The future of Cork's N40 South Ring Road

I think that many parts of it, especially the Douglas fly-over, could do with an 80 km/h limit. At key merging points like just after Kinsale Road flyover eastbound I often feel like all the traffic is racing just to get to / create a build up.
I'm also not a big fan of the fact that the main Douglas road exit slip-road is effectively right beside the mainline; it would be much preferable IMO to physically separate this from the main carriageway if at all possible (or perhaps to remove it altogether, and just have one exit at Douglas - this would mean that other routes would have to be upgraded).

Finally, not sure how feasible this is, but I've often thought it would be useful to have a bridge between Jacob's Island and Rochestown, but maybe this would create too much traffic at Mahon.

Tolling the road wont ease congestion.

Most people who use the N40 have no choice but to use it or else go into the City Centre.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Tolling will do wonders for the city if tonight is anything to go by.

Stop boy! Took me 2.16 hours to get home yesterday evening!

Similar happens at the Mahon slip. Probably the same people, come to think of it.

An article in de paper saying the flooding/traffic issue was because the operator of the road, who is paid well to operate it, hadn't a clue

There were numerous plans which were shot down by the NRA for Mahon. Eventually something substantial will have to be done.

kub wrote: »

Has anyone noticed how they tinkered with the lights from the N40 West bound onto the Kinsale Road Roundabout?

I noticed tail backs here before September on weekends, there are very long tailbacks now approaching the roundabout in the mornings.

Yeah they screed that big time. Tailbacks at random times over the weekend for no apparent reason. Tis mad.

Speaking of tunnel closures, I noticed advanced warning signs of a closure recently, I notice also these signs appear around the same time that i see puddles of water in the lowest part of the tunnel on dry days.

I suppose a few tubes of silicone need application

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

A completed North Ring Road in conjunction with an upgraded Dunkettle would have alleviated just about all problems on Thursday.

It's good to have alternatives in terms of traffic management.

Corks problem is both topographical but just as importantly in planning. Road and Street density drops significantly in the outskirts. This is expected but much worse than it should be. This puts enormous pressure on a low number of routes and junctions.

Pressure on the South Ring Road could be alleviated by a few new roads which are needed in the outskirts.

One last thing. Kinsale Roundabout should have been upgraded to free flow when it was being done. Access to Grange and Turners Cross blocked from the SRR. Instead have the road by Woodies go under the revised junction and carry onto Grange. Access to SRR by Mick Barry road only.

Marno. Just taking up from the other thread. I think my last paragraph is what should have been done with the Kinsale Roundsbout.

In addition, the old Kinsale Road - Grange road which would have lost direct access to the Kinsale Roundabout, should have a spur off it going from roughly where Little Chef was to somewhere in Douglas West. Take more cars off the SRR and an alternative route.

Road planning in the outskirts of Cork city is appealing. Truly awful. All development is along existing routes.

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Over-capacity-N40-a-major-issue-8f5c9eff-1e0e-42e8-8481-e78a77965325-ds

Over capacity N40 a major issue - nothing new in there - and no real solutions being pushed either.

If you think about it, it's like the M50 except smaller and further south.
There's no other reasonable way to transit from anywhere like Glanmire, Carrigtwohill, Fermoy, Midleton, etc to Ringaskiddy, Airport or Ballincollig employment areas. The ferry can be used but it's relatively slow and expensive.

There's no other reasonable way to transit from Carrigaline, Douglas, Wilton, Ballincollig, Douglas to Little Island or Carrigtwohill employment areas.

We've got a car-dependent transport link between NE to SW with no reasonable alternative method of transport for a large percentage of end users. It gets worse when you consider that all of the existing housing areas are being expanded by significant amounts.

NRR would be a big help. Any thoughts on including space on the NRR infrastructure for public transport: making the bridges and tunnels wider to accommodate rail or dedicated bus lanes?
Similarly, thoughts on a public transport link with hubs at Dunkettle and Ballincollig, using the N40 SRR?

Topography and road layout are huge issues in Cork.

No bridge between Michael Collins bridge and the tunnel. No viable north south route between Douglas and where a new bridge will cross the Lee around Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

No scope to build any bridge between Passage and Rushbrooke.

NRR will help but not a huge amount IMO.

That said, linking the future M20 with the M8 is probably more beneficial than linking the M20 with the N22 at Ballincollig. But realistically, both of these things are needed.

mydiscworld wrote: »

Why can't this be done? Small stretch of water but need a bridge that allows boats to pass

When I say scope, I actually meant will.

My view is that a tidal barrier / bridge could be built in one go between Passage and Rushbrooke. The road would also need upgrading between Rushbrooke and The N25.

mydiscworld wrote: »

Why can't this be done? Small stretch of water but need a bridge that allows boats to pass

I don't think theres any reason it couldn't be done, but it would have to be a very high level bridge. It would be cheaper probably to build the North Ring in its entirety and abandon the South Ring than it would to bypass the South Ring by hopping onto Cobh. And also, where would you put a motorway to link up Cobh/Rushbrook to the N25, without destroying Fota Island anyway.

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I don't think theres any reason it couldn't be done, but it would have to be a very high level bridge. It would be cheaper probably to build the North Ring in its entirety and abandon the South Ring than it would to bypass the South Ring by hopping onto Cobh. And also, where would you put a motorway to link up Cobh/Rushbrook to the N25, without destroying Fota Island anyway.

There actually is room to the east of Fota estate. The bridges are the choke points.

If you look at Cork geographically, there's an absolute fortune of undeveloped space on Great Island, with a rail line but poor quality road.

Long-term there will need to be a tidal barrier, so beginning that action by creating a new route between Rossleague and Weir Island is one way to go.

Tender issued today (on a Sunday of all days!) for N40 Ten T Transport Infrastructure Improvement Project;

Not sure what the scope here is really, a quick search for the project name only throws up this document;

From the brief:

The N40 Cork South Ring Road (SRR) is a National Primary Road that runs between the Dunkettle Interchange to the east of Cork City and the Poulavone Interchange (N22) to the southwest of Cork City and encompasses 11 grade separated junctions. The purpose of the scheme is:

To identify the impact on the N40 of the scheduled completion of the committed Dunkettle Interchange Upgrade Scheme and any potential issues that may result following its implementation

To assess the deficiencies of the existing N40 Transportation Corridor and identify the potential solutions to existing problems including deficiencies that may compromise its resilience as a Core TEN T route.

To assess and identify impacts and potential mitigation measures that may be required on the N40 Transportation Corridor following from completion of planned complementary schemes and projected population growth envisaged for the region within the context of the Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy (CMATS) 

This bit sounds strange to me: " To identify the impact on the N40 of the scheduled completion of the committed Dunkettle Interchange Upgrade Scheme and any potential issues that may result following its implementation " Surely this should have been done before Dunkettle started? And surely we already know that the N40 is in trouble soon after Dunkettle and M28 are done? Is it not a bit late to be analysing our purchase decision, after we have purchased?

At least they might address the elephant in the room: "the deficiencies of the existing N40 Transportation Corridor" as they describe it is the high level of car dependency, directly resulting from poor planning and sprawl which was largely facilitated by....the building of the N40.

I know I keep harping on about it, but if it's easier, cheaper and faster to drive than to use sustainable transport, then people are going to drive. And more N40 capacity will mean more of same. The volumes of traffic on the N40 in a city as small as Cork aren't normal.

Exactly.

There Is No Alternative.

They can play around with the N40 all they want, but the lack of alternatives to the N40 itself is the problem. It can't do both bypass and distributor.

Also, build the North Ring Road to complete the N40 ring and give cross-city traffic an alternative to going through Douglas or the city centre (with or without a toll on the tunnel to push them that way).