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Landcruiser 7 seat passenger reg change

  • 22-04-2014 12:01pm
    #1
    oldsmokey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭


    Hi, I did some searching, but can't find answer to this, hope you can help...can a 05 Landcruiser 7 seat have the 2 small rearmost seats removed, and be then re-registered as a commercial?..sounds daft, but I've heard of a few cases where its worked...some change in the law now allows it?
    Sorry if this is done to death, cant find info on it.
    Thanks
    Tagged:


«134

Comments

  • #2
    simx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭simx


    oldsmokey wrote: »
    Hi, I did some searching, but can't find answer to this, hope you can help...can a 05 Landcruiser 7 seat have the 2 small rearmost seats removed, and be then re-registered as a commercial?..sounds daft, but I've heard of a few cases where its worked...some change in the law now allows it?
    Sorry if this is done to death, cant find info on it.
    Thanks

    it can be if all rear seating removed and seating fixing points welded up


  • #3
    Taltos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    Might be better here OP.
    For anyone who has followed this thread, please review the charter here before posting as rules may be different.


  • #4
    gofaster_s13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭gofaster_s13


    2005 Landcruisers shouldn't qualify as the rear door aperture is too small but a number of people are passing them.


  • #5
    oldsmokey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭oldsmokey


    gofaster_s13 wrote: »
    2005 Landcruisers shouldn't qualify as the rear door aperture is too small but a number of people are passing them.
    Thanks gofaster...WHERE can I get more info? Its like trying to track the holy grail.
    Ta
    Dan


  • #6
    gofaster_s13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭gofaster_s13


    oldsmokey wrote: »
    Thanks gofaster...WHERE can I get more info? Its like trying to track the holy grail.
    Ta
    Dan

    PM me for the details


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  • #7
    Milton09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 451 ✭✭Milton09


    Theres a guy advertising 07/08 models on donedeal in Dublin like this, 2 rear seats removed and mesh partition fitted, they are taxed as crewcabs. I think there was a recent law change that allows it but dont have a link sorry.


  • #8
    tmboy95
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭tmboy95


    Yes you can done it in the last few weeks ourselves with our 04 one. Though when you remove the seats you will need to put a dog guard of some type in place for it to pass and be proper. Other wise you might not pass mot and the traffic core will go to town on you. Rang Brian geary main dealer in limerick and got the dog guard there. Fitted it ourselves and then took it to cork for mot. Bit of work now in fitting it yourself, the seats are easy take out but messing around with the belt and stuff was abit tricky.


  • #9
    monseiur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭monseiur


    tmboy95 wrote: »
    Yes you can done it in the last few weeks ourselves with our 04 one. Though when you remove the seats you will need to put a dog guard of some type in place for it to pass and be proper. Other wise you might not pass mot and the traffic core will go to town on you. Rang Brian geary main dealer in limerick and got the dog guard there. Fitted it ourselves and then took it to cork for mot. Bit of work now in fitting it yourself, the seats are easy take out but messing around with the belt and stuff was abit tricky.

    Hi,
    I'm very intrested in this as I may be buying a 7 or 8 seater in UK. Did you just have to remove the third row of seats only and not the second row i.e. the row behind the driver/front passanger seats. I was always of the opinion that all seats both second and third row had to be taken out etc.
    Thanks.
    M.


  • #10
    tmboy95
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭tmboy95


    Hi M sorry for late reply. Just removed 3rd row of seats so now there is 5 seats in it. Well we never heard of this until I was with the father and a fella saw the tax we were paying and told us and removing the rear seats. I don't know the details exactly as I was looking after getting a certified dog guard (has to be proper one).
    The father from what I gather just rang the mot centre in cork or wherever and found what needed to be done. We installed it ourselves as he'd be handy with a welder. A lot of playing around with belts and tacked up some holes somewhere and that was it. Tricky enough to do id nearly say leave it to someone who knows how to do it.


  • #11
    monseiur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Thanks TM Boy, greatly appreciated.

    M.


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  • #12
    ubs69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭ubs69


    Any more news on this ! I'm seeing a lot of these now , I'd like to do this myself


  • #13
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    would be interested in this too, rumors of people bringing in discovery's , landcruisers etc from the uk and bolting in a dog guard and getting 13.3% vrt and commercial tax have started to come up.

    but nobody seems to have any hard evidence of such. Anybody know who's doing this or what loophole is available. If it is available could somebody tell me if a full fat range rover would qualify ?

    the idea of a 2008-2010 Vogue SE commercial is quite appealing.


  • #14
    gofaster_s13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭gofaster_s13


    I certify these conversions, Its above board and was brought about by Ireland having to fall in line with the EU's definition of a commercial vehicle (first exploited by Land Rover with their Discovery "Utility") and no, range Rover Vogues won't qualify as they don't achieve the required measurements.


  • #15
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    gofaster_s13 wrote: »
    I certify these conversions, Its above board and was brought about by Ireland having to fall in line with the EU's definition of a commercial vehicle (first exploited by Land Rover with their Discovery "Utility") and no, range Rover Vogues won't qualify as they don't achieve the required measurements.

    would the landcruiser amazon qualify ?

    does this mean I can buy a full spec discovery in the uk , fit a dog guard and send it to someone like yourself and pay 13.3% vrt and commercial road tax ?


  • #16
    gofaster_s13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭gofaster_s13


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    would the landcruiser amazon qualify ?

    does this mean I can buy a full spec discovery in the uk , fit a dog guard and send it to someone like yourself and pay 13.3% vrt and commercial road tax ?

    Currently yes(to both questions).


  • #17
    s14driftking
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭s14driftking


    can a bmw x5 be done like this


  • #18
    visual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭visual


    What is the requirement is it a % of load space vs passager space


  • #19
    gofaster_s13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭gofaster_s13


    s14driftking wrote: »
    can a bmw x5 be done like this

    BMW X5's don't meet the requirements.
    visual wrote: »
    What is the requirement is it a % of load space vs passager space

    Theres several different measurements that have to be carried out, load weight capacity vs passanger weight capacity being one.


  • #20
    ubs69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭ubs69


    s14driftking wrote: »
    can a bmw x5 be done like this

    No it's too small


  • #21
    Theanswers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Theanswers


    What about a Range Rover?


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  • #22
    unklerosco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭unklerosco


    Theanswers wrote: »
    What about a Range Rover?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90257633&postcount=14


  • #23
    unklerosco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭unklerosco


    Is the 13.3% VRT based on the original asking price of the car or the book value at time of import?


  • #24
    101sean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭101sean


    Open Market Selling Price ie inflated current value in the eyes of the Revenue inc any extras on the vehicle. Forget importing and converting if it's post 2010, commercials have to be factory built as N1 since then.


  • #25
    unklerosco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭unklerosco


    101sean wrote: »
    Open Market Selling Price ie inflated current value in the eyes of the Revenue inc any extras on the vehicle. Forget importing and converting if it's post 2010, commercials have to be factory built as N1 since then.

    So if you import a vehicle reged pre 2010, ie. a landcruiser. And it's reg'd in the UK as a passenger, you land it in Ireland, carry out the conversion and bring it to your local NCT centre to get it reg'd and pay VRT etc. you pay 13.5% VRT?


  • #26
    cargo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭cargo


    There seems to have been a change or a new loophole spotted because there are a few new vehicles popping up also.

    I was in a Ford dealership a week or so ago to look at a ranger and they showed me their new "4-seater" commercial Kuga jeeps. Basically a standard passenger (not based on the Kuga Van) with no changes other than the middle seatbelt removed in the back and a sticker on the back of the center console saying not to use the middle seat. Everything else exactly as a Kuga car/jeep. No tinted rear windows or anything.

    They said they were only out a few weeks and said interest was huge. A guy bought one while I was there and i checked a lorry load been dropped off as I was leaving and they all bar one were "commercial" ones.


  • #27
    CorBur
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭CorBur


    Does anyone know if these "converted commercials" are in line with revenue definition of commercials for BIK purposes?


  • #28
    101sean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭101sean


    If you look back up the thread there have been a few recent posts about BIK, reading them it doesn't look like they meet the definition.


  • #29
    101sean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭101sean


    So if you import a vehicle reged pre 2010, ie. a landcruiser. And it's reg'd in the UK as a passenger, you land it in Ireland, carry out the conversion and bring it to your local NCT centre to get it reg'd and pay VRT etc. you pay 13.5% VRT?

    That was always the case with full commercial conversions and is probably the case with "crew cabs". You'd want to be absolutely sure it met the various criteria though before you stung for for a lot more!


  • #30
    101sean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭101sean


    the middle seatbelt removed in the back

    That sounds really iffy, surely it will fail it's first NCT/DOE and can't meet EU C&U regulations having a seat with no belt.


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  • #31
    oldsmokey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭oldsmokey


    Thanks all...a relation got the work done on the LC in past few days, paperwork signed off...am waiting with bated breath as to whether this lot will hold up when he goes to tax it...seems that can be a stumbling block.


  • #32
    cargo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭cargo


    101sean wrote: »
    That sounds really iffy, surely it will fail it's first NCT/DOE and can't meet EU C&U regulations having a seat with no belt.

    Yep I even saw it myself in the showroom and has a little tin plate riveted onto the rear of the center console with something like "Do no use this seat" or similar printed on it!!


  • #33
    CharlieCooper
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭CharlieCooper


    Hi Guys,

    will a 1990's land Rover Discovery 7 seater fall into this category of commercial with the 3rd row of seats removed & the necessary bulkhead or dog guard?

    Many thanks,


  • #34
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    101sean wrote: »
    That sounds really iffy, surely it will fail it's first NCT/DOE and can't meet EU C&U regulations having a seat with no belt.

    id say it could be an oversight and revenue are just looking for the number of seats to be reduced on the SQI's form. Has me wondering if that can be done to other vehicles that may not meet the load area requirements.


  • #35
    101sean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭101sean


    will a 1990's land Rover Discovery 7 seater fall into this category of commercial with the 3rd row of seats removed & the necessary bulkhead or dog guard?

    If you are talking Discovery 1 (tdi engine), I doubt it. may be possible with Discovery 2 td5 as the rear load area is a bit bigger. You need to compare the load area size and door opening against the requirements (whatever they are)


  • #36
    no12
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭no12


    I have noticed this also and I am really interested in getting this done. I have a 08 Commercial Landcruiser at present is it possible for to re-install the windows and seats put in the dog guard and get it through? Would be really handy save me having to go out and buy a new jeep and then put it through the test..


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  • #37
    101sean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭101sean


    Depends on how it was commercialised. If it was done prior to import there should be no seatbelt mounts and a welded in floor plus you'll have difficulty removing window panels . If it was a conversion done after import on a private jeep, not so much may have been wrecked internally.


  • #38
    no12
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭no12


    101sean wrote: »
    Depends on how it was commercialised. If it was done prior to import there should be no seatbelt mounts and a welded in floor plus you'll have difficulty removing window panels . If it was a conversion done after import on a private jeep, not so much may have been wrecked internally.

    Thanks Sean. Yes I think it was done by Toyota here when it landed I had a look and it has a welded in floor. I don't mind paying to get it done if the job can be done right can anyone recommend anyone who might be able to help to see if it's possible to commercial -> passenger conversion and carry out the work preferably North Dublin area?


  • #39
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Hi would a Isuzu Trooper 2002 be able to avail of this as I have 1 with rear seats out but wouldn't mind having as a five seater.


  • #40
    strange john
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭strange john


    oldsmokey wrote: »
    Hi, I did some searching, but can't find answer to this, hope you can help...can a 05 Landcruiser 7 seat have the 2 small rearmost seats removed, and be then re-registered as a commercial?..sounds daft, but I've heard of a few cases where its worked...some change in the law now allows it?
    Sorry if this is done to death, cant find info on it.
    Thanks

    I've just done this with my 97 landcruiser. I took out the third row of seats making it a 5 instead of 8 seater. The seats just bolt out, same with the seatbelts. The holes were covered with chemical metal to ensure they can't be re-installed.

    Having 4 anchor points and two eu certified cargo straps negates the need for a bulkhead or dog cage to be installed.

    The cargo area has to be 30% of the wheel base ( the distance between the centre of both axles). Also, the back door has to be at least 800 mm high and have a surface area of 12,800 cm. basically if the circumference of the door is grreater than 402 cm you'll be fine.

    I've just taxed mine successfully today having had it certified by an engineer and then doe'd.

    The measurements above are all in line with the new N1 category vehicles. There is an eu regulation saying from 2011. I'm on my mobile so any link to it, but will do so when I'm on a desktop again.


  • #41
    strange john
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭strange john


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Hi would a Isuzu Trooper 2002 be able to avail of this as I have 1 with rear seats out but wouldn't mind having as a five seater.


    The cargo area has to be 30% of the wheel base ( the distance between the centre of both axles). Also, the back door has to be at least 800 mm high and have a surface area of 12,800 cm. basically if the circumference of the door is grreater than 402 cm you'll be fine.


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  • #42
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    strange john wrote: »
    The cargo area has to be 30% of the wheel base ( the distance between the centre of both axles). Also, the back door has to be at least 800 mm high and have a surface area of 12,800 cm. basically if the circumference of the door is grreater than 402 cm you'll be fine.

    The rear door is full with nearly with a extra side part that opens also so top to bottom side to side fully opens.

    Thanks for the info going to see can I pick up seats to replace ones that were stripped out.


  • #43
    strange john
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭strange john


    visual wrote: »
    What is the requirement is it a % of load space vs passager space

    30% of the wheelbase if there are 2 rows of seats. 40% if only one row. The wheelbase is from the centre of one axle to the other. The cargo area is measured from the inside of the door to the top of the rear seat at a normal sitting position. If there is a bulkhead fitted, it's measured to the bulkhead.


  • #44
    strange john
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭strange john


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    The rear door is full with nearly with a extra side part that opens also so top to bottom side to side fully opens.

    I know the ones you mean.
    Get the tape measure out and measure the circumference. I it's over 402 cm you should be fine.

    Thanks for the info going to see can I pick up seats to replace ones that were stripped out.

    I'd imagine that there are vehicle converters who have seats for scrap following a conversion so that shouldn't be a problem.


  • #45
    strange john
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭strange john


    oldsmokey wrote: »
    Thanks all...a relation got the work done on the LC in past few days, paperwork signed off...am waiting with bated breath as to whether this lot will hold up when he goes to tax it...seems that can be a stumbling block.

    I've just taxed mine today after doing the work myself. There was no issue. My landcruiser is now a category N1 vehicle, which is the new designation for light (ie under 3500 kg) goods vehicles.


  • #46
    ubs69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭ubs69


    strange john wrote: »
    I've just done this with my 97 landcruiser. I took out the third row of seats making it a 5 instead of 8 seater. The seats just bolt out, same with the seatbelts. The holes were covered with chemical metal to ensure they can't be re-installed.

    Having 4 anchor points and two eu certified cargo straps negates the need for a bulkhead or dog cage to be installed.

    The cargo area has to be 30% of the wheel base ( the distance between the centre of both axles). Also, the back door has to be at least 800 mm high and have a surface area of 12,800 cm. basically if the circumference of the door is grreater than 402 cm you'll be fine.

    I've just taxed mine successfully today having had it certified by an engineer and then doe'd.

    The measurements above are all in line with the new N1 category vehicles. There is an eu regulation saying from 2011. I'm on my mobile so any link to it, but will do so when I'm on a desktop again.
    have you got any pics


  • #47
    strange john
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭strange john


    ubs69 wrote: »
    have you got any pics

    I do, but can't upload them to this forum. There's really not much to see in the photos. Just unbolted the seats and seatbelts. This was easier than I thought. All bolts were a size 14. One was corroded in a bit and the angle grinder had to be used. Then I covered all the holes with chemical metal To ensure they can't be reused. I also covered the latch points where the seats folded onto on the cargo floor with chemical metal too.

    Then I bought two eu certified cargo straps an attached them to the 4 factory installed anchor points. This has to be done to negate the need for a bulkhead. I bought the cargo straps in Halfords. Just make sure that they have the little eu mark on the label.


  • #48
    ubs69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭ubs69


    strange john wrote: »
    I do, but can't upload them to this forum. There's really not much to see in the photos. Just unbolted the seats and seatbelts. This was easier than I thought. All bolts were a size 14. One was corroded in a bit and the angle grinder had to be used. Then I covered all the holes with chemical metal To ensure they can't be reused. I also covered the latch points where the seats folded onto on the cargo floor with chemical metal too.

    Then I bought two eu certified cargo straps an attached them to the 4 factory installed anchor points. This has to be done to negate the need for a bulkhead. I bought the cargo straps in Halfords. Just make sure that they have the little eu mark on the label.

    What forms or paper work is needed


  • #49
    strange john
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭strange john


    ubs69 wrote: »
    What forms or paper work is needed

    Once you have the work done, you need to find an engineer. There is a list that can be obtained from the revenue.ie or the NSAI website. I'm on my mobile so can't link to it. The engineer you are looking for is called a suitably qualified individual. They will do what's called a test 48: mass and dimensions. I used a guy called tony Devine. He's based near Navan if that's any good. I'd recommend him highly. His phone is (086) 252 3812

    Once you have that cert, send your vehicle licencing cert to Shannon with the form in order to change the category to N1 on your vehicle licencing cert. when you get that back with it showing as N1, bring it for DOE then go and tax it. I went backwards when I did mine and it caused problems at the DOE centre.


  • #50
    ubs69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭ubs69


    strange john wrote: »
    Once you have the work done, you need to find an engineer. There is a list that can be obtained from the revenue.ie or the NSAI website. I'm on my mobile so can't link to it. The engineer you are looking for is called a suitably qualified individual. They will do what's called a test 48: mass and dimensions. I used a guy called tony Devine. He's based near Navan if that's any good. I'd recommend him highly. His phone is (086) 252 3812

    Once you have that cert, send your vehicle licencing cert to Shannon with the form in order to change the category to N1 on your vehicle licencing cert. when you get that back with it showing as N1, bring it for DOE then go and tax it. I went backwards when I did mine and it caused problems at the DOE centre.
    Thanks a lot for info , I'm getting this sorted thanks again


  • #51
    nu_90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭nu_90


    Hey guys, I'm currently driving a 110 defender station wagon . iv removed the two rear seats, just for more space for the dog and kids stuff. I have the middle row three seats.

    Its a 95 defender , I know that 2011 station wagons 7 seaters are N1 on logbook from the factory.

    So is it only 2011 onwards that this is done , on discovery 4s, land cruisers , pajeros , defenders, etc.

    Or can I still do this to mine??


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