Landcruiser 7 seat passenger reg change

strange john · 28-05-2014 9:23pm

nu_90 wrote: »

Hey guys, I'm currently driving a 110 defender station wagon . iv removed the two rear seats, just for more space for the dog and kids stuff. I have the middle row three seats.

Its a 95 defender , I know that 2011 station wagons 7 seaters are N1 on logbook from the factory.

So is it only 2011 onwards that this is done , on discovery 4s, land cruisers , pajeros , defenders, etc.

Or can I still do this to mine??

I've done it to a 1997 land cruiser. There's no reason at present why you couldn't do the same to yours, providing the dimensions are correct. I'm fairly sure a 110 defender is big enough.

nu_90 · 28-05-2014 9:50pm

strange john wrote: »

I've done it to a 1997 land cruiser. There's no reason at present why you couldn't do the same to yours, providing the dimensions are correct. I'm fairly sure a 110 defender is big enough.

Thanks strangejohn , gonna pop into doe crowd tomorrow about doing this , I'm nearly there already with dog guard fitted.

101sean · 28-05-2014 10:11pm

Don't think that will work on a Defender SW, load space may be big enough but the back door isn't.

From posts further up this thread -

The cargo area has to be 30% of the wheel base ( the distance between the centre of both axles). Also, the back door has to be at least 800 mm high and have a surface area of 12,800 cm. basically if the circumference of the door is grreater than 402 cm you'll be fine.

strange john · 28-05-2014 10:17pm

nu_90 wrote: »

Thanks strangejohn , gonna pop into doe crowd tomorrow about doing this , I'm nearly there already with dog guard fitted.

You need to have it tested by a "suitably qualified individual" and certified before going for a DOE. have a look through previous posts for a full breakdown of what's needed. Also, as Sean101 says above, the back door mightn't be big enough. Surface area of the back door has to be 12,800 cm squared.

nu_90 · 28-05-2014 10:20pm

101sean wrote: »

Don't think that will work on a Defender SW, load space may be big enough but the back door isn't.

From posts further up this thread -

Land cruiser doors are much wider & must be tiny bit taller I'd say.

Getting the tape out in the morning.

If there very strict on rear door size , I'd be a bit sickened. But a five seater land cruiser is very tempting...

peasant · 02-06-2014 11:50am

I drive a Nissan Pathfinder that would qualify under these rules ...but what about me ?

As I understand it, in order to legally pay commercial tax on a commercial vehicle you need to have a VAT number, be a private trader, or least own a farm or some tracts of land.

I am/have nothing of the above, so how could I tax this commercially and/or get away with it when stopped in one of those revenue checkpoints?

And to make matters worse, insurance is another issue. While hunting for my new vehicle, I looked at several commercial vehicles but I could not get an insurance quote for them. Any and all insurances that I asked for quotes refused to insure me as a private person on a commercial vehicle. Never mind that they may have quoted too much ...they didn't quote at all.

So how do you guys get around this?

doctorchopper · 02-06-2014 4:53pm

peasant wrote: »

I drive a Nissan Pathfinder that would qualify under these rules ...but what about me ?

As I understand it, in order to legally pay commercial tax on a commercial vehicle you need to have a VAT number, be a private trader, or least own a farm or some tracts of land.

I am/have nothing of the above, so how could I tax this commercially and/or get away with it when stopped in one of those revenue checkpoints?

And to make matters worse, insurance is another issue. While hunting for my new vehicle, I looked at several commercial vehicles but I could not get an insurance quote for them. Any and all insurances that I asked for quotes refused to insure me as a private person on a commercial vehicle. Never mind that they may have quoted too much ...they didn't quote at all.

So how do you guys get around this?

Insurance shouldn't be a issue, I'm with insure my van.ie, was with setanta and never had a problem with either. As far as your concerns with commercial tax, it's really down to your own decision, If you are not legally entitled to have commercial tax (being a commercial trader) then you shouldn't have commercial tax, now if it doesn't bother you and take the chance then that is up to you. I know people who have been doing it for years with no issues, but its totally your decision.

pp007 · 04-06-2014 11:24am

strange john wrote: »

The cargo area has to be 30% of the wheel base ( the distance between the centre of both axles). Also, the back door has to be at least 800 mm high and have a surface area of 12,800 cm. basically if the circumference of the door is grreater than 402 cm you'll be fine.

Test booked for Friday and something keep me thinking about that 402cm circumference. I've measured once again and I get 404cm in my HiluxSurf so should be OK, but... after calculation of area it's only 10,201cm.

If circumference would be 452cm then it would fit EU directive.

strange john · 04-06-2014 3:47pm

pp007 wrote: »

Test booked for Friday and something keep me thinking about that 402cm circumference. I've measured once again and I get 404cm in my HiluxSurf so should be OK, but... after calculation of area it's only 10,201cm.
If circumference would be 452cm then it would fit EU directive.

The way I calculated was if I had a circle with a circumference of 402 cm, the surface area would be 12860cm squared. I think that's the fairest way of calculating because it takes the curves of a back door into account.

vibe666 · 12-06-2014 1:03pm

Other than what's been mentioned above and getting the work certified, are there any other steps that are needed if I was to do this on a UK registered motor to get it registered here?

vibe666 · 13-06-2014 9:30am

I was also wondering what kind of money you'd expect to pay on top of your purchase price to get the conversion completed?

strange john · 17-06-2014 7:24am

vibe666 wrote: »

I was also wondering what kind of money you'd expect to pay on top of your purchase price to get the conversion completed?

I don't know anything about importing one, but I did the work myself and the only costs were the certification at €150+vat and the weighbridge which was €20.

oldsmokey · 24-06-2014 11:31am

oldsmokey wrote: »

Thanks all...a relation got the work done on the LC in past few days, paperwork signed off...am waiting with bated breath as to whether this lot will hold up when he goes to tax it...seems that can be a stumbling block.

Well, after 3 attempts to tax it, finally got there...VAT number required, more expensive insurance required...they really don't want to see anyone doing this, your perseverance will be tested.The crowd in the tax office were as unhelpful as humanly possible...Limerick it was...But the savings are substantial, so take your chances.

jizzyboner · 26-06-2014 11:04am

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

I certify these conversions, Its above board and was brought about by Ireland having to fall in line with the EU's definition of a commercial vehicle (first exploited by Land Rover with their Discovery "Utility") and no, range Rover Vogues won't qualify as they don't achieve the required measurements.

Hi gofaster
Just remembered seeing a few weeks ago a Range Rover Vogue being sold by Karl Goodwin Motors in Dublin, and they made a big deal about it being cheap tax. Even had a photo of the tax disk and it was €333 for the year. I'm pretty sure it was a 07/08 TDV8, but it's sold now. It was definitely 5 seats also.

Someone must have found a way to get around the official rules if it doesn't officially qualify. No idea how though.

Pat

brandonw123 · 26-06-2014 11:35pm

I checked my land rover discovery 1 today.
The door size is about 1260x 1160 so that is ok.
The cargo area is more than 30% of wheelbase if measured on the floor from the rear of the middle seats to the boot door.
However the middle seats are sloped & if you measure from the top of the seat, the figure in mm is less than 30%

Does anyone know if it is ok to take the floor measurement ?
Do you measure cargo area with the rear door closed or open ( I.e. is the width of the door included as part of the cargo area or excluded )?
Thanks

101sean · 27-06-2014 8:30am

It's definitely to the inside face of the door and I suspect it will be from the rear of the seat.

gofaster_s13 · 27-06-2014 9:11am

Its from the furthest point back on the rear seats to the closest point of the rear door opening.

brandonw123 · 27-06-2014 12:50pm

Thanks for the replies.
Is is permitted to straighten the middle seats so that the 30% is achieved.
It is only about 60mm to straighten?

gofaster_s13 · 27-06-2014 1:17pm

brandonw123 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
Is is permitted to straighten the middle seats so that the 30% is achieved.
It is only about 60mm to straighten?

Manufacturers specifications can't be altered and there is a set minimum angle for the seat back.

vibe666 · 27-06-2014 3:15pm

that's a real PITA.

I'd love a nice N1 commercial Supercharged 4.2L V8 Vogue SE with an LPG conversion!

I've heard they're thinking of making a slightly longer RR soon though, so one day, you never know.

brandonw123 · 27-06-2014 10:06pm

Thanks Gofaster,
I guess I am goosed so on the disco 1.
"O for an extra 2 inches " !!!!

Casati · 27-06-2014 11:41pm

brandonw123 wrote: »

Thanks Gofaster,
I guess I am goosed so on the disco 1.
"O for an extra 2 inches " !!!!

What about taking out the 2 back seats - presuming its a seven seater, and turning it into a 5 seater? Surely the Kuga does meet the % requirement but gets away with it by reducing from 5 to 4 seats?

brandonw123 · 28-06-2014 10:59am

It is a 7 seater currently.
Those dimensions are with removing the last row of seats giving a 5 seater.

OldGuysRule · 30-06-2014 9:52am

The Discovery 2 is longer in the boot area than the Disco 1 . . .

strange john · 04-07-2014 1:49am

Are any large estate cars big enough to do this with too? I'm thinking Volvo xc70 or an e class merc estate. 30% of the wheelbase has to be the rear cargo area. Anyone know of anything that could fit the bill?

gofaster_s13 · 04-07-2014 9:18am

No estate car I've measured(5 series tourings, E class Mercs, XC70/90's) has met the boot door area requirements, a lot of people carriers will meet the measurements though.

Milton09 · 06-07-2014 1:37pm

Anybody know if it is possible to claim back some of the VAT on a converted crewcab, as its commercial now?

kuro2k · 07-07-2014 2:16pm

strange john wrote: »

I've just taxed mine today after doing the work myself. There was no issue. My landcruiser is now a category N1 vehicle, which is the new designation for light (ie under 3500 kg) goods vehicles.

Did you change your insurance from private to commercial or did your insurance allow you to insure the category N1 with private insurance with the policy addition to carry goods in connection with your trade or profession?

markw81 · 07-07-2014 10:49pm

I have 00 Mercedes ml 270 that I was going to covert to commercial. But this would be a better way for me the back door has the size but is there a enough size in the back with seats in it??
Any help would be great.

strange john · 08-07-2014 10:24pm

kuro2k wrote: »

Did you change your insurance from private to commercial or did your insurance allow you to insure the category N1 with private insurance with the policy addition to carry goods in connection with your trade or profession?

Changed it to commercial. It's for farm use so insured with FBD at a reasonable level. I hear standard commercial insurance can be pricier.

kuro2k · 08-07-2014 10:39pm

strange john wrote: »

Changed it to commercial. It's for farm use so insured with FBD at a reasonable level. I hear standard commercial insurance can be pricier.

Thanks, spoke with my insurance company yesterday (axa). Once I change classification from M1 to N1 I can keep private insurance and add carriage of goods for profession or trade

Axa will not insure it commercially with the rear seats, I'm converting a 96 3rd gen Hilux Surf

ubs69 · 12-07-2014 12:24pm

Any one know how to measure area of aperture for vehicles with two or more rows of seats ?

101sean · 12-07-2014 8:24pm

Read back up the thread, the dimensions are in earlier posts.

ubs69 · 12-07-2014 8:48pm

101sean wrote: »

Read back up the thread, the dimensions are in earlier posts.

I did , I might of missed it ! But I think it only gives the size of aperture as over 12000 , I would like to know Which measurements are used to get this

ubs69 · 13-07-2014 12:21pm

ubs69 wrote: »

I did , I might of missed it ! But I think it only gives the size of aperture as over 12000 , I would like to know Which measurements are used to get this

Sorry should be 12800 cm2

ubs69 · 14-07-2014 1:40pm

Is it just a case of measuring the opening at rear cm 2 ,

pp007 · 14-07-2014 10:43pm

Finally done! My HiluxSurf '96 is officially a CrewCab.
It cost some money and a lot of patience.

First of all thanks to 'strange_john' for his suggestion about certified engineer.
So how it worked in my case? In order how I did it.

- Weight bridge at 'Roadstone' in Finglas (location: driving form city N2 pass M50 and turn first left and then left) cost: 30euro
- Certified engineer report 'Devine Coaches' in Navan (location: Garlow Cross, Lismullen, south of Navan) cost: 200euro
- DOE now CVRT disk at 'Kavanagh test centre' in Duleek(location: R152 from Duleek to Drogheda) cost: 115euro
(test center do not give disk, it's issued by CVRT and they issue it for 6months, I've call them and ask for a 12months as I was previously owner of the car and it is just change of class, no problem at all)
- Commercial insurance (that was requirement from Ballymun MotorTax as I'm not a VAT registered) so I get the best offer form insuremyvan.ie - cost: 480euro
- Form 111A stamp at Garda next to tax office.
- Tax office, Ballymun. All documents (weight doc., eng. cert. and report., log book, insurance, form 111 and 111a) and all sorted in less than 10min. Cost: 333euro

ubs69 · 14-07-2014 10:47pm

Did you do test 48 ! , and who changed you log book to crewcab

pp007 · 14-07-2014 11:04pm

ubs69 wrote: »

Did you do test 48 ! , and who changed you log book to crewcab

A result of test 48 is eng. cert. of conversion (stamped form 'VRTCONV'), so it has to be done.
Logbook submitted with all documents in motor tax office. After three days received back new one.

ubs69 · 15-07-2014 7:17am

pp007 wrote: »

A result of test 48 is eng. cert. of conversion (stamped form 'VRTCONV'), so it has to be done.
Logbook submitted with all documents in motor tax office. After three days received back new one.

I think test 48 is seperate to conversion form , it's 16 pages of measurements And dimensions ! Have you done it ?

pp007 · 15-07-2014 12:04pm

ubs69 wrote: »

I think test 48 is seperate to conversion form , it's 16 pages of measurements And dimensions ! Have you done it ?

In foot notes of Form VRTCONVSQI can be read:
'If a vehicle is changing its classification from M1 to N1, the masses and dimensions must be confirmed by an NSAI Approved Test Centre, whose scope of approval covers "Test: 48..."'

Also in form VRTCONV is something similar.

That's why I believe it was done, but I didn't see that, if that helps.

I've check all the parameters which are in question in test 48 before I went to do test itself and all matches for me.

vibe666 · 15-07-2014 8:07pm

Anyone know if a mk2 (1990's) pajero would fit the bill?

Could be a cheap and cheerful option?

strange john · 18-07-2014 1:24am

pp007 wrote: »

Finally done! My HiluxSurf '96 is officially a CrewCab.
It cost some money and a lot of patience.

First of all thanks to 'strange_john' for his suggestion about certified engineer.
So how it worked in my case? In order how I did it.

- Weight bridge at 'Roadstone' in Finglas (location: driving form city N2 pass M50 and turn first left and then left) cost: 30euro
- Certified engineer report 'Devine Coaches' in Navan (location: Garlow Cross, Lismullen, south of Navan) cost: 200euro
- DOE now CVRT disk at 'Kavanagh test centre' in Duleek(location: R152 from Duleek to Drogheda) cost: 115euro
(test center do not give disk, it's issued by CVRT and they issue it for 6months, I've call them and ask for a 12months as I was previously owner of the car and it is just change of class, no problem at all)
- Commercial insurance (that was requirement from Ballymun MotorTax as I'm not a VAT registered) so I get the best offer form insuremyvan.ie - cost: 480euro
- Form 111A stamp at Garda next to tax office.
- Tax office, Ballymun. All documents (weight doc., eng. cert. and report., log book, insurance, form 111 and 111a) and all sorted in less than 10min. Cost: 333euro

Horay! Well done.

ubs69 · 08-08-2014 10:33pm

And now my trooper is done ! From a two seater commercial to 5 seater crew cab

vibe666 · 09-08-2014 8:07pm

ubs69 wrote: »

And now my trooper is done ! From a two seater commercial to 5 seater crew cab

how do the costs add up, going from 2-5 seats (initially and ongoing) if you don't mind me asking?

also, interesting that you went the other way, but i guess it's just a matter of working with what you've got.

Popoutman · 09-08-2014 10:53pm

Is there a list of vehicles that are suitable for the "conversion" to N1?
So far I've seen references to:
o Toyota Landcruiser
o Isuzu Trooper
o Landrover Disco TD5

It seems as though there could be a few more machines that would qualify for the (800mm door height+12800cm^2 rear door area) and 30% of wheelbase. I'm trying to dig through manufacturer specs and dimensions and I think that I might have a few more:

o Mercedes GL
o Audi Q7 (possibly - can't get the door height but it looks longer than 800 with the angle)
o Mercedes R-Class - depends if the measurement is the actual door height or door aperture height
o Renault Grand Espace

Any other contenders that we know of that could be 5-seater and commercially taxed under the revised regulations?

punisher5112 · 10-08-2014 8:12pm

Mitsubishi Pajero
Sang yung Rexton possibly?
Ford Kuga is been sold as commercial with 4 seats.
Opel Mokka possibly?
Opel Frontera.

Some more out there I would say.

Packrat · 11-08-2014 12:35am

Popoutman wrote: »

Is there a list of vehicles that are suitable for the "conversion" to N1?
So far I've seen references to:
o Toyota Landcruiser
o Isuzu Trooper
o Landrover Disco TD5

It seems as though there could be a few more machines that would qualify for the (800mm door height+12800cm^2 rear door area) and 30% of wheelbase. I'm trying to dig through manufacturer specs and dimensions and I think that I might have a few more:

o Mercedes GL
o Audi Q7 (possibly - can't get the door height but it looks longer than 800 with the angle)
o Mercedes R-Class - depends if the measurement is the actual door height or door aperture height
o Renault Grand Espace

Any other contenders that we know of that could be 5-seater and commercially taxed under the revised regulations?

Does the disco 2 (td5 or otherwise) work though?

gofaster_s13 · 11-08-2014 12:07pm

vibe666 wrote: »

how do the costs add up, going from 2-5 seats (initially and ongoing) if you don't mind me asking?

also, interesting that you went the other way, but i guess it's just a matter of working with what you've got.

If you go from 2 to 5'seats you are liable for a VRT payment.

strange john · 12-08-2014 5:59pm

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

If you go from 2 to 5'seats you are liable for a VRT payment.

Why, when it's still a commercial?

Landcruiser 7 seat passenger reg change

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