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Murder hate crime (blacks kill whites)

1235»

Comments

  • #202
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Can you quote these posts as I am sure even if I made them you are taking them out of context.


  • #203
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Can you quote these posts as I am sure even if I made them you are taking them out of context.

    Here you mention the rise of the far right in France, and I think we know they're not exactly on the happy clappy bus
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88699059&postcount=236

    Here you refer to "race riots" in France
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88737263&postcount=257

    "ghettos" in France
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84798551&postcount=183

    Personally now, I think France could be a lot worse, but its far from perfect. However you seem to have been struck by some conversion on a road to Damascus with regard to the matter.


  • #204
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Yes, I mention race riots in France, I mention immigrant ghettos in France.. is there some kind of 'gottcha' here cause I am not seeing it.
    This still does not quell the FACT that the black american crime rate is higher than that in France which was my actual point but of course you are so desperate move the topic along in an effort to try quell any answer to questions I raised before hand. So unless you actually have a point to all this....

    Are you advocating race cataloguing in France, which will help race relations, if so how will this help race relations? Second time asking this.


  • #205
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Yes, I mention race riots in France, I mention immigrant ghettos in France.. is there some kind of 'gottcha' here cause I am not seeing it.
    This still does not quell the FACT that the black american crime rate is higher than that in France which was my actual point but of course you are so desperate move the topic along in an effort to try quell any answer to questions I raised before hand. So unless you actually have a point to all this....
    .

    Well, you advocated an approach that's been adopted in a country you already criticise.....

    America is famous for it's sparse social 'safety net' and has a higher level of violent crime overall. Add in the complicating factor of racism and there we are.
    jank wrote: »
    Are you advocating race cataloguing in France, which will help race relations, if so how will this help race relations? Second time asking this.

    A certain amount of "race cataloguing" would perhaps allow racism to the catalogued and thus tackled.


  • #206
    Sand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,612 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    creolebelle wrote: »
    *bangs head*

    You're going to wind up hurting yourself if that's your reaction when you see something you disagree with on the internet.
    The michael brown case is proof of excessive force used in low income black neighborhoods.

    Proof? The whole case hinges on if Wilson used excessive force or not. They are still collecting evidence on what exactly happened so they can determine if Wilsons decision to shoot Brown was excessive or reasonable. There's been no judgement yet to my knowledge, and its quite possible the finding will be that Wilson did not use excessive force.

    On the other hand, in the McDonalds case despite a (black female) witness testifying that she believed race was a motivation in the attack, and one of the killers introducing race as a motivation in his defence...it's ridiculous to consider it might have been a hate crime?
    It's a lot more complicated than white people being racist. It's about the deep rooted belief that black Americans are dangerous and violent which is present throughout this thread, I assume most the posters in here have had limited or no interaction with black Americans

    As Jank has pointed out, it is not about a belief. It is about evidence. Black people commit half the murders in the US despite being only 13% of the population. Young black men are 14 times more likely than a young white man to murder someone. Their targets are usually other black people. Indeed, the greatest threat to a young black male is not a white cop. It is another young black male. That's pretty bloody tragic.

    Now, I don't believe those stats are down to race. They reflect pervasive poverty, as well as gang and drug issues (which it might surprise you to find also happens to poor white people. Yes, even poor white people in Ireland) and black peoples over representation in such poor, troubled neighbourhoods. But that might explain why police seem to use excessive force in poor, violent neighbourhoods without needing to refer to race.
    It's ridiculous that you somehow feel like you know more about the ills of my country and community when you don't live in it and are not member of my community
    It's like me arguing with the members on here about being irish. It would be arrogant of me to do so... A high crime rate is seen in disenfranchised communities all over the world. .... Before the mass arrival of African Americans to Chicago it was the irish, Italians and Jews who were killing each other like flies: They were not part of mainstream american culture and lived in horrible conditions.
    . The same pattern that is present in Chicago today.

    On the one hand you say white people, especially white foreign people just don't understand disenfranchisement, crime or troubled communities. That we have no insight into it. I guess we don't have crime or troubled, disenfranchised communities.

    Then you go on and draw parallels between the high crime rate of black america and "disenfranchised communities all over the world" and the linked experience - and crime rate - of blacks, Irish, Italians and Jews in Chicago with the only unifying factor being they lived outside of the mainstream community in horrible conditions. As if you had insight into Irish, Italian or Jewish communities...let alone "disenfranchised communities all over the world".

    I think the reality is you find white people criticising your narrative patronising. If we agreed with you, it wouldn't be a problem insight or no insight.


  • #207
    Sand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,612 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Nodin wrote: »
    A certain amount of "race cataloguing" would perhaps allow racism to the catalogued and thus tackled.

    Has this approach solved racism...anywhere?


  • #208
    crockholm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    creolebelle wrote: »
    ^^ Before the mass arrival of African Americans to Chicago it was the irish, Italians and Jews who were killing each other like flies: They were not part of mainstream american culture and lived in horrible conditions.
    . The same pattern that is present in Chicago today.

    I disagree,between 1870-1930 there were approx 11,000 homicides in Chicago(which btw already had a solidly black Community in Englewood at the time of the 1919 race riots).All of this during a heyday of immigration,depression,prohibition that fuelled the White ethnic mobsters.

    During "Da Boss Jr." terms of office between 1989-2011 there were 14,500+ murders.

    When chicago's population was at it's highest(in the 1950s) there were still only on average about 300 murders p.a.with 900,000 more inhabitants than today, so to suggest like for like is not very accurate in this instance.


  • #209
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sand wrote: »
    Has this approach solved racism...anywhere?

    It seems to have lessened it in the States, as I have noticed something different about the current US president that distinguishes him from those who previously held the office. Indeed one can see African American scientists, Police, lawyers and so on. Considering the history of the US, they've made considerable progress to the end goal.


  • #210
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    crockholm wrote: »
    I disagree,between 1870-1930 there were approx 11,000 homicides in Chicago(which btw already had a solidly black Community in Englewood at the time of the 1919 race riots).All of this during a heyday of immigration,depression,prohibition that fuelled the White ethnic mobsters.

    During "Da Boss Jr." terms of office between 1989-2011 there were 14,500+ murders.

    When chicago's population was at it's highest(in the 1950s) there were still only on average about 300 murders p.a.with 900,000 more inhabitants than today, so to suggest like for like is not very accurate in this instance.

    In 1870 there were barely 300,000 people in Chicago. In addition, it's widely acknowledged that the spread of the drugs trade and hard drug use increased the level of violence in the US overall.


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  • #211
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    It seems to have lessened it in the States, as I have noticed something different about the current US president that distinguishes him from those who previously held the office. Indeed one can see African American scientists, Police, lawyers and so on. Considering the history of the US, they've made considerable progress to the end goal.

    Race 'cataloging' has had a direct effect in electing Obama and gave black scientists,black lawyers and black police officers jobs.... Oh jebus. There are NO black scientists, polices officers or lawyers in France?

    Indeed if the US is so much better at race relations than France why then are African Americans much more likely to end up on the receiving end of violence and being a perpetrator of violence, even when considering other minorities in the US. Seems as per usual you want to have that vegan gluten free chocolate brownie and eat it as well.


  • #212
    crockholm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    Nodin wrote: »
    In 1870 there were barely 300,000 people in Chicago. In addition, it's widely acknowledged that the spread of the drugs trade and hard drug use increased the level of violence in the US overall.

    And by 1930 there were 600,000 more chicagoans than there are today,whatever about other Points,I don't see any evidence of ethnic Whites dropping like flies-certainly not anything like murder rates among the AA Community from the late 1960s to the present day.

    I thought she used the phrase a Little disingenuously to make a Point.


  • #213
    Chickentown
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭Chickentown


    When a white person makes a racist comment against a black person the whole world steps up and takes notice.

    But when a black person makes a racist comment against a white person...nothing.

    Why is this?


  • #214
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    crockholm wrote: »
    And by 1930 there were 600,000 more chicagoans than there are today,whatever about other Points,I don't see any evidence of ethnic Whites dropping like flies-certainly not anything like murder rates among the AA Community from the late 1960s to the present day.

    I thought she used the phrase a Little disingenuously to make a Point.

    Because the position of "ethnic whites" (which the Irish, Italians and Jews weren't considered for a long time) had improved.


  • #215
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Race 'cataloging' has had a direct effect in electing Obama and gave black scientists,black lawyers and black police officers jobs.... Oh jebus. There are NO black scientists, polices officers or lawyers in France?
    .
    Not making a joined up argument there, are we? I haven't stated that about France, so why are you making a straw man out of it.
    jank wrote: »
    Indeed if the US is so much better at race relations than France why then are African Americans much more likely to end up on the receiving end of violence and being a perpetrator of violence, even when considering other minorities in the US. Seems as per usual you want to have that vegan gluten free chocolate brownie and eat it as well.

    "better" =/= racism free. You keep making these absurd statements, which aren't doing your case any good.


  • #216
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    Because the position of "ethnic whites" (which the Irish, Italians and Jews weren't considered for a long time) had improved.

    How were they improved? Did race cataloging help this? Did positive discrimination help. Or was it the usual story of immigrants?


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  • #217
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not making a joined up argument there, are we? I haven't stated that about France, so why are you making a straw man out of it.



    "better" =/= racism free. You keep making these absurd statements, which aren't doing your case any good.

    Sorry but the burden of proof is on you in this case. How and why does race cataloging help elect Obama and give black people in the US jobs? You offer no empirical evidence to back your point, just meaningless guff.


  • #218
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    How were they improved? Did race cataloging help this? Did positive discrimination help. Or was it the usual story of immigrants?


    If you can tell a second generation Irishman from an American, I bow to your psychic skills.
    jank wrote: »
    How and why does race cataloging help elect Obama and give black people in the US jobs? You offer no empirical evidence to back your point, just meaningless guff.

    You seem to be getting angry. This aids you not.

    You've never heard of positive discrimination? That I find hard to believe.


  • #219
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Chickentown wrote: »
    When a white person makes a racist comment against a black person the whole world steps up and takes notice.

    But when a black person makes a racist comment against a white person...nothing.

    Why is this?

    Because it doesnt have the same effect. White people are the ones in power. If I go to my bosses office and shout YOURE FIRED it doesnt have the same effect as if he were to do the same to me..because of positions of power.


  • #220
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    More uncomfortable truth:

    WOULD IT KILL YOU TO HIRE MORE BLACK COPS? (YES)


    As the story of Ferguson, Missouri, police officer Darren Wilson's shooting of Michael Brown begins to look less clear-cut than we were led to believe by Brown's friend, Dorian Johnson, the "voices of oppression" on MSNBC now say the real issue is that there aren't enough blacks on the Ferguson police force.


    As Brown may or may not have said seconds before his death: I give up.


    If the Ferguson police are forced to hire more minorities and women for the sake of diversity, the one thing we can be sure of is that more black people will be murdered, raped and assaulted.


    Someone's got to say it, so it might as well be me: I'm against more black people being murdered, raped and assaulted.


    In a massive, detailed 2000 study of the effect of court-ordered affirmative action plans on police departments, economist John Lott found that the more minorities on a police force, the higher the rates of murder, manslaughter, violent crime, robbery and aggravated assault will be. Violent crime increased by a minimum of 3.3 percent every year after affirmative action policies went into effect -- and the spike in crime was highest in black neighborhoods.

    http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-08-27.html#read_more


  • #221
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Because it doesnt have the same effect. White people are the ones in power. If I go to my bosses office and shout YOURE FIRED it doesnt have the same effect as if he were to do the same to me..because of positions of power.

    The most powerful man in America is black.


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  • #222
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Because it doesnt have the same effect. White people are the ones in power. If I go to my bosses office and shout YOURE FIRED it doesnt have the same effect as if he were to do the same to me..because of positions of power.

    So basically you only object to the effects of racism not the ideas they represent? And you assume all black people in America are powerless.


  • #223
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    More uncomfortable truth:




    http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-08-27.html#read_more

    Ann coulter....the voice of reason.....


  • #224
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Interesting:

    Lawsuit filed to unseal Brown's record.


    http://www.aol.com/article/2014/08/27/lawsuit-to-release-michael-browns-juvenile-criminal-record/20953546/


  • #225
    mphalo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭mphalo1


    RobYourBuilder wrote:
    The most powerful man in America is black.


    he's a puppet surrounded by white people pulling the strings as every president is ,they are far from the the most powerful


  • #226
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Nodin wrote: »
    Ann coulter....the voice of reason.....

    Is it Ann who troubles you so, or was it this bit?
    In a massive, detailed 2000 study of the effect of court-ordered affirmative action plans on police departments, economist John Lott found that the more minorities on a police force, the higher the rates of murder, manslaughter, violent crime, robbery and aggravated assault will be. Violent crime increased by a minimum of 3.3 percent every year after affirmative action policies went into effect -- and the spike in crime was highest in black neighborhoods.


  • #227
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Is it Ann who troubles you so, or was it this bit?


    Right wing crank quoting another right wing crank troubles me not at all.


  • #228
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Nodin wrote: »
    Right wing crank quoting another right wing crank troubles me not at all.

    lol.
    No surprise you're reduced to namecalling and the like as a desperate means of deflection from the message contained therein.


  • #229
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    If you can tell a second generation Irishman from an American, I bow to your psychic skills.


    You seem to be getting angry. This aids you not.

    You've never heard of positive discrimination? That I find hard to believe.

    Can you care to answer my question for the 3rd time of asking?


  • #230
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    lol.
    No surprise you're reduced to namecalling and the like as a desperate means of deflection from the message contained therein.

    Ann "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" Coulter -
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Coulter


  • #231
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Can you care to answer my question for the 3rd time of asking?

    I just told you - positive discrimination. You would not have a black president without having had African Americans assume roles in society beforehand, and you certainly aren't going to get that in a state that's just 50 years past segregation without positive discrimination.


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  • #232
    Jamiekelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭Jamiekelly


    This thread stinks of "I'm not racist but..."


  • #233
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Nodin wrote: »
    Ann "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" Coulter -
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Coulter

    Why are you repeatedly attacking the writer and posting irrelevant articles? :pac:

    Let's focus again on the bit that seems have prompted your panicked flailing about:
    In a massive, detailed 2000 study of the effect of court-ordered affirmative action plans on police departments, economist John Lott found that the more minorities on a police force, the higher the rates of murder, manslaughter, violent crime, robbery and aggravated assault will be. Violent crime increased by a minimum of 3.3 percent every year after affirmative action policies went into effect -- and the spike in crime was highest in black neighborhoods.

    I guess we can only speculate what it is about this piece of data that has you so flummoxed.


  • #234
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Jamiekelly wrote: »
    This thread stinks of "I'm not racist but..."

    Thanks for that valuable contribution to the thread.

    :rolleyes:


  • #235
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    The most powerful man in America is black.

    And Oprah Winfrey is what, the richest woman on earth? Im not sure but yeah
    OF COURSE there are exceptions. On the whole black people are more oppressed than white people in america and have less power/wealth and have a lower quality of life than the average white person


  • #236
    Hoop66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,451 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Why are you repeatedly attacking the writer and posting irrelevant articles? :pac:

    Let's focus again on the bit that seems have prompted your panicked flailing about:



    I guess we can only speculate what it is about this piece of data that has you so flummoxed.

    John Lott is a fucking buffoon, and his studies are completely flawed - he made up a "student" of his and had her praise his work online for fuck's sake.

    Amazing how his "studies" always point to: more guns = better or: black people = bad.


  • #237
    Jamiekelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭Jamiekelly


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Thanks for that valuable contribution to the thread.

    :rolleyes:

    You're more than welcome.


  • #238
    mphalo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭mphalo1


    thebannerboy wrote:
    I just read a very interesting article about a trial in America where two white people were beaten to death outside a McDonald's in Texas university. The story was not widely reported in the media, no idea why not when if two innocent black people were beaten to death by a group of whites. Now the blacks are out protesting about the killing of a so called 'harmless' black teen in Missouri. Oh the hypocrisy!


    because whites owe the blacks for the slavery years , so let them kill us whites if they want and do anything else they want too . we owe them so turn a blind eye like the rest of our weak race


  • #239
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    mphalo1 wrote: »
    because whites owe the blacks for the slavery years , so let them kill us whites if they want and do anything else they want too . we owe them so turn a blind eye like the rest of our weak race

    Are you on the jar this early in the day?


  • #240
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Hoop66 wrote: »
    John Lott is a fucking buffoon, and his studies are completely flawed - he made up a "student" of his and had her praise his work online for fuck's sake.

    Amazing how his "studies" always point to: more guns = better or: black people = bad.

    I see the well established tactic of name-calling continues :pac:


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  • #241
    Hoop66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,451 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    I see the well established tactic of name-calling continues :pac:

    I calls it as I sees it. Please, explain why he isn't a buffoon?

    Is it, perhaps, because his ludicrously flawed studies happen to back up your worldview?

    Can you accept that using someone as widely discredited as Lott to back up your position weakens said position?


  • #242
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Hoop66 wrote: »
    I calls it as I sees it. Please, explain why he isn't a buffoon?

    Is it, perhaps, because his ludicrously flawed studies happen to back up your worldview?

    Can you accept that using someone as widely discredited as Lott to back up your position weakens said position?

    Are you someone important, someone whose opinion I ought to be dazzled by?
    Don't be shy in the explaining now ;)

    I don't care who you consider a buffoon or not, it's how you (and others of your ilk) think name-calling is some kind of 'slam-dunk' tactic that amuses me.
    Nobel laureate Milton Friedman said that "John Lott has few equals as a perceptive analyst of controversial public policy issues."

    I guess there are some who don't share your view.....the horror!


  • #243
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    I just told you - positive discrimination. You would not have a black president without having had African Americans assume roles in society beforehand, and you certainly aren't going to get that in a state that's just 50 years past segregation without positive discrimination.

    Positive discrimination has largely been seen (rightly so) as a failure. Many states that favored it have now dropped it e.g. California.
    Conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, the only current black Justice, opposes affirmative action. He believes the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment forbids consideration of race, such as race-based affirmative action or preferential treatment. He also believes it creates "a cult of victimization" and implies blacks require "special treatment in order to succeed"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States#California

    Most proponents of affirmative action back in the day stated that it would take max 25 years for it to work, then the laws could be dropped. Well nearly 50 years later we still hear the 'well give it another 25 years.

    It still does not indicate proof that Obama would have not been elected (France has black lawyers right, black people in positions of power?). Of course even if you were right, then why such poverty and crime in black neighborhoods? Why since the 60's has the murder rate of blacks gone up, marriage breakups gone up, since positive discrimination? Perhaps not enough positive discrimination.:rolleyes:


  • #244
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Positive discrimination has largely been seen (rightly so) as a failure. Many states that favored it have now dropped it e.g. California.

    Well, given your libertarian ideology, you would say that.

    jank wrote: »

    It still does not indicate proof that Obama would have not been elected (France has black lawyers right, black people in positions of power?). Of course even if you were right, then why such poverty and crime in black neighborhoods? Why since the 60's has the murder rate of blacks gone up, marriage breakups gone up, since positive discrimination? Perhaps not enough positive discrimination.

    Has the murder rate overall gone up?

    Have marriage breakups overall gone up?


  • #245
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well, given your libertarian ideology, you would say that.


    Has the murder rate overall gone up?

    Have marriage breakups overall gone up?

    Yes.


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