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Vote of no confidence.

  • 26-09-2007 10:33pm
    #1
    Deliverance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭


    Bertie is up for it by his own party (which he will win). I would like to see what the people on the ground think.

    confidence in Bertie. 134 votes

    No confidence, Bertie is doing damage in the long term.
    0% 0 votes
    Every confidence, Bertie is a great progressive leader.
    100% 134 votes


«1

Comments

  • #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    He should go. Way too many unresolved issues about his finances. Very dodgy.


  • #3
    Huggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭Huggles


    Deleted User wrote:
    He should go. Way too many unresolved issues about his finances. Very dodgy.

    Teflon Don. Dodgy as fúck! He will be fine though!!!!

    Grrrrr...

    What was it CJH said "The most cunning of them all..."


  • #4
    CitizenGeek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31 ✭CitizenGeek


    Deleted User wrote:
    He should go. Way too many unresolved issues about his finances. Very dodgy.

    I think I agree. Politics in Ireland are really flawed. Someone on Q&A on Monday made the point that if the UK PM was in Bertie's situation, he would have been gone a long time ago. It's a sad day when people 'settle' for dodgy finances in a PM.


  • #5
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    Bertie and the entire FF party are nothing more than a joke..

    Its embarrassing tbh..


  • #6
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    ill wait til the tribunal report before offering an opinion


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  • #7
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    81-76, it was tight all the same.
    All it would take is some FF backbenchers to switch sides and he'd have had lost.

    Who are we kidding, he'll never be forced to resign. It's our fault, most admire people for being a cute hoor


  • #8
    Karoma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,396 ✭✭✭✭Karoma


    I've seen this sort of crap getting nasty before, so I'll ask that you back up your point with something more than 'they is a juk lol' (Going forward). It doesn't have to be an in-depth discussion or reason...Just something. Please: no defamation- back up character assassinations and accusations with links.


  • #9
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    admiralofthefleet wrote:
    ill wait til the tribunal report before offering an opinion

    C'mon man, the tribunal is like an episode of father ted.. "that money was resting in my account", "I have no recollection of those events", "We didnt keep bank records back then"...

    Making a joke of the country and its people...i dont need to see a report to know bertie (and AIB) is full of ****..

    Edit: mod please delete if inappropriate..


  • #10
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    Orange69 wrote:
    C'mon man, the tribunal is like an episode of father ted.. "that money was resting in my account", "I have no recollection of those events", "We didnt keep bank records back then"...

    Making a joke of the country and its people...i dont need to see a report to know bertie (and AIB) is full of ****..

    well i would rather wait and see facts than believe what i read on rte or hear on the radio before offering an opinion.


  • #11
    constellation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭constellation


    CitizenGeek wrote:
    I think I agree. Politics in Ireland are really flawed. Someone on Q&A on Monday made the point that if the UK PM was in Bertie's situation, he would have been gone a long time ago. It's a sad day when people 'settle' for dodgy finances in a PM.

    You may recall the cash-for-honours affair.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4812822.stm
    Orange69 wrote:
    C'mon man, the tribunal is like an episode of father ted.. "that money was resting in my account", "I have no recollection of those events", "We didnt keep bank records back then"...

    Also known as the Gonzales defense - "I don't recall".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9wQjU5UWk


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  • #12
    Deliverance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭Deliverance


    admiralofthefleet wrote:
    well i would rather wait and see facts than believe what i read on rte or hear on the radio before offering an opinion.
    I would like to see the oposition parties have a go at him for a couple of months in the Dail. Then a no confidence vote should be cast. It is to early for them to do so at the moment as the trial is still ongoing. There is more to be revealed in the enquiry, a vote in his favour at the moment would work against proper justice being done as the gangster would use it in his favour, and his party members would sit back and keep on enjoying the rewards and slapping Bertie on the back for his clever dodginess.

    their loyaltly would wain with the possiblility of being involved with a dodgy leader exposed. Therefore a vote of no confidence would be more feasible.


  • #13
    johnnyrotten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭johnnyrotten


    That Sly Bast**d Enda Kenny makes me sick. He eased off Bertie before the General election for fear of a backlash by voters.


  • #14
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    Deliverance wrote:
    I would like to see the oposition parties have a go at him for a couple of months in the Dail. Then a no confidence vote should be cast. It is to early for them to do so at the moment as the trial is still ongoing. There is more to be revealed in the enquiry a vote in his favour at the moment would work against this in all respects.


    a vote of no confidence was defeated tonight by 81 votes to 76. i would now like to see the oposition shut up and let the government get on with what they were elected for. moaning at the government for a few months would be silly when hospitals, public transport, crime, housing etc.. are matters requiring urgent attention from the government


  • #15
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    admiralofthefleet wrote:
    well i would rather wait and see facts than believe what i read on rte or hear on the radio before offering an opinion.
    Read the transcripts from the Tribunal and you can have the facts (which are reproduced in most papers). You don't have to wait 2 years for the report, when the Taoiseach's testimony has already been heard.

    I personally am appalled at the Green party here.

    Check out this quote from Trevor Sargent in the months before the election:
    “We cannot allow cynicism about our democratic system to grow. Shame on you, Taoiseach, for undermining the people’s trust. Shame on you for bringing the office of Taoiseach into disrepute,” Mr Sargent said.

    “By anyone’s standards, including your own expressed standards, you should not be Taoiseach today. You have lost moral authority. What you have done is not right. It is unethical, improper, and not befitting of high office.”

    And he finished by calling for the Taoiseach to resign: “I give you your choices, Taoiseach: take positive action to clean up Irish politics. Do the decent thing and resign – or give the electorate the choice between your politics and mine.”
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=CWQLSNEYIDKF

    And now, for a junior ministry at the Department of Agriculture, he has completely betrayed that moralistic stance and voted that he has full confidence in that same person -- and this without a thing changing relating to the money he receieved that Sargent was calling for his resignation for; AND, with more damning revelations emerging from the tribunal, and the Taoiseach's testimony further contradicting his previous story.

    What a spineless scumbag. I'm ashamed that I gave them a preference at all.


  • #16
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Orange69 wrote:
    Bertie and the entire FF party are nothing more than a joke..

    Its embarrassing tbh..
    +1.
    All the Goverment need now is a spokesman like Chemical Ali to reassure us mere mortals that everything is fantastic.oh wait, Willie o' Dea did that in the sunday fianna fail independant 2 weeks ago.:mad:


  • #17
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    galwayrush wrote:
    +1.
    All the Goverment need now is a spokesman like Chemical Ali to reassure us mere mortals that everything is fantastic.oh wait, Willie o' Dea did that in the sunday fianna fail independant 2 weeks ago.:mad:

    Think you mean Comical Ali. Chemical Ali will be hanged next month
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Hassan_al-Majid


  • #18
    johnnyrotten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭johnnyrotten


    Orange69 wrote:
    Bertie and the entire FF party are nothing more than a joke..

    Its embarrassing tbh..


    Democracy is a wonderful thing. Shut up moaning. Let the tribunals end and stop lining the lawyers pockets and let this government get on with doing what they were elected for . End of!


  • #19
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    micmclo wrote:
    Think you mean Comical Ali. Chemical Ali will be hanged next month
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Hassan_al-Majid
    oops, you are correct,any chance of hanging this shower for crimes against reality?


  • #20
    henessjon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 377 ✭✭henessjon


    its not berties fault

    its the sheep that keep voting for him


    baaaaaaaa baaaaaaaaaa

    definitely cj clone


  • #21
    Deliverance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭Deliverance


    admiralofthefleet wrote:
    a vote of no confidence was defeated tonight by 81 votes to 76. i would now like to see the oposition shut up and let the government get on with what they were elected for. moaning at the government for a few months would be silly when hospitals, public transport, crime, housing etc.. are matters requiring urgent attention from the government
    Totally predictable. It was always going to be close in favour of Bertie. Now why did I know that? Because that was the way it was always going to go at this early stage. Now another vote on the same issue cannot be cast for months. Nice one Bertie, slipped the net again.

    Our ****ed up infrastructure and selling off of vital services to businesses will continue to screw us royally for the years to come, how many people are getting bills from the ESB threating cut offs? How many people are getting bills from crucial services like this? How many people have substandard broadband when across the water 16 millions have it as a standard? How many people are driving 07 cars on ****ty roads. Nice one Bertie at least you and yours will be ok when the **** hits the fan that is a given.


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  • #22
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    I think he should go, no trust in him


  • #23
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,351 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Clean house!


  • #24
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    henessjon wrote:
    its not berties fault

    its the sheep that keep voting for him


    baaaaaaaa baaaaaaaaaa

    definitely cj clone
    Thats really the problem though, isn't it. Most of the current people in power learned their trade at CJs knee, and they haven't forgotten the lessons he taught. You can lie as much and as big as you like, as long as you defiantly stand up and defend those lies. You have the mandate of the people, after all.

    You get this sort of thing in a lot of third world countries; people will vote for the strongest man they can find, even if he is robbing them blind, purely out of fear. And the fact of it is, at the time of CJH, Ireland wasn't too far off a third world country. So most of the establishment still has that mindset.

    As to why they voted in FF again, well FF sat at the helm of the tiger economy, the growth of the country's finances, even though they had little to do with the creation or maintenance of the tiger economy. To a great extent, this benefitted the older generation, those who already had land to sell. It is no coincidence that a) these are the people most likely to vote and b) they were the ones who originally voted in CJH.

    I'd like to see a new younger generation step up and take the reins, perhaps forming a new party with attitudes not rooted in that time. If they could motivate the younger electorate, they could make significant and immediate gains.

    In the coming troubled economic times, there might be a chance for change, as people begin to realise just how deep FF has left them in it.

    Chances are however, they'll just vote for the strongest man in sight. And he'll rob them blind.


  • #25
    Reku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Reku


    admiralofthefleet wrote:
    a vote of no confidence was defeated tonight by 81 votes to 76. i would now like to see the oposition shut up and let the government get on with what they were elected for. moaning at the government for a few months would be silly when hospitals, public transport, crime, housing etc.. are matters requiring urgent attention from the government
    No surprise really, FFS these people found out that he had been taking larger "donations" without declaring them than current legislation had allowed, so what did they do??? "Alright Bertie, me lad, we'll up that limit for you so in future you can take the money and be all hunky-dory".:mad:


  • #26
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    SimpleSam06 wrote:
    I'd like to see a new younger generation step up and take the reins, perhaps forming a new party with attitudes not rooted in that time. If they could motivate the younger electorate, they could make significant and immediate gains.

    Well, this is a democracy, there is absolutely NOTHING stopping YOU doing this.

    Or else do what everyone else does.

    Bleat on and on about how bad Bertie is, but at the end of the day, do sweet fa about it.

    If you want change, you make the change.

    Go on, set up your Young Ireland party, or whatever it is you want.

    See how many people in the 18-25 bracket you can motivate to vote for you.

    CARPE DIEM my friend, viva la revolution!


  • #27
    kev_s88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭kev_s88


    people knew of bertie being dodgy before the election.yet he still got voted in...surely that tells you something about how much people wanted bertie to stay in government!!! and in all fairness, its not like there is any one better out there to do the job.he may be corrupt as hell but that has'nt stopped him from doing a better job than most others would.


    so to all those who are opposed I say get over yourselves!! he is a good leader and he is the best we have.so we're going to have to make do!!!


  • #28
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    DesF wrote:
    Well, this is a democracy, there is absolutely NOTHING stopping YOU doing this.
    Meh, I'm already meddling with enough countries as it is. I limit my contributions in Ireland to an advisory capacity only.
    DesF wrote:
    CARPE DIEM my friend, viva la revolution!
    Indeed.


  • #29
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    SimpleSam06 wrote:
    Meh
    This simple three letter non-word sums up this whole country actually.

    - I hate the government already, I hate them a lot.

    Do something about it then

    - Meh, can't be arsed, but I'll type furiously on the internet about it, that'll show them.


  • #30
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    DesF wrote:
    - Meh, can't be arsed, but I'll type furiously on the internet about it, that'll show them.
    In fairness, there was nothing furious about what I typed. It was more melancholy than anything else. I wasn't trying to incite a revolution either, just responding to a poster who called most of the electorate sheep, and explaining who was voting and why they voted that way.

    What's your beef anyway, besides jumping into discussions other people are having and laying about you with your cutting wit?


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  • #31
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    SimpleSam06 wrote:
    In fairness, there was nothing furious about what I typed.
    You flatter yourself too much Sammy, I wasn't only directing my post at you. I apologise if it seemed that way.
    SimpleSam06 wrote:
    What's your beef anyway,
    I wouldn't exactly say I have a beef per se.

    I hate people who say the likes of "I hate the government blah blah blah, but there's no real alternative blah blah blah".

    They have to PROVIDE the alternative, what is stopping these idiots standing for election too? Forming their own real alternative party.

    If people genuinely want things to change, they need to take action, not just give out on Joe Duffy, Matt Cooper, George Hook, Boards.ie, TwentyMajor or whatever else.

    SimpleSam06 wrote:
    besides jumping into discussions other people are having and laying about you with your cutting wit?
    Seriously?

    This is a public message board.

    What's more, it's After Hours.

    If you want serious politics discussion, head on over to the Politics forum.


  • #32
    Heinrich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Heinrich


    admiralofthefleet wrote:
    ill wait til the tribunal report before offering an opinion

    Is that you Minister Gormley? Or is it Trevor?:D


  • #33
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    DesF wrote:
    Or else do what everyone else does.

    Bleat on and on about how bad Bertie is, but at the end of the day, do sweet fa about it.

    Or people can emigrate... which will become more and more predominant as bertie & co incompetently bumble their towards newer and more impressive cock ups..


  • #34
    Mossy Monk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    The voters in this country had their chance to get rid of him but no, the voted the crook back in again. Idiots.


  • #35
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    The voters in this country had their chance to get rid of him but no, the voted the crook back in again. Idiots.

    Couldnt have said it better myself.

    The fact the biggest selling sunday paper in Ireland is the tabloid crap Sunday World shows the level of intelligence in this country, no wonder they voted a crook back in.


  • #36
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    So because people didn't vote the way you wanted, they're idiots? Or are you just bitter?


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  • #37
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    Mossy Monk wrote:
    The voters in this country had their chance to get rid of him but no, the voted the crook back in again. Idiots.
    It's called democracy.

    It means people have a choice, every five years ao, to decide who governs them.

    You don't like the choice made, it doesn't make the people who made the choice idiots however.


  • #38
    Reku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Reku


    DesF wrote:
    It's called democracy.

    It means people have a choice, every five years ao, to decide who governs them.

    You don't like the choice made, it doesn't make the people who made the choice idiots however.
    Merely suckers who bought his snake oil. :p


  • #39
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    DesF wrote:
    You don't like the choice made, it doesn't make the people who made the choice idiots however.

    I disagree..

    Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve - George Bernard Shaw.

    One could argue that if there is a majority of idiots in a country then an incompetent and corrupt government is inevitable under a democratic system..


  • #40
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    If the majority are idiots, then what stopped the opposition from conning them into voting for their side?


  • #41
    someothername
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭someothername


    johnnyrotten wrote:
    That Sly Bast**d Enda Kenny makes me sick. He eased off Bertie before the General election for fear of a backlash by voters.
    +1
    your spot on about Kenny - but i think every person on the street can see that about him. FG may change if they want to deliver what they are promising......
    personally i hope they hold onto Kenny :D


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  • #42
    kevmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭kevmy


    constellation wrote:
    Also known as the Gonzales defense - "I don't recall".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9wQjU5UWk


    I'd love to see somebody use the Chewbaca Defence at the tribunal.
    http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=eH5EblIjkrk


  • #43
    Dr Pepper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Dr Pepper


    The problem with voters in this country is that so many of them treat political parties like Premiership football teams.. Who do you support?... FF - Hence FF get a large chunk of the vote to begin with and the result is not accurate/balanced. It really pi$$es me off!

    Another problem is when an alternative does take over and FF take their fingers out of the dam and run, that alternative will get the blame for the fallout and all of the FF supporters will be crying out to have their crooks back. The country has just had it's most prosperous period ever and services/infrastructure are in a shambles. That is not the successful leadership FF supporters would claim. It's a massive opportunity wasted!

    [/rant]


  • #44
    Bren1609
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭Bren1609


    johnnyrotten wrote:
    Democracy is a wonderful thing. Shut up moaning. Let the tribunals end and stop lining the lawyers pockets and let this government get on with doing what they were elected for . End of!

    Johnnyrotten wants us to keep quiet like little lambs and let FF do as they see fit.

    It's no mystery as to who johnnyrotten and admiralofthefleet are supporters of.


  • #45
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The result was a foregone conclusion , but what was amusing was the new FF junior minister, who is not the leader of the Greens , being one of the first out in defence.

    Mostly people have no more than a passing interest in politics. In the last election the incumbents were less unattractive than what was lined up against them. It is also understandable why the comments on Bertie's finances were dropped, the election would have been nothing but, and there's nothing like a negative campaign to generate sympathy and possible votes.

    With a new Dail in session the gloves are off. Expect more of the same in the times ahead.


  • #46
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    An ex-finance minister that can't seem to recall depositing several tens of thousands in cash into a bank, at a time when the country was supposedly on it's knees with respect to it's economy?
    <SNIPPED BY THE DEFAMATION PANDA> That alone means he should go.

    Haughey called this man devious....that's a <snipped> reference for his credibility with regards to his apparent corruption.

    Having Mahon shut down in the run up to the election, especially with what has transpired at the tribunal since, was nothing short of cynical and underhanded.

    He should be ousted and anyone else that's hanging on his coattails...


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,720 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    johnnyrotten wrote:
    That Sly Bast**d Enda Kenny makes me sick. He eased off Bertie before the General election for fear of a backlash by voters.

    Can you blame him? Going on the attack previously led to an increase in popularity for Ahern and his posse. What would you have done if you were looking to get into government, and a previous tactic failed? Would you repeat it?


  • #48
    Hitchhiker's Guide to...
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Hitchhiker's Guide to...


    People voted for Bertie 'warts and all' in the last election. I think the population are by-and-large quite intelligent in this regard. They weigh up the good and bad points and then make their decision.

    *Maybe* Enda is a purer leader than Bertie, but people decided that he was also less of a leader than Bertie.

    Sometimes it amazes me on this board that posters cannot allow for the fact that people have made a complicated decision, and thought through all the facts, rather than made a stupid decision.


  • #49
    Hitchhiker's Guide to...
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Hitchhiker's Guide to...


    Wertz wrote:
    Having Mahon shut down in the run up to the election, especially with what has transpired at the tribunal since, was nothing short of cynical and underhanded.

    legally the tribunals have to shut down before elections, i think, and this was agreed by all parties before tribunals were set up.


  • #50
    Bren1609
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭Bren1609


    Anyway, most people dont believe Bertie. It's such a cock and bull story. How are we supposed to believe that the then minister for finance had no back account? What did he do with his wages? Was he paid in cash? Did he go to the pub and cash it?


  • #51
    Red Alert
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,486 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    We were lame ducks for not putting him out last time - Reason? We can't get over ourselves that you can now divorce or whatnot quite freely. I think people weren't going to hammer him and the only real reason was his divorce. We should grow up - married, single, divorced, separated, he still was under obligation to wealthy people like michael wall.


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