Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Tox56 · 30-09-2012 9:32pm

Dave K was in the Wolfhounds last time they played and had a great game, so Kidney knows who he is

jacothelad · 30-09-2012 9:56pm

danthefan wrote: »

Wolfhounds is completely meaningless. Scratch sides with no time to prepare.

I think they get a bit of time given the huge numbers who get trailed in to the greater Ireland squad. If they are only tackle bag fodder then that is a waste of everyone's time.

snow mad · 01-10-2012 9:42am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm just talking generalities, if Kearney is definitely out for the AIs then I'd say Earls may end up being our only option at 15. Niall Morris is the only Irish natural 15 who I can think of, he's starting for Leicester but I'd doubt he'd be up to it.

when is felix jones due back

totallegend · 01-10-2012 9:54am

I might be totally off the pace here and this was possibly discussed before, but Greg Feek was quoted in yesterday's Sunday Times as saying that he was not going to helping the national team out as scrum coach any more.

That, combined with the IRFU's continued inability to find a permanent successor, is a bit worrying considering we have the Boks and Argentina coming next month.

CatFromHue · 01-10-2012 10:14am

snow mad wrote: »

when is felix jones due back

He's meant to be back in November as far as I know.

totallegend wrote: »

I might be totally off the pace here and this was possibly discussed before, but Greg Feek was quoted in yesterday's Sunday Times as saying that he was not going to helping the national team out as scrum coach any more.

That, combined with the IRFU's continued inability to find a permanent successor, is a bit worrying considering we have the Boks and Argentina coming next month.

I think Mike Ross's fitness levels would be more important to be honest. I don't think the Welsh have a scrum coach (though Robin McBrydie is the forwards coach), not sure about the Scots or the English (though Graham Rowntree is the forwards coach i think).

Swan Curry · 01-10-2012 11:45am

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think Mike Ross's fitness levels would be more important to be honest. I don't think the Welsh have a scrum coach (though Robin McBrydie is the forwards coach), not sure about the Scots or the English (though Graham Rowntree is the forwards coach i think).

The Welsh don't seem to have one,the Scottish have former Italian international Massimo Cuttita,England don't have one but Graham Rowntree was a scrum coach.

ray jay · 01-10-2012 11:54am

totallegend wrote: »

I might be totally off the pace here and this was possibly discussed before, but Greg Feek was quoted in yesterday's Sunday Times as saying that he was not going to helping the national team out as scrum coach any more.

That, combined with the IRFU's continued inability to find a permanent successor, is a bit worrying considering we have the Boks and Argentina coming next month.

I can only hope whoever succeeds Kidney is allowed to put together a full set of coaches with well-defined roles. At this point it's like the IRFU is letting the whole operation wind down before a fresh start.

bilston · 01-10-2012 11:58am

ray jay wrote: »

At this point it's like the IRFU is letting the whole operation wind down before a fresh start.

I think that's exactly it. Barring winning 7 out of 7 this season (SA/Arg/Wal/Fra/Sco/Ita/Eng) I can't see his contract being renewed so why appoint back room staff that a new coach may not want in 9 months time.

molloyjh · 01-10-2012 12:06pm

bilston wrote: »

ray jay wrote: »

At this point it's like the IRFU is letting the whole operation wind down before a fresh start.

I think that's exactly it. Barring winning 7 out of 7 this season (SA/Arg/Wal/Fra/Sco/Ita/Eng) I can't see his contract being renewed so why appoint back room staff that a new coach may not want in 9 months time.

I hope they aren't letting it wind down. That would mean they are willing to throw away an entire season....

Lelantos · 01-10-2012 12:07pm

bilston wrote: »

ray jay wrote: »

At this point it's like the IRFU is letting the whole operation wind down before a fresh start.

I think that's exactly it. Barring winning 7 out of 7 this season (SA/Arg/Wal/Fra/Sco/Ita/Eng) I can't see his contract being renewed so why appoint back room staff that a new coach may not want in 9 months time.

Dangerous assumption there "new coach" we could all get a very nasty shock.

Podge_irl · 01-10-2012 12:07pm

Ah sure its alright. We have Gert "Tony Buckley could be the best tighthead in the world" Smal. We'll be grand.

GerM · 01-10-2012 12:56pm

Swan Curry wrote: »

The Welsh don't seem to have one,the Scottish have former Italian international Massimo Cuttita,England don't have one but Graham Rowntree was a scrum coach.

Pretty sure McBride and Gatland take the scrum on themselves. Plenty of experience there between two front row internationals.

leftleg · 01-10-2012 1:01pm

Always helps when you have a great scrum to work with already as both Wales and England have.

ray jay · 01-10-2012 2:40pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I hope they aren't letting it wind down. That would mean they are willing to throw away an entire season....

Exactly. No reason they can't hire people on short term contracts to see us through to the end of the season.

bilston · 01-10-2012 3:46pm

So how are we with regards to injuries as we move towards to November games.

Fitzgerald is definitely out unfortunately. I think SOB is more or less confirmed out but the Leinster lads here may know different? What about Kearney and O'Connell, I haven't really heard one way or other about their expected returns. POC in particular seems a bit of a mystery. To be missing O'Brien, O'Connell and Kearney would be quite a blow, particularly Kearney as I don't see anyone remotely close to him at FB and irrespective of the great debate surrounding POC's carrying his lineout presence is immense.

danthefan · 01-10-2012 3:48pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I hope they aren't letting it wind down. That would mean they are willing to throw away an entire season....

They threw away the season when they didn't sack Kidney after the Summer tour.

part time punk · 01-10-2012 4:16pm

danthefan wrote: »

They threw away the season when they didn't sack Kidney after the Summer tour.

They threw away 2 seasons when they renewed his contract before the world cup.

totallegend · 01-10-2012 7:51pm

bilston wrote: »

So how are we with regards to injuries as we move towards to November games.

Fitzgerald is definitely out unfortunately. I think SOB is more or less confirmed out but the Leinster lads here may know different? What about Kearney and O'Connell, I haven't really heard one way or other about their expected returns. POC in particular seems a bit of a mystery. To be missing O'Brien, O'Connell and Kearney would be quite a blow, particularly Kearney as I don't see anyone remotely close to him at FB and irrespective of the great debate surrounding POC's carrying his lineout presence is immense.

O'Brien will be out, Kearney should be grand (but Dave Kearney is out, maybe that's the confusion).

O'Connell is very worrying, it's nearly going down the Flannery road of very vague descriptions of injuries, even vaguer estimated dates for return and I just have a bad feeling about it.

Teferi · 01-10-2012 8:02pm

totallegend wrote: »

O'Connell is very worrying, it's nearly going down the Flannery road of very vague descriptions of injuries, even vaguer estimated dates for return and I just have a bad feeling about it.

That would be the absolute worst way for POC to go and I would be disgusted to see it happen. A man like POC ought to choose when he retires not have it thrust upon him.

Let's hope your feelings are wrong.

danthefan · 01-10-2012 8:04pm

Teferi wrote: »

That would be the absolute worst way for POC to go and I would be disgusted to see it happen. A man like POC ought to choose when he retires not have it thrust upon him.

Let's hope your feelings are wrong.

I would think that applies to absolutely any player.

GerM · 01-10-2012 8:09pm

POC had a back issue that didn't settle down and couldn't take contact. He was able to train with the squad (and is still training) and will be back sooner rather than later. I would say he could play in the next 2 weeks. His big issue is match fitness right now.

Teferi · 01-10-2012 10:04pm

danthefan wrote: »

I would think that applies to absolutely any player.

Like it or not some are more equal than others.

RoundBox11 · 01-10-2012 10:09pm

I read somewhere yesterday that O'Connells injuries are just taking a bit longer than expected to clear up but he's training which is a good sign.

In the unlikely event that O'Connell is out for the NI's, i think Devin Toner should be starting in his place. Guaranteed line-out ball would really help cover up the gaping hole left by POC. Ryan and Toner would do a good job imo.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 01-10-2012 10:42pm

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I read somewhere yesterday that O'Connells injuries are just taking a bit longer than expected to clear up but he's training which is a good sign.

In the unlikely event that O'Connell is out for the NI's, i think Devin Toner should be starting in his place. Guaranteed line-out ball would really help cover up the gaping hole left by POC. Ryan and Toner would do a good job imo.

Toner is well down the pecking order. He'd be about 6th in line for an Irish jersey and he'd have an in-form Stevenson pushing him for that spot at that.

Monty Burnz · 01-10-2012 10:52pm

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Guaranteed line-out ball would really help cover up the gaping hole left by POC.

Guaranteed lineout ball would be more assured with a slick lineout operation and an accurate thrower. You don't need someone who is 6'10" to do that...

Tox56 · 01-10-2012 11:06pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Toner is well down the pecking order. He'd be about 6th in line for an Irish jersey and he'd have an in-form Stevenson pushing him for that spot at that.

Behind what 5?

GerM · 01-10-2012 11:11pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Guaranteed lineout ball would be more assured with a slick lineout operation and an accurate thrower. You don't need someone who is 6'10" to do that...

You don't need someone who is that tall but it makes it a hell of a lot easier especially when that guy has excellent hands. You are leas reliant on all components of the line out running like clockwork when you can just hoist a guy well above the opposition and throw the ball 10 inches higher than you normally would. Also, Toner all but guarantees at least one stolen ball a match. A slick thrower and a tightly run line out are far from easy to pit together especially when the personnel only play together 7 or 8 times a year.

Not saying I would have him in the side but if we wanted to go with a side based on line out, he would certainly have to be in it.

Podge_irl · 01-10-2012 11:14pm

I'm a big fan of Toner, but I want to see him as the starting Leinster HEC lock before we talk about Ireland. I do, however, think he is more then capable of filling that role for Leinster, but let's wait to see if he gets picked there first as I have my doubts.

Tomtom364 · 01-10-2012 11:15pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Behind what 5?

POC
Ryan
Tuohy
McCarthy
DOC

I think.

GerM · 01-10-2012 11:15pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Behind what 5?

You'd have to say POC, DOC, DR, DT and potentially McCarthy are ahead of him at the moment judging by selections. Stevenson has been playing great stuff for Ulster for some time too.

TheKeenMachine · 01-10-2012 11:16pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Behind what 5?

Well, this isn't necessarily the order I'd have but: POC, Ryan, Tuohy, DOC and Macca.

Tox56 · 01-10-2012 11:17pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Toner, but I want to see him as the starting Leinster HEC lock before we talk about Ireland. I do, however, think he is more then capable of filling that role for Leinster, but let's wait to see if he gets picked there first as I have my doubts.

I can see that happening, he started a lot of the games last year and this year there is no Brad Thorn, with Leo unlikely to last 80 minutes too often I'd like to see him as the one constant in there.

Tox56 · 01-10-2012 11:20pm

GerM wrote: »

You'd have to say POC, DOC, DR, DT and potentially McCarthy are ahead of him at the moment judging by selections. Stevenson has been playing great stuff for Ulster for some time too.

I meant (and probably should have clarified) in what order, but if he continues his form from last season and starts H Cup regularly (big part of the equation) he should be right in the mix

It is also worth noting that Toner is the youngest of all of those 5 (or 6).

Tomtom364 · 01-10-2012 11:22pm

Tox56 wrote: »

I meant (and probably should have clarified) in what order, but if he continues his form from last season and starts H Cup regularly (big part of the equation) he should be right in the mix

It is also worth noting that Toner is the youngest of all of those 5 (or 6).

in order

POC
Ryan
Touhy
DOC
McCarthy

Podge_irl · 02-10-2012 12:56am

Tox56 wrote: »

I can see that happening, he started a lot of the games last year and this year there is no Brad Thorn, with Leo unlikely to last 80 minutes too often I'd like to see him as the one constant in there.

So would I. I just worry about a Toner/Cullen pairing lacking some grunt.

mogwai81 · 02-10-2012 1:17am

Podge_irl wrote: »

So would I. I just worry about a Toner/Cullen pairing lacking some grunt.

Fair point. Plus Toner's height seemed to really work against him in the Connacht game, with regards being
held up when tackled. Might work well with an ultra competitive player like Donnacha Ryan.

totallegend · 02-10-2012 9:26am

Toner will be first-choice for Leinster this season, something that he hasn't been previously (and there are very few Irish locks who would have been ahead of O'Kelly, Hines or Thorn, in Toner's defence). That should give him a decent platform to push for an Ireland spot; at the moment I would rank him fourth, behind POC, Ryan and Tuohy, although Kidney will have DOC and possibly McCarthy ahead of him.

He has been in great form so far this season and towards the end of last season, so hopefully he can continue and build on it.

phog · 02-10-2012 9:54pm

snip>

data updated and posted in #5100

Thanks to bilston for spotting the errors.

Clegg · 02-10-2012 10:42pm

Gert Smal and Les Kiss were at Munsters training session today. Probably checking the progress of players ahead of the AI's.

But whats interesting is that Laurie Fisher was with them. Now he may have just been there to visit his old team but its a bit strange that he was there at the same time as the Irish coaches.

If he's been given a job with Ireland then Kidney has lost his mind and our national team is as good as dead.

phog · 02-10-2012 10:46pm

Clegg wrote: »

Gert Smal and Les Kiss were at Munsters training session today. Probably checking the progress of players ahead of the AI's.

But whats interesting is that Laurie Fisher was with them. Now he may have just been there to visit his old team but its a bit strange that he was there at the same time as the Irish coaches.

If he's been given a job with Ireland then Kidney has lost his mind and our national team is as good as dead.

A guy visits his old team mates and the world is turned on it's head :rolleyes:

Clegg · 02-10-2012 10:49pm

phog wrote: »

A guy visits his old team mates and the world is turned on it's head :rolleyes:

I've already said he was probably there visiting his old club.

But the very thought of Fisher near the Irish set up fills me with dread.

phog · 02-10-2012 10:55pm

Clegg wrote: »

I've already said he was probably there visiting his old club.

But the very thought of Fisher near the Irish set up fills me with dread.

Yea but another poor soul may read your post as fact then we end up with a major rant over something that in all probability wont be happening.

jm08 · 03-10-2012 1:50am

Clegg wrote: »

Gert Smal and Les Kiss were at Munsters training session today. Probably checking the progress of players ahead of the AI's.

But whats interesting is that Laurie Fisher was with them. Now he may have just been there to visit his old team but its a bit strange that he was there at the same time as the Irish coaches.

If he's been given a job with Ireland then Kidney has lost his mind and our national team is as good as dead.

I think he is contracted to coach the heir to Richie's crown for the next while back in Australia. (He is the Brumbies Forward Coach).

You can relax - from his tweets:

Laurie Fisher ‏@LordLaurie58 Off to Ireland tomorrow. Looking forward to catching up with friends and having a close look at some rugby program's. #guinnessisgoodforyou

Interesting chat with Stephen Moore about the All-Ireland between Donegal & Mayo.

bilston · 03-10-2012 3:17pm

phog wrote: »

Wasn't sure where to post this as it's stats for both the league and and H/Cup. It excludes the Amlin Cup for Connacht but I have included Munster's two games in the Amlin.

Team Away Draw Home Draw Draw Away Loss Home Loss Loss Away Win Home Win Win Total
Connacht 2 7 9 90 51 141 11 45 56 206
Leinster 7 3 10 76 24 100 74 129 203 313
Munster 3 1 4 82 23 105 84 140 224 333
Ulster 5 4 9 93 18 111 52 106 158 278

I have listed the Loss/Win/Draw by Home or Away and then included the total for each result.
For knockout games in neutral venues I've listed the teams as "home or away" depending on how they were listed in the respective tournament website.

When does this go back to?

phog · 03-10-2012 3:33pm

bilston wrote: »

When does this go back to?

95/96 for H/cup and 01/02 for the league, it doesn't take into account any InterPros that were played outside of the Celtic League fixtures.

bilston · 03-10-2012 4:27pm

phog wrote: »

95/96 for H/cup and 01/02 for the league, it doesn't take into account any InterPros that were played outside of the Celtic League fixtures.

Interesting stats. Munster have only drawn 4 matches in the last 16 years!

I'm a bit surprised that Munster have played 55 more games since 95/96 than Ulster. I know Munster have made the knockout stages of the HEC and league more than Ulster have but even still 55 seems a lot!

phog · 03-10-2012 6:02pm

bilston wrote: »

Interesting stats. Munster have only drawn 4 matches in the last 16 years!

I'm a bit surprised that Munster have played 55 more games since 95/96 than Ulster. I know Munster have made the knockout stages of the HEC and league more than Ulster have but even still 55 seems a lot!

Yea, seems a big difference, I'll check the data later, maybe I've missed out on earlier H/C matches as the pools and rounds we listed differently on their site than they appear now.

I'll update later.

who_me · 03-10-2012 6:14pm

bilston wrote: »

Interesting stats. Munster have only drawn 4 matches in the last 16 years!

I'm a bit surprised that Munster have played 55 more games since 95/96 than Ulster. I know Munster have made the knockout stages of the HEC and league more than Ulster have but even still 55 seems a lot!

Yeah, does sound like a lot. Munster probably made (on average) 2 extra HEC games per season from '99 to '12 so that's about 28. Maybe a few more Celtic Cup ties or CL knockouts, but I doubt it was that many.

phog · 03-10-2012 9:54pm

Updated the stats.

I have listed the Loss/Win/Draw by Home or Away and then included the total for each result.
For knockout games in neutral venues I've listed the teams as "home or away" depending on how they were listed in the respective tournament website. These exclude Connacht's Amlin games but include their venture into H/cup, I've included Munster's two Amlin games.

Team Away Draw Home Draw Draw Total Away Loss Home Loss Loss total Away Win Home Win Win total Total
Connacht 2 7 9 90 51 141 11 45 56 206
Leinster 7 3 10 76 24 100 74 139 213 323
Munster 3 1 4 82 23 105 84 140 224 333
Ulster 5 4 9 97 41 138 52 107 159 306

This is a breakdown of games by competition and season for the 3 provinces.

Season Munster Amlin Munster H/C Munster League Leinster H/C Leinster League Ulster H/C Ulster League
95/96 2 3 2
96/97 4 4 4
97/98 6 6 6
98/99 7 6 9
99/00 10 6 6
00/01 8 6 6
01/02 9 9 7 10 6 9
02/03 8 10 8 7 6 9
03/04 8 22 6 22 6 22
04/05 7 20 7 20 6 20
05/06 9 20 8 20 6 20
06/07 7 20 7 20 6 20
07/08 9 18 6 18 6 18
08/09 8 18 9 18 6 18
09/10 1 8 19 8 20 6 18
10/11 1 6 24 9 24 7 23
11/12 7 23 9 24 9 22
12/13 5 5 4
Total 2 123 208 115 208 103 203

Lelantos · 05-10-2012 11:28am

Joe Schmidt has extended his Leinster contract, so no Irish job for him then!

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Comments