.


  • #49
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    Sparks wrote: »
    That's the sort of mess that needs to go to the District Court, it sadly sounds like :(
    There's precedent for licencing GSG's; but if the case is lost, there'll be a court decision that would mean that a lot of people's licences will become void...

    Hopefully tis ends tomorrow..
    Apparently the State withness is being investigated by Gsoc because of his evidence, he was the only state witness so it has to go in our favour. Nargc played a big part in bringing this to light with the Commissioner and Dept of Justice
    Fingers crossed tomorrow is a good day.


  • #50
    Wadi14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    I have just read all the posts on this thread from start to finish. wow its more gripping than an episode of Love Hate at this stage. Good luck tomorrow Tackleberry . I have an application gone in for a Hammerli Xesse so waiting myself to see how it pans out.


  • #51
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    Mate told me that William Eagn has a date got this month (Oct) also for the High court challenge. Best of luck to all.


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