Landcruiser 7 seat passenger reg change

gofaster_s13 · 12-08-2014 6:23pm

strange john wrote: »

Why, when it's still a commercial?

VRT was payed on a two seat commercial at either the €50 or €200 rate and VRT as a 5 seat commercial should be at 13.3% of the omsp so when you put seats into a commercial to make it a 5 seater revenue deem you to have increased the value of the vehicle and will charge you 13.3% of what the current omsp of your 5 seat commercial is.

ubs69 · 12-08-2014 9:39pm

Yes that's what they said to me , when I told them it's still commercial , they said it's worth more as a crewcab and so charged me the 13.5 %

strange john · 13-08-2014 8:34am

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

VRT was payed on a two seat commercial at either the €50 or €200 rate and VRT as a 5 seat commercial should be at 13.3% of the omsp so when you put seats into a commercial to make it a 5 seater revenue deem you to have increased the value of the vehicle and will charge you 13.3% of what the current omsp of your 5 seat commercial is.

Every day's a school day!

gofaster_s13 · 13-08-2014 9:10am

ubs69 wrote: »

Yes that's what they said to me , when I told them it's still commercial , they said it's worth more as a crewcab and so charged me the 13.5 %

Revenue are working off a list of the submitted conversions also and the penalties and fines for undeclared conversions are frightening.

Guy:Incognito · 13-08-2014 7:34pm

Popoutman wrote: »

Is there a list of vehicles that are suitable for the "conversion" to N1?
So far I've seen references to:
o Toyota Landcruiser
o Isuzu Trooper
o Landrover Disco TD5

It seems as though there could be a few more machines that would qualify for the (800mm door height+12800cm^2 rear door area) and 30% of wheelbase. I'm trying to dig through manufacturer specs and dimensions and I think that I might have a few more:

o Mercedes GL
o Audi Q7 (possibly - can't get the door height but it looks longer than 800 with the angle)
o Mercedes R-Class - depends if the measurement is the actual door height or door aperture height
o Renault Grand Espace

Any other contenders that we know of that could be 5-seater and commercially taxed under the revised regulations?

There are crew cab Kia Sedonas knocking around a few years.

quietsailor · 14-08-2014 5:12pm

Popoutman wrote: »

Is there a list of vehicles that are suitable for the "conversion" to N1?
So far I've seen references to:
o Toyota Landcruiser
o Isuzu Trooper
o Landrover Disco TD5

It seems as though there could be a few more machines that would qualify for the (800mm door height+12800cm^2 rear door area) and 30% of wheelbase. I'm trying to dig through manufacturer specs and dimensions and I think that I might have a few more:

o Mercedes GL
o Audi Q7 (possibly - can't get the door height but it looks longer than 800 with the angle)
o Mercedes R-Class - depends if the measurement is the actual door height or door aperture height
o Renault Grand Espace

Any other contenders that we know of that could be 5-seater and commercially taxed under the revised regulations?

I'm not converting anything myself but from reading this post a thought popped into my head - Looking at the bits in bold above about the door heights and if the door is at an angle - are they talking 800mm vertically or just 800mm door "height" - even if the door is at an angle off the vertical.

The drawing will explain it better

DirtyDiesels · 21-08-2014 12:11am

ubs69 wrote: »

And now my trooper is done ! From a two seater commercial to 5 seater crew cab

What model trooper do ye have, thinking of getting me own done, ive a 96 3.1 Bighorn

ubs69 · 21-08-2014 7:15am

DirtyDiesels wrote: »

What model trooper do ye have, thinking of getting me own done, ive a 96 3.1 Bighorn

Same as yours

DirtyDiesels · 22-08-2014 2:23am

ubs69 wrote: »

Same as yours

nice one cheers!

Hootanany · 07-09-2014 1:06pm

Any update on the Range Rover commercial that was mentioned?

no12 · 07-09-2014 8:18pm

I have seen in the last few weeks a BMW X5 06 get changed and a Range Rover Vogue 06. The fella who got the Range Rover done was told the 3.0 ones are ok (up to 2006) but the 3.6 model don't meet the criteria. But I have seen a couple floating around on Donedeal that have been done like this one:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/7620426
Land Rover Range Rover Vogue

Casati · 07-09-2014 9:30pm

no12 wrote: »

I have seen in the last few weeks a BMW X5 06 get changed and a Range Rover Vogue 06. The fella who got the Range Rover done was told the 3.0 ones are ok (up to 2006) but the 3.6 model don't meet the criteria. But I have seen a couple floating around on Donedeal that have been done like this one:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/7620426
Land Rover Range Rover Vogue

How would 5 seaters like the RR or X5 qualify- i.e the one in the pic still has the 3 seat belt in the back, and this would not have been a 7 seater to begin it? I thought you had to reduce the number of seats to get the classification approved?

Hootanany · 08-09-2014 9:09am

no12 wrote: »

I have seen in the last few weeks a BMW X5 06 get changed and a Range Rover Vogue 06. The fella who got the Range Rover done was told the 3.0 ones are ok (up to 2006) but the 3.6 model don't meet the criteria. But I have seen a couple floating around on Donedeal that have been done like this one:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/7620426
Land Rover Range Rover Vogue

Where did you see them would love an X5 one?

whelan2 · 28-09-2014 9:08am

looking at a landcruiser, it has been changed to commercial, has 5 seats. nct is up in february, as it is now commercial should i get the garage to doe it before i buy it or will the nct suffice?

ubs69 · 28-09-2014 11:05am

whelan2 wrote: »

looking at a landcruiser, it has been changed to commercial, has 5 seats. nct is up in february, as it is now commercial should i get the garage to doe it before i buy it or will the nct suffice?

It should have the cvrt done on it if it's been reregisterd

whelan2 · 28-09-2014 11:16am

ubs69 wrote: »

It should have the cvrt done on it if it's been reregisterd

did a cartell type check on it and it was changed to commercial in august. Seller said theres a year doe when we rang him again this morning, anything else to watch out for, thanks

ubs69 · 28-09-2014 11:57am

The usual car checks and I think you may need commercial insurance on it

whelan2 · 08-10-2014 3:07pm

do yo still need to have the dog guard /screen in the back?

tmboy95 · 08-10-2014 4:05pm

Ya as far as I know you have to have a certified dog guard in place or else besides failing mot, the traffic core would haunt you.

ubs69 · 08-10-2014 4:21pm

tmboy95 wrote: »

Ya as far as I know you have to have a certified dog guard in place or else besides failing mot, the traffic core would haunt you.

No it's not needed , you can have it either way 1 a metal bulkhead to seperate load area or 2 you install secure anchor points x4 and have ce certified ratchet straps installed

DirtyDiesels · 16-10-2014 1:44am

Finally got my 3.1 trooper complete. All certified and tested, just bolted in 4 anchor points in the rear and had 2 small ratchet belts in situ for the signoff. happy days.....hope she keeps going for another while now after all that!!

DD

Seamus1964 · 16-10-2014 10:08am

Was it expensive? Can you make a picture and post it here,please?

Packrat · 16-10-2014 2:03pm

DirtyDiesels wrote: »

Finally got my 3.1 trooper complete. All certified and tested, just bolted in 4 anchor points in the rear and had 2 small ratchet belts in situ for the signoff. happy days.....hope she keeps going for another while now after all that!!

DD

Have you taxed it yet, and if so - any problems re self employment or number of employees? Apparently Kerry co co are looking for pps numbers of employees....

DirtyDiesels · 16-10-2014 11:38pm

hi -no problem taxing it in co. meath. Cost me E20 for weigh bridge cert, E250 for crewcab cert and then the cvrt also. i allready had the seats and belts from another trooper i had. sorry no pics, i wuldnt be that computer savvy. The seats and belts just bolted straight back in, fitted in 15 minutes. the anchors i had to drill but again wasnt too bad of a job.

DD

Packrat · 25-10-2014 12:12pm

Currently doing this job on my disco 2 td5. Seats out, seat belts out, all fixing points filled with chemical metal, headrests gone, load straps in place, grill on order from Paddocks, blackout done.
Appointment made to meet Tony Devine from earlier in the thread, will then weight it, doe and hopefully tax when next in Kerry.
I'll update here as it happens.

ronanl · 29-10-2014 6:19pm

Hi can anyone help, I have a passenger taxed 2004 Rangerover vogue and I have seen a number of these jeeps classed as a 5 seater commercial or utility with annual tax of €333. How can this be done?

101sean · 29-10-2014 6:55pm

Ronan

Moved your question in to this thread, grab yourself a cup of tea, make yourself comfortable and read away, the answers are above.

DirtyDiesels · 14-12-2014 7:35am

Does anyone know if the LWB Nissan Terrano qualifies for the crewcab conversion. Im inclined to think its a bit small to qualify but anyone know for sure.

thanks

DD

101sean · 15-12-2014 5:26pm

DD

You should find your answer in this thread but I think it would be too small.

mayota · 16-12-2014 12:49am

DD
There's a Terrano crew cab on donedeal in Dublin. I know this doesn't prove they qualify but.. Maybe talk to one of the engineers that certify them.

DirtyDiesels · 18-12-2014 2:10am

cheers lads.

lynch 180 · 13-01-2015 12:04am

Hi,
I bought a 97 landcruiser prado 7 seater on an English plate over the weekend,just wondering how can I pay VRT as a crewcab, instead of a 7 seater?

Do I just bring an engineers report to the vrt office while its still on an english plate?

I would really appreciate any advice as I am getting conflicting advice from people that I have been speaking too...

wogger · 16-04-2015 8:20am

does anybody have the new updated rules for converting jeep or van to crewcab ?
ie , load area size ect and other requlations ? vrt ?

cheers

101sean · 16-04-2015 3:19pm

wogger, moved your post to this one which covers it (somewhere!). get yourself a cup of tea and settle down for a read.

elreberendo · 17-08-2015 11:47am

peasant wrote: »

Any and all insurances that I asked for quotes refused to insure me as a private person on a commercial vehicle. Never mind that they may have quoted too much ...they didn't quote at all.

I know it's been a year since this, any update on getting insurance for a private person driving a commercial vehicle? I'm in the same situation here, thinking of buying a Range Rover Vogue Crew Cab for low tax but I would use it to carry my wife and son as well, so I need get proper insurance cover.

Thanks.

Packrat · 17-08-2015 7:29pm

elreberendo wrote: »

I know it's been a year since this, any update on getting insurance for a private person driving a commercial vehicle? I'm in the same situation here, thinking of buying a Range Rover Vogue Crew Cab for low tax but I would use it to carry my wife and son as well, so I need get proper insurance cover.

Thanks.

Whatever about insurance, unless you can show a valid business reason for having it, your local area authority won't allow you to tax it commercial.
I got it as a farmer, but I had to change my reg details with the tax office. I was regd as a carpenter, but as I don't have employees any more, I wouldn't be entitled to tax a crew cab.
Insurance: I just informed AXA of the change of Taxation class.

elreberendo · 17-08-2015 11:28pm

Packrat wrote: »

Whatever about insurance, unless you can show a valid business reason for having it, your local area authority won't allow you to tax it commercial.
I got it as a farmer, but I had to change my reg details with the tax office. I was regd as a carpenter, but as I don't have employees any more, I wouldn't be entitled to tax a crew cab.
Insurance: I just informed AXA of the change of Taxation class.

But if the car is already taxed as commercial, then I understand that there is no need to produce proof of business anymore? I mean, afaik if a vehicle is crew cab and is taxed as commercial then remains like this for the future? At least this is what I see from other users.

Did Axa put any issues with your change? I guess you are getting business cover instead of particular/social so only for carry goods?

Thanks very much.

Packrat · 18-08-2015 1:48am

Have you ever taxed a commercial?
When you (or I who has had commercial vans for 20 years) go to tax a particular commercial for the first time regardless of whether IT was taxed before as one or not we must show that we are entitled to tax one as a commercial ie that we have a business which this will be used for. That's the law. It was widely flouted in the past but they are wise today.

Now, a crew cab is trickier because you must produce evidence of not only self employment but also the need to carry more than 2 employees as a normal van could carry 3 across the front.
One exception to that is a farmer who sometimes uses casual labour including family members for tasks requiring more than 3 people.
Some motor tax offices are more lenient, but in my case, in Kerry, I had to get a letter from Revenue stating that I am registered to pay tax as a farmer (which I am albeit a part time one)

Some guys will tell you that a herd or flock number is enough. That's bullsh1t and there are signs up in the motor tax office saying exactly that in polite language.

They also required from me a declaration of commercial use only which is a legal document signed in the presence of a Garda.

If you have a business or farm you can wrangle crew cab commercial tax out of them with difficulty but if you have neither then find a different route as they'll wreck your head and your insurance may well be invalid due to having comitted revenue fraud which is what you'll be doing.

CJhaughey · 18-08-2015 8:40am

If it was simple and easy every man and his dog would be driving a crewcab.
The fact that most aren't shows its not that simple.

elreberendo · 18-08-2015 9:43am

Packrat wrote: »

Have you ever taxed a commercial?
due to having comitted revenue fraud which is what you'll be doing.

This wouldn't happen if the taxes were fair (no totally unfair and utterly questionable). I know it's the law, but sometimes the law is wrong and perhaps if everybody gather to protest or even just don't pay then anybody could have any car regardless of the bloody engine size (CO2 emission makes more sense, I agree). In many cases, the motor tax is higher than the value of the vehicle, that doesn't make any sense to me, sorry.

Most of the times civil disobedience works. I'm not happy paying one of the highest car taxes in Europe plus highway tolls, M-50 tolls, tolls, taxes, tolls, taxes, bailouts, water, etc... sorry for the off-topic, but it's all related in my opinion.

Either way, my insurer (AXA) will come back to me with an answer to the Crew Cab vehicle with particular/social insurance, if they're happy with it then I am and there is nothing illegal in that.

Thanks for your advise anyway. There is a bit of confusion about this matter, some people say they're grand with crew cab, others say otherwise.

CJhaughey wrote: »

If it was simple and easy every man and his dog would be driving a crewcab.
The fact that most aren't shows its not that simple.

Perhaps we always take the long queue! Anyway, that's up to ourselves, if I can save a fortune every year then I'm up for it, I'm not rich unfortunately.

Packrat · 18-08-2015 9:08pm

Believe me, I'm no holy joe about flouting civil (never criminal) law when it suits me.
I'm just telling you what you WILL come up against.
The people who succeed in avoiding high tax are the ones who read ALL the rules and find a loophole.
If I were in your shoes I'd go down the ZV chassis route, - it's what a lot of people are doing. I feel sorry for genuine vintage enthusiasts who will be penalised in the end for this but as my buddy says: "Live honest if you can" - "but live, - one way or another"

elreberendo · 18-08-2015 9:25pm

I know I would sleep better if I had not to do any tricks, but perhaps it's worth the risk. If I had to pay €1.494 a year for a 3l car then perhaps I wouldn't have it, which is a real shame because the Range Rover is the car of my dreams since long time ago.

Again, thanks for the advise, I really appreciate any comment about this matter and I guess other users will gain more knowledge in the future.

On the other hand, what is that ZV chassis thing? Sorry, never heard of that but I'm open to any other choices.
Cheers.

Theanswers · 18-08-2015 10:13pm

You will be very unlucky to have issues. Everything in the entire country is taxed commercial.

elreberendo · 19-08-2015 12:01am

Theanswers wrote: »

You will be very unlucky to have issues. Everything in the entire country is taxed commercial.

That's what I come across after seeing all those lovely Crew Cab jeeps on donedeal!
Btw, AXA have not come back to me on my query, I'll have to ring them to see what's the story.

TrailerBob · 19-08-2015 1:00am

Insurance is not the big issue, it's the tax as has been said. There's loads of crew cabs on done deal and converting them.is easy, it's the taxing of them that's the hard bit.

Put it to you this way, I had an iveco box truck a couple of years ago, registered for a voluntary group I did work with. We couldn't tax it commercial as we weren't a business or a charity... Had to tax it private.

elreberendo · 19-08-2015 1:11am

I see what you mean. However and that's my guess after reading all the posts in this thread and others, if a car has been converted to crew cab, has the engineer certification and has passed the DOE (NCT for commercial vehicles) and has obtained the commercial tax €333 per year then remains the same for the future and regardless if the new owner has a business, has to carry 3 workers or the family.

There is no need to produce proof of those facts because that was produced already, when the tax is due to be paid I guess again all you need to do is get a pin number for renovation then pay.

Other people stated in this thread that they were grand with gards checkpoints and never questioned anything.

TrailerBob · 19-08-2015 1:45am

That's incorrect I'm afraid. The jeep gets certified as a crew cab by an engineer, and the owner taxes it as a commercial for €333. Then he sells it to you. You need to go to the tax office the first time you tax it, and that's where you get asked for the proof of commercial use. If you can't produce this, then the tax office will re-register it as private with Shannon. This depends entirely on the person you meet at the desk of course

If you keep the same vehicle, its no problem once its taxed the first time, then you get the pin.

Yes, in general you are grand at checkpoints. Never been asked anything about commercial use by Gardai. Once the discs are up to date, it's on you go. There have been some checkpoints with revenue guys there in the last year or so but I believe they are mostly looking for lads who are claiming dole and working for cash

elreberendo · 19-08-2015 3:04am

I believe that's wrong, you don't need to go to the tax office to pay the tax. All you need to do is retrieve a pin number to your email address then you can pay your tax online.

I did it in the past several times right after buying a used vehicle, I filled this form then I got a new pin then could paid tax online and got my disc:

Motor Tax Online website > PIN Retrieval

Hope this helps.

whelan2 · 19-08-2015 6:08am

elreberendo wrote: »

I believe that's wrong, you don't need to go to the tax office to pay the tax. All you need to do is retrieve a pin number to your email address then you can pay your tax online.

I did it in the past several times right after buying a used vehicle, I filled this form then I got a new pin then could paid tax online and got my disc:

Motor Tax Online website > PIN Retrieval

Hope this helps.

I dont think you get a pin when taxing it in your name the first time in your name- well I didnt- I went to tax office, they said I needed a cert of commercial insurance along with my pps number, got form signed in garda station and that was it. Renewed tax on line there the other day with pin, but as said for first taxation in your name you need to go to tax office

Del2005 · 19-08-2015 8:10am

elreberendo wrote: »

I believe that's wrong, you don't need to go to the tax office to pay the tax. All you need to do is retrieve a pin number to your email address then you can pay your tax online.

I did it in the past several times right after buying a used vehicle, I filled this form then I got a new pin then could paid tax online and got my disc:

Motor Tax Online website > PIN Retrieval

Hope this helps.

You can get a PIN for private tax online as soon as the vehicle is in your name, for commercial tax you can't you have to drop down to an office. The only way to avoid it is for the seller to tax it, but that's only pushing the problem out a year.

Landcruiser 7 seat passenger reg change

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