Cecelia Ahern - hack, PS, I hate you, you suck

LoLth · 03-02-2009 2:15pm

Tangents are fine and to be honest, to be expected in any debate. However, stop the insults to Cecelia Ahern, her parents or the OP. They are not relevant nor are the helping to prove or disprove the OPs argument.

Perhaps CDFM would like to start a new thread on the content of the current English Curriculum in schools. I personally have found the debate on this very interesting and would love to see it continue but if the insults continue, I'll have to lock the thread and we'll lose the flow of things so far.

in any case, enough insults. this isnt a political or celebrity forum. Discuss her work, not her personal life.

Nevyn · 03-02-2009 2:32pm

Moonbaby wrote: »

Have you actually ever read her though?

Yes ( I will read just about anything if there are no other options and cos I am curious, hurrah for the library tbh ), otherwise I could not have an opinion of her stuff and having read The Calling in "Irish Girls Are Back In Town", PS, I Love You and A Place Called Here; I still stand by my statement of
"they cut down perfectly good trees to print this dross".

Permabear · 03-02-2009 3:12pm

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Calina · 03-02-2009 3:34pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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Being able to read a car manual doesn't imply the ability to understand the contents of it or the ability to apply the knowledge contained there in. If it did, no one would ever have to call technical support for a computer related problem.

Permabear · 03-02-2009 3:53pm

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Calina · 03-02-2009 4:07pm

But the place for learning to write those manuals effectively is the English class, hence communication and why I object to literature (reading) getting higher priority in English to communication (writing).

livvy · 03-02-2009 4:10pm

i do agree Cecilia Ahern's stuff is dribble but in fairness there is a market for brainless dribble and absolutely loads of it out there - I did the read dribble books for a while. Would she be famous and loaded if she wasn't the daughter of a famous politician - i don't think so but on the other hand she does get a hard time purely for who she is. There are many many many more who write the same rubbish but dedicated threads don't exist.

Permabear · 03-02-2009 4:14pm

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CDfm · 03-02-2009 7:03pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm gonna be sick.

May you be trapped on a brokendown bus where the only reading material is P.S.I Love You

Calina · 03-02-2009 7:31pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The point which has been raised time and again in this thread is not that it does this, but that it fails to do this. If it were successful in this endeavour I very much doubt if we would be having this conversation.

donegalfella wrote: »

If someone can write an essay about, say, gothic archetypes in Wuthering Heights, she should have the expressive skills to write almost anything else as well.

I have to confess I find this an inexplicably naive statement. The problem with the Leaving Certificate syllabus at present is that it allows someone to be able to regurgitate an essay on gothic archetypes in Wuthering Heights without being able to write about anything much else skillfully.

In other words, the key point here is that for all its objectives, the English language syllabus for the Leaving Certificate, particularly at higher level is a FAIL. It allows students to buck its system because of the way its structured and I have some doubts about its ability to focus in on English as a tool for communicate particularly as it is so narrow in its outlook.

CDfm · 04-02-2009 2:16am

LoLth wrote: »

Perhaps CDFM would like to start a new thread on the content of the current English Curriculum in schools. I personally have found the debate on this very interesting and would love to see it continue but if the insults continue, I'll have to lock the thread and we'll lose the flow of things so far.

Thanks for the suggestion but I would have to do too much reading.:)

I really dont know enough on the current curricullum to do it justice.

CDfm · 04-02-2009 2:20am

donegalfella wrote: »

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That would make for an interesting debate- really because imprecise english skills must hold students back in getting good grades.

Permabear · 04-02-2009 2:52am

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Calina · 04-02-2009 9:10am

Have you really missed all the suggestions whereby English could be split into two subjects for the Leaving Certificate, namely communication and analytical skills and literature? It has been suggested several times now. Not only that, it has been suggested that the reading list needs to be re-appraised.

You see, what I get here is an overwhelming fear that if literature is separated off into a possibly optional subject, it will not be so popular.

The overwhelming impression I get is that there is some fear against reassessing the English course at Leaving Certificate and I wonder why particularly since it is failing in what should be its objectives, namely to open young minds to exploration and to teach them to express ideas and concepts clearly in the language. It has been leaving generations with hatred of the classics which seem to be mega popular around here, and, of course, there are literacy issues.

I think it's disingenuous to deny there's a problem here; I have voiced an opinion on what you could do to change this and currently the only criticism has been, grosso modo, to assume that just because the rest of the UK school curriculum is so different to the Irish system, it won't work. That lacks analysis in my opinion.

Where is the imagination and creativity here? Seriously, the only signal I am getting from you is that "it's fine, nothing needs to change" when it's not really that fine.

04-02-2009 4:22pm

While I've never (and will never) read Ahern (the moral objection of giving any cash to her family aside), I don't see the point of trashing the book, terrible as doubtlessly it is.

Permabear · 04-02-2009 4:44pm

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Tails142 · 30-10-2013 7:11pm

I was talking with a friend of a friend who went to Griffith College with Cecelia Ahern and reckons that she didn't write her own books, that they have been ghost written. Her basis is that she didn't show much talent for writing during the Journalism course and these novels all came out of left field once she had graduated. Went searching the net to see if there was any truth to this which has lead me to this thread, there isnt much else about it except for the OP's rant.

Sorry for dragging up an old thread, but I just want it recorded in the annals, should this ever be revealed to be true in the future, that I KNEW IT!! mwahaha

Harry Angstrom · 02-11-2013 3:19am

Tails142 wrote: »

I was talking with a friend of a friend who went to Griffith College with Cecelia Ahern and reckons that she didn't write her own books, that they have been ghost written. Her basis is that she didn't show much talent for writing during the Journalism course and these novels all came out of left field once she had graduated. Went searching the net to see if there was any truth to this which has lead me to this thread, there isnt much else about it except for the OP's rant.

Sorry for dragging up an old thread, but I just want it recorded in the annals, should this ever be revealed to be true in the future, that I KNEW IT!! mwahaha

It's been recorded in the annals, for good or ill..........

cloudatlas · 02-11-2013 2:28pm

Besides the fact that it annoys me to see people in this country do well because Mummy and Daddy gave them an introduction and not through sheer ability, talent... her book does exactly what it says on the tin, it's not purporting to be high minded... I try not to be a snob because it's good to see people reading instead of mindlessly staring at the television. The truth is these books are in high demand, there is a market for it... blame the yummy mummies and doe eyed teenagers, middle aged women in need of a lift...

Elmo · 02-11-2013 7:33pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

there is a market for it... blame the yummy mummies and doe eyed teenagers, middle aged women in need of a lift...

Women:rolleyes:

cloudatlas · 02-11-2013 7:50pm

Edit: Nevermind

D.Campbell · 02-11-2013 8:03pm

I have heard this said many times before , soar grapes or not I rather cut my arms off than give that family any of my hard earned money that I have left

Hootanany · 02-11-2013 8:12pm

It must be terrible living a lie.

D.Campbell · 02-11-2013 8:16pm

we are so forgiving bless our little hearts

Hedgemeister · 02-11-2013 8:41pm

I've never read any of her work but can identify with the 'sour grapes' aspect, something which thrives in Ireland, and I was totally unprepared for it when my first book went on sale in 2007. The viciousness and spite I experienced was not directed at the book or its content, but at me, the author.
We Irish like nothing better, it seems, than taking our fellow islanders down a peg or two; should they dare rise above a parapet that others set for us.
I call this the 'box' syndrome.
One must not attempt to raise the lid of the box one was born into, or there will be consequences.

I would warn any aspiring writers to develop a tough skin because once your work is 'out there,' well... you are fair game for this stuff.
Four books on, I still get the snide remarks in shops, resturants, etc, each idiot thinking they are hilarious with their put downs, but always claiming the same old thing, NEVER to have bought ANY of my books, but 'read one in a toilet somewhere'...'dont give up the day job,' etc.
But...thick skin or not, these remarks hurt, (but do not let them see it!)
I wonder how many young Writers/Artists gave up promising careers because of these snipes.

Hootanany · 02-11-2013 8:44pm

Do you still believe in Santa?

Elmo · 02-11-2013 9:08pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

Okay it wasn't supposed to be taken that way but out of interest who do you think her books are marketed to, what demographic?

I was joking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF2svZ-mlPk

Harry Angstrom · 03-11-2013 2:37am

Hedgemeister wrote: »

I've never read any of her work but can identify with the 'sour grapes' aspect, something which thrives in Ireland, and I was totally unprepared for it when my first book went on sale in 2007. The viciousness and spite I experienced was not directed at the book or its content, but at me, the author.
We Irish like nothing better, it seems, than taking our fellow islanders down a peg or two; should they dare rise above a parapet that others set for us.
I call this the 'box' syndrome.
One must not attempt to raise the lid of the box one was born into, or there will be consequences.

I would warn any aspiring writers to develop a tough skin because once your work is 'out there,' well... you are fair game for this stuff.
Four books on, I still get the snide remarks in shops, resturants, etc, each idiot thinking they are hilarious with their put downs, but always claiming the same old thing, NEVER to have bought ANY of my books, but 'read one in a toilet somewhere'...'dont give up the day job,' etc.
But...thick skin or not, these remarks hurt, (but do not let them see it!)
I wonder how many young Writers/Artists gave up promising careers because of these snipes.

There's hardly a writer anywhere who hasn't been criticised at some stage or another. Just out of interest, are you in the Cecilia Ahern genre of fiction?

Hedgemeister · 03-11-2013 11:54am

Constructive criticism of their work is welcomed by every writer.
I'm not familiar with Ms. Aherne's books, but I assume it's 'chick-lit,' being very far removed from anything I've managed to write.
Anyway, the best of luck to her and I hope further success follows.

D.Campbell · 03-11-2013 3:30pm

Hedgemeister wrote: »

I've never read any of her work but can identify with the 'sour grapes' aspect, something which thrives in Ireland, and I was totally unprepared for it when my first book went on sale in 2007. The viciousness and spite I experienced was not directed at the book or its content, but at me, the author.
We Irish like nothing better, it seems, than taking our fellow islanders down a peg or two; should they dare rise above a parapet that others set for us.
I call this the 'box' syndrome.
One must not attempt to raise the lid of the box one was born into, or there will be consequences.

I would warn any aspiring writers to develop a tough skin because once your work is 'out there,' well... you are fair game for this stuff.
Four books on, I still get the snide remarks in shops, resturants, etc, each idiot thinking they are hilarious with their put downs, but always claiming the same old thing, NEVER to have bought ANY of my books, but 'read one in a toilet somewhere'...'dont give up the day job,' etc.
But...thick skin or not, these remarks hurt, (but do not let them see it!)
I wonder how many young Writers/Artists gave up promising careers because of these snipes.

If you are referring to me and my soar grapes number one thank you for assuming I am Irish I was raised outside of Ireland and to be honest I am a very positive person in regards promoting and praising others peoples work or interests BUT I still would rather lose my arms than buy her book so please dont try to justify soar grapes in this case, I dont know you and I am sure your books are marvelous but nothing in this world would make me spend money that would in some way go to the AHERN clan if I had my way he would be in jail but yeah thats me, but bless her she can come on smiling all she wants I know who she is that will never change If she didnt want to back her father she had that choice but she did and said the last time on the late late show that it was UNFAIR that her father was mistreated by people hahaha if only it was April fools.

Compu Global Hyper Meganet · 03-11-2013 4:02pm

Objective standards have to be maintained. Whether or not she wrote the books or not, fair play to her for making so much money. But it's not "sour grapes" to point out that she ain't exactly the second coming of Joyce. A lot of great Irish writers out there; Colm Toibin, Colum McCann, John Banville amongst others. Nothing wrong with pointing out that their (unfortunately less lucrative) success is much more merited than hers.

Toby Take a Bow · 03-11-2013 4:02pm

Tails142 wrote: »

Her basis is that she didn't show much talent for writing during the Journalism course and these novels all came out of left field once she had graduated.

I don't really get why people think her books are ghostwritten. Journalism does not equal fiction writing but even if it did, I have rarely read any review that has praised her writing abilities. She (from the snippets I have read) trades in cliches, very simple writing that is designed as escapism. And she seemingly does it very well if the sales of her books are anything to go by.

And as for whether her family connections played a part in her success, they may have done so in getting her her initial publishing deal (as her name is recognisable in Ireland) but her deals and sales in Britain would suggest that she is trading on her own merits there.

Hedgemeister · 03-11-2013 6:36pm

D.Campbell wrote: »

If you are referring to me and my soar grapes number one thank you for assuming I am Irish I was raised outside of Ireland and to be honest I am a very positive person in regards promoting and praising others peoples work or interests BUT I still would rather lose my arms than buy her book so please dont try to justify soar grapes in this case, I dont know you and I am sure your books are marvelous but nothing in this world would make me spend money that would in some way go to the AHERN clan if I had my way he would be in jail but yeah thats me, but bless her she can come on smiling all she wants I know who she is that will never change If she didnt want to back her father she had that choice but she did and said the last time on the late late show that it was UNFAIR that her father was mistreated by people hahaha if only it was April fools.

I should have made myself clearer I suppose. I was not referring to you or any other posters here on this subject, but tried to make a particular point, generally speaking, one which I've had personal experience of, and without bringing politics into it.
Sincers apologies to any poster who thinks I was referring to them, personally.

PS - I love you all .:D

Sam Kade · 03-11-2013 6:39pm

What's the op's problem if he doesn't like that woman's books don't buy them or read them problem solved.

cloudatlas · 03-11-2013 6:48pm

Sam Kade wrote: »

What's the op's problem if he doesn't like that woman's books don't buy them or read them problem solved.

Well while I don't agree completely with the O.P. this is probably the most popular thread on the literature forum in recent times so it seems people have a gut reaction to these types of work

Dunlaffin · 08-08-2014 12:00am

Sam Kade wrote: »

What's the op's problem if he doesn't like that woman's books don't buy them or read them problem solved.

his problem is that its hard for decent writers to get published and its hard to take anyone seriously who deems that tripe as literature , let alone 'best seller'. it's just the hypocrisy of it all.

The only reason why it could have been a best seller is because of who she is and expensive PR.

Harry Angstrom · 08-08-2014 7:16pm

Dunlaffin wrote: »

his problem is that its hard for decent writers to get published and its hard to take anyone seriously who deems that tripe as literature , let alone 'best seller'. it's just the hypocrisy of it all.

The only reason why it could have been a best seller is because of who she is and expensive PR.

Sad fact remains though that shyte like that will fly off the shelves but literary novels need a Booker or Orange Prize nomination before they sell in any appreciable quantities, and even then the numbers are relatively low.

Summer wind · 20-09-2014 9:51pm

When I was a teenager about fifteen years ago there was a series of books by American authors. This book series was called sweet dreams as far as I remember.

One of them had the title ps I love you and the story was about a long distance romance between a boy who had cancer and a girl who lived hundreds of miles away.

They communicated through letters and at the end of the book the boy dies. When Cecelia Aherns book came out I thought it was very strange the two stories were so similar even having the same name.

What do you think?

Dub. · 14-03-2015 3:18am

Maeve Binchy was ghost writer for the first Ahern novel. She felt an ol` wan` like herself couldnt get away with writing `sexy` novels any more and needed a younger alter ego like the Ahern girl to continue flogging that stuff.

No idea who ghost writes the Ahern stuff these days.

karaokeman · 09-04-2015 5:17pm

I read Where Rainbows End

, and honestly, haters get your pitchforks people need to stop complaining. Every bestselling author doesn't have to be a Joyce (and why should they? That's far too much pressure). Its fun, holiday-type easy reading which some of us enjoy for the sake of escapism, and a certain amount of that is healthy just so long as its not all we look for in art.

15-04-2015 10:02am

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Sad fact remains though that shyte like that will fly off the shelves but literary novels need a Booker or Orange Prize nomination before they sell in any appreciable quantities, and even then the numbers are relatively low.

I know what you're saying, and it would be nice if literary novels got more promotion. But people read for different reasons. Sometimes I like a book that will challenge me, sometimes I like a book that is very easy and just distracts me pleasantly. I read a lot of heavy academic stuff at work, and fluffy light reads are a chance to leave my brain in neutral and just be carried along. It's the equivalent of an action movie, you know you're not going to see masterpiece cinema, and that's ok.

There's room for the Aherns of the world, as proven by the sales. I've never read her books, but they do serve a purpose and they don't infuriate me.

Chloris · 20-04-2015 3:47am

Clearly the sheeple are out en masse today. What kind of a person defends Celia Ahern's literary prowess? A very misguided one.

Interesting points about the ghost writing, something to think about certainly. That said, I have never so much as thought about actually reading any of that drivel. My main concern is that the sheer awfulness of it would send me on a killing spree.

Tigger · 20-04-2015 3:55am

Dub. wrote: »

Maeve Binchy was ghost writer for the first Ahern novel. She felt an ol` wan` like herself couldnt get away with writing `sexy` novels any more and needed a younger alter ego like the Ahern girl to continue flogging that stuff.

No idea who ghost writes the Ahern stuff these days.

Her newe book is called the ghost writer

zeffabelli · 20-04-2015 1:45pm

karaokeman wrote: »

I read Where Rainbows End , and honestly, haters get your pitchforks people need to stop complaining. Every bestselling author doesn't have to be a Joyce (and why should they? That's far too much pressure). Its fun, holiday-type easy reading which some of us enjoy for the sake of escapism, and a certain amount of that is healthy just so long as its not all we look for in art.

Well Joyce wrote some doozies. Someone should call him out on Finnegans Wake, talk about the Emperor's New Clothes. That book is awful.

Rabo Karabekian · 21-04-2015 8:08pm

Chloris wrote: »

Clearly the sheeple are out en masse today. What kind of a person defends Celia Ahern's literary prowess? A very misguided one.

I don't see anyone defending Ahern's 'literary prowess'. I do see people (or 'sheeple' as you say, a term which always suggests a reasoned and subtle mind) suggesting that they might not read Ahern for her use of language but as escape (so, you know, the opposite of 'literary prowess'). I have never read Ahern, but I definitely have a few authors that I read not for their use of language, but for their ability with characters, plot or ideas.

Chloris · 23-04-2015 3:31am

Rabo Karabekian wrote:

I don't see anyone defending Ahern's 'literary prowess'. I do see people (or 'sheeple' as you say, a term which always suggests a reasoned and subtle mind)

Eh, given that this thread quite astutely suggests that Cecelia Ahernia is a front for a cash cow series of novelic drivel, and people are vehemently opposing the suggestion, I stand by my reasoned and subtle implication that the majority of objectors have little more than Junior Cert Ordinary level English to support their... "claims".

Rabo Kaacnhxgbdv wrote:

suggesting that they might not read Ahern for her use of language but as escape (so, you know, the opposite of 'literary prowess'). I have never read Ahern, but I definitely have a few authors that I read not for their use of language, but for their ability with characters, plot or ideas.

Yeah, I see that. I suppose there are so few books out there in the vast, barren wasteland of earth that it's fair enough to settle for inarticulate f*ckwits' "characters, plot and ideas". That explains the popularity of the Bible pretty succinctly. Terrible language and syntax, especially for the present readers... but thank our Lord God Almighty that the story is gripping. By comparison with my suicide-worthy life anyway.

Have you heard of Classic literature? Start there, work your way up and then you can talk about plot. I mean, taste in literature is a matter of opinion, but you can still tell when someone's opinion is uninformed and worthless.

Conspiracy basically corroborated [/thread]

Chloris · 23-04-2015 3:35am

I digress, I was immediately deterred from being civil by the Vonnegut reference.

Chloris · 23-04-2015 3:38am

I'm only joking; Bluebeard in particular is a terrific novel. I'm actually quite drunk. But I stand by many of my utterances.

SpaceSasqwatch · 23-04-2015 4:17am

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

thats no excuse for reading sh1te, thats what lidl brochures are for....

Rabo Karabekian · 23-04-2015 7:00pm

Chloris wrote: »

I'm only joking; Bluebeard in particular is a terrific novel. I'm actually quite drunk. But I stand by many of my utterances.

Yeah, Bluebeard is great. I find Vonnegut hit and miss (pretty sure he did too).

My intention isn't to stick up for ahern. I've never read her, but from the bits I have read, she seems to be trading on cliche and scrapping the barrel of what a novel should be. I just don't think anyone is defending her 'literary prowess' as I don't think anyone thinks she has any.

As for classics, yes I'm well acquainted with (some) of them but not everyone is going to have your high standards. Next time you get drunk and spend that time on an Internet message board, it might be an idea to keep that in mind. Try to imagine that despite your enviable reading tastes, there is someone out there who is snorting at your idea of literature.

Cecelia Ahern - hack, PS, I hate you, you suck

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